What would make you become an associate member?
This is perfect. That is you have provided a little more insight into Rubén's thought on the matter.
From it we now know what our first goal/policy should be:
Problem to solve: People start projects, and then leave, abandoned, disorganised, and unmaintainable.
Proposed policy: Require at least three volunteers before translations can be started (or at least incorporated).
Proposed solution: start wiki; Record the languages of volunteers. Once we have three contact volunteers to verify participation.
Yes, i can understand that policy of the three volunteers. In the meantime what happens is that i seem to be hanging forever awaiting for those other two to come, while i could just might have translated everything by myself by now! Heck, i might even die before we get a Portuguese translation team together! :)
Picture this: i wait and wait and wait and when those other two finally come i pass away! And then those two will wait and wait and wait for the third one, and when he finally gets here those other two just might have gotten away! (I know... i do get carried away sometimes... but that just might not be too far from the truth!)
I think the idea is if we can't reliably translated it and continue to do so it shouldn't be translated. If we translated and couldn't keep it up to date then people who might otherwise use the English version might get confused. Not to mention it is a professionalism issue. Some minimal quality control isn't necessarily a bad thing. You are right though.
Maybe what you can do is focus on finding other Portuguse to 'convert'. :) check out conferences and other technical events. Maybe write a speech or two on the distribution. Get the people in Portugal to understand the problem (absence of freedom). I'm sure there are other GNU/Linux user groups too you could probably check out. They may be hostile or they may be not. But if you find some locals to get involved who speak English/Spanish/etc then we can move forward with a Portuguse translation.
I have updated the proposal page you created Chris. I added the idea that if a user was able to demonstrate a serious commitment to the project and translate a significant portion of the website we may want to consider adding the language in even if they don't have 3 volunteers. For example, if a user translated all the front page articles and a decent number of wiki pages and they have a decent history with the project we may want to consider them anyways.
You can also make translations of articles while you're waiting other people, just save it in files on your pc... I think that this will help the future translation..
Would be better if the unfinished/sanctioned translations could be stored on the website rather. This way they would be most unlikely lost. Dunno whether that's already possible or perhaps somehow difficult to pull off.
Chris asked: For those who are not members what is holding you back?
I would like to see a non-PayPal option.
I think in general paypal is not a terribly loved solution. I don't have a good answer to this although if you absolutely can't use paypal we can forward donations (libre.thinkpenguin.com and use the about -> contact page) as long as you have a valid credit card that we can charge. Keep in mind this would reduce the funds received a little as it gets 'taxed' by corporations twice. Once we charge your card and once when it is forwarded to the Trisquel project. If it is your only option though I'd still encourage you to contact us. When I find the time to talk to Rubén maybe we can fix this some better way. Maybe someone can investigate http://pledgie.com/site/about and find out if it works well internationally, how Trisquel would get those funds, and what the costs are. It may be a good solution to the paypal concern.
It takes time to implement these little features though. If you can look into it though and summarise it on the http://pledgie.com/site/about I think we could probably implement this fairly easy.
I've been extremely busy the last few days. If it wasn't for the fact it is costly to add people to the payroll I'd have more time to do little things like this. I think we are getting to that point though I'll get another person to help with US shipping operations. It's also partly a time factor. I have to investigate the options.
Just managing things is a full time job and something I don't mind doing- except it requires money as other people generally don't want to work for free. And those which do are inconsistent/unreliable (understandably so of course).
I suppose you can avoid the transaction charges by working in bitcoins?
I think the FSF accepts bitcoin donations. At some point, they have
to be converted to cash; this is mysterious to me.
> a good answer to this although if you absolutely can't use paypal we can
> forward donations (libre.thinkpenguin.com and use the about -> contact
> page) as long as you have a valid credit card that we can charge. Keep
> in mind this would reduce the funds received a little as it gets 'taxed'
> by corporations twice. Once we charge your card and once when it is
> forwarded to the Trisquel project. If it is your only option though I'd
> still encourage you to contact us. When I find the time to talk to Rubén
> maybe we can fix this some better way. Maybe someone can investigate
> http://pledgie.com/site/about and find out if it works well
> internationally, how Trisquel would get those funds, and what the costs
> are. It may be a good solution to the paypal concern.
> It takes time to implement these little features though. If you can look
> into it though and summarise it on the http://pledgie.com/site/about I
> think we could probably implement this fairly easy.
> I've been extremely busy the last few days. If it wasn't for the fact it
> is costly to add people to the payroll I'd have more time to do little
> things like this. I think we are getting to that point though I'll get
> another person to help with US shipping operations. It's also partly a
> time factor. I have to investigate the options.
> Just managing things is a full time job and something I don't mind
> doing- except it requires money as other people generally don't want to
> work for free. And those which do are inconsistent/unreliable
> (understandably so of course).
I've looked at the German translations on the main page and they pretty much suck. They are stiff and full of small mistakes. I understand that it is somewhat dangerous to let people with unknown qualification translate things, but I'm perfectly qualified to do this kind of job and I'm sitting here, doing nothing, because no one ever gets back to me.
Where can I actually reach Ruben? I've tried to volunteer over the contact form on this forum two or three times already, without any feedback.
> much suck. They are stiff and full of small mistakes. I understand that
> it is somewhat dangerous to let people with unknown qualification
> translate things, but I'm perfectly qualified to do this kind of job and
> I'm sitting here, doing nothing, because no one ever gets back to me.
> Where can I actually reach Ruben? I've tried to volunteer over the
> contact form on this forum two or three times already, without any
The translations page is here
If you need help try quidam on #trisquel freenode irc. As per this page
My advice FWIW is to use XChat, the second set up on that page. Ruben
(quidam) uses his away status and you can see if he is available with
XChat by when his name isn't in light grey.
Leny / Andrew
With computer technology we're building a world where Orwell's 1984
could be a childhood fantasy akin to Santa Claus. What makes you
think software without ethics is tenable?
That's kind of bad, if he is only reachable over IRC. I don't have Internet at home atm and what I can use well from work are emails. I'll contact him right when those idiots can turn my DSL signal on.
> Internet at home atm and what I can use well from work are emails. I'll
> contact him right when those idiots can turn my DSL signal on.
You have been given translator rights. I left quidam a message in IRC on
Friday or maybe he read your email. Either way, you can start
adding/fixing translations now. If you need any help, look at the wiki
page (https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/website-translations). It is still a
work-in-progress, so if you have any questions send it to the
translators mailing list
Otherwise, if you get your internet fixed, you can also ask me on IRC.
Thanks a lot for contacting quidam on my behalf! Already translated some stuff on the mainpage, including the release announcement.
I've wanted to become a member for a while as I am in full support of what Trisquel is and what it represents. I've been donating money when I can and tried to become a member twice. The problem I had was to become a member I had to go through the Paypal system and I no longer have an account with them. Is there another solution where I can just provide my credit card number and have your organization bill my card. I would also be interested in paying a monthly service amount to support the development of this operating system. Any suggestions welcome.
http://libre.thinkpenguin.com/ about -> contact us and we can forward a donation... but this is not a permanent solution. It would be best if you had a larger amount rather than small monthly amounts until this was more permanently fixed. I added some proposed solutions to the wiki so maybe it'll be solved sooner rather than later.
Thanks for the info. I plan on becoming a member this Friday once I get my paycheck for the week. Also if I use the method you added will that make me a member or just send a donation?
A one time amount is considered a donation. A reoccurring amount is a membership. I think Rubén manually adds memberships as he has had to "clean out" and add to the list.
I would like to help Trisquel in the little time I have. I'm not a coder or developer. I know only xhtml, CSS and I can edit wiki. I'm also a member (next year I can give double amount if the job go right) but I don't see the member's badge :-)
Can you add yourself to the Community volunteers section at the bottom of the wiki:
Just a description of what you can do, time, any limitations, etc. read the other descriptions for an example. Keep it short. Thanks
I would like to help Trisquel in the little time I have. I'm not a coder or developer. I know only xhtml, CSS and I can edit wiki. I'm also a member (next year I can give double amount if the job go right) but I don't see the member's badge :-)
One last thing to all those who are looking to volunteer. While I have no authority with the Trisquel project (that's all Rubén) I do have authority with ThinkPenguin (for those who aren't aware- I'm the CEO) and we are looking for a person to work on the web site. It's a paying gig that would absolutely benefit the Trisquel project.
Filling this "position" benefits the Trisquel project (indirectly):
1. Freeing my time means we can move forward faster on other projects (like getting chipsets supported, getting compatible hardware manufactured, etc), improving availability of compatible hardware in places that may be more challenging (countries in Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and elsewhere), and organising/managing various little things (boring work, but it's not that bad) etc
2. If you have the time and not the money/skills/job this is a perfect opportunity to make money and pick up the skills needed to work in the Free Software world (Free Software Foundation, Trisquel, and others).
You can now become a donating member as well because you'll have a little extra spending money!
What we would probably do is setup a "learning environment". It might just start out with learning how to setup the infrastructure (can be done remotely), setup Drupal, upgrade Drupal, installing modules, and various pieces that go into running a web site. Then moving onto Ubercart (shopping cart software), tweaking, coding, etc.
This isn't really a small job. While we could probably use a full time person it isn't realistic financially (yet). It would probably be a while before one had the skills needed to really move us forward too if you are just learning PHP/Drupal/etc. It would probably be better for someone young and in school with at least 20 hours a week free.
If there are paying gigs on Trisquel, then it would attract more help from developers.
Well of course if we had paying gigs we could attract some devs. The problem is we don't have enough money to pay anyone. The goal of this thread is about how to the project can raise more funds (primarily through associate membership).
We can't have paying gigs though if we don't have $$ for it.
You can, if you want to.
You dont always need to pay in $$.
Pay something of importance from developer's point of view.
Acknowledgement, Advertisement of developer's blog, ...etc
btw, you can relay part of donations to contributors.( it can be based on tasks accomplished over period of time, or even like a bounty)
Developers are being paid to write free code. In fact most free software is written by paid developers. The problem is there needs to be more money going to free software developers. More today (by becoming a Trisquel associate member for instance) would speed up the development because people like Rubén wouldn't have to take on a 2nd job to make ends meet. Most projects aren't getting anywhere near what they should be. The developers of desktop applications in particular are frequently working on less than minimum wage. This has to change. It will change. The question is how long is it going to take us to get there.
Right now we have proven at least one entirely free software business model. I've seen others work though (companies that are no longer around for unrelated reasons) that were not so freedom friendly although deviations could be.
I think we need to push more users to become associate members though. It's a good cause and it can probably prove you don't need monopolies to fund software development. I can't think of any free software projects that really get in your face about becoming a sponsor or member.
If you look at other non-profit organisations many have annual drives where all work stops just to encourage contributions.
That might be an idea worth considering. Every six months (each new Trisquel release) we could put on the table a number. That would be our goal for that release in terms of the amount of money we wanted/needed to raise to fund development. If the goal was reached before a particular release date we would get the new version of Trisquel on time (provided there wasn't anything else holding up the release). If the goal was NOT met by the release date then Trisquel would be delayed until the goal was reached or if never reached a month after the scheduled release date.
keep pushing users to shell out money for free software and you will end up something like elive.
Well, do you have any other ideas for how we can make money?
Besides, we aren't charging people to use Trisquel. And even if we were, there wouldn't be anything wrong with that. Selling free software is okay.
you want ideas for making money? lol, i thought trisquel team required contributors(dev/non-dev)
I never said you cannot sell free software. It was a reply on the Chris's strategy.
If I recall correctly elive was too aggressive. What I've suggested is an incentive based system. Nobody is losing out. It's simply taking advantage of the desire to have things yesterday.
Well I just purchased a graphics card from Think Penguin (Thanks for making this kind of completely free hardware available) and was thinking about doing the member option but cancelled as it did not allow me to input an amount. I hope that there will be a way to resolve this membership issue soon. I will begin investigating possible solutions myself come next week when I have more free time. There has got to be something to help with this problem. As a member I just want some system that will allow for my credit card to have a recurring charge for the membership fee. Is there any free software that does this?
I am going to be very honest. I would love to became a member and contribute. Even knowing that I'm still learning and I don't know much about low level (mostly hardware) programming (like drivers etc..), I think that I could help a lot, since I have a lot of motivation, and a lot of free time for what I love and believe :D
The real problem is that I have switched from Ubuntu to Arch Linux for the same reasons that I will mostly switch from Trisquel to Parabola. And those reasons are :
1 - I want to have an updated System without doing almost anything to update it :S The packages don't need to be on the second, but using the kernel 3.0 when even Ubuntu is using the kernel 3.2 (or 3.5 in October) can be a little bit frustrating for my eyes. I know that I could help with packaging and turn this beautiful Distribution into something more often updated, but isn't this against the "Always Stable" idea behind the Ubuntu/Debian and Trisquel mind ?
2 - I only want to have 1 Distribution installed on my computer. Because I know that I won't use the other at all for a long time :S...
3 - I really hate apt-get and aptitude :S... Almost the same as I hate the organization behind the Debian/Ubuntu packages, like the need to have OpenJDK6 installed in order to have OpenJDK7 and other problems that are in relation with packages and dependencies.
And more that I forget...
So please don't take this as offensive, like if I was saying that Trisquel is not good (this is not what I intended, I am right know using it since yesterday, and to be honest, if I had to choose between any Ubuntu/Debian based distributions, I will choose without thinking twice this distribution).
But since I probably won't use this everyday now that I've found that a Free Software Distribution based on Arch Linux exists, I can't just offer my help for something that I would not use everyday, that would be unfair for everyone, and I have already the fear of not being at the level of this awesome community, that adding this problem could be very bad for me.
This is why I donated 1€ (it is all I have on my bank account for now, but it is better than nothing, since you people deserve better this money then all the companies that I have already give money to (like Microsoft for example))...
And this is why I cannot become an Associate Member, because it would be unfair for everyone.
I hope everyone understand.
Luis Da Costa
> contribute. Even knowing that I'm still learning and I don't know much
> about low level (mostly hardware) programming (like drivers etc..), I
> think that I could help a lot, since I have a lot of motivation, and a
> lot of free time for what I love and believe :D
Not many people here know low level programming, or they just don't
tell. There are many other ways for motivated people with free time to
> update it :S The packages don't need to be on the second, but using
> the kernel 3.0 when even Ubuntu is using the kernel 3.2 (or 3.5 in
> October) can be a little bit frustrating for my eyes. I know that I
> could help with packaging and turn this beautiful Distribution into
> something more often updated, but isn't this against the "Always
> Stable" idea behind the Ubuntu/Debian and Trisquel mind ?
The main developer supports this stability, something similar was
> computer. Because I know that I won't use the other at all for a long
> time :S...
Virtual machines avoid some problems of dual booting.
> a Free Software Distribution based on Arch Linux exists, I can't just
> offer my help for something that I would not use everyday, that would
> be unfair for everyone, and I have already the fear of not being at
> the level of this awesome community, that adding this problem could be
> very bad for me.
I don't understand how it would be unfair, maybe since I usually don't
use Trisquel. (There are more Parabola users active here than on
Hi Michał Masłowski,
I think that it would be unfair because I just can't imagine myself packaging or maintaining something that I wouldn't test in real life with a real machine (supposing that I would use a Virtual Machine). This is why I proposed my help on the Arch Linux forums, since it is something that I use daily (even knowing that I have a hard time going back to Arch Linux from my Trisquel installation.... I really found this little distribution very beautiful, stable and fast :D Even knowing that I'm a huge fan of KDE now, but this personalised Gnome Classic DE is just beautiful.... I didn't find one single bug at the moment :D).
I can think about the idea, but I still think that if I won't going to use it daily, then it would be unfair for people that would wait excellent support from the community just that (it is not a definitively no... just a "for now it is not the best idea for me and for the community).
> use it daily, then it would be unfair for people that would wait
> excellent support from the community just that (it is not a
> definitively no... just a "for now it is not the best idea for me and
> for the community).
So this is what is "unfair". I was thinking that not using something
daily I wouldn't know what needs improving there or have enough
motivation to do it. (I started contributing to GNU Recutils before
Commenting on your enumerated arguments:
1. Isn't it just psychological? Most people want new and shiny things just because it is new and shiny, even if functionality is the same. I use Trisquel because it works and has been long working. I had Parabola on this laptop before but with the switch to systemd (I think it was because of that) wireless was not functional anymore. I could not get it working again and reinstalled Trisquel back. Parabola also has a bug in installation that makes initcpio fail (at least for me) so you have to reboot to a live cd and chroot it and do it manually. By the way, my brother still uses Ubuntu 9.04 today just because it works even if it is long dead.
2. I can understand this one as I feel the same. I like to keep a clean and concise partition table.
3. Pacman is not *that* different from a managing perspective. I like the -Rs switch which I did not find an alternative in apt, and the ability to see packages installed by pacman -U separately of those from the repository. I don't think it's worth a switch because of that though.
1 - Yes a lot xD... Well not at 100%... for example I have a netbook with Nvidia Optimus, and the support has been added to the 3.5 kernel (not completely but it is still more supported then every other kernel), the 3.6 kernel will solve the acpi battery problem that uses more energy on Intel than other OS. Then you have the mesa drivers (9.1 to be more specific) that support OpenGL 3.1. And for the Software I can think about Netbeans, Eclipse and even Gimp, software that I use a lot and that I need always the last version to be at the same level as my friends workers to share projects without corrupting them (for Netbeans and Eclipse mostly, Gimp is just because I prefer the one-window option). This is my only problem xD If gcc is outdated for example is a no-problem for me :D But this is something that I've already complained in Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora etc..., that if they propose Software (I am only talking about software and not about Kernel, Drivers etc...), in the Repositories then they should update them a little bit more :S... Because having the latest kernel but a Netbeans old from 3 years can be very bad zs. If trisquel could be more updated just in the most used software that could be awesome, and I would help with all the time I have and all the time that I don't have to make this a reality :D
2 - I prefer to have a single Hard Drive with GPT and 3 Partigions (Bios Partition, Swap, Gnu/Linux), I really hate to see Grub asking me what OS to use xD But it is really not a big problem, my biggest problem is to have 2 OS's knowing that I will only use 1 of the 2 (like know that I'm only using Trisquel and haven't login-in to Arch Linux since Yesterday).
3 - I like pacman because it is easier to understand, and I don't have to remember what to write in order to install or make a search, example :
apt-get install = pacman -S
apt-cache search = pacman -Ss
This is the same reason that I like yum :
apt-get install = pacman -S = yum install
apt-cache search = pacman -Ss = yum search
But that is just my Opinion :D
> with Nvidia Optimus, and the support has been added to the 3.5 kernel
> (not completely but it is still more supported then every other kernel),
> the 3.6 kernel will solve the acpi battery problem that uses more energy
> on Intel than other OS.
Have a look at jxself's up-to-date pre-compiled Linux libre kernels:
The latest version is 3.5.4.
I've been using those kernels with Trisquel for most of this year. The
only issue I had was with some AppArmor things complaining. But besides
that I've had no problems and it got my laptop's nVidia card to no
longer corrupt during the Plymouth boot animation.
Thanks :D I will try it !
> apt-cache search = pacman -Ss = yum search
Or "aptitude install" and "aptitude search".
We install or help people install newer kernels regularly. It's rarely an issue. Even where an issue does exist you can select to boot an older kernel.
Here are the directions for installing a newer linux-libre kernel in Trisquel and other Debian/Ubuntu derived distributions:
Now I wouldn't recommend installing packages from Debian/Ubuntu under normal circumstances as you might risk breaking the system and there are ethical issues. If it is something that isn't packaged for Debian/Ubuntu then it might be OK to install.
If I understood you right the main problem is a lack of funds. Which project you contribute to matters less than that you are contributing.
Join the free software foundation, make a contribution to the lightspark project, or the free version of the distribution you use.
There are also other projects like OpenShot and similar which could use funding. The developer isn't even making minimum wage.
I would love at least (since I don't have money for donations), to contribute by packaging and testing (at least) Gimp 2.8 to make it on the current repositories (or the next ones if a new release is going to be out soon) and this if nobody is already working on something similar.
PS: It is just a feeling or this is the most active community for Free Software Distributions ? (even the website of Parabola is out and this since the 15 September... but they don't have a lot of problems since it uses the same repositories as Arch Linux)
Trisquel is probably the most active all around distribution. Both from a community perspective and a development perspective. It's easy to use and based on a solid well patched distribution (Ubuntu minus the non-free parts). There are a lot of non-Trisquel users here as well. Mostly those on other free distributions. This distribution is about freedom. It is not about the latest and greatest or some particular must have feature. This is something that has been missed in some of the past reviews (particularly one recent one on the "Linux Action Show").
You are right. And to be honest I have a real problem switching again to Arch and don't know why xD I feel like at home :D And that is the most amazing I've ever feeling in software for years :D
But I still hate PPA's xD And I really feel that some software need to me "more" updated, like for example Gnash and/or lightspark, because every patch, every update is important in order to help users stop using flashplugin (I can only remember of this one for know... maybe LibreOffice but that's not as important).
I just think that Ubuntu and Debian have a weird package organization (it is my point of view after using Arch Linux), too many packages just for a little file in difference, and because of that repairing something could be hard (but once again maybe it is just me :S..).
This beautiful distribution and community made me think twice about this question... I think that I would be glad to contribute to Trisquel :D
Those are my skills :
--> Coding (PS: I don't mind to learn anything else useful) <--
What I understand very well :<\u>
Java (AWT, SWING, JavaFX, Dalvik, Java2D)
C# (GTK#, Windows Forms)
ASP.Net (not very useful but still xD)
Microsoft SQL Server
Arch Linux Packaging
What I understand a bit :
--> Design <--
A little bit of Gimp but I'm not very good at it to be honest.
Video Edition (I'm training :D)
Audio Edition (I'm not bad at all in my Opinion)
--> Translation <--
- Portuguese (Portugal)
- French (France)
- English (USA)
--> Others <--
I can test Trisquel in 5 computers (4 laptops and 1 Desktop) all sort (netbook, "gaming" netbook, medium notebook, "high-end" notebook, "gaming" desktop).
Documentation (maybe some grammatical errors but that can be solved with time)
Donation (when the money allows me to)
Can learn everything since I'm very interested in technology in general.
Have a lot of ideas (my ideas are mostly used a few months later by enterprises like google and I finish mostly laughing to not taking action before xD)
Big Retro-Gamer (I know this isn't a skill at all but I really love it :D)
Hope I can be useful (PS: I will be adding if I remember anything else).