Purism working on libre phone

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martinh
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Joined: 02/21/2014

Not sure whether this has been posted about, sorry.

[quote]

Librem 5, the phone that focuses on security by design and privacy protection by default. Running Free/Libre and Open Source software and a GNU+Linux Operating System designed to create an open development utopia, rather than the walled gardens from all other phone providers.

The Librem 5 phone will be the world's first ever IP-native mobile handset, using end-to-end encrypted decentralized communication.
[/quote]

link: https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Thoughts ?

Soon.to.be.Free
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Joined: 07/03/2016

*Todd :)

You're absolutely right, Heather. Unfortunately, the track record of the corporation isn't promising.

Please, Purism, consider the modem isolation/management and processor freedom of your phone. The battle for libre, trustworthy portable telephony device has been long and hard, and to cut corners in order to release something cheaper and sooner would be a *huge* slap in the face to those projects which are trying to do it properly.

hack and hack
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"Yeah, but it's kinda lucrative." -- Purism, probably.

Magic Banana

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From testing the CPU, GPU, Bootloader and all software will run free software, we are evaluating the WiFi and Bluetooth chips and firmware, this is an area we have to evaluate, finalize, and test. The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware, but a free software kernel driver. We intend to invest time and money toward freeing any non-free firmware.
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

I do not buy their "intentions" (last sentence), given the past experience. The Librem 5 would be the third best choice from a freedom perspective. After 1) not carrying a tracking device (my choice), 2) Replicant phones (those sold by Technoethical have Wifi support, but not Bluetooth, neither GPS although I am not certain the Librem 5 will have it without additional proprietary software). Like Replicant phones, the Librem 5 will have proprietary software running on the broadband chip, the master chip. That proprietary software that may include malware: the security and privacy promises (that https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ repeats again and again) cannot be honestly made.

CalmStorm

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To those who are on the Devuan mailing list this will sound so familiar... but...

this is my response to everything "Purism" as in the company...

Gee, I thought purism was a trustworthy company, I mean they claim you
can get the latest and the greatest without intel me in it and also they
claim that they can sprinkle magic fairy dust on all the hardware so
that you can use it all without any blobs or firmware that is
proprietary... even when the drivers are signed with the most powerful crypto key they can get their hands on! Doesn't that sound just plain trustworthy? Can you
honestly say that they cannot be trusted?

And moreover, they claim to do what even libreboot and coreboot cannot
do. or replicant for that matter Wow I guess if you believe in magic, anything can happen...

:)

onpon4
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Joined: 05/30/2012

I wrote my comment on this here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freesoftware/comments/6vr06u/gnulinux_based_phone_purism_5/dm2x2h2/

I decided to erase this from the comment because I don't want to give Purism ammunition to claim victim status, but I also noticed something odd: the supposed "funds raised" are $30,000 larger than all the supposed contributions added up. Take a look:

https://archive.is/X70Zq

ADFENO
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Joined: 12/31/2012

The current modem-related regulations are bad for free/libre software
indeed. :(

Just a note about Garrett:

He also presented the difference between Secure Boot vs. Restricted
Boot ([1]). And it's not about being able to disable it, and not about
having a "legacy" mode. :)

Of course, I do agree with you in that an involvement of someone in a
project doesn't mean he'll guarantee that things will go as expected,
and in for-profits it doesn't guarantee that he'll be given enough
importance in the decision making.

Also, as a note: Garrett's blog and website seem to force the user to
use non-free JS. :)

[1]

--
- https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre. Por favor, use o GNU Ring ou o Tox.
- Contato: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno#vCard
- Arquivos comuns aceitos (apenas sem DRM): Corel Draw, Microsoft
Office, MP3, MP4, WMA, WMV.
- Arquivos comuns aceitos e enviados: CSV, GNU Dia, GNU Emacs Org, GNU
GIMP, Inkscape SVG, JPG, LibreOffice (padrão ODF), OGG, OPUS, PDF
(apenas sem DRM), PNG, TXT, WEBM.

CalmStorm

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Yep, why are you surprised, they clearly are full of hot air.

among other bad things... lies for example ;P

1111aether
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Joined: 12/27/2012

That response implies she was talking to TodD (whoever the hell is). She was talking to me. I stopped talking to you lot years ago over a different issue but I just thought I'd mention the truth untwisted because I'm still very offended at someone telling me where I can spend my very hard earned money. It's very offensive. Are ya..are ya...nope you're not going to consider that are ya?... Right, on second thought, please excuse my interruption of the circle jerk. Plastics.

chaosmonk

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I am a translator!

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Of course you have the right to spend your money as you choose, whether it's on a Purism laptop or some oceanfront property in Colorado. Your right to do something is a separate debate from whether or not it is a good idea.

onpon4
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Todd is the guy heading Purism. Todd Weaver. If you're going to be a fanboy of Purism (a foolish decision), you should probably know who it is you're a fanboy of.

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't recognize you and haven't a clue who you are (nor do I care). It would be good for your health to drop the persecution complex.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Hello everyone,

The more you debate about Purism products, the more publicity they get.

There is likely no difference between this phone and the generic products you get from samsung, sony, xiaomi, etc, aside from the operating system. Even Replicant phones still have non-free boot firmware in them, and this is true of all Replicant-preinstalled phone suppliers.

Wifi, 3D acceleration and bootloaders / firmware are all very difficult to liberate on mobile phones. Just look at the Replicant project to see how hard it is. Then there is the issue of the modem (baseband processor) having access to main CPU and RAM (and the modem's firmware is often updateable by the telecoms provider).

If you don't like Purism, then stop talking about it or making threads on forums about it. Purism's ability to raise awareness of itself is based on people like you discussing it.

So my advice would be to stop talking about them.

Just my 2 cents.

~Leah

PS: fun fact: Purism doesn't mention Replicant at all on its announcements. Or at least as far as I can tell, it doesn't.

If they were serious, they'd port Replicant to their device.

Of course, I'm sure they'll take this as advice and announce "Replicant coming soon" on their marketing ;)

libreleah
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Public service announcement:

Go here for fully free phone OS:
https://www.replicant.us/

Replicant has FSF endorsement.

And go here for a (much cheaper) phone that is actually in fact libre (more libre than purism's phone):

https://tehnoetic.com/tet-n2
https://tehnoetic.com/tehnoetic-s3-phone-replicant
https://tehnoetic.com/tehnoetic-s2-phone-replicant

Any one of those should suit the needs of most people. That company also donates part of its profits back to Replicant and the FSF.

onpon4
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> So my advice would be to stop talking about them.

I half agree with this.

I agree it's a bad idea to bring up Purism's activities.

However, if it's already been brought up, especially on a forum or other channel about libre software, and it is not challenged directly, that gives the impression of tacit acceptance. And frankly, you can't control what everyone posts.

What prompted me to post about my disagreement is that people have posted on /r/freesoftware about the Librem 5 twice, once to link to the campaign on the same day it launched and once to bring up some sort of ringtone competition they decided to run. These were two different people, of course. I responded to the first one, and I think responding to the second one would be appropriate as well (but preferably not by me this time).

Christianity
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I tried.

eliotime3000
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let's be honest.

Qualcomm is following the same way than Realtek in bring more blobs instead of libre drivers as in past times with Atheros chipset. Even is pleasing to Broadcom for spread that practice.

Replicant is a serious project that focus the security and privacy over the rest of "unrelated functions". Even I'm surprised of how insane is the state of the hardware manufacturers that are doing the best effort possible for avoid the spread of libre drivers and promote the blob distribution.

That's why I don't trust in any company that wants to sells as "the libre mobile offer" when it doesn't be honest with their proceedings. We need a Compaq (the old one, not the actual HP brand) of the smart devices right now!

SuperTramp83

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The following images are probably maybe almost certainly **not** implying anything and really very OT and not relevant to Todd and his nice and very ethical and above all honest business!

6644482331_87dde29378_z.jpg stock-photo-212170457.jpg 5615775279_422ae62002_n.jpg 7086584637_493e931457_c.jpg
IrishUSA
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I could respect Purism more if it weren't for their company's name (and the name of their OS, PureOS).

It's one thing to present yourself as offering the most free product currently possible with modern specifications and styling, while being up front that modern specifications and styling currently require some compromises to freedom, which you are working to overcome in the future but which is not available right now. A name consistent with that would be something like FreedomChasers, or FreedomPath, or something like that.

But the use of Pure and any derivative of that word misleadingly implies 100% pure, total software freedom, no asterisks, no fine print, no compromise, as the company's top priority over everything else, including specs, style, you name it, and that that purity exists in their products NOW. And that's just NOT what they do, and not what they offer.

Librelover
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I'm not trying to fan the flames with this and I think this is an important post as not everyone has been around here for a long time or is as knowledgeable on the subject as some of you more experienced long time members.
and even though it is publicity for purism, this thread made me hold off on a purchase with them. So in the name of freedom this must be discussed. By the way libreboot Leah, I have nothing but respect for what youve accomplished and bring to the community.

As someone that has a libreboot x200, I recently looked at purism because I need more power for some things and trying to accomplish that without giving up on my freedom. I'm trying to run nodes for different cryptocurrency blockchains and my x200 works for just about everything else and is a wonderful little laptop but I can't run any more than a monero node and would like to have bitcoin and the flexibility for other core wallets as well. The current bitcoin block chain is at 150+gigabytes. And I'm not even going to attempt it on a x200 since it took 4 days to synchronize the monero block chain that is around 8gigs. I wrote purism on their forum and asked why they aren't endorsed by FSF and il post their response below. The thing that bothered me about the interaction is that they moved the thread I started to a private round table board on the forum instead of leaving it public which is a big turn off for transparency. After talking to a pretty knowledgeable IT person I met recently he claims to be able to accomplish a similar level of freedom on a modern computer for me, however the cost would be a little more than going through purism and not quite as much power so I'm still on the fence about what to do. Purism seems to be deceptive in their marketing which is a.big turn off but the simple fact is that I need more power and can't afford a libreboot desktop around 5k. Looking to spend about 2 grand max on my setup.

Here's what purism said to me;

There is no such thing as a middle-ground with the FSF. The FSF will not endorse any post-2008 Intel-based (or AMD-based, until further notice) computer, until every last kilobyte of the Intel Management Engine (or AMD PSP) has been reverse engineered or zeroed out (currently Purism can zero out somewhere between 90 and 95% of the IME).

In terms of software: it’s an excruciatingly slow process (months long, and moving targets), even if we already go above and beyond any requirements for GNU Linux distro endorsement.

To be clear for anyone reading my previous reply: I’m not blaming the FSF for sticking to their principles (it’s their job), I’m just stating the current state of things, factually speaking. i.e. 99% free isn’t 100% and therefore there is “no middleground” when it comes to certification—but then nobody else is even remotely close to 100% with modern mainstream hardware, either. So eventually we’ll get to the point where we meet the FSF RYF requirements, in the meantime people have to understand that this middle-ground is the reason why the certification has not yet been obtained, but it’s still the furthest anyone has ever gotten in the industry, with modern x86 that people can just purchase conveniently and a “99%” solution.

if it’s any indication we were able to retroactively port the version 1 of of the Librem 13 to coreboot with a neutralized ME, so it is possible to provide updates “after shipping”. The remaining part of the IME, which needs to be “freed”, is a matter of reverse engineering the remaining binary (hopefully into source code form, as I understand it) to be able to audit what it does, which would probably satisfy the FSF. So my expectation is that this remaining part is an academic exercise that will not require a firmware update (unless we find something really nasty in those hardware bring-up routines).

Magic Banana

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Computers sold on http://libre.thinkpenguin.com are modern and as free as Purism's, i.e., they perfectly work with Trisquel GNU/Linux, the default OS, but they do not have a free BIOS (like Libreboot). Chris, ThinkPenguin's CEO, is at the origin of the liberation of the ath9k_htc firmware, used by all these computers.

Technoethical

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Purism can't deliver the phone they promised in their crowdfunding campaign and it's sad to see yet another misleading campaign. The discussion seems to go off-topic, but it's important to correct some statements:

@MagicBanana

1. The laptop/desktop computers ThinkPenguin sells ship with fully nonfree BIOS, while Purism's laptops ship with coreboot (thanks to a coreboot developer who has done the port). So Purism's laptops are more free than the ones ThinkPenguin sells.

2. @onpon4 ThinkPenguin doesn't say anything about the nonfree BIOS on their product page. In contrast, Technoethical warns about the nonfree bootloader (and the nonfree OS on the momdem) of the phones we preinstall with Replicant and sell.

https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog/desktop-computers-gnu-linux
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog/notebook-computers-gnu-linux-2

3. ThinkPenguin sells computers preinstalled with common GNU/Linux distros that offer or include by default nonfree software. Trisquel is the only exception there. While Purism sells laptops preinstalled with a distro which they seek to fully liberate and get FSF's endorsement.

4. These computers' WiFi cards don't use ath9k_htc. They use ath9k and no firmware is required. The ath9k_htc driver (and its firmware) is required for WiFi adapters on USB.

I'm not defending Purism (which is taking other people's credit and is - probably knowingly - making unrealistic promises), I'm only stating the facts.

/tct

onpon4
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> @onpon4 ThinkPenguin doesn't say anything about the nonfree BIOS on their product page.

I was actually referring to Chris, on the forum.

quantumgravity
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5. Technoethic abused the voting system of this forum in a well orchestrated effort in order to silence the critical voices, even using fakeaccounts. ThinkPenguin never did that.

Since you were so eager when it comes to stating facts, I thought another fact wouldn't hurt.

Technoethical

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Since you brought this again, I'll state again the facts:

My comments were being hidden by people like you who were abusing the voting system in an attempt to silence me in a thread announcing that Technoethical has made available for purchase the most modern laptop with free BIOS. My original post was also being heavily downvoted, which showed the level of hate a gang of trolls on this forum have.

Seeing that, I've called for people involved with Technoethical to review the thread and choose for themselves whether a comment deserves a vote (plus/minus). That has been a reaction to censorship and the administrators of this forum can confirm that in the past we have never downvoted posts we don't agree with. Moreover, it's baseless and completely false that "fake accounts" have been used.

It's quite transparent who is involved with Technoethical: https://trisquel.info/en/users/technoethical The core team is here: https://technoethical.com/about_us

Engage in slander again and you'll be hearing from my lawyer.

/tct

CalmStorm

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Whoa... calm down, its not worth it.

To be honest, I am not sure if what you said is much better. I see no point in causing a fragmented free software community due to pettiness of any kind.

IF you think you are right, let it be. Otherwise people will just rail harder at you.

Silence is golden.

quantumgravity
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"Engage in slander again and you'll be hearing from my lawyer."

This is exactly the aggressive kind of attitude that disqualifies you
from being worth mentioning as a hardware merchant.
Who wants to do business with a person like that?
If you ever wonder why people recommend to stay away from you and your company,
read this thread again.
It makes your name sound like pure sarcasm.

Besides, your threat sounds pretty desperate given how groundless it is.
There is no legal basis for going against critical voices, at least in my country,
we're living in two seperate countries and you don't know anything about me.
Good luck with your lawsuit.

Technoethical

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Despite your efforts to spread false accusations about Technoethical, people are doing business with Technoethical and they recommend us, hence the many positive reviews, the most recent of which published by the FSF in this month's newsletter:

https://www.fsf.org/free-software-supporter/2017/september

We treat each of our customers as if it were us placing the order. That is why people choose us. We go beyond what it is required, we try to understand the customer's needs and offer the best freedom-respecting hardware we can.

Slander is not criticism. Whenever we receive critical observations, we take them serious and we work to make the necessary corrections.

You make it sound like it's hard to sue another EU citizen. It's really not.

/tct

quantumgravity
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"Slander is not criticism. "

The very same argument is used by oppressive governments all over the world. Every tyrant who is opposed to the freedom of free speech argues the very same way in order to defend his actions. Please think about that.

"You make it sound like it's hard to sue another EU citizen. It's really not."

If you don't know his name or address, then it is. But even if you did I would still sleep very well since there is no law that keeps me from calling your actions "unethical" or offensive.

Technoethical

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You avoid talking about the fact that your accusations are false, posing as victim of a supposed freedom of speech violation. The same tactic is also used by political incorrect people, who are very vocal about their freedom of (hate) speech. You will be hold accountable for your false accusations, I promise you that.

/tct

quantumgravity
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And how?^^
Seriously, are you aware that you sound like some kind of gangster right now? Publicly threatening people like that...
Could you present you and your business any worse?
Well, maybe you can...

SuperTramp83

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Just ignore them quantumG. Your time and energy is better spent on (any) other things. Everyone with two brain cells who has been here at the time knows very well what happened and who is behind it..

quantumgravity
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You're completely right...
thanks for the reminder

Technoethical

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You sure have a broken compass of what is lawful and ethical, since you slander and consider that bringing you to justice is gangster behaviour.

/tct

CalmStorm

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I agree that you treat your customers well. But you needn't be so aggressive towards people who disagree with you/competition.

That's just part of having a business. Be more forgiving, and turn the other cheek. If you do this I am certain that people will be more likely to be good to you. and also, there is no need to be harsh. We are all here for the same reason, free software.

You want less critics I take it. If you are silent about the criticisms and kind hearted like you are to your customers, I am sure you will render those critics powerless.

I am not here to judge, just to offer friendly advice, steer away from this strategy you have. It will backfire trust me.

chaosmonk

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If your goal is to have more modern computing without compromising freedom, Purism seems like a non-solution, as they do compromise freedom and don't appear genuinely interested in solving the problems they insist are temporary. Leah and Chris contribute part of their profits to the development of libreboot and Trisquel respectively. Supporting them might be a better investment than supporting someone who is attempting to minimize the importance of the work of the free software movement while profiting from it.

onpon4
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> I need more power for some things and trying to accomplish that without giving up on my freedom.

Like Magic Banana kind of implied, the most powerful "least bad" systems you can get right now are from Think Penguin, particularly the desktop computers. Note that they're still not as good freedom-wise as e.g. the X200 or the Libre Tea computer card (in fact they're about identical to the Purism laptops), but Think Penguin has done a lot of useful work toward that front, including pushing for libre wireless devices (cooperation between Think Penguin and a guy who was working at Atheros was responsible for those wireless devices that got RYF certification); and Chris, the CEO of Think Penguin, has always been quite frank about the imperfect state of the computers Think Penguin sells.

> Here's what purism said to me;

This to me is proof that Purism hasn't changed. They talk about the ME "neutralization" as if it's somehow "freed" most of the ME, and then state that most of it has been neutralized with the implication that it can be removed entirely in the near future, which would be bogus. The ME neutralization only eliminates *non-essential* parts of the ME. What's left is necessary for the CPU to function properly. You can't remove it or you'll have n utterly broken system.

They also imply that they have done this work, when they didn't. They just picked it up from someone else.

And then they have the audacity to say this:

> it’s still the furthest anyone has ever gotten in the industry, with modern x86 that people can just purchase conveniently and a “99%” solution.

Total bullshit. I don't know if Think Penguin runs the ME neutralization script (they ought to, but there might be some fear that maybe it could cause unforeseen problems in the future), but in any case, they've been around waaaaaay longer than Purism and were, and realistically speaking Think Penuin and Purism laptops respect the users' freedom just as much (or rather, just as little).

Librelover
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Yeah it's definitely deceptive marketing, in the same response he says it's 90-95% freed and then calls it a 99% solution in the same response.

Anyways, glad to hear some input because those guys are good at marketing even if they are full of shit.

Is this ME neutralization script available somewhere for anyone to use? Any links to it?

onpon4
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Yeah, Purism didn't even have anything to do with it. This is a post about it:

https://hardenedlinux.github.io/firmware/2016/11/17/neutralize_ME_firmware_on_sandybridge_and_ivybridge.html

And this is the actual project page of me_cleaner, the tool that does it:

https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner

Librelover
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Thanks brother!

eliotime3000
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Thanks by the advice. I really need it to keep safe my desktop PC.

Vikings
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I'm posting this as someone who went actually through the FSF's RYF process to the end.

> There is no such thing as a middle-ground with the FSF.

The FSF is _the_ libre software lighthouse. As such, it has set its own set of well-established principles that are almost written in stone. Not everyone has to agree to those principles, but that's what principles are for; not to get crushed by nonentities at the first sign of trouble. Those principles don't come out of nowhere, they grew historically and they will continue to grow.
The FSF is not beyond reason even though they have principles. When we were communicating with them, they were able to find a middle-ground with things that came up and they offered practical solutions.

Imagine the FSF would find a "middle-ground" with proprietary blobs, potential spyware and whatnot. I don't think that would be a middle-ground, that would be plain ignorant the very least, like the larger part of the industry is. The RYF certification would be absolutely worthless!

> The FSF will not endorse any post-2008 Intel-based (or AMD-based, until further notice) computer, until every last kilobyte of the Intel Management Engine (or AMD PSP) has been reverse engineered or zeroed out (currently Purism can zero out somewhere between 90 and 95% of the IME).

The ASUS KGPE-D16 that can run with libre boot firmware has been released in 2010. It's still available brand-new on the free market and it is still powerful. So powerful we run all our servers with it.

More importantly, there is a new (as in 2017) mainboard coming up from Raptor Engineering, the TALOSII (see other threads in this forum). That's where the progress comes from these days: from small companies with moral principles and ingenuity.
They don't have to "zero out 95% IME". If you go with the non-SAS version, there are no proprietary blobs, 100%. AFAIK this board is eligible for RYF.

> In terms of software: it’s an excruciatingly slow process (months long, and moving targets), even if we already go above and beyond any requirements for GNU Linux distro endorsement.

I've had a different experience and it was a positive one. We actually enjoyed the contact with the FSF and their professionalism _even though_ they were understaffed at that time. Furthermore RYF (=Respects Your Freedom hardware product certification) is not meant for GNU/Linux, but for the underlying hardware.

> To be clear for anyone reading my previous reply: I’m not blaming the FSF for sticking to their principles (it’s their job), I’m just stating the current state of things, factually speaking. i.e. 99% free isn’t 100% and therefore there is “no middleground” when it comes to certification—but then nobody else is even remotely close to 100% with modern mainstream hardware, either.

It would be great to have more modern hardware. We don't need modern hardware that disenfranchises you though. Until we have something better™, we'll stick to "old" hardware that respects our privacy and does what we expect it to do.

One question remains, why do some, if not most, people _still_ not understand in 2017 what this all is about. Why do people still strike a blow for companies that treats them like crap, knowingly. It really beats me.

Librelover
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Thanks for the info, good stuff here.

J.B. Nicholson-Owens
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name at domain wrote:
> One question remains, why do some (if not most) people _still_ not
> understand in 2017 what this all is about. Why do people still strike a
> blow for companies (looking at you, Intel & co.) that treat you like crap.
> It really beats me.

This has more to do with corporate media and the kind of message exclusion
we see in other efforts. It takes a *lot* of money, time, and
non-journalism to keep anti-war talk at bay, for instance, despite that
American public doesn't want more war. But you won't find this sentiment
reflected in the US corporate mainstream media which engages in pro-war
talk daily. I think what goes on with the messages people are taught by all
sorts of discussions in computer discussions is another instance of this
same corporate control. The computer press is not exempt from this control
nor is it unique or different than other non-journalistic press.

We can't expect people to know what they're rarely taught; they're taught
to evaluate computer-related goods and services on price, look & feel of
promotional materials, and perhaps some technical features. Therefore ME
isn't a proprietary backdoor, it's a sysadmin tool. Software freedom rarely
comes up (and is actively put down in some online forums) and is sometimes
purposefully misstated as though it were a development methodology which
can be tossed aside if it becomes inconvenient to major proprietors.

Librelover
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Joined: 08/02/2017

It seems to me that a lot of the people here on this forum work in the computer industry and have fairly advance knowledge already. Bridging the gap between developers and normal every day users is a big task.
Try and do some basic searches as if you were someone without any knowledge of fsf.org or similar things and see how far you have to dig to find it. As someone who is not a professional in the industry it took me a lot of work just to get where I am at with my basic free setup on a x200. I spent many hours researching just to find the company that I bought it from and after I got my computer in the mail I turned it on once and realized I didn't know what I was doing and didn't have time to figure out how to migrate my whole life over to this system so it sat on my shelf for 6 months until I had the energy to tackle that task, as someone who spent most of my life using Apple products it left me with a somewhat learning disability. It's like if a kid only read picture books until they were an adult and then someone gave them a real book and they had to learn how to read for the first time as an adult.

Once I decided to migrate to my x200 it was not easy, I've spent countless hours setting it up and still have a lot to learn and things to figure out how to setup properly. I find it all very fascinating and like learning new things but it's certainly not easy and not everyone is willing to make that kind of commitment, or have the ability to. I was at more of a disadvantage coming from Apple computers and I'm sure it would be a lot easier for someone already familiar with Linux but my point is that there is a lot of people like me or worse so bringing free computing products to the masses is a big undertaking. I think it will take a similar marketing approach that purism is doing to accomplish this, in all honesty they do a great job in a lot of what they do, it's a shame their product isn't legit in terms of real freedom though. So my point is that people are like sheep and need to be herded in the right direction because they are being herded in the wrong directions constantly and as it stands right now there are a few Rebel sheep that leave the herd like me and go out grazing on their own and meet a freedom loving group like everyone here and learn how to do things the right way, but that still leaves most of the world completely unaware of what they are and how they are being manipulated.

ADFENO
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Joined: 12/31/2012

I agree, this media is unfortunatelly misleading. It also happens in
Brazil too, even in research/academic papers.

ADFENO
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Joined: 12/31/2012

Indeed, I agree, these crappy companies (looking at Intel and co. too)
shouldn't receive our money, not even our "supportive/affirmative
talk". :)

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IrishUSA
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Joined: 12/03/2016

Thanks for a great post and for offering the products you do.

Can I ask why some of your hardware has not obtained the RYF certification?

eliotime3000
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Joined: 06/05/2016

Greetings from an HP DC7700 SFF user with a disgraceful surprise (yeah, Intel ME and microcode).

The hard job that requires the deleting of the possibility of Intel arbitrary control of the chipset is flashing with a deblobbed Coreboot like Libreboot/Librecore.

Vanecek
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Joined: 01/18/2015

Hello,

#Vikings: I 100% agree with your statement, especially the two last paragraphs and it's fantastic that little companies like yours and also the great community from Tehnoetic in Bucharest are delivering freedom respecting hardware to average Joe users, like me.

As in many posts in this forum said, it's a very long run to convince a bigger amount of "normal" users, coming out of the zone of nerds. Also most people aren't able to wait for a development of e.g. a new stable os like Flidas...

Greetings from the south of Germany!

martinh
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Joined: 02/21/2014

Blimey ! Wasn't aware my original post would stir up so much Debate !!

The whole thing has taken an interesting turn, as it's now officially
going to be backed by the GNOME Foundation !

https://www.gnome.org/news/2017/09/gnome-foundation-partners-with-purism-to-support-its-efforts-to-build-the-librem-5-smartphone/

Mzee
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Joined: 07/10/2013

Thank you very much for that link. Even KDE decided to support the project: https://www.kde.org/announcements/kde-purism-librem5.php