Is there a perfect method to guard our communication?

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MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

Hello. May I ask your opinions of two questions?

1.Is there a perfect method to guard our electrical communication against an attacks of peepers?

2.About suppliers of libreboot pre-installed devices.

Regarding 1.
I am a begginer of Linux, and English. I was desiring my privacy.
I have been studied quite hard how to make the environmental. I knew about libreboot.
I wanted the free PC, free OS, free softwares.
There are many information in the web. It looks that I need a configured router, own surver, kindly ISP, etc.
I do not still understand that what I need exactly.
I was thinking if I get the PC, I can get the environmental. It looks that it needs configuration itself.
A strong passphrase, disk encryption, VPN, physical shelter,etc...
But I was thinking if I get the free PC, it can guards my privacy by only setting itself.
If there is no that method, if I cannot have perfect confidence in that method, I need not the device.
I have been studied quite hard, but I have never seen a person who assures that these are the methods logically on one or a few pages. I, and maybe all beginners who dream the method, that opinion, like yes, you can but...or no,but... I want to be assured that there is the method at first.
Thank you for reading.
I might state about question 2. after if I will be able to listend to your opinions.
It concerns 1. And it looks this statement is already long.

MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

revision: ...who dream the method, "need" that opinion, like yes...

onpon4
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"Perfect" is impossible. If it's possible for one person to understand something, it's possible for anyone as long as they have the right knowledge. But practically speaking, no one is going to crack good encryption; the time it would take (without e.g. social engineering) is a period of time greater than anyone's lifetime.

Of course, you do have to guard the key against third parties. To do that, you should only ever store the key in a system running software you trust. For maximum security, you would make that machine never connect to any network, but in practice you don't need to go that far if you're using only libre software and installing all security updates.

As for what cryptography to use, software developers have already generally speaking taken care of that. For the Web, turn off JavaScript and use HTTPS. Use Tor Browser to add anonymity; change the security setting to maximum for full protection. For email, use GnuPG with the largest supported key size; there's a guide for Thunderbird (via Enigmail) here:

https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/

And for encrypted instant messaging, Kontalk is probably the easiest choice, though there's also XMPP with OTR (a little tougher since not all XMPP clients support OTR).

SuperTramp83

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>And for encrypted instant messaging, Kontalk is probably the easiest choice

Ricochet can not be easier to use. It's also audited software and anonymous. It's also serverless.

https://ricochet.im

MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

Thank you. Recochet looks unique. Studying this approach will help me to learn the whole internet structure.

I would like to listen your opinion for that too. Does that means that is your opinion the same as, maybe Mr., onpon4's one?

SuperTramp83

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>I would like to listen your opinion for that too

Not quite sure now whether you're asking about ricochet or your previous 2 questions. I assume it's the latter.

>Hello. May I ask your opinions of two questions?
1.Is there a perfect method to guard our electrical communication against an attacks of peepers?

No, there is not. The hardware you use is potentially backdoored, designed to play against you. The software you use is complex and bloated, probably full of bugs. There is no 'perfect' solution. If what you need to do could lead you to jail then what you should do is: do it offline.
If a powerful and motivated adversary wants your data they will get it, sooner or later. There's a good new though: if you are a regular Joe then using encryption will help you to maintain some privacy as your noise will remain just noise. Using encryption will probably flag you though, so probably they (don't ask me who 'they' is) will check you and if they find you sufficiently interesting then they will also find a way to decrypt what is encrypted.
(No, I'm not paranoid. Yes, I am a realist.)

>2.About suppliers of libreboot pre-installed devices.

What exactly is the question? I will just take advantage now to shill minifree and Leah Rowe for it would appear to me she is the one that was crucial and still is (I hope) in the development of the entire thing. If money wants to be thrown at then it wants to be thrown at minifree -> https://minifree.org/

I had some trouble understanding your English, I hope my answers are relevant. cheers

MSuzuqi
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>The hardware you use is potentially backdoored, designed to play against you. The software you use is complex and bloated, probably full of bugs. There is no 'perfect' solution.

Does that means that even if I get a libreboot PC, the PC still has a potential for be installed the backdoors? Not physical backdoors, via traffic. And even the free softwares are complex and bloated, probably full of bugs?
It is obscure about those "the" which are "The" hardware, and "The" software of your words ( I can't say well, but probably you get it ) . Does those "the" mean that free hardwares and softwares?

Even if I am a ordinary person, I will never give them critical or fatal information. That is impossible. If I get those free devices, I will use those for purely business purpose. I am a nameless painter, maybe as you know. I think that sometimes that way is best. Sending the USB stick is very useful for me, if it is possible.

>What exactly is the question?

I have been feeling that these Q and A are working well to make a basic structure of question 2 un-intentionally.
I was going to ask people when I could listend to people's opinions of question 1 enough.
I really thank you who gave me reply. But I don't feel that that is enough.
Currently I could get just two opinions. That might enough, but if possible, I want more opinions.

I don't know well why you shill minifree and Ms.Rowe and why now. I don't like gossip. Hence I don't have interest in gossip mostly. I basically do not trust things which I see.

MSuzuqi
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revision: at the last sentence: I basically do trust things which just I see.

And I am afraid, because I am a new user, besides I don't like a forum very much basically because it looks they get anger easily, so this is my first thread and comment in my life, so I am afraid that please hesitate advertising.
https://minifree.org/ I want opinion. I should thank you to be suggested a good shop. But this looks advertisement.
I am going to decide by myself where I pay.

onpon4
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I suggest you assume good faith from all posters; it's very possible for something you are interpreting as anger is something different entirely, given your skill level at English that I can see.

And at the same token, don't worry about angering people. You'll be fine as long as you don't launch straight-up personal attacks.

onpon4
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> Does that means that even if I get a libreboot PC, the PC still has a potential for be installed the backdoors? Not physical backdoors, via traffic. And even the free softwares are complex and bloated, probably full of bugs?

It just means that no software is perfect, and no hardware is perfect, so mistakes are bound to happen occasionally. We're only human, after all. :)

You don't need to take this as a sign of worry. The protection you can get is still quite good.

> I don't know well why you shill minifree and Ms.Rowe and why now. I don't like gossip. Hence I don't have interest in gossip mostly. I basically do not trust things which I see.

You're right that it's an advertisement, but it's an advertisement with a reasonable purpose: they sell freedom-respecting computers. So in the present moment, they're one of the best options. It's also an unpaid advertisement, though that's a minor point.

If you'd rather have a less biased source, that would be the FSF's resource:

https://fsf.org/ryf

SuperTramp83

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>Does that means that even if I get a libreboot PC, the PC still has a potential for be installed the backdoors?

Yes, they still have 2 proprietary firmware (the hard drive and the embedded controller), if the laptop is going to be shipped to your location an adversary could simply intercept it, install a backdoor and you would never know. All modern CPUs (well, almost all - all Intel CPUS for sure) come with severe security flaws which can be solved only by redesigning the whole thing (look for meltdown and spectre). There could be more flaws which we are not aware of.

>And even the free softwares are complex and bloated, probably full of bugs?

Sure they are. Take a look at Firefox for instance, or pidgin (those two come to my mind right now).

>It is obscure about those "the" which are "The" hardware, and "The" software of your words ( I can't say well, but probably you get it ) . Does those "the" mean that free hardwares and softwares?

I don't understand what you mean.

>I don't know well why you shill minifree and Ms.Rowe and why now. I don't like gossip. Hence I don't have interest in gossip mostly. I basically do not trust things which I see.

By 'shill' I mean 'advertise', that is to say 'promote' or 'support'. It has nothing to do with gossip.

>I basically do not trust things which I see.

Strange. I don't trust things I don't see. Like god for instance.

MSuzuqi
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Thank you very much.

MSuzuqi
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God exist!!! because...

CalmStorm

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You said a ways up that there is no perfect solution. This is true as humans, we make errors, and mistakes and are constantly improving our ways and techniques...

But that last line about God, yes, if by that you are saying that because of the old testament I agree wholeheartedly. But there is a reason for a new testament.

One book shows that we should obey and honor him and shows his mercy and love.

but that's besides the point.

Yes, things you cannot see can be dangerous. But how do you know what you see and what you don't see. People are sometimes deceptive let's say and make something that looks nice and shiny but has all this crap lurking within to spy on you, etc,

But that aside, I completely agree with you on amd and intel. They are both shit.

ARM is a mixed bag though. Shakti on the other hand I really hope is worth something far beyond all the others.

We disagree on spiritual stuff, and agree on matters of free software mostly I am sure.

Personally I don't think God wants us to blindly trust everything in our world. That could lead to great evil after all.

And it has many times due to people abusing his name alas...

False teachers, decievers, evil people... none of whom do anything but try and taint his name for their own personal gain.

Long rant, my bad... ;)

MSuzuqi
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These issues are complex, so we can't summaring of these. I don't think here is proper, I want to debate with all of people of trisquel though. After all, all of you want just everybody making happy life I guess, except the un-invitable. They try to involve their unhappiness. They know they can't join in a place, like trisquel. Because they can't change their living by their cowardice. So he is always surrounded with his nice looks friends. They can't believe each other. Why they are happy? I also want to feel the world everybody are happy. How refreshing. How difficult. Just for clarifing a few of my opinion, of course I attacked the businessmen and trouble searchers. They dont' care how they earn, what with trouble. Of cource religion is their one of the excuses. Color, manner, stud, beautiful, communist, terrorist, witch, heresy, we can anytime find a cause of a war easily. Then always JUSTICE judge them to fill their ugly desire with law or out law. I was laughing with my words persistantly. So the reaction was unexpected.
It maybe first line about God for me. I like basically Mr. Christ as far as I know. I know their masks. They betray you the best time. But I also have to keep caring my thanatos. Probably any saints also have that. They probably had thought " Am I a hypocrite? " Important thing is how we control that. If we are not exterminated by pollution, sooner or later, we have to solve this problem. A computer is the most effective thing for those issues I still think, so this situation a bit disappointed me. I put a pollution issue my current priority. They will try to involve the earth with thanatos. They are not caring their childs's future, obviously. Only interest is themselves. 絶対反省しない、と僕は思っています。Please excuse me, I will refrain from now. I can find the spy?

Pyraman
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There could also be the hidden vulnerabilities built-in to the encryption mathematical algorithms, I'm especially suspicious about the crypto highly approved by the N S A as the public standards everyone should follow

Abdullah Ramazanoglu
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> There could also be the hidden vulnerabilities built-in to the encryption mathematical algorithms

Very good point. That was what I meant with;

[QUOTE]
The real threat to encryption is somewhere else: (1) Key security and (2) Algorithm security. These two must be studied in great detail, I believe.
[/QUOTE]

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/freedom-security-technology-what-can-we-do#comment-127742

MSuzuqi
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Thank you foy your opinion. I was caring that if nobody reply to such basic and maybe stupid question...
These my sentenses are too long. I hesitate about saving, but I am sorry, I want to tell those. I wish this will be useful for someone.

>you would make that machine never connect to any network,

Yes, I thought that recently. I purchase the device which was taken away a wi-fi card and pre-installed GPG.
Then I make a encrypted email by GPG, then I copy the email to a e.g. USB stick, then I hand ( or send if I can ) it to my opponent.
As I am not going to ask the detail to people here, but I don't know yet whether this way is possible or not.
I will satisfy to use only email by the PC.
I will try to avoid that I couldn't do that after I purchase the device.
I am almost giving up to connect always to network the PC.
I am a begginer. I will miss making configuration. I learned one mistake might make leak.
It would take a long time for making reliance on my knowledge.
And I guess that security updates comes always too late against their attacks. I don't want to always care about when it gets a malicious software.
So if I get the device, I am going to use the machine as only for encrypting/decording email machine at least now.

>software developers have already generally speaking taken care of that.

Yes, thanks. I feel often I am being educated by them. I've been learning to use correctly Endless+Onion browser, turning off/on JavaScript, etc, by current only my device, iPhone.
I am using this iPhone for study. It looks iPhone might be not able to be secure.

>https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/

Some people gave me this link :) Yes, I have to read this through, but maybe those pages have not the information of how to use this as for a complete offline :)

I did not know the Kontalk, XMPP, OTR. Thanks.
I am going to study those softwares. And I started to care the social engineering. It sounds, how I say, danger?
Their attacks keep progressing, updating is almost always late for the attacks, I guess that is main reason for perfect is impossible. But practically, I might be able to make it.
But then, I need perfect.

I am glad especially to hearing the "never connect to any network" from other people.

akito
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@MSuzuqi I suggest that you should watch Citizenfour. Read Glenn Gleenwald's No Place to Hide and the Snowden Files. Also these sites has alternatives to proprietary softwares and how to counter surveillance:
https://prism-break.org
https://privacytools.io

MSuzuqi
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Thank you. It seems your name is Japanese. I'm a Jap.
I watched Citizenfour in the next day of release, in 2016. If I remember correctly, the day of release in the West was in 2013.
And there were just about 20 peoples in the cinema. And I have watched the DVD, and read maybe the snowden file.
This would wanders away a bit, I like Mr. Snowden's courage and intelligence, I think he did decisive work, but although my information about it is not plenty, I don't understand why he left his family and his girlfriend behind when he went to HongKong. That looked there was some risk, especially there is USA. Did he let them move to a better safe place before he open his face to the media? I can't remember well.

https://privacytools.io/ is new information. Thanks.
But then, I would like to listen to your opinion for that too.

onpon4
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へぇ~。

But "Jap" is generally seen as a slur. You probably don't want to refer to yourself as that. It would be like me referring to myself as a 外人, I guess.

ところで、私は女です。 (You're not the first to make the mistake. I should change my avatar...)

MSuzuqi
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Once upon a time, there was a French footballer whose name is like your name. But that name sounded lady surely.
But I also thought that a lady who learns Japanese is rare. Because Japanese men are not popular with ladies of the world. It looks that Japanese ladies are popular in the world.
The avatar looked kindly. How about letting her wear a bra? If that is awkword, how about a ribbon or something.
言われてみれば確かに女グニューですけどな。

onpon4
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> But I also thought that a lady who learns Japanese is rare. Because Japanese men are not popular with ladies of the world. It looks that Japanese ladies are popular in the world.

I don't think many people Japanese because they're attracted to Japanese girls. xD The number one reason is probably Japanese cartoons, and the number two reason is probably romanticism of Japanese culture. My reason was a bit more mundane: I just wanted to learn a language with a different writing system because I thought that would be cool, and then loved Japanese class to the point where I just refuse to go away from Japanese study. Plus, I still think Japanese is a great language.

akito
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I am sorry but I am not japanase, it is only the username in japanese though. I am still in Asia.

MSuzuqi
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Hi Akito. Asia is morning. But it was a sleepness night. Making English sentence takes a quite long time.
And I am insomnia.

MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

I think I took advantage of your reply. My English and insomnia have no connection with this reply.
I should have explained to you that just it was a sleepness night, so I try to sleep from now.
I don't know how you felt, I am sorry if you were offended.

onpon4
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No worries. Your English is way better than my Japanese, at any rate.

onpon4
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privacytools.io seems fine, but I don't recommend prism-break as a reference. It's all over the place and blacklists Trisquel because it's based on Ubuntu, which just tells me they don't understand how this stuff works.

MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

Hi MaybeMr. It looks you always state your opinion with its grounds. So the opinion have reasonableness.
But prism-break has valuable information to me. As this is my brief, They state that people need a own surver, and a supplier agreed that opinion. I knew that there. Oh, I need my own surver too? But they are not stating that ground. So I don't still know why I need own surver, router. Tor is quite understandable since especially their site. It is difficult for me that judging information of this computer world. But, in this libre world, it seems fake information is not quite more than other worlds since maybe that is people's normal goodwill.

onpon4
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Most of the recommendations on prism-break are fine, so if you find it helpful, go for it. I just don't think it's a helpful reference in general. It's too unfocused.

MSuzuqi
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After all, What is his intention is always the one of the main issues.

akito
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@MSuzuqi PRISM-break suggest owning your own server so you are in control of your data.

If you have an ISP(internet service provider) that allows port forwarding and you can leave a librebooted device 24/7 online (not energy friendly) or just a freedom friendly single board computer (eg. beaglebone black) [energy friendly], they can act as a server and you can now host your own wallabag,mediagoblin,diaspora/gnusocial,seafile/owncloud/nextcloud,wordpress etc. You just need a free dynamic dns like nsupdate.info
The only problem would be your ISP's router which is proprietary [unless can be flashed with librecmc[, your net bandwidth limit per month/day.

MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

So I will try to sleep from now... Thanks. I took a glance this, it looks difficult, I think about this later...
Have a good day.

Alij
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MSuzuqi
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Joined: 01/22/2018

Thank you! Do you know a few of my abilities? This photo seems a bit Totti.

Abdullah Ramazanoglu
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MSuzuqi San,

As I understood, you are both new to GNU/Linux and you are concerned with your security and privacy. Good security requires good understanding of the system. You can always change your GNU/Linux distribution or tune your system settings for best security later, when you have learned better. It is free. But you can't change your hardware for free. Also, specialized hardware (e.g. libreboot laptops) are relatively quite expensive than their equivalents. So, I would suggest you defer specialized hardware purchase for a later time, when you have learned more about security and GNU/Linux, so that you will know exactly what hardware/system you want to buy.

I would suggest just start with a typical (normal) PC or laptop and learn GNU/Linux (and security setup) on it. I think it is the most cost efficient way for you.

I am using GNU/Linux for a long time, I am also concerned with my security and privacy, but I am still using a typical PC. To give a rough example;

* With Windows you have 10%-30% security (depending on your expertise)
* With GNU/Linux (typical PC) you have 50%-95% security (depending on your expertise)
* With GNU/Linux (libreboot PC) you have 50%-%97 security
* With GNU/Linux (special hardware[*]) you have 50%-%99 security
(the % numbers are just symbolic, to give you a rough idea)

[*] Please see;
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/2017-December/015062.html
http://rise.cse.iitm.ac.in/shakti.html
http://rhombus-tech.net/riscv/shakti/m_class/

If you install non-free programs (some distributions offer such options) or some other questionable programs (even though they are free) on GNU/Linux, your security level can go down (this is why I have shown a large 50%-99% security range). For "questionable program" examples please see;
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/web-browser

Therefore, whether you use standard PC (cheap) or specialized PC (expensive) it will only change security level by 2%-4%. For this reason, I suggest you start with a standard PC or laptop.

Wish you the best. :)

MSuzuqi
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Ramazanoglu bey,

I thought over what your suggestion. I am going to buy a libreboot laptop. I am desiring to touch a cleaner machine, and I think I should see those dirt. If they let he go to eat for playing safe, I will able to move it symmetrically as my usual tried and favorite methods.

heyjoe
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> 1.Is there a perfect method to guard our electrical communication against an attacks of peepers?

Only if you create your own network, completely isolated from the Internet.

For Internet: Abdullah's advice is perhaps the best compromise.

Magic Banana

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With your own isolated network you would only communicate with yourself, i.e., not communicate. Free software end-to-end encryption, using good-enough cyphers and protocols, is the solution. It works on the Internet. That is for the data. For the meta-data, the best we have is Tor. Both solutions imply compromises: user-friendliness and performance are traded for privacy.

GrevenGull
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1. I don't think that was what he meant.

You can set up a communicative network with more people than yourself and still be isolated from the Internet. I think that was what he meant.

2. You say: Free software end-to-end encryption, using good-enough cyphers and protocols, is the solution. It works on the Internet.

How come there are people talking about encryption not being safe? And may I ask for an elaboration on why that is the "solution"?

3. You say: That is for the data. For the meta-data, the best we have is Tor.

May I ask what you mean by this?

heyjoe
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> You can set up a communicative network with more people than yourself and still be isolated from the Internet. I think that was what he meant.

Yes. But MB likes to twist words and argue over the twist :)

> How come there are people talking about encryption not being safe? And may I ask for an elaboration on why that is the "solution"?

Encryption itself is safe but the endpoints are infected by proprietary software running at ring -2 and -3 which means the private keys are not protected. Read this post and watch the video linked inside it and you will understand:

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/free-email-providers#comment-127945

GrevenGull
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> Yes. But MB likes to twist words and argue over the twist :)

It seems so...

> Encryption itself is safe but the endpoints are infected by proprietary software running at ring -2 and -3 which means the private keys are not protected. Read this post and watch the video linked inside it and you will understand:

Allright, thanks. Perhaps I'll take a look.

MSuzuqi
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By the way, God is.
In 1995, I was at a something called cardozo or cardoso's house in the Cuba. Santería is a system of beliefs...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santer%C3%ADa

GrevenGull
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What?

Magic Banana

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Why should the communication go through "your own network"? Those are your words. Isn't your interlocutor entitled to control the network carrying the communication as much as you are? So, maybe, you want to mutually build an isolated network just for you two? Good luck if an ocean separates you! And how ecological/economical is that? If everybody would do that, you would have a number of isolated networks that is the number of people on earth time the average number of contacts divided by two. Networks that are almost never used.

Having the Internet, campaigning for it to be neutral (unlike in the USA, now) and using end-to-end encryption (+ Tor is needed) looks far more reasonable.

akito
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@heyjoe By 'Own network' are you referring to using Mesh Network?

@ALL can you guys recommend P2P programs like (syncthing,bitmessage?)
Is riot.im recommended?

heyjoe
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Own network = a network in which you can communicate without external interference, independent of company X, Y, Z.

MSuzuqi
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I would like to ask you question 2.
It looks that here is valuable many information. Thank you for everybody. I was searching for information before make this thread. Now I have many information as like homeworks.
Regarding the suppliers, I think that they should gather these information in a website for a begginer can searchs basic information easily. You probably understand other reasons from above. For me, it looks that Mr. Ramazanoglu's opinion was almost enough. I don't still understand well about how do a router and a server effect on those persentage. But anyway, I understand 100% is impossible. If they opened these information their website, I would not have to make this thread. They were not going to make informed-consent with me. I think that that is a customer's normal right. They said me they are busy. So I spend quite a lot of my time for search information, criticize them. They have ignored me while a week, twice or more. That excuse was busy, do it yourself, you ask too much. Indeed, that might fact. But If they are busy, much less they should make that website.
I think you probably can get this demerits for both customer side and productor side than me. I can't see this merit.
How do you think this matter? Thank you for reading.

heyjoe
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First you should understand that this is capitalism and everyone is trying to sell you something (even "free" things). Too much advertising and too heavy marketing language is a sign to be noted. Look at how they speak, not only what they say.

Personally I get in direct contact with the service provider and ask what I am interested in. From the way they reply I understand what is the depth of their technical expertise and with what attention they approach the questions (level of support). If they ignore me or try to entice me too much - I note this for myself too.

At the end I compare. Usually it is quite easy to choose the best (or least worse) because in every field there are only a few who really shine.

MSuzuqi
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First, Although I am not a economist, but I have read Marx at least. i.e. I understand why when I hand them money, I own the goods and what is dialectic.

>At the end I compare. Usually it is quite easy to choose the best (or least worse) because in every field there are only a few who really shine.

In fact, I told a lie to you, please forgive me. Because modern philosophy regards everybody as liars. But we can't also summary this idea. I was noticing that this possibility. That is seclusion. I can understand that your thought. I also desire to seclude in peaceful world. But I have been living in the bottom of the worldy ugly world since 20 years over. Indeed, that is merit, but I guess that you are doubting that way. That is a closed world, not opened world. But you like open and free. Because you have been seeing how closed and non-free worlds corrupt their mind. Is that really all of your agreement? If so, I might not like this world very much. It looks that obiviously this philosophy relactive your philosophy. Should I reread...

heyjoe
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Joined: 01/09/2018

I simply explained what I do.