17:09:00 <quidam> #startmeeting Development meeting
17:09:00 <RB-34> Meeting started Tue Feb 12 17:09:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is quidam. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:09:00 <RB-34> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:09:00 <RB-34> The meeting name has been set to 'development_meeting'
17:09:27 <quidam> #topic Trisquel 6 release
17:09:37 <quidam> ok, so the images are ready
17:09:39 <DNS> \o/
17:10:07 <quidam> the "freedom bugs" in them have been closed, the netinstall added, the bootloader fixed
17:10:24 <quidam> yesterday I also added the window manager selector script we talked about last week
17:10:42 <quidam> only the wallpaper needs to be added
17:11:26 <DNS> quidam: did h-client made it on default image?
17:11:36 <DNS> and which irc client is now default? :D
17:12:02 <quidam> this is the point of this meeting, find out what did I forget about...
17:12:14 <DNS> :-)
17:12:19 <quidam> #action quidam check to add h-client to images
17:12:24 <quidam> DNS: the client is pidgin
17:12:41 <DNS> ok but next time it should be really weechat (ftw)
17:12:45 <DNS> hahaha
17:12:47 <DNS> :)
17:12:50 <quidam> DNS: removing ubuntu docs did not provide any extra room after all
17:12:59 <DNS> oh i c
17:13:16 <quidam> I haven't been checking the forum/list for T6 beta testing
17:13:28 <quidam> so I don't know if I have missed any bug
17:13:46 <andrew3> I don't think there's been many complaints
17:14:17 <quidam> I've just been following this: http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/toutatis-development
17:14:17 <andrew3> maybe one or two in the issue tracker?
17:14:38 <quidam> oddly enough it has no editions but mine
17:15:05 <quidam> somebody volunteers to check this list against the tracker and the forum?
17:15:19 <daroal> quidam: I can do that
17:15:25 <DNS> hmm i was concentratin a bit on the bug tracker itself
17:15:59 <quidam> DNS: do you think is there something missing?
17:16:00 <DNS> on the 'blockin' statuses
17:16:09 <daroal> quidam: topics in the forum have mostly been about other stuff these weeks, but I'll check to be sure
17:16:14 <DNS> not for the image it seems but please recheck
17:16:48 <DNS> https://trisquel.info/en/project/issues?text=&projects=&status=Open&priorities=4&categories=All
17:16:51 <quidam> bugs outside the image should not be release blockers
17:16:57 <DNS> ok
17:18:51 <quidam> or should they?
17:18:54 <DNS> quidam: this is fixed? https://trisquel.info/en/issues/6733
17:19:15 <andrew3> ^ not included in 6.0 atm by default I think
17:19:17 <daroal> quidam: well, that's a point of discussion
17:19:29 <daroal> quidam: being critical vs being release blockers
17:19:36 <quidam> andrew3: are you the same andrew?
17:19:38 <daroal> (for freedom bugs, I mean)
17:19:50 <andrew3> I will release patch for 6733 wed/thu hopefully
17:20:02 <andrew3> yes andrew3=andrew
17:20:05 <DNS> btw also for nautilus: https://trisquel.info/en/issues/7045
17:20:22 <quidam> andrew3: the tgz should do
17:20:29 <quidam> I'll take a look after the meeting
17:20:34 <jxself> Oops; I'm late.
17:20:58 <andrew3> quidam: the patch is very large but I have script to do a lot of it now
17:21:13 <andrew3> and proper package helper
17:23:18 <quidam> daroal: I'd like to close all those bugs before release
17:24:37 <daroal> quidam: but with a quick calculation about the time it took to close the ones that were in the image, it doesn't look feasible to do that and keep the release date...
17:25:04 <quidam> not really
17:25:59 <quidam> some are to be removed and would take little time to fix
17:26:12 <quidam> those that need a helper take some time
17:26:53 <quidam> even if one has been provided, although that helps a big deal
17:27:13 <daroal> quidam: one question about some of those: if a freedom problem was fixed upstream in the package version for Toutatis but not for Taranis, it should still be fixed by us, right?
17:27:29 <quidam> I think we should move the release date one week, since in any case I failed to hit the RC date
17:27:56 <quidam> daroal: yes, I am applying fixes to taranis as well
17:28:13 <andrew3> quidam: that's fine with me
17:28:13 <quidam> not to the other versions since they are about to be archived
17:28:46 <andrew3> soon only two versions to maintain?
17:28:49 <quidam> ok, so this week I'll release final images with the artwork, that should need no extra work
17:30:02 <quidam> and next week I can work on cleaning up those bugs before the release
17:30:06 <quidam> agreed?
17:30:40 <daroal> quidam: sounds good
17:31:40 <quidam> #action quidam to publish RC before feb 14, final release on 22
17:32:12 <quidam> if anybody catches a missing bug in the images please ping me inmediatelly
17:32:29 <quidam> what should we do with https://trisquel.info/en/issues/6248
17:32:32 <quidam> Forum contains links to non-free software
17:33:11 <quidam> even if we remove the references they would still be present in the lists
17:34:12 <DNS> hmm
17:34:24 <andrew3> the forums seem to be used as archives more than the list
17:34:34 <quidam> probably
17:34:45 <daroal> to be honest, I don't see that much of a problem with those; as explained in the ticket, no reference to non-free software has gone unnoticed and "corrected"
17:35:01 <andrew3> maybe just edit to links [link removed] or something
17:35:36 <quidam> what if we remove the offending text with a template linking to a explanation in the wiki?
17:35:42 <quidam> same for all instances
17:35:56 <andrew3> not so much of a big issue because other users are at least recommending away from non-free software in most cases
17:35:59 <daroal> it's an option, and it's not hard to implement; it's never nice to edit other person's messages thoufh
17:36:06 <daroal> though
17:36:34 <quidam> yes... but leaving the links and instructions is also bad
17:36:55 <daroal> quidam: ok, so let's implement the substitution link + wiki page
17:37:03 <andrew3> +1
17:37:16 <daroal> and... let's work on the directives shown when the account is registered
17:37:18 <aklis> quidam: bug about gnome-system-monitor is under the radar
17:37:33 <quidam> aklis: link?
17:38:55 <aklis> quidam: #trisquel
17:39:14 <aklis> 18:36 < Basstard`> jxself: Just to be clear, I'm referring to  gnome-system-monitor. I just booted the images of 4.0, 4.5,  5.0, early 5.5, and it's in the menus. So ...
17:39:55 <quidam> but what is wrong with it?
17:40:02 <andrew3> aklis: I remember manually adding gnome sysmonitor manually in menu for 5.0/5.5
17:40:06 <jxself> Yes, basstard wants it on the menus.
17:40:10 <quidam> ah
17:40:17 <jxself> Right now it only appears in System Settings.
17:40:52 <quidam> jxself: does it?
17:40:57 <daroal> hmm, I always launch that from the system monitor applet
17:40:57 <quidam> I cannot find it
17:41:54 <aklis> if it was there on previous versions, it's a regression :/
17:42:25 <quidam> where was it before?
17:42:36 <andrew3> Accessories I think
17:42:48 <andrew3> I'm not on my trisquel computer atm
17:42:54 <aklis> quidam: the update proces is tested?
17:43:07 <quidam> aklis: good question
17:43:16 <aklis> i can upgrade, but as i use kde
17:43:17 <quidam> I tested it, but not in much deep
17:43:30 <quidam> it should be tested with VM instances
17:43:36 <aklis> i'm not a good example
17:43:42 <quidam> installing 4.0 and 5.5, and upgrading from both
17:43:43 <aklis> quidam: and also with live desktops...
17:43:52 <daroal> about the system monitor link: I don't think it's anywhere in Brigantia, but it was in System/Administration in Taranis
17:43:53 <aklis> vms are almost clean installs, not used desktops
17:44:12 <quidam> aklis: yes, but it is harder to find volunteers for that
17:44:15 <aklis> configs can be lost and so on :/
17:44:24 <aklis> and that's why i'm bringing the topic here
17:44:37 <aklis> this is trisquel-deve, and the release is almost there...
17:44:40 <aklis> some brave men?
17:44:41 <aklis> :P
17:44:50 <andrew3> I can update my 5.5 tomorrow
17:44:57 <andrew3> dist-upgrade?
17:45:09 <ksuhku> me too if you tell me what to do :=
17:45:15 <andrew3> * using dist-upgrade will work?
17:45:20 <aklis> first of all, make backups
17:45:21 <quidam> yo have to test with "update-manager -d"
17:45:26 <aklis> or get a livecd , this test can fail
17:45:34 <aklis> then, yes, sudo update-manager -d
17:45:50 <quidam> sudo is not needed
17:46:17 <DNS> or sudo do-release-upgrade
17:46:19 <DNS> ^^
17:46:37 <quidam> DNS: yes, if you want to test the non-gui procedure
17:46:48 <quidam> you need the -d flag as well
17:46:48 <andrew3> okay I will backup and upgrade later today maybe
17:46:54 * aklis updating current system
17:47:02 <aklis> procedure must be :
17:47:08 <aklis> 1.- Update current system
17:47:13 <quidam> aklis: you can try the do-release-upgrade -d
17:47:19 <aklis> 2.- Backup home config files
17:47:44 <aklis> 3.- Use one of the methods named here (update-manager -d or sudo do-release-upgrade -d)
17:47:45 <daroal> I suppose the parts that will not work will be the same that failed at the first upgrade from gnome 2 to 3
17:47:47 <aklis> ok?
17:47:50 <quidam> aklis: it should not touch your home at all
17:47:57 <daroal> so, just panel configuration and such
17:48:02 <quidam> aklis: if anything I would backup /etc and /var
17:48:32 <quidam> daroal: the session manager should handle those
17:48:33 <aklis> ok, so /etc and $HOME
17:48:34 <ksuhku> most people probably will do a graphical update
17:49:48 <quidam> ok, I'll do some tests using VMs
17:50:32 <quidam> #action quidam add gnome-system-monitor back to menus
17:51:01 <Basstard`> :D
17:51:15 <quidam> ok, what else?
17:51:31 <quidam> we need release notes and a press release for next week
17:52:02 <quidam> we can discuss it in next meeting
17:52:46 <quidam> this meetings are being useful to some extent, but as soon as the release is done, we need to work on our organization
17:52:53 <malberts> quidam: i dont think it is a priority (and i havent tested it, so excuse me if it is done) but the gnome shell search engine shortcuts should be set to use the duckduckgo version instead of google
17:53:39 <petergk> css mod?
17:53:51 <quidam> malberts: well that would be an easy helper
17:54:07 <DNS> http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/255991
17:54:15 <quidam> malberts: since shell is not in the image, if somebody contributes it we will add it
17:54:25 <petergk> quidam, if you need any gfx for press materials just say
17:54:26 <petergk> :>
17:54:51 <quidam> petergk: just some screenshots I guess
17:55:00 <malberts> oh yes. i forgot this is only for the image now.
17:55:32 <andrew3> quidam: I will have a look at gnome shell search
17:56:01 <quidam> andrew3: ok, but that is not at all a priority
17:56:20 <quidam> this week I'd like you all to focus on testing as much as possible
17:56:29 <quidam> images, upgrades...
17:56:42 <quidam> the one package I'm not happy with is gnome-panel
17:56:46 <quidam> it has some glitches
17:56:49 <petergk> I guess you need standard trisquel design shots
17:57:03 <andrew3> quidam: any new glitches since 3.2? ;)
17:57:07 <aklis> quidam: do we know any blind user that can help us with a11y?
17:57:21 <ksuhku> dave probably could help there aklis
17:57:42 <aklis> dave?
17:57:43 <quidam> ksuhku: he tested it already, seemed pleased
17:57:47 <quidam> dave hunt
17:58:03 <ksuhku> yeah, hin
17:58:05 <ksuhku> him
17:58:08 <aklis> quidam: awesome
17:58:20 <daroal> quidam: I read about some problems appearing with a11y enabled on amd machines
17:58:25 <daroal> let me find the link
17:58:42 <quidam> just in case somebody missed it, the current gnome images have a11y on by default
17:59:09 <daroal> this https://trisquel.info/en/forum/fwd-support-trisqel-accessibility-information
17:59:17 <quidam> but only if you leave the boot countdown to finish
17:59:56 <aklis> quidam: i18n version is ready?
18:00:05 <ksuhku> (i'm ksuhku in that thread)
18:00:08 <Basstard`> Regarding the proposed wallpaper, it is a bit busy and interferes with text. But that's my humble opinion.
18:00:32 <ksuhku> (i'm *lembas in that thread)
18:00:46 <daroal> ksuhku: hey! Hi, lembas!
18:00:54 <ksuhku> :) Hi daroal
18:01:01 <quidam> daroal: that looks like a audio driver bug, hardware dependent
18:01:09 <daroal> ksuhku: we're a little low on AMD machines here
18:01:18 <daroal> ksuhku: which is to say, we don't have any
18:01:21 <ksuhku> glad to be of any help then
18:02:19 <daroal> ksuhku: and on the processor side of course it shouldn't matter, but on the integrated devices and video cards, we're somehow lost
18:02:50 <quidam> there is not much support we can bring to that level
18:03:04 <quidam> so let's hope the amd64 version works better there
18:03:15 <daroal> quidam: well, you know, sometimes a little configuration fix can go a long way
18:03:22 <ksuhku> I haven't yet had time to try it but I will, promise
18:03:33 <andrew3> some of those bugs might be inherited from upstream as well
18:03:34 <daroal> quidam: and I don't think that will help...
18:04:03 <daroal> andrew3: oh, absolutely
18:04:06 <quidam> daroal: what would?
18:04:58 <daroal> quidam: I suppose having access to a test AMD hardware platform, specifically to work out issues solvable by configuration of the (pretty broken) radeon driver
18:06:14 <quidam> that would be  nice project
18:06:20 <quidam> if we had the resources for it
18:06:25 <daroal> quidam: or, in its place, having access to a tester with the above configuration :D
18:07:34 <daroal> quidam: about the resources, once the release queue is cleared, it would make sense to think if some hardware purchases (or donations!) would make sense for the project
18:08:07 <quidam> yes, we can think of it after the release
18:08:14 <daroal> by know, I'd say that bug reports from knowledgeable AMD users would be really great
18:08:35 <daroal> so ksuhku and any others, you know what to do :)
18:09:04 <ksuhku> :) not sure about the knowledge but will try to file any issues
18:09:31 <quidam> ok, any other topic?
18:10:34 <DNS> yea we want to test next time meeting in mumble?
18:10:36 <DNS> :D
18:10:45 <jxself> I couln't participate.
18:11:07 <jxself> IRC is much easier since the meeting happens while I'm at work.
18:11:16 <DNS> jxself: mumble has text chat too, but if you cant listen then this wouldnt work well
18:11:26 <daroal> DNS: one innocent question: have you been at a 15+ person meeting with Mumble? :)
18:11:38 <DNS> yes even in bigger ones
18:12:01 <quidam> ok, countdown
18:12:03 <quidam> 10
18:12:04 <daroal> DNS: and were there a strong organization? because I'm not sure how it would work without it...
18:12:11 <jxself> 9
18:12:20 <aklis> daroal: with moderation :P
18:12:23 <daroal> DNS: in any case, auto-minutes are pretty valuable
18:12:39 <DNS> i can give some rights thats not an issue
18:12:52 <DNS> :p
18:13:01 <aklis> daroal: if a mumble can handle wow clan with hundred of users
18:13:21 <daroal> aklis: I don't see as a technical problem at all
18:13:21 <aklis> the problem is not with mumble, but with users ;)
18:13:35 <daroal> so, in any case, 8 :)
18:13:42 <aklis> 7
18:13:42 <malberts> 7
18:13:44 <DNS> 7
18:13:47 <DNS> :p
18:13:52 <malberts> somebody won the jackpot
18:13:52 <daroal> that's a jackpot!
18:14:00 <daroal> hehe
18:14:14 <daroal> 6--
18:14:27 <jxself> 12
18:14:37 <daroal> one day I'll customize RB-34 for that
18:15:02 <ksuhku> so when is next meeting?
18:15:11 <DNS> ksuhku: great question
18:15:15 <jxself> Next Tuesday? 17:00?
18:15:26 <quidam> yup
18:15:27 <DNS> (:
18:15:53 <jxself> I hope to have the kernel backport completed by that time.
18:16:37 <daroal> I would say that, non having an specified alternative, each weekly meeting would take place at the same time/day of the week as the previous one
18:16:58 <quidam> #endmeeting