Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?

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Chris

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I think your missing the point. It's not a topic we should be discussing here. We shouldn't be having a discussion on DRM in relation to gaming. Any game with DRM is non-free and not appropriate here. If you feel otherwise it's a discussion you need to take elsewhere. In fact your not in agreement with the ethos of the free software movement if you think its acceptable.

The only thing we maybe could be discussing is how to get away from DRM-systems like laptops which have DRM on the mini pcie wifi card slot. That dosn't involve weather or not DRM is acceptable. We've already agreed by being here it's not acceptable.

t3g
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Sorry, I was distracted by your incorrect usage of "your" and "you're". :-)

Anyways, I softballed some solutions to the free engine debacle so hopefully it was helpful.

commodore256
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I get what you mean, I see free software supporters as a spectrum thing instead of a binary false dichotomy. There are are people that are dependent on non-free software and can't afford the switching costs of spending downtime to learn something like Blender, but appreciate the free software philosophy and then there's people that install Coreboot and everywhere in between.

While I don't have all non-free software purged from my computer, I have my fullest respects to people like you and moxalt and the people at FSF that really stick to their guns. Especially with the FSF video on User Liberation, I watched it and the first thought that came to my mind was "Phh, I bet they payed a guy to make this and he used the Adobe flash animator" and I was pleasantly surprised to find the sources for that video and that's something worth admiring.

That said, I do plan on experimenting with Trisquel and I would even build a KFSN4-DRE Workstation and install Coreboot on it and document my experiment.

Embracer245
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I guess this is why some of us are Free-Software Diehards!

bluzeo
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i going to say this and be done with it- games are not evil- i am, tired of people saying video games cause voilence but im sorry they dont but the linux cummonity needs a game devolper team that runs an GPL engine and only focus on games for linux but untill then i for one while pay 50 bucks for games that are DRM free- i do think we need to get an open source team started to make games that are AAA titles and kick sony!

t3g
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Chris

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Your entitled to that position, but its contradictory to the movement's position. Non-free software is unethical. If you don't agree then it's not the right place for you.

t3g
t3g
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Did you even read it? THE GAME ENGINES WILL BE FREE.

moxalt
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I think he can be forgiven for misunderstanding.

Chris

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> " i for one while pay 50 bucks for games that are DRM free"

I read that and that's the part that was the problem.

bluzeo
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@t3g-i agree but the Linux community needs to agree on what is what- i recently email the FSF about couple of things and they rubbed me the wrong way. i'm sorry but we need to have change in the big boy playground so us little guys (newcomers} can also play and help premote libre free sofware.
like Chris Fisher from Jupiterbradcasting has says. we need to clean up our act and get rid of distro that are the same thing then big boy like microsfot will get worried. but untill we do the microsfot and apples fan will be cussing and making fun of us.

t3g
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People will never agree as they are stubborn and will protect their ego. If there is a disagreement, they will create their own community. After time, there is conflict within the new community and members leave to start yet another.

There may never be a solution to this. That's why companies like Canonical decided to do their own thing with Mir. They were never going to get what they wanted with Wayland and the other Wayland devs wouldn't play nice with Canonical.

Free software allows you the right to create a derivative work and I would never deny someone that right. I just think that if less people did it and swallowed their pride for the greater good of a project, that we would have better quality free software code.

Jookia
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"I just think that if less people did it and swallowed their pride for the greater good of a project, that we would have better quality free software code."

People say this so much but whenever anyone sits down and tries to do this, nobody agrees on what project to focus on as everyone has different preferences. I feel like it's a pointless thought, though I'd like to know what projects you have in mind that could specifically use this?

t3g
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Well, you do see collaboration on big projects, but that tends to be by multiple corporations who have a vested interest. Something that comes to mind is the Vulkan graphics project. It is happening because all these companies want a better graphics stack and become less reliant on DirectX.

The nice thing about Vulkan is that GNU/Linux games will not be second class citizens to their Windows ones. Free or not.

Magic Banana

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That's why companies like Canonical decided to do their own thing with Mir. They were never going to get what they wanted with Wayland and the other Wayland devs wouldn't play nice with Canonical.

What exactly has Canonical wanted that Wayland does not provide? Apart from Canonical's corporate control (through contributor license agreements)? The wiki page that was announcing Mir was showing a great ignorance on what problems Wayland was solving so that the page could state that Mir will solve problems that Wayland won't. It was plain wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_%28software%29#Controversy

t3g
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Let's revisit this topic when Mir gets released with either 16.04 or 16.10 and compare to Wayland.

t3g
t3g
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bluzeo
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ok i dont know what happen to my last post but i have heard this From JupiterBroadcasting a lot and i agree we need an os standerd amd pratice - recently had to email FSF for some ? and i will never do it again- i will not be treated like an idoit. we need to rethink how we approach new users better

moxalt
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Can you please rephrase this post to make it understandable? It sounded like
something interesting.

Embracer245
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Many game companies like EA and Rockstar HATE Free software so badly, They dont even release their games for GNU/Linux (for Rockstar, i think this is true, but i may be wrong). Some companies release their game engines as free software, Like Id Software's Old ID tech engines and Ken-Silverman's Build engine (technially non-free, Because it's free for non-commercial use only.) There is some nonfree developers like Valve who Embrace GNU/Linux and even make a Distro. Digital (Restictions) Management is extremely bad for freedom Lovers. I agree with that. What if your favourite game is non-free? Do you find a GNU/Linux version of the nonfree game, or you settle in for a Free-Software clone like minetest, Openarena, Etc.

davidnotcoulthard (non verificado)
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I really doubt it's because of something other than Windows and gaming consoles being so popular.......(i.e. it's Money and nothing more than that if you ask me).

Embracer245
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Well, i believe it is a free software hatred by major companies like apple and eletronic arts, but everone is entitled to an opinion.

andermetalsh
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"Like Id Software's Old ID tech engines and Ken-Silverman's Build engine (technially non-free, Because it's free for non-commercial use only.) "

http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions

Eduke32 is GPL. Also, you have forks of Eduke32 for Redneck Rampage.

And , more awesome, you have a Blood reimplementation for Eduke32.

Embracer245
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Well, i was talking about the original build engine,wasn't i?

andermetalsh
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Sorry, I thought Remedy changed the original Build's license to a libre one.

vita_cell
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"sorry, wrong thread"

t3g
t3g
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In another note speaking of games, this one guy did a comparison between Ubuntu 15.04 and Windows 10 and the new Source 2 engine in DOTA 2 performed better on Ubuntu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM8qXbJqMvs&html5=1

I know its all non-free and all with the game, platform, and firmware, but I hope some of you can see why they may want to game on GNU/Linux instead of Windows. Windows 10 is a spy machine and some people just want to play games.

andermetalsh
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Valve could liberate the Source engine and provide paid support for game developers easily, they could still earn a LOT of cash.

t3g
t3g
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Yeah, people would still spend hundreds of dollars on gun skins on CS:GO or TF2 no matter if the game was libre or not.

t3g
t3g
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Yeah, people would still spend hundreds of dollars on gun skins on CS:GO or TF2 no matter if the game was libre or not.

t3g
t3g
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Yeah, people would still spend hundreds of dollars on gun skins on CS:GO or TF2 no matter if the game was libre or not.

Calinou
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Source has third-party proprietary dependencies, like Havok.

t3g
t3g
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Yeah, they cannot completely open up the old Source engine due to the middleware. Would be interesting if Source 2 is all in-house.