Need to Uninstall Trisquel

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Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Thank you so much for taking time to write all this info. All of you have been wonderful. :)

Misty
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if I understood this better I'd try it, though I really appreciate the advice. Maybe one day I'll have learned enough to do it with confidence. :)

Misty
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Hello again, I'm so glad for all the help. Now what I need after backing up the browser is step by step instructions. My browser is IceCat.

Magic Banana

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You can just backup all your files in your home folder (but the files in the trash bin). In the default Trisquel install, the "Backup" tool in the "System Settings" does that. Its defaults are good: compressed incremental backup, automatic remotion of the oldest backups when you run short of space, etc. You can have it display a weekly notification to remind you do to backups. And it is extremely simple to use, at least with GNOME's file manager: right click and choose what version of a file or what deleted files to restore. For instance you can do that with the ".mozilla" folder (its name starting with a dot, it is an hidden folder) and restore a previous configuration of your Web browser.

Trisquel Mini does not have this backup tool by default. But you can install it, e.g., using the "Synaptic Package Manager". The package is named "deja-dup".

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

hello Magic Banana, I appreciate your help. I do have a backup program on here, used it a few days ago.

When I was searching for files today I noticed something that makes me wonder, that's got me more confused. In the window where the folders are, in the right hand corner, there's text about free space and total space, says there's more than 2GB, but how can that be? When I was in the Trisquel room on IRC someone gave me a Terminal command that would show me the memory, which was less.

All I know is it seemed like the problem with the display during multitasking meant I didn't have enough memory. Being no good at tech is very frustrating, I'm amazed I got this far, but that's only because of help from many wonderful people who have taught me a lot, enough that I could maintain my computers fairly well.

When I could find the window with the folders for system settings, I looked in there for memory specs also, it showed I didn't have much memory, too, so I don't know what's going on. If I can find that again I'll look at that also.

There's something else that mystifies me- I click on some folders and got an "access denied" message. One folder I remember the name of was "lost+found". Other folders did that too. What the heck is going on here?

I humbly admit I don't know what I'm doing, that's why I'm here. For many years I tried to understand this stuff, but I keep trying. While I wait for replies, I'm reading the Command Line document, trying to find the commands I need.

Magic Banana

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You can do most (if not all) of your computing activities not touching the terminal. For example, if you want to understand what eats up space on your disk, you can use GNOME's "Disk Usage Analyzer" that shows you some kind of pie diagram, every slice corresponding to the space occupied by a folder (clicking on such a slice details the space occupied by its sub-folders). That said, command lines often are convenient. Especially when helping: it is far easier to write "execute this command" than "if you have this graphical application then click on this, then on that, then...".

I believe you are making confusion between two different kinds of memory: the disk and the RAM. Disks (such as hard drives, flash drives, memory cards, etc.) are permanent storage: switching off the computer, they are not emptied. This is where your files and the system files are. The RAM (as well as CPU cache, the whole being named "main memory") is a much faster kind of memory, e.g., 100 times faster to read/write. It is more expensive too. When executed, the programs (e.g., your movie player) are first copied from the disk to the RAM, where they also copy the data they work on (e.g., the movie itself). When the computer is switched off, the RAM is emptied.

I believe you have 2 GB of RAM but were looking at the space left on a partition of your hard drive.

In the GNOME edition of Trisquel, the "System Monitor" in the "System Settings" allows to graphically observe how much RAM is used (second diagram in the second tab, "Resources"). The last tab, "File Systems", gives the overall usage of the partitions of your disks. For a finer analysis, there is the "Disk Usage Analyzer" I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

By default, Trisquel Mini includes neither tool. I do not know if it includes alternatives. Anyway, you can install the two tools, e.g., from the "Synaptic Package Manager". The packages are named "gnome-system-monitor" and "baobab".

The folders that "mystify" you are normal. Some system folders can only be "traversed" by the system administrator, i.e., the user you become when your password is asked (e.g., when launching the "Synaptic Package Manager"). "lost+found" is used by some "filesystems" (the format files are stored in a partition of a disk). When such a filesystem is "checked", e.g., after an abrupt shutdown (what can entail a file loss), some files that are "found" are put in the folder "lost+found" (at the root of the filesystem) because their names and locations cannot be restored. So, if, "lost+found" is not empty, you can find in it data you have lost (e.g., because of a power failure).

I hope that you better understand your system thanks to my explanations. That said, to solve a specific problem, you had better precisely describe it (and only it), reply to what we ask you (such as output of commands) and not open parentheses inside parentheses. Personally, I still do not understand the problem you actually face.

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

sorry for causing confusion. Thank you for explaining. I understand it enough to know that ram is not the hard disk. When I looked at "Disk" I saw 160 GB, so it seems I don't even have 2 GB. More confusion, i know, and I know how frustrating it is giving tech support without seeing the user's system.

My problem is, I thought I had more disk space, now if I can find out how much RAM I have I know that'd be helpful. I was sure I had 2 GB. Please remember I don't see well and often follow the wrong line. When I remember how I found where to look for specs, I thought it said almost 2 GB, I looked up getting a screenshot in this program but it looked complicated.

unknowingly I installed programs beside each other, following advice on how to download, not realizing the new program didn't erase the old one.

I looked at the disk analyser, didn't quite understand it, then, while looking in a window with folders, I saw more numbers, maybe that was the RAM. When I first learned computers, I wrote some notes, what RAM is, what ROM is, and a few other things.

The main problem is, before getting Trisquel Mini, I had Trisquel and a GNOME shell, which worked well, till the display started getting scrambled, so I went to the Trisquel room at IRC and tried to properly read the specs on the Terminal after someone gave me a command to input. Then I was told I could not use Trisquel, so I got a command to install Mini, not realizing I was adding to what I had, instead of replacing.

On my own, I looked Synaptic, almost deleted Trisquel from there. I had tried uninstalling the shell, but didn't, so there's still fragments of it on here. When I log in, I still have the Trisquel screen. If it's still functional I could do screenshots.

Admittedly I don't know what I'm doing, that's why I'm here. I'm slowly learning, ty trial and error and error.

Thank you for your help, and again, I'm sorry for causing confusion..

Magic Banana

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Let's go "command line". Like I explained, it is easier to give clear instructions that way. Here is how you can read the amount of main memory (mainly the RAM but also the swap, i.e., an extension of the main memory onto the disk, hence much slower) that is available and used:
$ free -h
Here is how you can read the space that is available and used in each of the partitions of your disks:
$ df -h
Show us the outputs and we can explain them to you.

Like strypey explained you above, keyboard shortcuts to copy/paste from/to a (virtual) terminal are different. You can use as well, the right click. Or you can select the text to copy and middle click (simultaneous left and right click if your mouse/touchpad only has two buttons) to paste.

As far as I understand you, the command you were given through IRC is "sudo apt-get install trisquel-mini" and your system currently has both Trisquel's default system and Trisquel Mini's base. Am I right?

When a new package ("trisquel-mini" and its dependencies in the case we are discussing) is installed on Trisquel, it comes in addition to what is already installed. When a package is updated, it substitutes the previous version. You can have several desktop interfaces (e.g., Trisquel's default, GNOME Shell and Trisquel Mini's) installed in a same system. The one you want to use is to be chosen at the graphical login screen, i.e., the screen where you click on your user name and input your password. If you use Trisquel's or Trisquel's Mini default login screen, then it is an icon at the right of your user name (after you click it) that allows to choose a desktop interface.

So, you do not "have to" remove GNOME Shell. It does not eat up RAM if you do not run it. Removing GNOME Shell would only save a few MB in the system partition of your disk. It is not worth worrying about it. But you can remove GNOME Shell if you really want to save a few MB. To do so, you can right click on "gnome-shell" in the "Synaptic Package Manager", choose "Mark for Removal", click on the "Apply" button and confirm. Or, in a terminal:
$ sudo apt-get remove gnome-shell

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

you said, "As far as I understand you, the command you were given through IRC is "sudo apt-get install trisquel-mini" and your system currently has both Trisquel's default system and Trisquel Mini's base. Am I right??
Yes

thank you! here's the info:

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 993M 812M 181M 41M 21M 311M
-/+ buffers/cache: 479M 514M
Swap: 3.0G 172K 3.0G

Magic Banana

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You only have 1 GB of RAM (+ 3 GB of swap). Let us see the space left on your disk:
df -h

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev 486M 4.0K 486M 1% /dev
tmpfs 100M 1.1M 99M 2% /run
/dev/sda1 19G 5.1G 13G 30% /
none 4.0K 0 4.0K 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
none 5.0M 0 5.0M 0% /run/lock
none 497M 120K 497M 1% /run/shm
none 100M 8.0K 100M 1% /run/user
/dev/sda6 128G 212M 128G 1% /home

Magic Banana

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30% of your root partition (where the programs are installed) is occupied, i.e., 5.1 GB out of 19 GB. Freeing space is not "necessary". You can do it (I explained you two ways: from the "Synaptic Package Manager" or with 'sudo apt-get remove') though. For example to have less applications proposed in your main menu.

And only 1% of your /home partition (where the user files are) is occupied, i.e., 212 MB out of 128 GB.

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Thank you for explaining. This is a gret experience for me, thanks to all of you. :)

SuperTramp83

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> You can do most (if not all) of your computing activities not touching the terminal.

True, but then you risk dying from tedium! :P

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

LOL! I like Terminal, it's not as scary as it was when I first tried it so long ago. :)

Misty
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Heather, there is a folder .mozilla.

Misty
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Heather, hi again, thanks for the compliment. I was just curious about the denial message but I don't think I need to see those folders right now. I wouldn't make any changes, I'd just read the files, but it's not important at this time.

The only thing I haven't backed up yet is the browser. I have to look again at how to do that.

I hope you'll be on again soon. While I wait for replies I've been looking at the Command Line doc and experimenting with Terminal, and looking for any help files.

So I'm gonna try that fluxbox program, I have to copy the link and ut it on the flash drive, too, then when I have that and the browser backed up, I'm ready to take the plunge, thanks to you and the others who took the time to offer guidance here.

I still need to be sure I know what I'm doing, what to do after backing up, to be sure I replace the other programs, not add to them.

strypey
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Joined: 05/14/2015

"You are very good at tech. You are doing everything right."

+100!

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

What I'm trying to see is if Trisquel and GNOME are 2 separate programs(Desktops) but when I look at their dependencies they seem to need components from each other. Being new to how all this works, perhaps I'm not comprehending what a package is. I know it's not a program, so my next assumption is, it's a component. The dependencies seem to be componenents, which I know can't work alone..

Then I need to understand GNOME and GNOME Shell. If I am correct, GNOME is a program that can run alone, but not the shell. I remember what a shell is from my PC days.

I'll never be a good tech person but it's so fascinating, so I do my best to understand. As long as I'm using this tech stuff I will try to understand it.

Magic Banana

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GNOME is not one program. It is a set of programs. GNOME Shell is one of them: GNOME's user interface. Trisquel is a set of programs too. Some of them are GNOME programs (e.g., the GNOME System Monitor) and some of them are not (e.g., LibreOffice).

Individual programs are "packaged" so that they are easily installable/removable through a package manager. A program usually needs other packages to work: other programs that it executes, libraries (pieces of software needed by several programs), fonts, etc. Those are called dependencies. If you install, from the package manager, a program that depends on other packages, they will be automatically installed as well (otherwise the program you want would not work). If you remove, from the package manager, a package that is a dependency of some programs, those programs will be automatically removed as well (since they would not work anymore). In both cases, the package manager first lists the whole list of packages it will install/remove and asks for a confirmation.

Sets of programs such as "GNOME" or "Trisquel" also relate to packages ("gnome" and "trisquel"). They are called "meta-packages" because they do not install anything by themselves. They only depend on other packages: all the programs in the set (the whole GNOME desktop environment and Trisquel's default system), which therefore becomes easily installable at once.

If my last two paragraphs were clear enough, you should now understand that removing a program in Trisquel's default install automatically triggers the removal of the "trisquel" package. It is no big deal because "trisquel" (or "gnome" or "trisquel-recommended" or ...) is a meta-package: by itself, the "trisquel" package does not install anything. Removing "trisquel" only means you will not have the whole Trisquel's default install anymore. Notice however that it also means that, upgrading to Trisquel 8, you will not get the new applications added to the default install, i.e., added as dependencies of the "trisquel" package.

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Very interesting. I have to read this a few times to be sure I understand it as it relates to my situation. I really appreciate the explanations you've given. It'll take some time for all this to sink in. This has been a wonderfl adventure for me. Thank you again.. :)

Megver83
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Joined: 12/21/2015

You could try Parabola, its base installation is less than 1GB. Then you can install desktop environments, applications, games, etc. But be careful not to fulfill you memory again!

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

hi, thank you for your suggestion. For now I'm not sure what I will do, I may try a few different programs to see which one I like, if I can be sure I'm not adding to what I have, so I'd have to decide what to remove first.

Magic Banana

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In my opinion, a user who does not already feel at ease with GNU/Linux (and want to learn more) should not install Parabola.

Misty
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It seems to me a good idea to look at the specs for these programs everyone's suggesting, to see how much memory they require before installing, Due to the lack of RAM, then I can decide which OS I want. I'd like to try the others to see if I like than better than Trisquel Mini, for my poor old machine. I really like Trisquel, it will be on my Mac, it's in the VM there now. If I'm that concerned about RAM, maybe I should keep Trisquel Mini and not Trisquel?

The browser I want is Tor, and I want a secure messenger. From all I've read, Signal seems to be the most secure. Before doing anything, I'm gonna look up the specs.

My priority right now is to free up as much memory as I can, including cleaning up any fragments of the GNOME Shell, since I don't have much RAM to work with.

When that's all settled, I will make a new thread for help converting the Mac. I'm so tired of Crapple and their proprietary ways. To me, it's not worth the convenience. I wish others would feel that way, but it's their choice.

arielenter

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Misty, have you tried kmag as magnifier program? I wrote a post about it:

https://trisquel.info/es/forum/magnifier-follows-your-mouse-around-kmag-solved

maybe you might be interested on trying my approach.

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Hi arielenter, thank you for your suggestion. yes, before I got the GNOME Shell, I tried that and I had some trouble using it but I appreciate your idea. I may have to use it again if there's nothing else.Too bad I don't have as much memory as I did, the GNOME Shell was wonderful for accessibility.

I've seen your name in either the FSF room or the Trisquel room at IRC, when I used to go there. Since I read about the DDoS attacks on Freenode I've been afraid to go back. Some very nice people helped me in those rooms. I miss going there.

SuperTramp83

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Misty, you seem to worry a little bit too much. A DDoS attack on whatever is just a DDoS attack, it can not affect you, the security of your OS, or the privacy of the data you keep on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack#Distributed_attack

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Thank you for explaining that. Yes I admit I worry too much but I'd rather be safe than sorry, till I'm sure it's ok to go there. I really miss that place, so I will go back there soon. Thank you very much for all your help. :)

Misty
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It looks like I will have to use it. I saw your post and your code for customizing it. That may be very helpful to me but I need to know where to put the code after installing the program.

I tried to edit my first reply to you but for some reason the 'edit' option isn't there.

EDIT: OK I got kmag.

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

yeah, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. It would've been interesting to see what the logs say about it though.

I removed Trisquel Mini so I can try something else.

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Hello wonderful techies,

I want to try fluxbox, but before I do anything, I have questions. First, I want to be sure if it will install beside Trisquel or over it. If I had installed Trisquel Mini with the sudo apt-get command, would it have replaced it? Magic Banana asked me if that was the command I used, I said yes, but I'm not 100% sure. So I want to be sure I know what I'm doing. Way in back of my mind I remember thinking as I got the command, "this seems different than I expected." Usually I copy this stuff to an editor in case I needed it, which I may still have. A few days ago I looked at my files and saw a command I pasted there, but I didn't write what it was for, so I'm wondering if that was it and if so, explains why Mini came in alongside it.

Mangy Dog

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Misty :)

With Trisquel Mini you can install any other desktop environnements & you will keep ''Trisquel mini""which is in fact 3 desktop environnements =

1/Trisquel Mini
2/LXDE
3/Openbox

You will not loose any files either
You just have to choose which one you want to use at the loggin prompt ,just click on the Trisquel Logo

These manuals here are in french but show all the desktops environnements availlable on Trisquel 7
https://trisquel.info/fr/wiki/syst%C3%A8me-dexploitation

Misty
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Joined: 03/22/2016

Thank you. I noticed when I had Mini, I had 2 others that came in with it.

Magic Banana

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Try to understand https://trisquel.info/forum/need-uninstall-trisquel?page=2#comment-104287

The "trisquel" meta-package only defines a set of packages: the default Trisquel system. Same thing for "trisquel-mini". In the Synaptic package manager, you can look at the "Properties" of any package. There is a button for that. Among the properties, one tab deals with the "Installed files". You can see that a meta-package, such as "trisquel" or "trisquel-mini", only installs two documentation files. However, such a meta-package "depends" on other packages that are installed if the meta-package is installed. Those "dependencies" are listed in the eponymous tab.

You can install *any* package (e.g., "fluxbox") and it will not remove "trisquel". You can also remove packages from the default system: "trisquel" or "trisquel-mini" will be removed but it only means you do not have the default system anymore.

Misty
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I think I understand what you're saying. Thanks. :)

Misty
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I checked fluxbox out, didn't like it much, removed it. It's good there's many choices.

Mangy Dog

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Misty
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I went to that link, not sure I was seeing where to install the whole program, so I'll look again.

Misty
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I've come to a conclusion about this computer- as it's been sugested to me before by at least one person, I need a better machine. Based on my needs, the programs I tried aren't as good as the GNOME Shell, so I need more memory to run it. Although my Mac has enough, it's not libre, but it'd be great as an offline backup, or emergency machine, so I'm working out a plan to buy something that's closer to being Freedom friendly. This machine could be a backup in case something happens to the Libre one. It's too frustrating using this setup, but I'll have to for now till the new one comes.

I'll check out KDE for this one, and see how I like that but I really liked the GENOME Shell and miss it a LOT.

If there was a way to upgrade this one and take the blobs and crapware out, I'd do it, but it's old and probably not worth it.

The one I want has 8 GB RAM, if I remember right, it was at ThinkPenguin.

Misty
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OK so while I'm still using this old low memory machine, I will need a few things, all as secure as possible, that I'd only use one at a time:

a chat program. I saw a message from SuperTramp about hexchat being better than pidgin for better security and less bloatware. Though I like Pidgin, if it's not very secure, I'll stay away from it.

I'll either keep Tor or IceCat, though it'd be interesting to try others I've seen mentioned that may be good. Browser security is VERY important to me- keeping the trackers, spies, etc. out. Ublock Origin would be great to add on, but Tor developers say not to, which I understand. If I'm that concerned about letting sneaky stuff in, and Ublock would block them so I don't have to worry that they snuck in before I could get NoScript to block them before the page loads, then I may need to either add it to Tor anyway or return to IceCat or similar.Tor changed their fonts- they're terrible for me. This may turn me away from it.

Then it comes down to an OS.

I may edit this later in case I need to add something important.

SuperTramp83

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>I saw a message from SuperTramp about hexchat being better than pidgin for better security and less bloatware. Though I like Pidgin, if it's not very secure, I'll stay away from it.

Pidgin has had its fair share of security vulnerabilities. Apparently the libpurple is not considered very secure. That being said, I use pidgin for xmpp/IRC, latest version, apparmored and firejailed, safe enough :)

Misty
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Oh ok. Thanks. I've been reading a few threads here about security, it seems among the regulars who offer advice, you have answered many of them. I really appreciate your advice.

If I get it through Synaptic, I hope I'll get the latest version. When I had it, I don't remember what version it was, or when I downloaded it.

on IRC, I met some good people in the Trisquel room and the FSF room, 3 of them I remembered their names, are in this forum, very helpful. I couldn't have gotten this far without all the tech support I got. :D