Desktop computer by Leah Rowe | Libreboot 9020 SFF free or not?
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Hello everyone.
Please tell me if this device Libreboot 9020 SFF can be considered a libre desktop computer or not?
I found that the site https://minifree.org reports the installation of an AMD Radeon RX 6400 video card, but it is not listed on h-node.org, then an Intel AX210 network card is installed, why can't I install this https://ryf.fsf.org/index.php/products/TPE-N300PCIED2 and install free drivers?
That is, instead of reducing the number of blob objects, they increase them...
The question arises, why were the sites https://ryf.fsf.org/ and https://h-node.org/ created if the developers who claim that they are FOR free software ignore the recommended equipment and install what they want?
They took to move to reduce blobs rather than completely eliminate them.
https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html#blob-reduction-policy
Unfortunately, this is somewhat of a survival aspect as the amount of hardware that can still be run entirely on free software is getting very thin by the day. It has been almost 15 years since the last processor released could be loaded without the management engine and blobs - this stuff is aging.
This is a case of a compromise is better than total defeat. What use is sticking exactly to the morals if you cannot do anything with them? I do hope we get back to a state of fully libre hardware but it seems like we are in the darkest part of the night.
Hi Jabjabs.
Thank you very much for your answer. I agree with you, you reason logically!
That's why I was wondering why not update the new Libreboot 9020 desktop computer with SFF modules from h-node.org, ok, let's say the developer compromises (not everyone supports it), but why does he continue to make the computer he sells to users worse? I am not a developer and I do not have a table with the number of blob objects of desktop computers Coreboot, Libreboot, GnuBoot, it seems to me that if we follow the logic of compromises Leah Rowe, then the user can buy more modern and powerful equipment, for example Librem Mini https://puri.sm/products/librem-mini/ or an even more powerful desktop computer from 3mdeb (MSI PRO Z790-P WiFi DDR5) https://shop.3mdeb.com/shop/dasharo-supported-hardware/msi-pro-z790-p-wifi-ddr5-with-dasharo-entry-subscription-full-pc-build/
some more blob objects some less what's the difference...
If computational power is more important to you than freedom, then you are covered, most of the world fits that *standard*.
There are also quite a few semi-free options already and places to find out about them, but I think this forum is not it, unless you want to talk about getting rid of blobs, of course.
>"If computational power is more important to you than freedom"
It should be noted that these new offerings from minifree.org are not about "computational power". Those CPU's were first put on the market in 2013-2014. They are going to be extremely low powered when compared to modern cpu's from the past couple of years. Anyone buying this kind of device and thinking they are going to be handling very heavy workloads may find themselves disappointed that the machine is just not capable of doing the job.
The good thing is that minifree.org is offering a couple of machines with up to 32gb of ram, so if your main bottleneck was lack of ram but not lack of cpu, then these machines should be able to help you.
Very good to learn those details, thank you andyprough!
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> They are going to be extremely low powered when compared to modern cpu's from the past couple of years.
I have exactly zero knowledge about processing power, I would appreciate if you can educate me a little on that. When I search something like i5-1240p (which is in my newest laptop) vs. i7-4790k, I land on https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-1240P/2384vsm1811937 that says i5-1240p is slightly faster.
I don't know how reliable the numbers given for Thermal Dissipation Power (TDP) are, but I found 28W for the i5-1240p as compared with 88W for the i-4790K. I guess you did not mean "low powered" in that sense.
I also have a computer with i7-10510U, which according to the same website is much slower that i7-4790k, but the TDP is 15W. I measured the power consumption with a meter, running as a file server without any graphical environement, it consumes around 10W. With a graphical environment, it is significantly above (I can't remember well, perhaps a bit over 20W).
While I like my new laptop for its 17 inch screen, I have regularly (can be more than once a day) had Xorg crash due to Intel graphics drivers issues. I also have the MATE session restarted as soon as I open a file in gimp. Now I tried using GNOME with wayland, so far no similar problem, but I still haven't found a way to make window placement as efficient as dwm, which is a pain. So I have the feeling that newer computers also come with problems.
I personally like having every window maximized on a different workspace (always the same: the text editor on the first one, the email client on the second one, etc.) and, for the applications I almost always use, opened right after logging in: I have them in the startup applications and https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/16/auto-move-windows/ moves them to the "right" workspace. I then use keyboard shortcuts I simplified (Alt+1 to Alt+9) to switch between the workspace (Alt+1 to switch to the text editor, Alt+2 to switch to the email client, etc.).
>"I personally like having every window maximized on a different workspace (always the same: the text editor on the first one, the email client on the second one, etc.) and, for the applications I almost always use, opened right after logging in: I have them in the startup applications and https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/16/auto-move-windows/ moves them to the "right" workspace. I then use keyboard shortcuts I simplified (Alt+1 to Alt+9) to switch between the workspace (Alt+1 to switch to the text editor, Alt+2 to switch to the email client, etc.)."
You're basically using DWM on Gnome.
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Thanks for the tips.
I also like to have the whole screen space used for window contents but I occasionnally need 2 or 3 windows to be visible at the same time. I now found that forge automatically rearranges windows when a window is added or removed. The way it places windows by default is a little different from dwm but still very good to me.
I configured Super+1 to Super+9 to switch workspace, and Super+Shift+1 to Super+Shift+9 to move to a window to another workspace, which is what I am used to. However, moving a window to another workspace also switches to that workspace, unlike with dwm.
I managed to customize the top panel the way I like using gnome-shell-extension-appindicator, improved workspace indicator and icon hider updated.
>"While I like my new laptop for its 17 inch screen, I have regularly (can be more than once a day) had Xorg crash due to Intel graphics drivers issues."
I haven't had that at all. Haven't you been using the latest Linux-libre kernels from jxself? They've got the latest Intel graphics stuff pretty well worked out.
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Haven't you been using the latest Linux-libre kernels from jxself? They've got the latest Intel graphics stuff pretty well worked out.
I tried the Trisquel and the linux-libre kernels, same problem with both. From the backtrace I posted in https://trisquel.info/fr/forum/xorg-crashes, it looks like the issue is between intel driver and glibc. Making a proper bug report for this would be useful but I need to understand how to get debug symbols in order to provide proper information.
However, if the problem does not occur with wayland (to be confirmed) and is limited to 12th gen Intel CPUs, developers' time might be better spent for something else.
Which Linux-libre kernel version are you using? As I said, you have to use the latest.
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I have had the problem with the latest linux-libre kernel. I would need to do more testing, but I can't reproduce this at will.
Now I mostly use GNOME on wayland and I have it work nearly like dwm, so I am quite happy with it. My only issue is that auto-type does not work with keepassxc, and hints to make it work don't fix the problem. There is the abrowser extension that can work with abrowser but it seems not to work with how I filled entries in keepassxc.
If you have this Xorg crashing problem with Linux-libre 6.9 or above, you should open a thread with jxself. Maybe I and a couple of others using 12th generation Intel processors could see if we can replicate your problem.
Hello Avron.
Thanks for your answer from a real user, it’s better than any tables))
I saw here on the forum you wrote about your not very good experience using the Vikings D8 (Coreboot) that this computer did not work stably. Currently the Vikings D-8 and Vikings D-16 are not for sale and the seller said that he will not contact these computers and sell them.
Optiplex 9020 SFF, i7-4790 (Libreboot) is a compromise from Leah Rowe, as these computers are not FSF approved if I'm not mistaken. I don't see them here https://ryf.fsf.org/index.php/categories/workstations-and-servers. I see Optiplex 9010 Coreboot https://doc.coreboot.org/mainboard/dell/optiplex_9010.html. I also don’t see the Intel HD 4600 video card installed in the Optiplex 9020 SFF in the h-node.org list. Perhaps the h-node database is not complete??
But there is another problem, that it is difficult to install a good video card since the power supply is 75W, and for example the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 6G video card has a power of 250W, etc.
If we talk about desktop computers with a large amount of memory, then this is the MSI PRO Z790-P WiFi DDR5 with Dasharo or ASUS KGPE-D16, but this is now a very problematic mother card, etc..
There is a Librem Mini V2 (i7-10510U) Coreboot, yes it has 15W, users report that the computer gets hot and they use a stand to improve airflow. Intel UHD Graphics 620 video card and it is listed on h-node.org.
In general, it is a good idea for an enthusiast to make a table of all existing libre computers and indicate the number of blob objects in them, computing power and other data.
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> I saw here on the forum you wrote about your not very good experience using the Vikings D8 (Coreboot) that this computer did not work stably.
Trisquel 10 was unusable, due to problems with graphics crashing, so I had changed to Debian at some point. However, Trisquel 11 was working well.
I stopped using that computer because at some point, it was shutting down quickly after power on, maybe due to water cooling not working properly. I need to change this, but I have no experience so I would need a workspace to do it slowly, but I don't have that. So now that computer is just there powered off.
Thanks for your feedback, and how does Librem Mini V2 perform (your experience)?
And have you tried installing Gnuboot on Vikings D8 (ASUS KCMA-D8) https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gnuboot/gnuboot-0.1-rc3/roms/ and working or was it Coreboot all the time?
As for the i5-1240p you mentioned, what kind of laptop is it?
As I understand it, you have come a long way to choose a desktop computer))
A few years ago I found out about the POWER9 when I was reading the libreboot page. I decided to move away from the x68 architecture and move to Power ISA and other RISC architectures including ARM (Acorn RISC machines) and maybe RISC-V in the future. Hopefully Solid Silicon will be able to develop cheaper hardware that fully respects users freedom. Still waiting for the X1 and S1.