experience with Trisquel mini

63 respuestas [Último envío]
OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

Hi my first post!

I am trying various linux distros and configurations, and I'm currently trying Trisquel mini. I will post separately about larger issues, and what I'm really looking for, but for this topic I thought I would stick to issues I experienced with Tmini.

I have only tried the full Trisquel briefly so far, some of thse probably apply to that too, some will be specific to the lxde mini environment.

So this thread is by way of feedback, while i'm interested in fixes for these things, i'm not VERY interested unless the issue also affects mainline Trisquel as I have determind that mini won't suit me as a main install (maybe ok for my music player netbook though).

In no particular order:

* Synaptic won't start from the menu, instead of asking for a password it just fails to start. sudo synaptic in terminal works fine.

* Icecat and Icedove available in synaptic, but not in add/remove software!

* no gui method available to set the clock time or the time zone

* no disk management utility (easily corrected)

* lots of errors using startup disk creator and disks (once i downloaded disks), managed to make a usb live disk eventually, but it was a big contrast with Mint, where it worked first time.

* descriptions in add/remove software inadequate. especially need guidance on whetehr a given application / package will integrate well with the currect system or require screeds of dependencies. I downloaded APTonCD and it seemed to want half of KDE as well, had i been warned I might have looked for a different solution.

Software Updater was failing until I did an update from terminal, then it came right.

In general mini falls into the trap of most linuxes I have tried - that is to say it left me with the impression that the guis provided are afterthoughts, not serious tools. I hope it can be improved so as not to put off others less determined than myself.

Anyway thats all the problems I can remember now, if i think of more i'll add them.

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

btw you should list all these bugs here:
https://trisquel.info/en/project/issues
so the developers can try to fix them

"I am trying various linux distros and configurations"
see:
https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.en.html
and:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy

have you run sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
from the terminal?
as this may correct some of the problems

"* lots of errors using startup disk creator and disks (once i downloaded disks), managed to make a usb live disk eventually, but it was a big contrast with Mint, where it worked first time."

its not rely a solution but there is a alternative program:
https://notabug.org/tomlukeywood/FreeNetBootin

"* Icecat and Icedove available in synaptic, but not in add/remove software!"
this is weird i only just noticed this as i normally install from the terminal or synaptic...

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

thanks.

* yes GNU/linux, I know I just forgot/mistyped.
* yes I updated from the terminal as you suggest but it only fixed the software updater gui.
* Freenetbootin looks challenging to install for my current level of knowledge. I'm not averse to compiling things, i just haven't had much success with it so far and I don't have unlimited time to throw at it. I had tried to install unetbootin, but sourceforge appears to be down and it isn't in the trisquel repo.
* I'm not sure I undersand the system well enough yet to report bugs formally, but i'll look, thanks.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

Is syanptic not loading from menu the only error? I find synaptic more complicated and dangerous then using apt-get lmao, so I never use it. But please file a bug report on it.

Mint is really the only distro with a real working usb boot creator I've found. Ubuntu's has the same problems and Fedora gave up on theirs years ago... Use gparted(a gui app) first to delete the partition and create new fat32 one, then load startupcreator to burn the iso. Not something a normal user ever has a need for, and a small convenience to give up for a spyware free distro.

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

try running this command and see if it can be run!:
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install qmake && sudo apt-get install libqt4-dev && sudo apt-get install git && git clone https://notabug.org/tomlukeywood/freenetbootin.git && cd freenetbootin && make && sudo ./unetbootin

GNUser
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/17/2013

You could give him a break and tell him to install unetbootin from the repos, its a lot easier for a newbie :-P
I know you did a good job with freenetbootin but c'mon... unetbootin is not that bad :-P

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

ok i did not know it was in trisquels repo's

so yeah you can just find unetbootin i add/remove applications

GNUser
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/17/2013

Usually if something is in Debian's main repo it will be in Ubuntu's and Mint's and Trisquel's repos as well.
If i am wrong please correct me :)

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

I have been looking for a way to install unetbootin for days, i really don't care which version, i'd be using downloaded images anyway.

however I can't find it in the trisquel repo, and sourceforge appears to be broken so I haven't managed to get it.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

i tried again. I have been looking in synaptic and unetbootin doesn't show. maybe i am searching wrong? i just tried add/remove applications again and unetbootin is there. why are the 2 methods different? aren't they both searching the same repo?

now i have a gui glitch preventing me from actually selecting it...

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

have you run sudo apt-get update?

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

yes, several times for various reasons since i first had this issue.

i also looked in the web index for the trisquel repo and couldn't find it, os i think it isn't really there and the entry in add remove software is spurious, possibly related to earlier attempts to install it?

any idea about that error when following your freenetbootin install instructions?

it gives me E: Unable to locate package qmake

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

oh sorry that was a mistake by me try it now

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install qt4-qmake && sudo apt-get install qt5-qmake && sudo apt-get install libqt4-dev && sudo apt-get install git && git clone https://notabug.org/tomlukeywood/freenetbootin.git && cd freenetbootin && make && sudo ./unetbootin
OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

it got a lot further this time, but ended with bash: make: command not found

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

ok try now!

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install qt4-qmake && sudo apt-get install qt5-qmake && sudo apt-get install libqt4-dev && sudo apt-get install make cmake && sudo apt-get install git && git clone https://notabug.org/tomlukeywood/freenetbootin.git && cd freenetbootin && make && sudo ./unetbootin
OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

it objected because the cloned git was already there so i removed it and recloned it and ran the rest but i get this:

/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt4/bin/qmake DEFINES\ +=\ NOSTATIC RESOURCES\ -=\ unetbootin.qrc -o Makefile unetbootin.pro
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt4/bin/uic unetbootin.ui -o ui_unetbootin.h
g++ -c -m64 -pipe -O2 -Wall -W -D_REENTRANT -DNOSTATIC -DNOSTATIC -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_GUI_LIB -DQT_NETWORK_LIB -DQT_CORE_LIB -DQT_SHARED -I/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++-64 -I. -I/usr/include/qt4/QtCore -I/usr/include/qt4/QtNetwork -I/usr/include/qt4/QtGui -I/usr/include/qt4 -I. -I. -I. -o main.o main.cpp
make: g++: Command not found
make: *** [main.o] Error 127

i've been pretty much following up to here but this is beyond me

Legimet
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/10/2013

sudo apt-get install build-essential

Magic Banana

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/24/2010

"build-essential" is for making .deb packages. Here only "g++" needs to be installed.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

making .deb packages is something i'd like to learn to do.

i wondered if g++ was just another missing package

does build-essential include g++?

a thought- since trisquel is all about software freedom, and the whole point of free software is that you can modify and rebuild it - would it be good if standard tools for compiling were included in trisquel by default?

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

i installed g++ and ran make etc and freenetbootin is running

it warned me extlinux not found, but i can presumably get it if I need EXT2

thank-you! i will keep this thread as an example for future attempts to compile things though no doubt the procedure varies...

can i ask at this point, how do I make shortcuts for menus or panel etc so i can strat the application easily? there must be a guide somewhere - feel free just to point/link

also can i move the compiled app? on osx if i want to move an app to another computer i can simply copy the app (which is really a folder containing binaries and supporting files) to the other machine and run it - is there an equivalent procedure on GNU/Linux? it seems much harder to know where the actual binaries are, and one can't just double click the app folder to run it -but maybe that's just my ignorance.

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

"also can i move the compiled app?"
yes

also the binarys for most of your installed programs are
in /bin or /usr/bin

you can double click on the application to run it btw
if you go into the folder you should see a program called
unetbootin try double clicking on that

Magic Banana

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/24/2010

does build-essential include g++?

It does. You can find that information in the "Dependencies" tab of the "Properties" of a package in the "Synaptic package manager" or by using 'apt-cache depends' in a terminal.

Legimet
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/10/2013

You know you can install multiple packages in one command, right? For example:
apt-get install qt4-qmake libqt4-dev git

tomlukeywood
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/05/2014

i know its just this way if theres a missing package it will at least install the others if not the one that failed

Magic Banana

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/24/2010

Your chain of commands stops as soon as there is a problem. To keep on installing even after a problem, "&&" must be turned into ";".

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

thanks! i'll try this when I get time for another session with it. Clear instructions like that from the actual source of the software makes things much easier. I can follow what the commands are doing but I wouldn't have known them myself.

Of course to really make it easy may I suggest you make a .deb file download from your site?

if the Startup Disk Creator tool included with Trisquel is known to not work properly, then why not just replace it in the distro with freenetbootin?

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

so is this the right place to reply even though i alreday replied to later posts on this fork of the thread?

anyway when i tried the above it gives me E: Unable to locate package qmake

after a bunch of other stuff.

EDIT this totally didn't display where i thought it would in the thread, i don't understand how this forum threading is supposed to work...

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

another minor annoyance with trisquell mini, when inserting a usb stick a dialog comes up asking me what to do, i couldn't find a way to set a preference and then not have the dialog pop up every time.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

I'm downloading trisquel mini now to test it out, but doesn't lxde come with pcmanfm? From within there should be an option to stop that. This happens on all distros not just trisquel mini, and a good idea to shut off if just for security reasons. Also turn off thumbnails.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

So I just tried the trisquel mini. You're right the startupdisk creator was usless for me and the 64 bit image. I got all sorts of weird crazy errors after errors when trying to boot with it. Unetbootin is the way to go, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised because the ubuntu and fedora disk creators never worked for me either...lol To be honest the only time i ever need to create one, is from windows to install linux...

The synaptic works just fine for me from the menu, I don't know why it doesn't work for you.

To stop the automount, click the file cabinet icon in the bottom left screen to open the file manager. Then go to edit, preferences, volume manager and uncheck all the boxes next to automount. Then for extra security go to display and uncheck show thumbnails for files.

In the add remove programs, for most of the programs they have links to their websites for better descriptions. Icecat is indeed not in there, not sure why. You should report this. I use abrowser.

To set the clock/time, load up dconf editor from the menu, in system tools, then hit ctrl+f and type clock to find the advanced clock settings.

I'm not sure what you mean by disk management utility? Trisquel mini comes with pcman and gparted.

Please post if you think of any more.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

I
have installed the full trisquel now so can't test mini, but i didnt
find gparted,from memory i had to install it.

there is a utility just called disks it is useful and in the system
settings of the full trisquel, it is in the repo and can be installed in
mini but is not there by default.

it was sometimes buggy and sometimes worked, i think depending on other
factors i don't now remember.

at first i had several other things that would normally require
authentication fail to launch from gui with no error , but the only one
that persisted like that was synaptic.

once i installed MATE synaptic would launch from the menu, just not from
the trisquel mini menu

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

I thought gparted was already installed, easy enough to install.

I still don't know what you mean by disk manager? is pcman and gparted not enough? Oh i see the disks utility. Never even knew it was there now I know what you mean. very useful. tks for telling me about it! its awesome! so long command prompt!

lxde is about saving resources so it doesn't have all the bells and whistles a full gnome or KDE desktop will have.

I didn't have any problems with synaptic loading from menu in lxde. Synaptic only asks me for a password when loading if I change my user from admin to standard in user settings.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

i'm in gnome full trisquel now, but i can't find that user setting....

moxalt
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/19/2015

Can you please reply to the actual posts themselves? It's annoying to have to
sift through and find the post you're replying to, and even harder when working
through email, as am I and no doubt others too.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

I'm a bit unclear what you are requesting and in which case it didn't happen. If everyone replies to the post most relevant to their reply then the latest post forks off all over the place, doesn't that make it harder? Nevertheless I thought that's what we were doing...

moxalt
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/19/2015

I was requesting that instead of replying to posters replying to you by making
entirely new posts, you actually follow up and reply those posts. It is far
easier to follow the chain of conversation when the replies are actually
threaded, as opposed to having to find the post being referred to. It's a tiny
thing.

It may, of course, just be a problem with my mail client's threading, or
something. Can't be bothered to check out the website.

moxalt
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/19/2015

You have actually been doing this in your conversation with tomlukeywood and
gnuser below. As of my whining, you had made a few posts addressing people
across the board, which did actually make it hard to follow.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

go to system settings, then click user accounts... ?

are you sure you are not just looking to find problems with trisquel? lol

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

"go to system settings, then click user accounts... ?"

I see it - I wasn't sure if you meant there or somewhere else. The problem earlier, and also just now was that the pane wouldn't unlock, it would appear to but the options remained greyed out. I just succeeded in unlocking it - not sure what changed.

"are you sure you are not just looking to find problems with trisquel? lol"

Yes of course I am, when you contemplate spending (tens of?) thousands of hours of your life using something you want to know the problems before getting in too deep. That said, I don't think I'm being any harsher than I would be on any other system.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

changing your user account setting might of been what changed. although I'm not sure what you mean the pane wouldn't unlock.

and fair enough, any other issues?

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

when the pane is locked certain things are greyed out - I would click the unlock button and enter password, the lock icon would change, but the greyed out items would remain greyed out. At least think that was what was happening, I'm applying hindsight to my confusion now I see how the panel is supposed to work. Anyway it works now.

remaining issues:

* why does add remove software show a different set of available packages from synaptic?
* cpu craziness, now only caused by libre JS in icecat, but earlier caused by a wider range of things. Updating the kernel seems to have helped, but oddly not all at once it wasn't like flipping a switch it just improved gradually after updating the kernel.

the next 2 are not trisquel issues, but more general:

* not a bug as such, but with MATE and Gnome both installed the panel applet in MATE that lets you control network connections is invisible. I believe this is a known conflict, and wouldn't a be long term problem as I intend to pick one or the other, but if anyone knows how I can switch net connections on and off and pick wifi networks etc in MATE without that applet I'd love to hear about it as a short term workaround.

* the impossible-to-grab resize corners in windows using GTK2 really bugs me, I'm aware of the alt right click alternative, which is great, but not so good if controlling the computer one handed while holding a guitar and leaning across a table, as I often need to do. this is a point against MATE and for Gnome3 fallback, I think, though it seems to depend a bit on the app. Also MATE in Mint seems better with the corners, so what is different there? Other than that I think I prefer MATE but there are pros and cons.

there are quite a few more issues, that are not bugs as such but general issues with GNU/Linux common to all or many distros. Not sure if I should get into that as I'm finding I get better answers to obvious small bugs than to general "why make it like that?" type issues.

I guess I'm concerned that if after much work if I get a solid trisquel install, and manage to work out a system to transfer it to multiple/new computers (looking into remastersys or similar) that the hardware support issue of using only free software may bite me in the future - however it is now mostly behaving on my laptop, though it was totally not usable on first install.

So there's a defined issue, why does a system that behaves fine running off a live USB stick seem to have major hardware issues when actually installed on the same system?

Having got a setup I like then being able to backup and transfer it easily between machines or reinstall a clean system with all my apps in place on the same machine is very important to me, and I haven't really tried it yet.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

further to my last long post:

specific issue that is probably multiple issues.

example: I want to install unetbootin from the repo.

* It doesn't show up in synaptic
* it shows up in add/remove applications
* when I click on the check box the cursor becomes a spinny wheel indefinitely until I quit add/remove applications.
* sudo apt-get install unetbootin doesn't work (E: Unable to locate package unetbootin)

related issue

icecat doesn't show in add/remove applications but does in synaptic.

Legimet
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/10/2013

unetbootin isn't in the repos.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015
lembas
Desconectado/a
se unió: 05/13/2010

That add/remove thing is a useless toy imho. Use synaptic or the command line.

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

I agree, I would urge the distro maintainers to remove useless or broken tools as they waste new users time and give a bad impression. For example the non functional startup disk creator could be replaced with freenetbootin (I'm assuming it works, i haven't actually used it yet)

A significant proportion of GUI tools across all GNU/linux distros seem to be broken or useless in some way. It is really a problem as it reinforces GNU/linus users prejudice that GUIs are bad and reinforces everyone else's impression that GNU/linux is generally broken.

moxalt
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/19/2015

Graphical package management is a useless toy imho. Use the command line.

cooloutac
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/27/2015

So everything is running good now, glad to hear!

OSXrefugee
Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/18/2015

well you could say that, if you were putting a very positive spin on it. I would say rather that the things which were immediately and obviously broken on install are now fixed, after many hours work.

There's loads of things I need to do I haven't even tried yet... I have barely started looking at backups and redistribution tools, and I haven't addressed security at all.

Still progress is certainly being made, and I really appreciate the help!

Most of my issues are not actually with Trisquel specifically, but GNU/linux in general.

EDIT: that possibly reads as a bit harsh on GNU/linux, many of my issues go deeper than that and ultimately stem from the general human tendency to make systems more complex than they can maintain. Other OSs are by no means immune...

Magic Banana

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 07/24/2010

I have barely started looking at backups

Déjà-Dup is a breeze. It is in Trisquel's default, not Trisquel Mini's (but you can install it with the package manager).

moxalt
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/19/2015

What? I haven't seen this Deja-Dup thing- oh, wait, is that the option in
System Settings labelled Backup?