Let's talk surveillance (and an experiment in posting)

Post this way in this thread:

Topic: Why isn't the public totally outraged about the surveillance being done against them? We have had several whistle blowers already, so there is no debate whether or not it is happening, right? Why does the public not seem to care about this?

@root_vegetable

That is funny, Facebook was one of the first things to pop into my head while I was writing my first post.

I don't know if we are living in the age of Orwell...yet! I just finished reading 1984 (last time I read it was 30 years ago!). In the book 1984 society had already reached the point where it wasn't really possible to change anything. Our abilities to change, at least in theory, are much greater in our society.

I love that statement by, I think it was Snowden:

"To say you don't care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say!"(paraphrased)

I would say that people are ignorant, but what about the whistleblowers? How can people ignore that!?!

It will take more time to respond to your entire post. In the meantime I will point out that I did not miss the point of the book at all. Perhaps you missed the point of my statement:

"In the book 1984 society had already reached the point where it wasn't really possible to change anything."

There is a big difference between being brainwashed to the point of thinking there is no problem, and:
1.) Not being able to fight back without fear of imminent torture and death if you escape the brainwashing.
2.)Being able to fight back without fear of imminent torture and death if you escape the brainwashing.

Number 1 describes the 1984 society
Number 2 describers our society

In the 1984 society, those few (the resistance) that could still disagree with their government, faced certain torture and death if captured. That is not true, yet, in our society. If it were, Richard Stallman would have been killed already.

I understand your points about how people are not even aware of the extent to which they have been brainwashed and all that this unawareness entails. Of course, this aspect of the 1984 society is obvious right from the start of the book. We haven't reached the same degree yet. We still have people that advocate freedom. There are probably people talking about freedom on Facebook. Most people have some very good ideas about what Freedom is. They just don't think technology is impinging on their Freedom in a decisive way.

Our problem is we do not have enough de-programmed people that care about free software issues. Calling that an Orwellian World is premature. We are not there yet--but we are heading there fast. Now is the time to do something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World#Comparisons_with_George_Orwell.27s_Nineteen_Eighty-Four
This looks for me like a better representation of what's happening today. My experience:

Nobody told be about GNU until like the ending of 2010 and even then it wasn't about introducing me to the philosophy of freedom and sharing, but practical benefits like customization, security, no EULA instead. The good thing is, that's when I got interested in computers and when I kept on dealing with annoyances like desktop theme changing itself to a mix of two for no reason. That's how I realized that nothing has to be perfect and still can be useful with some sacrifices. But his would drive most people insane, they'd instantly assume that if a component is bugged, the whole operating system has to be impossible to use. I guess I was lucky to find out about the philosophy on my own.
Find a multi-platform software and see that most likely it won't even mention GNU despite being made for it.

Entertainment is so important to most people I know that games became a drug for them. The addiction is so huge they see nothing wrong with restrictions such as the necessity of having an internet connection or a unique account when playing or not having any physical copies. The same applies to movies and music - we came to the point where one would sell his kidney if the EULA said so (without reading it of course) just to make a megacorporation let the poor person use their software or play something.

I have nothing against games that behave like an interactive movie - I put them in a console or an emulator and play without restrictions (I have a console that had DRM initially, but someone disabled it for me). The problem is when the game clearly behaves like software - and most, if not all, current ones do and when a console behaves more like a PC (has an operating system rather than just BIOS) rather than a movie player (for instance the one that you could put a VHS in, click "play" and enjoy). The addictied people have to play every new game that comes out just like they would have to smoke cigarettes. I'm lucky to be the one that enjoys replaying an 18 year old game using different tactics.

To them it's like: no matter how restrictive a license could be, software will be used if it's more convenient than its alternatives. In my classes I was recommended a logical circuit builder for experimenting before the practical construction of circuits that is non-free. Never mind, I found a free alternative, which only downside I noticed is that the simulated circuits look more ugly. The problem is for the others, though - they accepted the non-free one as if there was nothing wrong. I'm worried since I've heard about how comapnies felt into a vendor lock-in. Or how much trouble a person had when tried registering (or transferring a license of) an old version of a popular non-free photo manipulation software.

"Why isn't the public totally outraged about the surveillance being done against them?"
Most likely because they never experienced its negative outcomes (fortunately this applies to me so far) and assume nothing wrong is going to happen.

root_vegetable: "Mass surveillance could have come about regardless of how many people are using free software. It isn't the solution, it just alleviates some of the symptoms. For instance people in China use more free software but the state is still very harmful, more so than in the West.
The real solution is direct democracy and engagement in political processes. If citizens had control of their lives (and I don't mean being able to control what's on their PC) then there would be more resistance, and accountability."

Agreed. Well said!