Making Ubuntu Friendly website distribution agnostic/merging with h-node.org?
- Inicie sesión o regístrese para enviar comentarios
Hi,
I'd like to invite anyone interested in hardware support for Gnu/Linux
to comment on this blog post:
https://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/ubuntu-that-was-friendly
Keep in mind h-node.org has very different resources/goals, and be nice
when writing there ;)
F.
--
Fabián Rodríguez
http://fsf.magicfab.ca
I am a member!
If I would be an Ubuntu user and didn't care about software freedom then this would be awesome.
This database seems to be a good thing for Ubuntu but, alas, only for Ubuntu. How can any other distro benefit from it? Its hard, I think. Luckily there is H-node! Even non-free distros can benefit from it ("If it works according to h-node, then it should work with distro X too.").
So, this is some nice candy for Ubuntu users but otherwise not of much use. Maybe it can introduce more people to hardware support testing and when those people find free software and h-node...
Let's keep our hopes up.
This is a bad idea and will work to further muddy the waters and people will buy hardware that's Linux compatible but not freedom aka Linux-libre compatible...
Aaargh, if only Linus hadn't caved in and approved binary blobs in the kernel... Of course this does not mean he couldn't try to remove them any time he wants. Unfortunately his reputation suggests one should not hold his breath waiting for this change. I very much hope I will be proven wrong tomorrow.
FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt are already the major hurdles for adoption of free software. (Thanks Micro$oft!) This will only make matters worse.
I am a member!
There are benefits to databases like this although they are driving us in the wrong direction. This includes h-node. We should be focusing on getting the source code released for specific chipsets and building relationships with companies that further that objective. That is how your going to get more hardware working with free software. These hardware databases have been around as long as Linux has been. Thinking this is some how going to change anything is showing ones lack of understanding/experience in the “industry”. It'll help the hacker figure out what works and doesn't. It won't move things forward. It doesn't promote the companies making a difference (be it Atheros for wireless, Intel for graphics, ThinkPenguin, or another).
I think a better 'database' is more along the lines of this:
USB Wireless chipsets: RTL8187, RTL8187B, RTL8187L, AR9170, AR9271
PCI/PCIe Wireless chipsets: anything at all (note: recent chipsets may not work out of the box until distributions catach up with including the drivers)
Printers: HP is the only company with a clear database (even if a bit confusing) indicating which printers are GNU/Linux and free software friendly.
etc.
And still this isn't perfect because users don't know what will actually work for them today. For instance even though we might know what works with free software drivers it doesn't mean it works out of the box easily yet. For instance I don't believe there are any HP printers readily available with support for 12.04 LTS now. HP discontinued the older models and Ubuntu (and derived distributions like Trisquel) included the older HPLIP drivers. So now they don't have out of the box support for any of the newer models. We stocked up on the printers prior to the supported models being discontinued to solve that problem (libre.thinkpenguin.com). Anyway- my point is these databases are not a good solution to the problem for the masses.
A better idea would be a certification. The FSF is certifying hardware although I don't believe its purpose covers all the issues I have listed here. It certainly does not solve bother free software issues and ease of use issues. However the one does help the other (free software does generally lead to ease of use).
These hardware databases have been around as long as Linux has been. Thinking this is some how going to change anything is showing ones lack of understanding/experience in the “industry”.
While I agree with Chris on the pragmatic aspect of this - that the databases don't help further our goals - I disagree with the fundamental principle involved. The idea behind compiling freedom-friendly databases is to allow consumers to make smart choices. How is this effective? Let's look at the theory, and the implementation.
The free market provides a mechanism for inducing change. This happens when agents in the market (consumers) make purchasing decisions. Each purchase changes the information the market provides as to what is desirable vs. undesirable. So even if you only have a core contingent of users that seek freedom-friendly hardware, a free market will provide for those users. Entrepreneurs will see the opportunity, and fill it. Those who aren't in that market, might see its profitability, and likewise expand their offerings to that niche in the market.
Fast-forward to our current system; we don't have a free market. Instead, companies are able to distort the market through subsidies, tax breaks, and monopolies. This distorts the IT sector significantly, by allowing market share monopolies (Microsoft, etc.) through collusion in the marketplace to reduce competition. This is typically achieved through careful exploitation of the patent, trademark and copyright law, in addition to well-placed tax policy. I don't have a load of time to go into the details (which are irrelevant anyway), but it's not about conspiracy, but businessmen taking advantage of a system.
The reality is, is that we need to realise how the system functions, and use it for our own purposes. In a free market (which isn't present in most of the world currently), educating consumers to make the right choices is effective. Highly effective. In the current market system, this does eventually work, but it takes a long time and a critical mass of consumers to achieve. We don't have the numbers. However, using consumer numbers to pressure companies to provide a specific product can be more effective (in this system). Why? In a pure market, prices and price indicators are incredibly effective tools for communication. Consumers stopping their purchases of one product, and switching to another product can be felt keenly in the market. In a distorted market, however, price signals don't always make it through without deamplification. Thus, using our real voices, we can be sure the message gets through more vocally.
It's not perfect, but I agree in general that Chris' approach (as well as purchasing from him ;) ) should effect more change than otherwise. Apologies for the length!
I am a member!
"The idea behind compiling freedom-friendly databases is to allow consumers to make smart choices"
Is it though? I don't think it is enabling smarter purchases.
I agree with you that in theory it should be a good thing. In practice I don't think it is. It's not reliable enough for the masses to use and I don't think it ever could be. It is more of a stumbling block.
I think a program to certify hardware like what the Free Software Foundation is doing is a better approach. Now I will point out that the Free Software Foundation is in support of both projects. I however am not convinced h-node or any database for "Linux hardware" is a good thing to promote. At least not which includes hardware that may or may not work (as all of these databases include and by design can't avoid).
From my experience (years and years and years of it) these databases are neither beneficial to the user nor are contributing to an increase in the demand for GNU/Linux hardware or free software friendly hardware. If anything I think it reduces the number of users and thus reduces demand by making GNU/Linux more challenging.
For better or worse it probably doesn't matter much so long as the easiest and quickest route is more prominent than the databases.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 13-01-15 07:12 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to invite anyone interested in hardware support for Gnu/Linux
to comment on this blog post:
> https://ftbeowulf.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/ubuntu-that-was-friendly
As I said in my original message, *let's make comments there*.
Commenting here is mostly preaching to the choir - and particularly
non-productive when I read stuff like "Let's keep our hopes up.".
F.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
iEYEARECAAYFAlD1ntkACgkQfUcTXFrypNX5kACdG/nEdRVrJbOFlVLU5mCgB9QZ
h0AAoLMcALcD6fgrdUogGgtoKpSR2GmY
=KJ6W
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>As I said in my original message, *let's make comments there*.
Good point.
- Inicie sesión o regístrese para enviar comentarios