Need for compromise in Free software? With Richard Stallman
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Brian Lunduke - formally of Linux Action show fame - did this excellent interview with several people for the FS community in regards to if we need compromise in free software (guess where Stallman stands? :P ).
http://lunduke.com/2015/12/16/need-for-compromise-in-free-software-with-richard-stallman/
Direct Links to files.
Ogg Theora 1080p Video - https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware-1080.ogv
Ogg Theora 720p Video - https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware-720.ogv
Ogg Vorbis Audio - https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware-AudioOnly.oga
Torrent Audio/Video both Free/Non free formats - https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware_archive.torrent
Seigo has posted a followup blog post after this interview: https://exote.ch/blogs/aseigo/2015/12/16/server-software-matters/
thank you, very informative
I am a translator!
Ha! Downloaded yesterday. Haven't seen it yet though.
SuperTramp83
Would you compromise by using other software and OS? Depends.
As long they still part of the philosophy the FSF HAS Taught US!
Dammed I will, as long it maintains the same scope!
That is were the licensing comes on play. specially the GPL variants of license.
For example: I have PC's that use Trisquel and DEBIAN that uses only free software.
Do I sell pure libre routers? No I don't.
Ubiquitis, Mikrotik and other brands of routers use GPL License but the firmware is proprietary, not the drivers which has GPL license.
Have they got in trouble for violating the GPL license? You bet they have, that is not for me to debate in court. That will be a argument between the FSF and the suspected violators.
All my own business PC's software are UNDER FSF COMPLIANCE. Believe me, facing the dilemma of compromising, it is a pain in making a proper conscious decision.
I am a translator!
>As long they still part of the philosophy the FSF HAS Taught US!
Actually I have been running exclusively Debian (first 7, now 8) during the last 10 months and Debian is NOT part of the FSF philosophy. They don't recommend and they don't endorse it. The reason we know about, and we agree on it. That being said, I don't care if the FSF doesn't endorse whatever software or distribution as long as it is libre software or a 100% libre OS..
It's not like the FSF is a church. I am certainly not a church fanatic nor am I an FSF fanatic, although I'd like it very much if Stallman baptized me within the high walls of an Emacs church X_x
Do you run Debian's main repository only together with the linux-libre kernel or what is your system? Because I am thinking about switching either to Trisquel or to Debian with its main repository activated.
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Yep. Only main. Debian by default includes only the main repo and ever since Debian 6 its kernel has been deblobbed (no proprietary firmware at all). To add proprietary software the user would need to manually add non-free and contrib repos by editing sources.list in /etc/apt. Just keep it as it is by default and triple check the license of any application/addon/plugin you compile or install outside of the main repo and you'll be fine.
I am a translator!
Yep. Only main. Debian by default includes only the main repo and ever since
Debian 6 its kernel has been deblobbed (no proprietary firmware at all). To
add proprietary software the user would need to manually add non-free and
contrib repos by editing sources.list in /etc/apt. Just keep it as it is by
default and triple check the license of any application/addon/plugin you
compile or install outside of the main repo and you'll be fine.
SuperTramp83
It's not like the FSF is a church. I am certainly not a church fanatic nor am I an FSF fanatic, although I'd like it very much if Stallman baptized me within the high walls of an Emacs church X_x
LOL, We share and have TOO MUCH IN COMMON.
Do you run Debian's main repository only together with the linux-libre kernel
or what is your system? Because I am thinking about switching either to
Trisquel or to Debian with its main repository activated.
SuperTramp83
It's not like the FSF is a church. I am certainly not a church fanatic nor am
I an FSF fanatic, although I'd like it very much if Stallman baptized me
within the high walls of an Emacs church X_x
LOL, We share and have TOO MUCH IN COMMON.
I am a translator!
>As long they still part of the philosophy the FSF HAS Taught US!
Actually I have been running exclusively Debian (first 7, now 8) during the
last 10 months and Debian is NOT part of the FSF philosophy. They don't
recommend and they don't endorse it. The reason we know about, and we agree
on it. That being said, I don't care if the FSF doesn't endorse whatever
software or distribution as long as it is libre software or a 100% libre OS..
It's not like the FSF is a church. I am certainly not a church fanatic nor am
I an FSF fanatic, although I'd like it very much if Stallman baptized within
the high walls of an Emacs church X_x
Would you compromise by using other software and OS? , but yet they are still
part of the philosophy the FSF HAS Taught US. Dammed I will, as long it
maintains the same scope! That is were the licensing comes on play.
Wait a sec!
Isn't the host the very same guy who bashed on richard in the infamous "linux action show" episode?
Did he really change that much or what happened??
Yes, he is: http://lunduke.com/. He explained towards the beginning of the video that he did not agree with Richard Stallman's stance until he got his second child. And he further explained his change in opinion. Watch from 0:44:45 onwards.
I saw the video. Interesting point of views, the reality is very real. A lot of us, that have business to manage and making profitable the "compromise zone' is always a big resolution to play with.
I saw the video. Interesting point of views, the reality is very real. A lot
of us, that have business to manage and making profitable the "compromise
zone' is always a big resolution to play with.
Yes, he is: http://lunduke.com/. He explained towards the beginning of the
video that he did not agree with Richard Stallman's stance until he got his
second child. And he further explained his change in opinion. Watch from
0:44:45 onwards.
I am a translator!
The guy from kolab was very entertaining :)
Related article, Stallman on compromises
I am a member!
So meet.jit.si looks good but on both abrowser and icecat it says I have an unsupported browser. Anyone know how to get it to work?
I am a translator!
Try Iceweasel maybe?
I am a member!
Do you know how I might do that on Trisquel? Do I want to add a Debian repo or would that mess things up?
I am a translator!
catfishes: Assuming the cpu architecture is 64 bit, go here and download the deb, check the sha1 and install the deb.
If it is 32 bit, go here.
If some dependency is not satisfied on Trisquel, which may be, you will need to compile it from the source.
I never compiled it from source but I heard it takes a looong time..
I am a translator!
deb, check the sha1 and install the deb.
If it is 32 bit, go here.
I some dependency is not satisfied on Trisquel, which may be, you will need
to compile it from the source.
I never compiled it from source but I heard it takes a looong time..
I am a translator!
Try Iceweasel maybe?
I have no problem with running 100% free software on my GNU/Linux machine as I have no issues in browsing the web, reading email, and developing in a handful of programming languages. Open hardware is a bigger issue as video cards and gigabit network adapters require non-free firmware to use it as intended. I would love if hardware developers made sure the product "worked out of the box" with open/libre drivers and firmware without having go down unethical routes and potentially adding backdoors to a libre OS like Trisquel.
I have no problem with running 100% free software on my GNU/Linux machine as
I have no issues in browsing the web, reading email, and developing in a
handful of programming languages. Open hardware is a bigger issue as fvideo
cards and gigabit network adapters require non-free firmware to use it as
intended. I would love if hardware developers made sure the product "worked
out of the box" with open/libre drivers and firmware without having go down
unethical routes.
My comment about what they talk about is I feel if the free software movement would not compromise at all and go the RMS road that would limit the message and it would isolate it to a small corner of teh internetz. A small isolated universe of geeky guys. I would not be a free software user if I hadnt listen to many hours of RMS talks at Youtube, and RMS dont want his talks on Youtube. Catch 22?
This isolation has the open source world cracked and has created great looking and easy to use distributions. The best example I know is Linux Mint. It is great looking, easy to use, easy to update and easy to install new software. Any Windows user can easy start using that.
My thinking is that free software movement today is too geeky. Geeks like RMS or long time "Linux" users that jump over to Trisquel. Trisquel is missing the "magic" that Mint, Ubuntu and other big distroes have. I think the firsts steps is too big for new users for Trisquel. If you show a new user any new Linux Mint release and Trisquel and say that Linux Mint is open source and Trisquel is free software the user would not go the free software road because they probably think that free software is 10 years after because of all the compromising/only free software.
I hope that Trisquel 8 will look a lot better then 7 out of the box. A good style, theme and icons for that I did read MATE. And some good looking included backgrounds. Themes that looks ok for a new user, a theme that dont repel new users. I cant contribute for the theming work but I can be a tester of the theme before final release of T8.
Unless my eyes failed on me (which happens quite often, believe me), or my ears didn't hear an important explanation, the show host is making another compromise, just look which web browser he's using. :D
Personally, for quite some time, I have tried to draw lines where I can or cannot make compromises, so far I have a few lines ready.
# Recruitment (before being employed)
* If the organization requires knowledge on using proprietary/non-free software, I do send my curriculum vitae.
* However, if the organization requires experience on using proprietary/non-free software, I deny the position.
# When being employed
* If the organization decides to use non-free software, I do mention the free software that I know that does the same things, but I don't insist. I only insist if I'm backed up by the majority of the employees or by another organization which already expressed their thoughts about this move from the very same organization I'm working to.
# Personal life
## Everything except games
1. Some decision making:
1.1. Is it stable? (yes: I use it; no: I don't).
1.2. Is it free functional data? (yes: I use it; no: I don't).
2. Would I teach/install/recommend/redistribute what is stable, but non-free functional data? No. However, I would redistribute it for the purpose of testing some free functional data that aims to replace the non-free functional data.
## Games on my own production computer
1. Is it free functional data? (yes: I use it; no: I don't)
## Games on video game consoles
* Side note: Since February 2015, I don't have a video game console.
* While I do draw the same line as the games on my own production computer. This situation is somewhat difficult for me to draw a line on, mostly because I tend to see this video game consoles as my escape route since the only friends that I know personally (not just over the Internet) are now distant from me and it appears that they don't use email anymore (once a trimester I try to send emails to them in order to organize a meeting, but they don't answer).
* Besides, for some reason, I don't find free software games to be that entertaining (perhaps because I haven't spent so much time playing them, or because many of my friends don't play them anymore). However, I'm trying my best to change this perspective over time, mainly because I'm planning to do some commented walkthroughs (or even longplays, if I do manage to complete the game to its 100%)
* Interestingly, since I currently don't have a video game console, I found out that I can somehow overcome my desire to use this escape route if I watch other people playing games on these video game consoles. However, I must admit that I generally find myself bored in the middle of the "shows".
* Important note: On the other hand, if I were to have a video game console, I would accidentally use it even overnight (before February 2015, I had one, and I have confirmed this problem), so I'm thankful for not having one right now.
I'll try to make game walkthroughs, with Brazilian Portuguese audio, and North American English subtitles, and perhaps Esperanto subtitles, when I manage to learn Esperanto in my spare time and lazy pace.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read my attempt to draw my compromise lines.
The approach of passing the bean dip is quite interesting. I, unknowingly have used this approach, specially if the person that I'm talking to already received my explanation, although due to my diplomatic behavior, I rarely resort to extreme attempts to finish the bean dip like hanging up and so on (that is, in the way described in the article you have pointed out).
My diplomatic behavior is the reason for which you'll rarely see me telling someone to go to the not-so-pleasant-place unless I'm joking, or very mad due to dozens of things that happened during a short period of time. That is, differently from most Brazilians, I tend to value the quality of the arguments/proofs rather than using verbal violence, but I do get mad in some circumstances.
I'll try to make game walkthroughs, with Brazilian Portuguese audio, and
North American English subtitles, and perhaps Esperanto subtitles, when I
manage to learn Esperanto in my spare time and lazy pace.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read my attempt to draw my
compromise lines.
The approach of passing the bean dip is quite interesting. I, unknowingly
have used this approach, specially if the person that I'm talking to already
received my explanation, although due to my diplomatic behavior, I rarely
resort to extreme attempts to finish the bean dip like hanging up and so on
(that is, in the way described in the article you have pointed out).
My diplomatic behavior is the reason for which you'll rarely see me telling
someone to go to the not-so-pleasant-place unless I'm joking, or very mad due
to dozens of things that happened during a short period of time. That is,
differently from most Brazilians, I tend to value the quality of the
arguments/proofs rather than using verbal violence, but I do get mad in some
circumstances.
Brian Lunduke - formally of Linux Action show fame - did this excellent
interview with several people for the FS community in regards to if we need
compromise in free software (guess where Stallman stands? :P ).
http://lunduke.com/2015/12/16/need-for-compromise-in-free-software-with-richard-stallman/
Unless my eyes failed on me (which happens quite often, believe me), or my
ears didn't hear an important explanation, the show host is making another
compromise, just look which web browser he's using. :D
Personally, for quite some time, I have tried to draw lines where I can or
cannot make compromises, so far I have a few lines ready.
# Recruitment (before being employed)
* If the organization requires knowledge on using proprietary/non-free
software, I do send my curriculum vitae.
* However, if the organization requires experience on using
proprietary/non-free software, I deny the position.
# When being employed
* If the organization decides to use non-free software, I do mention the free
software that I know that does the same things, but I don't insist. I only
insist if I'm backed up by the majority of the employees or by another
organization which already expressed their thoughts about this move from the
very same organization I'm working to.
# Personal life
## Everything except games
1. Some decision making:
1.1. Is it stable? (yes: I use it; no: I don't).
1.2. Is it free functional data? (yes: I use it; no: I don't).
2. Would I teach/install/recommend/redistribute what is stable, but non-free
functional data? No. However, I would redistribute it for the purpose of
testing some free functional data that aims to replace the non-free
functional data.
## Games on my own production computer
1. Is it free functional data? (yes: I use it; no: I don't)
## Games on video game consoles
* Side note: Since February 2015, I don't have a video game console.
* While I do draw the same line as the games on my own production computer.
This situation is somewhat difficult for me to draw a line on, mostly because
I tend to see this video game consoles as my escape route since the only
friends that I know personally (not just over the Internet) are now distant
from me and it appears that they don't use email anymore (once a trimester I
try to send emails to them in order to organize a meeting, but they don't
answer).
* Besides, for some reason, I don't find free software games to be that
entertaining (perhaps because I haven't spent so much time playing them, or
because many of my friends don't play them anymore). However, I'm trying my
best to change this perspective over time, mainly because I'm planning to do
some commented walkthroughs (or even longplays, if I do manage to complete
the game to its 100%)
* Interestingly, since I currently don't have a video game console, I found
out that I can somehow overcome my desire to use this escape route if I watch
other people playing games on these video game consoles. However, I must
admit that I generally find myself bored in the middle of the "shows".
* Important note: On the other hand, if I were to have a video game console,
I would accidentally use it even overnight (before February 2015, I had one,
and I have confirmed this problem), so I'm thankful for not having one right
now.
Even before watching am pretty sure I know what rms said.
Awesome.
Direct Links to files.
Ogg Theora 1080p Video -
https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware-1080.ogv
Ogg Theora 720p Video -
https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware-720.ogv
Ogg Vorbis Audio -
https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware-AudioOnly.oga
Torrent Audio/Video both Free/Non free formats -
https://archive.org/download/CompromiseInFreeSoftware/CompromiseInFreeSoftware_archive.torrent
Seigo has posted a followup blog post after this interview:
https://exote.ch/blogs/aseigo/2015/12/16/server-software-matters/
thank you, very informative
I am a translator!
Ha! Downloaded yesterday. Haven't seen it yet though.
Wait a sec!
Isn't the host the very same guy who bashed on richard in the infamous "linux
action show" episode?
Did he really change that much or what happened??
I am a translator!
The guy from kolab was very entertaining :)
Related article, Stallman on compromises
I am a member!
So meet.jit.si looks good but on both abrowser and icecat it says I have an
unsupported browser. Anyone know how to get it to work?
My comment about what they talk about is I feel if the free software movement
would not compromise at all and go the RMS road that would limit the message
and it would isolate it to a small corner of teh internetz. A small isolated
universe of geeky guys. I would not be a free software user if I hadnt listen
to many hours of RMS talks at Youtube, and RMS dont want his talks on
Youtube. Catch 22?
This isolation has the open source world cracked and has created great
looking and easy to use distributions. The best example I know is Linux Mint.
It is great looking, easy to use, easy to update and easy to install new
software. Any Windows user can easy start using that.
My thinking is that free software movement today is too geeky. Geeks like RMS
or long time "Linux" users that jump over to Trisquel. Trisquel is missing
the "magic" that Mint, Ubuntu and other big distroes have. I think the firsts
steps is too big for new users for Trisquel. If you show a new user any new
Linux Mint release and Trisquel and say that Linux Mint is open source and
Trisquel is free software the user would not go the free software road
because they probably think that free software is 10 years after because of
all the compromising/only free software.
I hope that Trisquel 8 will look a lot better then 7 out of the box. A good
style, theme and icons for that I did read MATE. And some good looking
included backgrounds. Themes that looks ok for a new user, a theme that dont
repel new users. I cant contribute for the theming work but I can be a tester
of the theme before final release of T8.
Even before watching am pretty sure I know what rms said.
Awesome.
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