Pro/Con thinking of getting the TPE-NWIFIROUTER
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I'm thinking of getting the Respects-Your-Freedom certified Wireless-N Broadband Router(1), but I'm trying to identify potential drawbacks before I commit. The only critical info I've found on the product is on Reddit(2), and this thread on Trisquel forums(3).
2: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2g4llo/the_fsf_has_granted_its_sixth_respects_your/
3: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/tp-link-librecmc-wifi-router-isp-modem-public-address
Maybe @Chris from Thinkpenguin will answer, in the meantime:
The Reddit criticism is mainly from people who don't believe the
freedom is first priority. As one commenter points out the age of
the chipset is not really a detriment if the speed is adequate to your
Internet connection's speed. The other criticism seems to be of
a similar nature - from someone who buys the latest thing with the
biggest number rather than take a realistic look at what they actually
need and will use. E.g. a recent review of 802.11ac routers on the
register.co.uk pointed out that only one laptop they knew of shipped
was capable of 400Mb/s speeds, let alone faster. So the poster
talking of 900Mb/s probably needs their xxxxx substitute complex
checking.
The Trisquel thread is about how someone with more time than money
might be able to buy the same thing and flash it themselves for less.
Then about how it is not an ADSL router - which it plainly isn't and
the need for an additional ADSL to Ethernet modem (which I'm
personally not convinced is what he's getting from his ISP in a
meaningful way) is well known and documented.
Of note is that if you want to run the risk of doing it yourself there
is also a very specific revision of one model of a Buffalo ethernet
router supported by LibreWRT, another GNU FSDG / FSF approved small
system distro.
Other than these two for purpose built routers the rest are merely
shades of grey and black risks in respect of security and Five
Eyes/Snowden issues. (E.g. one major UK ISP (BT) mandates its own
router which is known to have a backdoor considered to probably be for
the use of GCHQ, police and others).
As someone else has pointed out before on the forum the third solution
is to use a second desktop [e.g. your old one] with a second NIC, WiFi
and a switch. However, AFAIK there are no libre firewall distros so
there'll be quite some config work. Plus the power/space requirements
rule this out for most family homes I know of.
The bottom line is the TP router being preloaded, having vendor
support and RYF certification is a win for most people. Which is why I
pre-ordered one of the new batch.
Leny
For those who know I use ADSL and are wondering why bought one. Have
you heard what RMS says about the UK and followed recent news here? I
need a trustworthy router as an endpoint for the VPN to Sweden I
bought. Theresa May and other friends of the Viewers and Listeners
Association can go whistle. :-)
Leny
Since I couldn't find any real reviews, I basically re-approprated those comment threads to see if I could glean any objective info from them.
I'm upgrading from an 802.11g router which has handled well everything I've thrown at it, so I suspect an 802.11n router with 300Mb/s theoretical limit will be more than enough for me, and the argument on Reddit seems to support that. The thread on Trisquel Forums makes it obvious that the TPE router is made with a quality that would be impossible to find elsewhere. The RYF certification means a lot to me, in a good way. And the convenience of a device pre-built with free software from the bootloader up seems well worth the price.
I guess my only concerns are 1: Is it likely to have any compatibility issues? 2: Is it likely to have many bugs or reliability issues? And 3: Will I be able to keep the software up-to-date?
> I guess my only concerns are 1: Is it likely to have any compatibility
> issues? 2: Is it likely to have many bugs or reliability issues? And
> 3: Will I be able to keep the software up-to-date?
Given it's such a new offering and LibreCMC is a new distro the best
answer I can give you is as far as the software goes OpenWRT, the
upstream, has an absolutely sold reputation in respect of your three
items. I can't see why LibreCMC wouldn't inherit that.
Leny
Thanks very much for your input. I believe you're right about this line of reputation. If I want any more info I should probably look into people's experiences with OpenWRT.
I am a member!
While OpenWRT is probably the standard right now there are lots of concerns with that project. They've been hostile to free software related suggestions in the past. A brief description of it technically speaking is: It's a mess. I won't go into any detail, but the lead developer of LibreCMC has wanted to (for years) clean it up. That said this doesn't mean there is some other better project to build off. I can certainly name worse embedded distributions from a technical and freedom perspective. That said both LibreCMC (and LibreWRT) are derived from OpenWRT.
The lead developer of LibreCMC stripped out a lot of "garbage" from OpenWRT. LibreCMC is being actively worked on, there are security issues being fixed, and when an update is released I'd suggest upgrading.
The specific security issue is probably not a major issue for most people and it's an issue that probably won't be fixed in most routers. The reason it is not a major issue right now is there is a decent default configuration. The issue basically impacts near all distributions and its not the bash bug recently revealed. For those who are wondering LibreCMC does not include bash. We've been asked that question one too many times...
Guys
Personally, when it comes to firewalls and routers, I choose my own cup of tea.
Most of the current IPTABLES and firewall drivers are already GNU GPL license. Meaning they are free. That includes some WIFI and USB drivers under the GNU GPL licensing schemes.
As for my firewall I use IPFIRE. It works for me.
As for routers, my standard is a bit higher. If I could alter the factory firmware, then that router is on my hunters bucket list.
Since I have a very good hardware firewall supported by IP-FIRE, all my packages are under the GNU GPL license. I would use my WIFI as an AP only. Disabling the DHCP of the WiFi router and my issue ISP-DSL router.
I could set the ip-tables RANGE of my Choice using my IPFIRE and what is filter through my firewall. It works for me.
IPFIRE is not a cake walk, there is a lot of reading to do. But once you have figure out, what you want, you could study and choose the package that you want to add to your firewall. I normally will use any package add-on that are carrying GNU licensing.
Ipfire, It is superbly supported by the community.
The issue is the hardware and firmware. Either proprietary, keeping the code in a vault in secrecy or GNU GPL "Libre", meaning have they release the code to the community of developers. I had JTAG and flash around 20 routers on my own, I could tell you this much, it is real hard work and tedious, specially avoiding bricking that router.
As for Think Penguin, the router they are selling it is a "Good router for home use." and it is a libre version.
But for my personal use, I need something more powerful, specially when it comes to the chip-set and memory. The day that Think penguin start selling the new generation of AC-ROUTER all GNU/GPL LICENSE then I will order one. This just my opinion.
I am a member!
1. There is literally no stock left of the revision of the TP-Link router in any significant quantities anywhere. I checked pretty much every source imaginable: In China, Europe, and the United States. I didn't check sources who claimed to have less than 10 of the model, nor did I check routers that exceeded the price we're selling them at. I also checked similar routers with this same board/revision, but also ran into the same issue.
2. The Buffalo router your referring works with LibreWRT, but it is not as free as once thought. LibreWRT is as free as LibreCMC, but the bootloader required for booting on the Buffalo router is not free. With the board we're using @ ThinkPenguin the bootloader is/has been freed.
I'm not the developer and I may from time to time error slightly. However I'm constantly communicating with the lead developer and have a pretty good idea whats going on from the free software aspect.
3. This is a BASIC wireless router. At this point that's all we've been able to do without there potentially being non-free software issues. We're still investigating gigabit boards and higher end wireless routers, but don't hold your breath. We may not be able to duplicate this complete freedom with higher end routers even if the routers will run LibreCMC. There is more than just a distribution that runs on these routers that may need to be freed in order honestly call it a 100% free router.
4. For the critics I say this. If you don't care about free software or are too obsessed with performance then don't be surprised when your no longer able to tinker with your router because of digital restriction. Don't be surprised when its revealed the NSA's had a backdoor in all consumer routers from major suppliers. Don't be surprised when your data has been 'stolen', because of some bug that was never fixed.
5. One last thing. There will be no 802.11ac router in the near future as it'll require significant effort to get Atheros (or another company designing wireless chipsets) to release enough code/specs to make it happen. We were successful with ath9k-htc (modern USB N chipset) in large part because of two very pro-active free software activists within Atheros.
To that I say you can poke someone who is listening, but it's much harder to poke someone who isn't. We've been poking people ever since and it only goes so far if they don't make themselves available to be poked. As it stands those who remain at Atheros have been resistant to poking. I would love for someone to actively participate in the community from Atheros, but as it stands that just isn't happening right now.
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