So, how about them emulators?
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I'm rather curious as to what you all think about emulators.
There are two types of threads in this world:
Emacs and Vim flamewars, and intellectual discussion flamewars.
They're both fantastic. Choose one. :D
JadedCtrl
Here is my partial definition on your comments.
Overall this will be before, I'll give you a defiantly trolling answer to your discussion.
.........................DEFINITIONS----------------------------------------------
Emacs
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
GNU Emacs is an extensible, customizable text editor—and more. At its core is an interpreter for Emacs Lisp, a dialect of the Lisp programming language with extensions to support text editing. The features of GNU Emacs include:
Content-sensitive editing modes, including syntax coloring, for a variety of file types including plain text, source code, and HTML.
Complete built-in documentation, including a tutorial for new users.
Full Unicode support for nearly all human languages and their scripts.
Highly customizable, using Emacs Lisp code or a graphical interface.
A large number of extensions that add other functionality, including a project planner, mail and news reader, debugger interface, calendar, and more. Many of these extensions are distributed with GNU Emacs; others are available separate.
--------------------Vim (text editor)-------------------------------
Vim (/vɪm/;[3] a contraction of Vi IMproved) is a text editor written by Bram Moolenaar and first released publicly in 1991. Based on the ideas of the vi editor common to Unix-like systems, Vim is designed for use both from a command-line interface and as a standalone application in a graphical user interface. Vim is free and open source software and is released under a license that includes some charityware clauses, encouraging users who enjoy the software to consider donating to children in Uganda.[4] The license is compatible with the GNU General Public License.
Although Vim was originally released for the Amiga, Vim has since been developed to be cross-platform, supporting many other platforms. In 2006, it was voted the most popular editor amongst Linux Journal readers.[5]
------------------The Intellectual Discussion Group----------------------------------------------
For those of us who enjoy an actual conversation. We are an Invite only group please see a member if you would like to join. This group is designed for people to discuss things in a flame war free environment and a more respectful method of discussion.
----------------------MY INPUT-------------------------------------------------
Robotic Entertainment is the answer.
I rather be accompanied by a ROBOTIC, "GNU-Japanese barbie" as a sensual pole dancer. Instead of a "Flame-up conversation" from biatch/es full of barbaric text. All under the GPL license.
Have fun with drafting "True-less" comments.
I think playing roms with emulators isn't perfect but acceptable.. people make mods and hacks (modified versions... freedom 3), and those roms aren't really programs executed on your pc...
And i just can't give up on my NES and Snes collection... i really can't!
About vim and emacs... silly question, it's vim of course!
That's actually what I was thinking- some ROMs don't even run on computers in the first place, by the rms standard- the N64 doesn't have software updates.
I mean, people redistribute ROMs and hack them anyways.
And I just can't rid of my N64. We've been through so much together. ;-;
I am a translator!
it's time for donkey kong country! (1994)
and then it comes Aquatic Ambiance song in the beautifuly drawn level under the sea..
what a masterpiece! finished it like 34 times..
:)
Nah, it's time for some Perfect Dark.
Now *that's* a masterpiece. :p
Sorry Jaded, i have to agree with Supertramp here... donkey kong is just THE BEST!!
And the sequel is awesome too!
And i never played perfect dark though i always wanted to...
anyway, n64 rocks!
Zelda oot is the best n64 game
super mario 64 is close behind it though
Remember that commercial/proprietary roms are illegal, unless you dumped them yourself, with a rom dumper that you created yourself. There's little chance of getting caught, though.
I don't know what country you live in, but the sale of rom dumpers is illegal in the US per the DMCA.
This may be useful reading: http://www.zophar.net/articles/FairUseROMs.html
It's already illegal to play DVDs on my computer, so I'm not really worried.
Besides, I dump all my ROMs. Heh. Heh. Heh.
Great read, by the way.
Yeah, i ...dump all my roms too, of course...
Ok, seriously, those games are SO old, the developers of the games don't earn jack shit if i buy them used and i already shoved up like a tons of money up their asses when i was a kid... or rather my parents did.
So i really don't feel ethically obliged to pay something.
And come to think of it... actually i would be willing to pay if there was an acceptable offer out there.
Like, if i could just download a DRM free rom for a sensible price, i would do it, i guess.
And with sensible, i'm talking about like 50 cents per game (max).
But there isn't anything like that.
Playing the games conveniently with my emulator would cost a fortune (all the good games are just extremly rare and expensive) and would be an aweful lot of work..
And now I start realizing... yeah, the good games are all really rare and some collectors even buy a bunch of them to make them even more expensive.
Is it righteous that those highlights of our culture are locked away from the general public??
Games like castlevania, megaman, donkey kong... they should be affordable for everyone in my view!
http://www.zophar.net/articles/FairUseROMs.html
1) Does inviting a friend to play a game on an emulator with you make it illegal? No more than inviting a friend to watch the show you taped, or having a friend listen to the music tape you made of your CD in your car. It's okay, because it's still private use, and not public use.
2) Can you download a ROM image if you own the original media? NO, unfortunately. The instant the dump was put into a forum for commerce, which any FTP or web site qualifies as, it became infringing, and you cannot turn an infringing dump into a legal one by any means. You have to make your OWN non-infringing dump, eventhough it's more convenient to download the infringing one. :(
3) What if the site says it's a public library, from which you "check out" ROMs? Makes no difference. :( To check out a ROM, it would have to delete it's own copy, util you returned it. Same goes for those
"checkout BBSes." The disclaimer that you "must delete at the end of the checkout period" does not provide the BBS *any* legal protection.
TO sum up, dumping a ROM for use with an emulator is legal, under both statuatory law and case law precedent.
I just can't grasp why the means to get the ROM matter. If I have a copy of Super Mario Bros. for the NES and my friend gives me a USB with the ROM on it because I don't have a ROM dumper, what's it matter? Oh well... :\
"Hey, let's think up of some more excuses to throw the book at people..."
Read the article again in full calmly, to dump your hex memory. Then you will understand it, in full context. There is no six legs in cat, it is simple, nothing complicated.
http://www.zophar.net/articles/FairUseROMs.html
or that keeps bugging you, then build your own, it will be legal.
I can't justify proprietary software games running on a dedicated video game system any more than proprietary software games running on Windows. There's barely any distinction here.
The FSF and RMS decided to ignore software that might as well be circuitry due to the way it's designed not because it's fundamentally not software, but because exercising the four freedoms isn't possible on a technical level anyway, and there are more important battles to fight.
When talking about proprietary video games being played on emulator, this isn't the case at all; if we had the four freedoms, we could easily make all kinds of modifications, then run our modified versions in emulators. The fact that people already do this, even only having a binary to work with, is a clear testament to a need for this software to be libre.
Now, I'm not entirely sure if the massive amount of effort that has already been undertaken to understand some of these binaries causes them to transcend the source code requirement. I think it's possible. However, the fact remains that these binaries are copyrighted, and will be for the rest of our lives unless copyright changes, so even if their source code is no longer necessary, they are still unacceptable.
"I can't justify proprietary software games running on a dedicated video game system any more than proprietary software games running on Windows. There's barely any distinction here."
There's a massive difference here;
a computer is a universal machine, designed to do what i want; i process data with it, make calculations, talk to my friends, in short: do computing.
An (old) video game console is a machine designed for one purpose: play the game.
I don't do any computing with it; I insert the game, play it and remove it.
Like an interactive dvd.
If some company wants to control my computer, i feel offended. If i can't change the game on my snes (actually i could, like other people that make mods) i don't feel offended. There's not even an operating system running on it...
" if we had the four freedoms, we could easily make all kinds of modifications,"
people *make* all kinds of modifications, proving that some freedoms are already there.
The situation is not perfect, i agree.
But for me, it's acceptable.
I think the distinction between dedicated game systems and computers was lost when the dedicated game systems started supporting programmable cartridges. I'm sorry, but when you put a cartridge into an Atari 2600, you are loading software onto the machine. That the Atari 2600 doesn't have a complex operating system is irrelevant. It's a computer. A computer which is best at running video games (in fact, more specifically, best at running video games similar to Pong), but a computer nonetheless.
Most DVD players are malicious; you shouldn't use them. But there's an important distinction you're ignoring: video DVDs only contain videos and some data indicating how the videos are ordered. Video game cartridges contain a program which is executed on the video game system.
Sorry, I don't really understand how a DVD player not connected to the internet is "malicious"- no software updates, no internet connection.
CSS is a DRM. Just read Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Scramble_System ):
Content Scramble System (CSS) is a digital rights management (DRM) and encryption system employed on almost all commercially produced DVD-Video discs. CSS utilizes a proprietary 40-bit stream cipher algorithm.
The purpose of CSS is twofold:
CSS prevents byte-for-byte copies of an MPEG (digital video) stream from being playable since such copies do not include the keys that are hidden on the lead-in area of the restricted DVD.
CSS provides a reason for manufacturers to make their devices compliant with an industry-controlled standard, since CSS scrambled discs cannot in principle be played on noncompliant devices; anyone wishing to build compliant devices must obtain a license, which contains the requirement that the rest of the DRM system (region codes, Macrovision, and user operation prohibition) be implemented.
Yes, it's DRM, but it's been broken.
The DMCA (in the EU, the EUCD then translated in the national legislation; the DADVSI in France for instance) criminalizes the circumvention of DRMs. Just read Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#RealNetworks.2C_Inc._v._DVD_Copy_Control_Association.2C_Inc. ):
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works. It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself.
And, yes, it has already been applied to CSS. Just read Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealNetworks,_Inc._v._DVD_Copy_Control_Ass%27n,_Inc. ):
RealNetworks, Inc. v. DVD Copy Control Association, Inc., 641 F. Supp. 2d 913 (2009), is a United States District Court case involving RealNetworks, the movie studios and DVD Copy Control Association regarding the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) claims on the manufacturing and distribution of RealDVD, and a breach of license agreement. The district court concluded that RealNetworks violated the anti-circumvention and anti-trafficking provisions of the DMCA when the DVD copying software RealDVD bypasses the copy protection technologies of DVD.
This lawsuit is one of the many legal actions taken by the movie studios in an attempt to restrict the copying of DVDs.
I don't know much about the topic, but isn't the DRM mechanism actually intrinsic to the dvd and not the dvd player?
I mean, the dvd player will basically play any dvd i insert, no matter what kind.
It never refuses to work. How is this drm?
Read https://trisquel.info/fr/forum/so-how-about-them-emulators#comment-63774 again: the DVD is encrypted and the player needs the key (and the algorithm) to decrypt it. libdvdcss does that but is illegal in USA (because of the DMCA) and in many other parts of the world. For the player to be licensed, the conspiracy behind all that must be paid and you must promise to enforce the restrictions they want (prevent the supposed owner of the DVD from copying, do not let her skip the "piracy is illegal" talk, do not read the DVD if it is from another zone, etc.) and, of course, the key must remain a secret (that means no free software).
If the dvd is encrypted and the player needs the key in order to play it, that's unfortunate for the manufacturer of the dvd player, but the player certainly doesn't impose drm because it has a number of keys integrated.
It's the dvd which is encrypted and refuses to work on every player; *this* is drm.
"do not let her skip the "piracy is illegal" talk, do not read the DVD if it is from another zone"
Ok, those are real examples of drm imposed by the dvd player itself but i don't think it is _that_ restrictive...
DVDs were rather restrictive, not too long ago. Now, the DRM's pretty much been cracked. DRM that's cracked and can't be changed remotely via web isn't really a problem, is it?
On Trisquel, you just need to execute (in a terminal) /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh (what installs libdvdcss) and you can then read any DVD. But again, libdvdcss may be illegal in your country.
I know. That's what I said previously re-worded.
Perhaps I should've phrased my statement differently:
What is wrong with DRM if we can crack it?
If I can buy an ebook and break the DRM, how can it restrict or harm me?
If one can break the DRM of a DVD, how can using a DVD player or using DVDs restrict or harm me?
Ok, those are real examples of drm imposed by the dvd player itself but i don't think it is _that_ restrictive...
It is the frog-cooking strategy. If you plunge it into boiling water, it will jump away. If you put it into cold water and increases the temperature little by little, it will cook.
The VHS did not have any of those usage restrictions: you could easily make a copy, watch any VHS bought anywhere in the world and fast forward any part.
Now Microsoft has a patent on counting the number of viewers with a Kinnect-like device and stop the VOD if you did not pay for as many. 20 years from now, people may find that practice "not that restrictive"...
CSS encryption isn't a digital restriction mechanism. No encryption is. CSS, like any other encryption, is a method to prevent parties who don't have the key from seeing the data. CSS is used to hide the data on a DVD so that only approved DVD players can read it, thus forcing people who want to watch these DVDs to accept digital restriction mechanisms.
It might seem like a trivial difference, but I think it's an important distinction.
Mere data, such as what is on a DVD, can't implement digital restrictions. However, they can be designed to only be readable by intentionally restricted software, and that's the case for DVDs which are encrypted with CSS. So indeed, it's the DVD players that implement the digital restriction mechanisms, not DVDs themselves. (You can easily use a DVD without being hindered by these restrictions simply by playing them in Trisquel; it's just typically illegal to do so.)
I agree with you on the first point: encryption can't be drm.
However, the ability to decrypt can't be drm either; that just doesn't make sense.
"You can easily use a DVD without being hindered by these restrictions simply by playing them in Trisquel; "
You provided your own counter-argument:
If you want to use the dvd with trisquel, you have to *break* the drm in an illegal way.
Just because you can overcome the mechanism doesn't mean it's not there.
If you decide against breaking it illegaly, you can't play the dvd with trisquel and thus suffer from DRM without there being any dvd player involved...
i think this proves that we can't talk about drm being implemented in the player.
At the moment, i tend to think that neither encrypted dvds nor dvd player impose drm.
It's just a bad idea to buy encrypted media from a guy who doesn't want to tell you the password.
//edit:
Ok, I gave it some thought and come to the conclusion that ecnrypted dvds impose drm, but you can't say that the mechanism is "in" the dvd player or "in" the dvd.
It's the combination of "the dvd is encrypted + you don't have the password + only certain dvd player have the password and won't tell you" all together that forms the drm.
If you don't buy encrypted dvds, there is no problem using a dvd player.
> However, the ability to decrypt can't be drm either; that
> just doesn't make sense.
I never said it is. The actual typical digital restriction mechanisms in DVD players are:
- Refusing to allow you to skip certain portions (usually ads and "FBI anti-piracy warnings")
- Refusing to save the data e.g. to another DVD
- Refusing to read DVDs from a different region
Again, encryption isn't a digital restriction mechanism. It is merely an enforcer of digital restriction mechanisms imposed by the DVD players.
Refusing to buy encrypted DVDs doesn't eliminate the digital restriction mechanisms imposed by the DVD player. All it does is allow you to read the DVD with an unauthorized player (legally, in this case, since CSS as an encryption scheme has been completely and utterly broken), and you should, because the authorized players are all malicious.
Me neither, I cant comprehend how a DVD player is malicious to the internet?
Does anyone has an answer that is baptized with Holy FSF water for this question?
I am a translator!
what's the best website to download some snes roms?
i used to use coolrom.com but nintendo made a copyright claim and they all got taken down
but ill host my rom collection for you
on my webserver
but please comment back to tell me what time to
i dont want it on there for long
as i dont want to get sued
but when you do get the files please shared them!
Could I join SuperTramp in viewing your collection? :)
Oh, and I set up a redirect to your webserver-
http://pika.jadedfs.net
It's a little easier than typing in the IP address every time.
thanks alot
just to be clear as i don’t think i was in the post
i am only hosting the files for
a small amount of time as i don’t want
lots of traffic or to get sued
heres the link but i will take it down soon:
http://92.19.232.58:82/files/Roms.tar.bz2
if you ever want me to host it for you email me and i will
for a short amount of time and then take it down again
I am a translator!
that is some nice collection! Done. thx
ok so as i said i will now take it down
but if anyone wants the roms please email
me and i will put them back up temporarily!
If anyone else wants to see the ROM collection, I'll host it on my ownCloud for you, just email me.
I am a translator!
thx tomlukey! I already downloaded a lot of roms from http://romhustler.net/
what do you guys think of that site? It seems nice - no need to allow javascript...
looks good just get all the roms you need before
Nintendo close it down!
I am a translator!
Just wanted to say - I finished aladdin a couple of days ago. Great game although somewhat short; took me an hour and a half :(
p.s - one question. Don't know if it is a dumb question..but anyway: would it be possible for someone to add some code to a rom, so that when I run it in znes it would have any malicious capabilities?
I mean - is it possible to take a .smc and modify it to be malicious software?
"is it possible to take a .smc and modify it to be malicious software?"
anyone can write software for the snes
so the amount of damage they can do depends on the ability’s of the emulator
there are game-boy emulators that can send data to other servers with to GB link cable:
http://92.19.232.58:82/videos/GBDK_tutorials/html/gb_tut_7.html
you normally have to tell the emulator to do this
but if someone found out a bug that let them do it
secretly then you might not no about it
so its low risk but can happen
it would be safe to use them in a emulator in a offline virtual machine i guess
I am a translator!
I started Earthbound - a m a z i n g :)
p.s - I found this: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:17eef16f4eca959d7fd097c1888c419e07f4dd7c&dn=Super+Nintendo+for+PC+%28Every+SNES+Rom+N+Emu+EVER%29+%2811337+roms%29&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969
.jpg "220px-Silvio_Berlusconi_(2010).jpg")
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