Why do many English speakers tut while speaking?

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Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

This would be sounded immaterial, but somehow I cannot like it.
When I started to be able to listen English vaguely, I noticed this English speakers's habit. First, I thought that they were angry or something but it sounded like they were talking about something normally instead of tutting.
Even the speakers of the Wall Street Journal sometimes tut. So it seems that even in business, the habit is accepted.
Suppose you can speak Japanese, then at a business scene, if you tut while speaking, I think that it could be something. Only malicious so-called not-banned-yetish people do such kind of behaviour in business (I never hand them money again usually). I got to know little about bit of English language and indeed some English words have a opposite meaning but this seems to be too much. A tut means quite strong maliciousness. I have just read a note of a dictionary and it is written that "usually repeat twice". Does the word click mean a harmless tut?
I have searched for it on the internet in Japanese but I could find nothing somehow. Am I an only person who cares such a thing?
If you have something information about the habit, please inform me of it. Because I want to be careless about it in the future. Thank you.

andyprough
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se unió: 02/12/2015

I don't recall hearing anyone saying "tut". Sounds like a British thing to say. Are you listening to British speakers?

Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

Thank you. Please listen to this.

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=zApwVMpGVfE

0:45 ...OK, (tut)
0:52 ...questions. Hmm. (tut)
0:56 ...those are my questions. Hm. (tut)
2:44 ...Dutch dish. Hmmm... (tut)
etc

> I don't recall hearing anyone saying "tut".

I also had guessed that English speakers might not recognise it as tutting. So what is that?

> Sounds like a British thing to say. Are you listening to British speakers?

It is difficult for me to distinguish the difference of those types of English. But I think that the most speakers of my favorite channels are American.

jxself
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se unió: 09/13/2010

They're not actually saying a word like "tut." It's you close your mouth, later open your mouth, the tongue stays at the roof of mouth and it removed in such a way that it produces a "smacking" sound. It's not a word; they're not actually saying anything. This is more a nervous tick, like how some speakers might say "ummmmm" or "ahhhhh" or "errrr" and should be seen in that context.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

> They're not actually saying a word like "tut." It's you close your mouth, later open your mouth, the tongue stays at the roof of mouth and it removed in such a way that it produces a "smacking" sound. It's not a word; they're not actually saying anything. This is more a nervous tick, like how some speakers might say "ummmmm" or "ahhhhh" or "errrr" and should be seen in that context.

Agreed. Also, this video is of two Dutch female models. So, not only is English probably not their first language, but they may be making that ticking or clicking sound on purpose as part of the way they have trained themselves to speak. Hard to say without listening to them speak for a lot more time.

Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

Thank you for the information. Now I understand. It will relieve my sensitive mind to some degree. I was frightened that when they make the sound.
But is not that similar to a tut? Or is that totally a different sound? I am not sure but in movies, I think that I have merely heard the sound few times. Those are quite old movies though. Recently I have not talked with native English speakers but I don't remember whether there were people who made the sound, indeed my listening skill was more terrible so they might have not had a chance to do it. Anyway, I see, they are Dutch :P and btw Gilles Deleuse regards neurosis as our universal symptom, because [...] so x=y. Lastly, is this your sentence grammatically correct?

> So, not only is English probably not their first language,

This sounds very complicated.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

> Lastly, is this your sentence grammatically correct?

It may be grammatically correct, but it doesn't look like I wrote it well stylistically. Looks like I used a form of a double negative - "NOT only is English probably NOT their first language". Bad form. Do not emulate my English grammar.

> I am not sure but in movies, I think that I have merely heard the sound few times. Those are quite old movies though.

It was common for some girls to make this sound in America in the 1980's when they were talking. I have not heard it used so much recently.

Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

> It may be grammatically correct, but it doesn't look like I wrote it well stylistically. Looks like I used a form of a double negative - "NOT only is English probably NOT their first language". Bad form. Do not emulate my English grammar.

Whose English should I emulate. I am confused what you are talking about. But OK, I buy it.

> I have not heard it used so much recently.

What are you talking about. But OK, I buy it. I am going to preach to native English speakers in the future about how it could be bad manners. How it frightens me.

jxself
Desconectado/a
se unió: 09/13/2010

"I am going to preach to native English speakers in the future about how it could be bad manners. How it frightens me."

I don't know that it would qualify as "bad manners" to be making that sound any more than it would be "ban manners" to be saying "ummmmm" or "ahhhhh" or "errrr" while talking. Those sounds along with things like "ummmmm" or "ahhhhh" or "errrr" can be taken that the speaker is nervous, uncomfortable and/or unprepared. In a casual thing like this it seems acceptable. It would probably not be appropriate in a more professional or formal setting though.

Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

"ummmmm" and "ahhhhh" and "errr" cannot be confused with other expressions, maybe.
The problem is that obviously the sound is similar to a tut. Maybe that's why it would probably not be appropriate in a more formal setting. However, I seem to need a further investigation of this matter. I would need to ask as much as possible number of people their opinion then know the kind of current consensus on the sound. Acceptable sounds a thing that it is better to avoid unless it has a something positive meaning in a certain situation. But that's difficult to imagine such a situation. That is almost a tut. A tut is a tut. It is difficult to let it have a good meaning, you mean. But there are really many speakers making the sound, besides some people do it quite frequently. It sounds a normal habit rather than acceptable. So... yeah...

Masaru Suzuqi
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se unió: 06/06/2018

But then, I cannot like that. This is just my personal feeling maybe as a Japanese, it does not seem to be sane. At least I don't want to buy something from such a seller who is tatting while selling his product if there are other sellers who are taking care about the habit. There are many (especially younger male) sellers who exchange money for merchandise and obvious malicious habits in Japan. I think I am not buying even such a thing too. I don't hand them money. There are jolly sellers (especially young girls) smiling then says lightly "Thank you very much!" I am willing to hand them money even if they also have slight malicious emotion. (It is natural. No one wants to bow especially to their stupid superiors basically)
It seems that there is no difference between suggesting not to buy some devices and not to hand them money. That is one of the strongest weapon of economy classes. We should exercise the power, otherwise, how to win. Anyway it does not seem to be sane. They are tutting. laugh. Is it possibly kind of a ego of a ruler of languages? just a thought.
BTW, managers tend to prefer people like loyal dogs as middle management, it is natural though. That might be a source of your suffering. But don't worry. They are usually not much capable. Just never bite the hand of the master even if how much they want to bite. Don't they restrict you from learning other skills? to draw a line between a lower class and a middle class? and to let a better dog promote. I have seen many of them actually. They were thinking me as an idiot. That is the same as the army... classes, promotion, loyalty... It is old-fashioned despite there is the internet... How...

jxself
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se unió: 09/13/2010

"This is just my personal feeling maybe as a Japanese, it does not seem to be sane. At least I don't want to buy something from such a seller who is tatting while selling his product"

I imagine that even Japanese people feel nervous and uncomfortable in speaking at times and that there are both verbal and physical indicators of this. Perhaps it is expressed differently and perhaps the social acceptability of it is also different. I'll have to defer to you on this, as an expert in Japanese culture.

Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

I don't think that the native speakers who also feel uncomfortable with the habit is zero. If the ratio is very low, in short just few people are uncomfortable with it, maybe I can be careless of it like other differences of cultures. It would depend on the ratio. It obviously seems to differ from other cultural differences since it similar to a tut. But it is better that we respect other countries' customs, if a British person minds to hear the noise of slurping noodles, I take care with it. But if he does not take care about e.g. the sound as his country's natural custom, it would not be going to be a good relationship. So telling those customs each other and understanding them each other might be important. (though there are people who start to do it with strange passion if we say we don't like it)
And I think I can say I am almost always nervous in communication. That means neither I am not relaxed nor I enjoy it (I like talk) but for me communication is a very difficult thing. So I have to concentrate on especially selecting one word by one word. If I become loose, I could do something rude soon. In my opinion, there are many people who emit those rude manners without much hesitation pretending innocence or "unintentional". Some people agree with this opinion so fortunately I am not the only person who thinks such a thing. It would be the matter of communication skills. I know I am not a master of it yet (there are really great people). But some people's skills sometimes seem to be hopeless. It seems that some people come near to others in a supermarket, on the street, in everywhere to say "excuse me" or maybe to study (the cameras and the microphones) something. It looks like living-deads or sleep-walkers usually. They are sometimes laughing, but it seems that they are feeling the necessity to make a smile. Especially young people seem to have this tendency, but they have time, so I feel possibility. composure, hope from their faces. But...

Well, the action is nothing compared to peeping at women (and men somehow) with PRISM.
I wonder how they were punished. Obviously they have no right to be officers. I wonder if they understand what they are doing. It is nothing less than sheer madness. Literally madness. I also wonder if they have an awareness of the fact that they are crazy. They are peeping at other people's privacy with PRISM with murmuring something unbelievable excuses. Is not that crazy? They should enter a hospital if their brains can be fixed. I think they are the ones who are dangerous. They can peep at women with PRISM. It is dangerous for us because probably they can fill the three desires, too. Sigh....

Sigh....

Edit: a typo...

commodore256
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se unió: 01/10/2013

It's a filler sound like "ano~" and "etto".

Masaru Suzuqi
Desconectado/a
se unió: 06/06/2018

I see. Do you feel that the filler sound is similar to the sound of a tut? ano~ or etto sound mildly. Actually I was thinking why they were tutting. Is it a complete different sound from a tut for you? Or single tutting means the filler sound and double tutting means irritation etc?

jxself
Desconectado/a
se unió: 09/13/2010

"Or single tutting means the filler sound and double tutting means irritation etc?"

Maybe. But a single one *could* communicate irritation also. An example might be: I make a single one and have a stern expression and say "Come on, Jason. I already told you about this. You can do better." So it depends on context. What's being said, what's happening, facial expressions, body language, the entirety of the situation. Just the single sound by itself alone in isolation would not be enough to determine that. That's why, last month when this thread started, it was really helpful to see and hear the people in the video to determine what was going on. In their case it was not irritation.

commodore256
Desconectado/a
se unió: 01/10/2013

I think it's more cultural than linguistic. I think it's like when westerners point to their chest and say "you're talking to me" and a Japanese person would point to their nose and say "watashi ha?".

I guess a better way of putting it would be a vocal gesture than a word and I think I would call it a "click". I think the clicking might be contextual, you have to do it without thinking.

But I'm guessing Japanese do it too, here's my frame of reference though it's a children's cartoon. https://invidio.us/watch?v=tIDCc0YNe10 4:48

It maybe a children's cartoon where you're from, but when they tried playing that here, they played it late at night on the adult lineup. (they also changed their names. Shinichi=Jimmy, Ran=Rachel, Mouri Kogoro=Richard Moore, Hattori Heiji=Harley Hartwell) It's our broadcast and telecommunications regulations and the changing of the name is to make it more "localized". You can't really show corpses with their eyes open on children's programming. But I do like the creativity they use for off-screen deaths in western cartoons. This was shown on Saturday mornings here on over the air TV:

https://invidio.us/watch?v=aNZ0n-OGMDg