Hyperbola - minimalist libre distro, and systemd-free

61 respuestas [Último envío]
andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

I was challenged by @damidu to give Hyperbola linux a try as it is an FSF-approved libre distro which is very minimalist. A big bonus (for me) is the fact that it is systemd-free.

After installing, it boots up almost instantly, and 'free -h' shows 44mb memory in use. Logging into the jwm minimalist window manager and opening qterminal brings it up to 73mb memory in use. Running screenfetch (similar to neofetch) brought it up to 89mb in use. These are all insanely low numbers on this wickedly fast system - good job to the Hyperbola devs.

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Malsasa
Desconectado/a
se unió: 12/01/2016

Thanks Andy for sharing Hyperbola here.

Sincerely,
Malsasa

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

I've updated to Hyperbola's testing repo, and after that I was able to download and run the latest version of Trisquel's abrowser web browser on it.

This is good, because the browser that comes with the stable version of Hyperbola, called "iceweasel-uxp", is about 1.5 years old - much too old to be considered safe on the internet I'm afraid. abrowser is kept very up-to-date, and so gives a much safer option.

The latest abrowser will not work with the "stable" version of Hyperbola, since Hyperbola's stable version of the glibc package is too old. But the latest abrowser will work with the "testing" version of Hyperbola.

To update Hyperbola to testing, open the /etc/pacman.d/mirrors file:
$ sudo nano /etc/pacman.d/mirrors
and then comment out all the mirrors that have "stable" in their name, and un-comment the mirrors that have "testing" in their name, and save and exit nano.

Then update the distro to testing:
$ sudo pacman -Syyu

This update will be very large and will take a long time, and you will be asked a lot of questions at the beginning. Answer "Yes" or agree to the "default" option each time. Be careful to watch the questions, because sometimes you have to type in "y" for yes instead of just hitting the Enter key. Reboot after the update, and try to update again. You'll need to update as root, since the testing version of Hyperbola does not have the "sudo" package:
# pacman -Syyu

To download the latest abrowser .deb file, navigate a web browser (Hyperbola's iceweasel-uxp in this case) to a Trisquel mirror, such as https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/

Once in the Trisquel mirror, navigate to the "pool" folder, then the "main" folder, then the "f" folder, and then the "firefox" folder. Find the latest version of abrowser in that folder that works with the architecture for your machine. In my case, it was this .deb file:
abrowser_92.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1+9.0trisquel82_amd64.deb

Ignore the language pack files (unless you need a non-English version) and the "dev" and "dbg" versions of the .deb files.

Download the .deb file into a folder in your Hyperbola home directory. For example, I made a folder for this called "abrowser":
$ mkdir ~/abrowser/

Then you will need a tool called "ar" to unpack the .deb file. You can get this "ar" tool by installing the "binutils" package (you'll need to do this as root, since the testing version of Hyperbola does not have the "sudo" package):
# pacman -S binutils

Now, as the regular non-root user, use "ar" to unpack the .deb file:
$ ar x abrowser_92.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1+9.0trisquel82_amd64.deb

This will create a bunch of folders and files in your "abrowser" folder. One of these is the "data.tar.xz" file. We need to unpack this file as well. Unpack it with the following command (as the regular, non-root user):
$ tar xf data.tar.xz

This will create a bunch more folders and files in your "abrowser" folder. One of these is the "usr" folder. Buried inside that folder is the "abrowser" binary, which you can execute to start the abrowser web browser, with the following command (as the regular, non-root user):
$ usr/bin/abrowser

NOTE - this is NOT "/usr/bin/abrowser" - this is "usr/bin/abrowser", with no leading "/". This command will start abrowser - and you are browsing the web like normal.

You can make abrowser available throughout Hyperbola with the following command (make sure to write out the full paths with this command) (you will need to run this command as root, since the testing version of Hyperbola does not have the "sudo" package):
# ln -sf /home/[YOUR_USER_NAME_GOES_HERE]/abrowser/usr/bin/abrowser /usr/local/bin/abrowser

Now you can start abrowser anytime by simple typing
$ abrowser
into a terminal, or you can add it to your desktop menu by adding the "abrowser" command to the menu.

HyperbolaJwmKit4.jpg
lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

That is great: a viable go-to alternative compatible with Abrowser is precious.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

It's a lot of work to get it doing everything. Two days into it and I still don't have sound. Guess I'll be reading the "Arch way" of getting sound running this week - what fun!

But it sure is one seriously minimal system.

HyperbolaJwmKit5.jpg
aloniv

I am a translator!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 01/11/2011

Couldn't you simply install abrowser from the AUR?
Something like this

$ mkdir abrowser-bin
$ cd abrowser-bin
$ pluma PKGBUILD

Copy this into file PKGBUILD (I added insecure to the AUR PKGBUILD as it wouldn't work otherwise)


# Contributor: Figue
pkgname=abrowser-bin
s_pkgname=${pkgname%-*}
pkgver=92.0
pkgrel=2
pkgdesc="Binary version of Abrowser, safe and easy web browser from Mozilla"
arch=('x86_64')
license=('MPL' 'GPL' 'LGPL')
url="https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/abrowser-help"
depends=('gtk2' 'gtk3' 'gcc-libs' 'libidl2' 'nss>=3.12.10' 'libxt'
'libxrender' 'hunspell' 'startup-notification' 'mime-types' 'dbus-glib'
'alsa-lib' 'libevent' 'sqlite3>=3.7.4' 'libnotify' 'desktop-file-utils'
'libvpx' 'lcms2' 'nspr>=4.8.8' 'libevent' 'libpng' 'cairo')
makedepends=(curl)
_pkgver_x86_64=$(curl --insecure -s 'https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/pool/main/f/firefox/?C=M;O=D' | grep abrowser_$pkgver | cut -d+ -f2,3 | cut -d'"' -f1 | grep amd64 | head -1)
source=("https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/pool/main/f/firefox/${s_pkgname}_${pkgver}+${_pkgver_x86_64}")
sha256sums=('a998dd1000254b8e0cdf68007ca4e45eeb7d04f9e21894017926d977b9249e3b')
package() {
tar xJf ${srcdir}/data.tar.xz -C ${pkgdir}/
printf '%b' " \e[1;36m->\e[0m\033[1m Cleaning up unwanted files...\n\e[0m"
rm -rv "${pkgdir}"/{etc/apport,etc/apparmor.d,usr/share/apport,usr/share/lintian}
}

Then run:

$ wget --no-check-certificate 'https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/pool/main/f/firefox/abrowser_92.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1+9.0trisquel82_amd64.deb'
$ makepkg -s
$ sudo pacman -U abrowser-bin-92.0-2-x86_64.pkg.tar.lz

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

I'm sure you are right, I have not made my own PKGBUILD's before. Looks like you just copied the one from the AUR and added the 'insecure' option, and that's also what I'm reading from your note.

One thing I don't understand. If you are downloading the deb file with wget, then what is this command inside the PkGBUILD doing?
>_pkgver_x86_64=$(curl --insecure -s 'https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/pool/main/f/firefox/?C=M;O=D' | grep abrowser_$pkgver | cut -d+ -f2,3 | cut -d'"' -f1 | grep amd64 | head -1)

Is that entire line there just to grab the package version information?

aloniv

I am a translator!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 01/11/2011

Yeah the command finds the relevant version and I just added the insecure option to the regular PKGBUILD. I assumed the .deb download would fail as well due to a certificate error which is why I downloaded the file manually (usually this isn't needed but wget also cannot download the file without skipping the certificate check). makepkg seems to first checks the current directory for source files so it doesn't try to download them if it finds them in the current directory.

Legimet
Conectado
se unió: 12/10/2013

Seems like a lot of people are getting certificate errors. Why is that?

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

Is that what's covered in this Hyperbola forum thread? https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?id=590

An outdated version of curl causing problems?

aloniv

I am a translator!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 01/11/2011

It's because the Let's Encrypt certificates have expired.

$ wget 'https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/pool/main/f/firefox/abrowser_92.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1+9.0trisquel82_amd64.deb'
--2021-10-05 09:20:35-- https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/pool/main/f/firefox/abrowser_92.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1+9.0trisquel82_amd64.deb
Resolving archive.trisquel.info... 209.51.188.51, 2001:470:142:5::51
Connecting to archive.trisquel.info|209.51.188.51|:443... connected.
ERROR: cannot verify archive.trisquel.info's certificate, issued by ‘CN=R3,O=Let's Encrypt,C=US’:
Issued certificate has expired.
To connect to archive.trisquel.info insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'.

Legimet
Conectado
se unió: 12/10/2013

Weird. Has ca-certificates not been updated? On my Debian unstable system I can wget https://archive.trisquel.info with no problems.

Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

So you guys have spent a lot of time, expert tweaking producing an insecure unstable OS with a DE - why?
Then to having to ditch installed browser followed by difficulty adding Abrowser.

I had just got my head around why those headless guys were at! Then...

Ianun > That is great: a viable go-to alternative compatible with Abrowser is precious.
I just can't see where your at - perhaps answer this if still avoiding other questions?

AP > But it sure is one seriously minimal system.
You are joking - init? Having a Laugh - stirring?

Psst - can I let you into my little secret...?

Trisquel v9 has Abrowser as standard and is utterly Stable and Efficient with certificates regularly removed and replaced with latest available via normal update by one click..

See recent screenshot - and that is with additions...

Triv9-mem-01.png
andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

Whoever is following Andy around and automatically downvoting his posts should knock it off. This is a very good post, and he brings up several good points. You overly concerned Karens are only making yourselves look bad.

Edit: Although |anun/lanun/Ianun has the perfect right to vote him down (if |anun/lanun/Ianun did vote Andy down) since Andy appears to be (in a very weird way) calling him out.

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

> following Andy around and automatically downvoting his posts

That sounds like some real fun. Let's choose one random user each week to follow around and systematically downvote or upvote them. From Monday on, I shall start downvoting my own posts. My goal is to get at least two of them hidden from the view of the unsuspecting JS users.

Avron
Desconectado/a
se unió: 08/18/2020

Can you explain which these good points are? (I have not downvoted the post, I just don't understand it, like the majority of Andy's posts unfortunately).

I have read claims that Hyperbola is insecure and unstable without any evidence, besides your own comment that iceweasel-uxp is 1.5 year old. However, there might be other browsers available in Hyperbola and that says nothing about stability.

I also have read claims that Hyperbola is not a minimal system without any information on how this is judged.

With respect to Trisquel, I am curious to understand how to judge that it is "efficient", the amount of memory used without any information on what is used/running looks a little weak to say it is "efficient".

To me, Trisquel is equally simple to use like Debian while much more convenient to avoid non-free software. Then, my almost one year experience with it is that it works well enough apart from periodic freezes/crashes in which the logs almost always refers to nouveau in the stack although I am using an Nvidia card officially perfectly supported.

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

> Andy appears to be (in a very weird way) calling him out.

Always liked to listen to troll calls at dusk.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

>"Trisquel v9 has Abrowser as standard and is utterly Stable and Efficient"

You definitely should stay with Trisquel, do NOT do any of the weird stuff I do while I'm tearing apart other distros and playing with their pieces. It is a complete waste of time and energy, I agree heartily with that point.

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

Too late, I already lost half the pieces. I guess I will now hammer the remaining parts to dust, and vacuum clean.

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

And by the way: good to have recent news from Zapper.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

Are you following our recent discussions on the Devuan forum, or did zapper email you?

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

I opened the last attachment in your OP.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

Oh, well he's on the Devuan forum every day, you should go sign up and say hi. Or better yet, he's also on the Hyperbola forum every day, it's a free software forum like Trisquel, we should both sign up there and explore this interesting Hyperbola distro further.

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

I definitely have to set a foot in the Hyperbola galaxy.

Next step will be to install it on that tiny test machine when I manage to put my hands on it. As you can see, I am trying to mobilize all my available limbs to that endeavor.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

I just see Hamlet and a very attractive skull.

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

Exactly.

Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

I see two empty vessels.. without any means of support..!

Will any of them answer for their comments -

been hiding long enough - don't you think..?
Just answer for your own posts - not too much to ask is it..?
Then I will get off your warty toxic back and remove NBC suit.

AP > look bad...! Wo Dude

Ain't seen nothing as bad as this muther on this forum

American-Toad-Backyard-Pond-2.jpg
Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

Was that Frank,,, Dweezil or Moon Unit..:)
Zappa

What a great American..
A defender of free speech..

Not like that tiny 1% or less group of bully boys on this forum!

Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

PUBLIC APOLOGY TO ALL FROM ANDY

Just got back from ebike ride around our local castle, woods and parkland and have appointment at docs soon.
https://www.futureelvaston.co.uk/
Had a look for that Toad in hiding - see last picture - but to no avail..:)

In my first comment on this thread I asked in effect and politely as to why, as I see it, you are misleading our readers by "biging up" Hyperbola and each other - just who were you guys trying to fool..?
Our readers maybe - certainly not Andy.

Those with a modicum of intelligence would have spotted that not only was I polite but that I did not do a massive “put-down” by mentioning super efficient Trisquel-mini or my maxed out fully loaded Ttrisqel-miniMAX, including games, Abrowser, Midori, full latest LibreOffice suite, Gimp and video editing software etc etc coming in at 247MiB RAM last time I looked.
Indeed with my experiment I am trying my best to break it and to slow it down by overloading it with software then doing some multi-tasking whilst online with my phone plugged in too. I cannot break it or slow it down – and I don’t fully understand why – do you?

However last night before hitting the hay I had a quick look on my phone and was horrified by what had inadvertently done. I could not sleep so hence this apology and plea.
Your topic went almost viral with folks saying they were shipping out to hide their embarrassment I presume..? Going to some safe place to big each other up and serve up even more **** ****.

PLEASE GUYS - DO NOT EVER EVER STOP EXPERIMENTING – it keeps me alive and kicking back. This is what has evolved us into humans going back before the DARK AGE in China and the ancient Hellenise – (they do not like being called Greeks) and the Moors of Noth Africa who brought this knowledge into Europe via Spain.
Sorry to inform you - Chimpanzees EXPERIMENT with weapons and tools as do some other creatures.
Their TV was the night sky. Check out my heroes Archimedes and Pythagoras. So guys do not move on my account – be brave; let us see more screenshots and other evidence like I do. Don’t hide away like a Toad in winter..!

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

>"Toad in winter"

Chilled toads are delicious, especially with some diced onions and a pinch of paprika...

inmemoriam.jpg
Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

PUBLIC APOLOGY TO ALL FROM ANDY (Edit - as was locked out)

Just got back from ebike ride around our local castle, woods and parkland and have appointment at docs soon.
https://www.futureelvaston.co.uk/
Had a look for that Toad in hiding - see last picture - but to no avail..:)

In my first comment on this thread I asked in effect and politely as to why, as I see it, you are misleading our readers by "biging up" Hyperbola and each other - just who were you guys trying to fool..?
Our readers maybe - certainly not Andy.

Those with a modicum of intelligence would have spotted that not only was I polite but that I did not do a massive “put-down” by mentioning super efficient Trisquel-mini or my maxed out fully loaded Trisquel-miniMAX, including games, Abrowser, Midori, full latest LibreOffice suite, Gimp and video editing software etc etc coming in at 256MiB RAM last time I looked.

Indeed with my experiment I am trying my best to break it and to slow it down by overloading it with software then doing some multi-tasking whilst online with my phone plugged in too. I cannot break it or slow it down – and I don’t fully understand why – do you?

However last night before hitting the hay I had a quick look on my phone and was horrified by what had inadvertently done here. I could not sleep so hence this apology and plea.
Your topic went almost viral with folks saying they were shipping out to hide their embarrassment; I presume..? Going to some safe place to big each other up and serve up even more **** ****.
Remember - the only person you can impress with a slow poke Harley Davidson is another slow poke Harley Davidson rider..:) You know; just like our wayland kde - downvoting anti-truth groupthink, fanboys and sockpuppets - ooops! ha ha :)

PLEASE GUYS - DO NOT EVER EVER STOP EXPERIMENTING – it keeps me alive and kicking back. This is what has evolved us into humans going back before the DARK AGE in China and the ancient Hellenise – (they do not like being called Greeks) and the Moors of North Africa who brought this knowledge into Europe via Spain and then Trisquel.
Their TV was the night sky. Check out my heroes Archimedes and Pythagoras. So guys do not move on my account – be brave; let us see more screenshots and other evidence like I do. Don’t hide away like a Toad in winter..!

Sorry to inform you - Chimpanzees EXPERIMENT with weapons and tools as do some other creatures. AFAIK the Toad does not as it is a dead branch of Nature's tree of evolution.
However Nature's gift to the Toad; it leaves a nasty highly toxic taste in the mouth as its only defense.. Yuk - Barf out ,,, Gag me with a spoon..

American-Toad-Backyard-Pond-2.jpg
aloniv

I am a translator!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 01/11/2011

Hyperbola updated wget and curl - you do need to update curl with a newer PKGBUILD beforehand - see this thread: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewtopic.php?pid=3529#p3529

$ sudo pacman -Syu
:: Synchronising package databases...
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 104k 100 104k 0 0 141k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 141k
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 1740k 100 1740k 0 0 662k 0 0:00:02 0:00:02 --:--:-- 662k
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 3975k 100 3975k 0 0 657k 0 0:00:06 0:00:06 --:--:-- 731k
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 154k 100 154k 0 0 200k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 199k
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 0
curl: (22) The requested URL returned error: 404 Not Found
:: Starting full system upgrade...
warning: aria2: local (1.35.0-2) is newer than community (1.31.0-1)
warning: gnutls: local (3.6.13-2) is newer than core (3.5.11-1.hyperbola2)
warning: gst-plugins-bad: local (1.12.4-3.parabola1) is newer than extra (1.12.0-1.hyperbola4)
warning: gummi: local (2:0.8.2-1) is newer than community (1:0.6.6-2)
warning: hugin: local (2019.2.0-5) is newer than extra (2016.2.0-5)
warning: nettle: local (3.6-1) is newer than core (3.3-1.hyperbola1)
warning: parole: local (4.16.0-1) is newer than community (0.9.1-1)
warning: python-musicbrainzngs: local (0.7.1-3) is newer than community (0.6-2)
warning: python-mutagen: local (1.42.0-3) is newer than extra (1.37-1)
warning: python-txaio: local (2.7.1-1) is newer than community (2.6.1-1)
warning: rkhunter: local (1.4.6-2) is newer than community (1.4.2-2)
warning: rubyripper: local (0.7.0rc2-1) is newer than community (0.6.2-10)
warning: snappy-player: local (1.0-5) is newer than community (1.0-4)
warning: speedtest-cli: local (2.1.3-1) is newer than community (1.0.3-1)
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...

Packages (3) curl-7.74.0-1.hyperbola1.backports1 curl-debug-7.74.0-1.hyperbola1.backports1
wget-1.21-1.hyperbola1.backports1

Total Download Size: 1.76 MiB
Total Installed Size: 5.31 MiB
Net Upgrade Size: 0.70 MiB

:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n]
:: Retrieving packages...
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 1102k 100 1102k 0 0 385k 0 0:00:02 0:00:02 --:--:-- 385k
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 25087 100 25087 0 0 54655 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 54775
% Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
100 677k 100 677k 0 0 411k 0 0:00:01 0:00:01 --:--:-- 411k
(3/3) checking keys in keyring [###########################################] 100%
(3/3) checking package integrity [###########################################] 100%
(3/3) loading package files [###########################################] 100%
(3/3) checking for file conflicts [###########################################] 100%
(3/3) checking available disk space [###########################################] 100%
:: Processing package changes...
(1/3) upgrading curl [###########################################] 100%
(2/3) upgrading curl-debug [###########################################] 100%
(3/3) upgrading wget [###########################################] 100%
:: Running post-transaction hooks...
(1/1) Updating the info directory file...

lanun
Desconectado/a
se unió: 04/01/2021

This is the thread andyprough pointed to the other day:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/hyperbola-minimalist-libre-distro-and-systemd-free#comment-161054

For a moment I thought I was having a groundhog day.

Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

Andyprough > The latest abrowser will not work with the "stable" version of Hyperbola, since Hyperbola's stable version of the glibc package is too old.<

Hey andyprough thanks so much - I am no longer interested in Hyperbola even if lanun says >That is great: a viable go-to alternative compatible with Abrowser is precious.<

Hey guys what a joke..

Let us take a look at my current stable experiment which not only has Abrowser but Midori too..!
Many more applications and games etc etc - all in at 256MiB
It is so easy to install; a true minimalist OS with LXDE.
It is right under your noses here at Trisquel - see old screenshot from March this year.

DeskTop-miniMax-02.png
andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

>"Many more applications and games etc etc - all in at 256MiB"

But I got 44. Which is about 6 times less than 256.

damidu
Desconectado/a
se unió: 03/30/2021

"Many more applications and games etc etc - all in at 256MiB"

But I got 44. Which is about 6 times less than 256."

You can go even further if you start only the X server with an app. But it's not practical. You can't switch between applications. That's where a window manager is useful.

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

But with dwm or jwm you can run the "desktop" with just between 8O to 12O mb of ram on Hyperbola, which is still around 2 to 3 times less than 256 mb.

Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

Did you guys note that I wrote LXDE...?

Do you guys know what the "DE" is....?
KDE ring a bell or Xfce…?
MATE ring a bell…?
Perhaps Cinnamon…?

So with a Desktop…. Not running like a HEADLESS chicken…:)

lanun > That is great: a viable go-to alternative compatible with Abrowser is precious.<
Is that with DE or HEADLESS....? ..:) Stable or unstable...:)

unstable-Andyprough screenshot vs Andy’s stable Dell overloaded with applications and games...
395MiB vs 256MiB

HyperbolaJwmKit4.jpg DeskTop-miniMax-02.png
andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

My screenshot you posted there has a window manager. Basically it's functioning as a "desktop". And it's quite stable. Very stable, in fact. I think dwm actually crashes less than the big bloaty desktops in my experience. And if it did crash, it would do so gracefully and you would just type 'startx' and be right back where you were. No broken stuff, not like with a big, bloaty desktop.

Andy

I am a member!

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se unió: 02/02/2020

Never had a crash with ubuntu MATE or Trisquel MATE

Never had a crash with Trisquel-mini LXDE or Trisquel-miniMAX LXDE

Never had a crash with GrapheneOS

Think last crash was with Win Vista...

It should be clear that you are the one with the BLOAT and that is without a DE..!
Do you agree..?

Would have thought all that cycling would keep you lean..:)

andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

>"Think last crash was with Win Vista..."

I crash and break things intentionally.

And yes, I have plenty of bloat. As a bike rider, we all know that the heaviest thing on our bikes is our own fat butt.

Andy

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Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

I am trying to break and crash Trisquel-miniMAX by overloading it with applications and then multitasking - playing games with picture in screen etc.

Have you any tips for breaking it with mainstream repository stuff or WHY..?

So far I have not even had a stutter - very disappointed especially as those friendly groopthink wayland fanboys insist it should crash on its own..!

thanks

Legimet
Conectado
se unió: 12/10/2013

Who insisted that Trisquel-mini would crash? I have not seen anyone saying that. All we're saying is that Wayland doesn't have widespread crashes anymore, and those of us who actually use it have not experienced any crashes. Whether Trisquel-mini crashes has no bearing on whether GNOME/KDE on Wayland crashes.

Andy

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se unió: 02/02/2020

Do you acknowledge -

KDE > Showstoppers - "MAJOR BUGS in WAYLAND session but NOT the X11 session.
MAJOR BUGS in WAYLAND session but NOT the X11 session.
MAJOR BUGS in WAYLAND session but NOT the X11 session.
Crashing is just one of many MAJOR BUGS in WAYLAND – loosing your data is another.
Still unable to fix that mess named wayland…? Yes a mess that had existed for 11 years and is still not fixed even now – Oh Dear, what a mess… would you buy a car from them – No Way Bro’!

This information is bang up to date!

This information is also so, so, simple to understand - it is a clear statement of comparison = MAJOR BUGS in WAYLAND session but NOT the X11 session.<

Or do you profess to know better than KDE and others...?

Legimet
Conectado
se unió: 12/10/2013

On that page, I count one bug related to crashes and it has been fixed.

Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

Was it this page .... Lol

To Quote wayland’s devs on just ONE page:

Login/Session management

Session restoring does not include Wayland native windows: Our sessions management recover engine is based on the X Session Management Protocol and there is apparently currently no generic concept to do it on Wayland. But on Qt it's plugin-able and GNOME has had their own implementation for some time.
Windows that *are* session-restored go on the wrong virtual desktops:

KWin/compositing/window management

When the compositor crashes or restarts, all apps are killed:
Changes made to cursor theme/size do not take effect in Qt and XWayland software until the session is restarted (takes effect immediately in GTK software though):
Windows that were closed when maximized will open in the maximized position, but not the maximized state

Plasma

Saving and restoring activities does not work
Monitor connector names are different across X11 and Wayland, so logging into a Wayland session from X11 breaks multimonitor layout and Plasma configs:
faultlessly

Lol you are not even on the same page....ha, ha, Reality Check Page - Lol

Have some great screenshots from that David Edmundson for y'all bull....

Wonky-Wayland-Bug-01.png Wonky-Wayland-Bug-02.png Wonky-Wayland-Bug-03.png Wonky-Wayland-Bug-04.png
andyprough
Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/12/2015

>"I am trying to break and crash Trisquel-miniMAX by overloading it with applications and then multitasking - playing games with picture in screen etc."

Whoop-dee-doo - you just proved to yourself that the Linux kernel actually works like it's supposed to. You must be so proud of yourself.

Legimet
Conectado
se unió: 12/10/2013

Look at the left screenshot. It has Abrowser open, while the right screenshot has only a terminal open. This isn't a fair comparison.

Andy

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Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

As before - a few posts above - you seem to be having difficulty counting...

>On that page, I count one bug related to crashes and it has been fixed.<

You are so funny Dude - You are so misleading giving out entirely false perspective - again and again..

See my response to it... >This information is also so, so, simple to understand - it is a clear statement of comparison = MAJOR BUGS in WAYLAND session but NOT the X11 session.<

Or do you profess to KNOW BETTER than KDE and others like that Dude who's portfolio includes 15 patents, 18 books, several open-source projects, numerous articles published in leading journals and magazines, and presentations at prestigious international conferences like LinuxCon, CloudOpen, OpenStack days, IEEE events, and others?

WELL DO YOU PUNK? (joke) as Dirty Harry would say.

wayland - 11 years a mess and still a humongous mess - Lol

Now we have > Look at the left screenshot. It has Abrowser open, while the right screenshot has only a terminal open. This isn't a fair comparison.<

Hey Dude - Andyprough has already pointed out that the left screenshot does not even have a desktop...! It also does not have....... and on and on...

AFAIK It could not even edit a screenshot graphically or a photo - crap or what..?

damidu
Desconectado/a
se unió: 03/30/2021

Yes, if you like to use the computer graphically and with a mouse, DE are ideal. But they use a lot of memory and cpu.

Stallman was right before graphical interface. He started Emacs and Emacs is a DE about it self. You have a file manager, a web browser, a pdf viewer, an editor, a shell, an image viewer, a mail reader, a rss reader , https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

I am joking :-)

But, if you have time and want to start with the command line some folks have written a book. It's free.
https://static.fsf.org/nosvn/gnu-press/source-files/books/command-line.pdf

This is how I use my computer and what I see on my screen a lot of the time.

2021-10-14-185505_3840x2160_scrot.png
Andy

I am a member!

Desconectado/a
se unió: 02/02/2020

>But they use a lot of memory and cpu.<

Hey Dude in case you have not been keeping up to speed here....

It is the Hyperbola users without a DE here that are using more resource than Trisquel-mini LXDE with a desktop.

That is also true of my Trisquel-miniMAX LXDE X11 Nvidia overloaded with applications.. see screenshot

miniTri-Terminal-free-05.png