A Plea for Help

42 respuestas [Último envío]
SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

Hey everyone!

I just wanted to post a notice to everyone here because I love Trisquel GNU/Linux and Free Software so much! If you know the history of Free Software one of the first goals was to create a 100% Free Software distribution and that goal has been met. There are currently 8 100% Free GNU/Linux distributions (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html) including Trisquel GNU/Linux. The problem now is that was the easy part (to some it may not have seemed that way.) The second part as crazy as it sounds world-wide domination. The goal is for every computer everywhere to actually run on Free Software that leaves the user in control.

With that idea in mind now comes the hard part. We have so many challenges to world-wide adoption of Free Software that we must overcome. We must show people that freedom is what matters and when the open-source movement is much louder this becomes difficult. We have to develop a free phone operating system. We have to combat the many threats to our freedom including DRM, data retention, surveillance, Software as a Service (SaaS). These threats become greater every day. If you have not kept up on tech news Google recently released a new notebook called the “Chromebook” which basically runs entirely on SaaS. The user basically hands over all their data and freedom to google. This is simply to name a few and new threats are being thrown our way every day.

To fend off these threats we have to grow our community. Twenty users in an IRC channel and a few dozen regular users on the message boards is wonderful but we need to start thinking bigger. I really want to commend John Sullivan of the FSF for reaching out and asking for constructive criticism. Firstly it takes guts to stand up and say “please point out all our flaws” and it takes an even bigger man to accept it and try to use the feedback to become better. So I would like to make a plea to all the users out there to do your part and help make Free Software better and help Trisquel GNU/Linux and the FSF because we have a very long road in front of us.

My hope is that every user who happens to read this will take a look at the “how to help page” (https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/how-help) and do at least one of those items. While the economy is still poor right now I ask that anyone with the financial ability please consider becoming FSF and Trisquel associate members. This movement really is grass roots and we don't have any mega corporations or multi-millionare space explorers backing us. We are more like PBS and need help from users like you! Meeting the goal of 100 Trisquel members by years end would be excellent (we are about 1/4th of the way there at the moment). Even if you can't afford to become a member you can still help the project by doing any of the other things mentioned on the list from bug reporting to seeding torrents. You can even simply teach a friend or family member about Free Software and give them a Trisquel CD. Every little bit helps.

So I would love to see Trisquel step out of it's little corner of the internet with ~20 IRC users and 26 Associate members and grow into something wonderful. Please help us make that step and help today and maybe the future will be a lot brighter.

~SirGrant

*Notice this is my own personal opinion and not the opinion of anyone else. Translators feel free to translate this post and post it in the other language forums or anywhere else you see fit.*

tonicucoz
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se unió: 11/09/2009

I love Trisquel too

I can say that collecting hardware is one of the most critical points so I would like to have some thousands devices that is known to work with free software.

I'm working hard to finish a simple client to send the hardware information to h-node. It can be already used to submit the information. I'm also working to make the submission process also possible for the users that

tonicucoz
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se unió: 11/09/2009

sorry.. second part

I'm working hard to finish a simple client to send the hardware information to h-node. It can be already used to submit the information. I'm also working to make the submission process also possible for the users that do not have a h-node account.

If we have more than 10 thousand Trisquel users we could have a lot of information. I've also set up the following domain for the testing of the client:
www.sandbox.h-node.com

If we are able to automatically obtain information from each Trisquel user we could really make it easy to use Trisquel itsel, because it will be really simple to find a computer working with it

I would like to ask the community to download the client and test it.

to download the client:

svn co svn://svn.savannah.nongnu.org/h-source/trunk/h-client

to run it:

python hclient.py

(you need to install pycurl)

It's not always possible to buy a new working hardware, we could at least say users what hardware they have to buy ;)

thanks

tonicucoz
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se unió: 11/09/2009

sorry again..

to submit hardware information by means of the client you have currently to create a new account at sandbox.h-node.com

May you please report bugs at Savannah, h-source project ?

thanks again

Antonio

SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

I would agree! Hardware can be a big hickup when it comes to free software. It does unfortunately annoy users when their printer/wireless card/whatever doesn't work without non-free drivers. More user data on hardware is great. If this could be integrated w/ Trisquel as some sort of survey that would be awesome. Maybe put into the installer it could ask the user if in 24 hours they want to take a survey that would be submitted to h-node about if their hardware works.

Something like this maybe:
We detected the following hardware for you:
Printer: HP blah blah
Does it work? (Yes) (No) (Partially (Please explain)
Wireless Card: Netgear blah blah
Does it work? (Yes) (No) (Partially (Please explain)
Ect.

tonicucoz
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se unió: 11/09/2009

> I would agree!  Hardware can be
> a big hickup when it comes to free software.  It does
> unfortunately annoy users when their printer/wireless
> card/whatever doesn't work without non-free drivers. 
> More user data on hardware is great.  If this could be
> integrated w/ Trisquel as some sort of survey that would be
> awesome.  Maybe put into the installer it could ask the
> user if in 24 hours they want to take a survey that would be
> submitted to h-node about if their hardware works.
>
> Something like this maybe:
> We detected the following hardware for you:
> Printer: HP blah blah
> Does it work? (Yes) (No) (Partially (Please explain)
> Wireless Card: Netgear blah blah
> Does it work? (Yes) (No) (Partially (Please explain)
> Ect.
>
>

Yes the survey is a very good idea, I hope I will be able to implement it as soon as possible. At the current stage I've already wrote a python library (it is the hlibrary.py file inside client folder) to make a lot of nice things: choose the server, login/logout to the server, submit new hardware, synchronize with the XML database of the server and so on. The library can be used to build the desired GUI

I'm finishing the GUI and I have also to prepare the server for anonymous submission (users that do not have an account).

It would be nice to build a simple application to make survey and submit information. I'm not sure if it have to be linked to the existing client (GUI) or if it has to be a stand alone application.

Anyway, the client already try to obtain as much information as possible (name, vendorid:productid code, distribution used) and the user has only to indicate if it works or not

If some of you can help in the coding of the Python client it would be very nice :)

> More user data on hardware is great. If this could be
> integrated w/ Trisquel as some sort of survey that would be
> awesome. Maybe put into the installer it could ask the
> user if in 24 hours they want to take a survey that would be
> submitted to h-node about if their hardware works.
>

Yes, I hope this will be the future

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

About the hardware submission, I think Ubuntu have a hardware submission tool already installed by default. I remember seeing it. It asks if you want to submit your hardware list. It's a GUI accessible somewhere in the apps/system/admin menus. Maybe that could be re-used by Trisquel, if its GPL.

tonicucoz
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se unió: 11/09/2009

yes, it's name is checkbox-gtk. I'm trying to build something similar but that could be adapted to the h-node server

> About the hardware submission, I
> think Ubuntu have a hardware submission tool already
> installed by default. I remember seeing it. It asks if you
> want to submit your hardware list. It's a GUI accessible
> somewhere in the apps menu. Maybe that could be re-used by
> Trisquel, if its GPL.
>

Cyberhawk

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se unió: 07/27/2010

SirGrant, if I were you, I'd be more cautious when using the words "world domination" :P But overall, you are totally right. I'll get a job with a steady income in September, so October is probably when I'll become a member of at least Trisquel.

Regarding the hardware, why can't we just recommend the h-node site for everyone and ask to submit there? They already have a decent database, no need to start over with some submission tool built into the OS.

SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

World domination was a tongue in cheek statement. As far as the hardware submission tool the idea IS to use H-node. However the tool would simply make things easier. Instead of the user having to go out of their way to make an account on the h-node website and look up each model and vendor for each piece of hardware they would just have to fill out a couple check boxes if their hardware works and the software would automatically submit it. It should also in theory detect the hardware ID's and names. The hope is that it would make the process a lot easier and a lot more people would participate growing the database.

Also congrats on the job! That is always good news!

adherry

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se unió: 04/19/2011

We germans can help by teaching the FSF how to make a Blitzkrieg.

A form would be a good idea maybe we can add some option that user can rate hw from other computers that aren't able to do this form.

Cyberhawk

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se unió: 07/27/2010

Just make sure you don't teach them how to start a war on several fronts at the same time :D

adherry

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se unió: 04/19/2011

We only lost because we have not started the war half a year earlyer (uk would have been unprepared) and attacked Russia in summer (faild like napoleon in russian Winter). But im sure the FSF will remember that

Cyberhawk

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se unió: 07/27/2010

Yep, Russian winter is always a problem, the country is just too huge to take it over during the summer.

Now that we've learned from past mistakes, I'm sure FSF will conquer the world in no time!

slackjaw
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se unió: 05/10/2011

Hi, my name is Mark and I'm trying to get into GNU/Linux and free software. I haven't booted Windows in several months, which is a record for me. I'm a mathematics professor at a masters-level university in the US, and I hope I can use my position to begin spreading the word about free software.

I've been using Trisquel for a few weeks now, and I really enjoy it. Using free software makes me feel more like a member of a community, and less like a consumer. I find myself thinking more about what's important in other areas of life as well. (For instance, I'm considering becoming vegan, but that's still in the future. Also, long walks with my dog aren't breaks from the important stuff anymore; they are the important stuff. (Go Cesar Millan!))

By the way, I love the log-in sound for Trisquel so much. Can I get some info on who made it and what software was used to make it? Of course, things are so stable, I don't hear the login sound too often. :)

I recently joined the Free Software Foundation as an Associate Member and bought 5 or so T-shirts.

I have a few thoughts/suggestions/observations to offer for the Trisquel website, in the spirit of helpfulness:

1. When I try to join as an associate member, I am sent to a paypal page that is not in English (despite the fact that the page I had been reading was in English), but I'm not so good at reading other languages, and I'm especially concerned when it deals with money. Is there some way I could choose a paypal site that is in English and uses US dollars?

2. On the list of links on the right side of the Trisquel homepage, there is an option for Donate but none for Associate Membership. Perhaps these two ideas could be consolidated into one link on the main page, and then the user could make a choice on the next page after clicking the link? (I see that the new Associate Membership Program is listed in the main part of the page, but that will eventually leave the main page, and I have to scroll down to see it on my system, since I like big text.)

3. Under the FAQ link, under How can I help the project?, there is no mention of Donate or Associate Membership.

4. The suggested amount for associate membership is more than what it cost me to join the Free Software Foundation as an associate member. I don't know if that could dissuade some people; it's a minor point. However, it may be that lots of people are finding out about Trisquel from the FSF (like myself, even though I had heard about it from the Slashdot announcement for Slaine.) Of course, they can join with less, it's just a minor observation.

Please don't take these as criticisms, and also let me know if I have missed something.

Thanks to everyone involved with Trisquel. Keep up the good work!

Mark (slackjaw)

SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

In response to your questions.

1) I believe the page is in Spanish. That is actually a problem I would contact the webadmin (http://trisquel.info/en/contact) and point that out that the paypal site should be in English if you come from the English page. They don't allow you to convert to USD $ unfortunately because of paypal here. The main Dev is in Spain so he deals in Euros and when you accept payments in more currencies they take a greater percentage of what you send so it causes issues.

2) I agree, you may want to mention this if you contact them. If you don't want to contact them let me know and I'll contact them.

3) Also a good idea. This page needs to be updated and is locked to most normal users so only an admin can update it. Should be noted.

4) If you can't do the suggested amount do the minimum which is 5 eur which today equates to about ~$7. Like I said in (1) paypal makes it hard to accept multiple currencies so since the project is in Spain they did Euros. Also if a person chooses to become a member at 5 eur a month paying the minimum they are treated the exact same as someone who pays 10, 20, or 100 eur a month.

ruben
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se unió: 09/24/2010

> 1. When I try to join as an associate member, I am sent to a paypal
> page that is not in English (despite the fact that the page I had
> been reading was in English), but I'm not so good at reading other
> languages, and I'm especially concerned when it deals with money. Is
> there some way I could choose a paypal site that is in English

It should be fixed now.

> and uses US dollars?

Sorry, this can't be done. We can allow only one currency, otherwise we
would need to provide exchange tables and rates, and review them
constantly. Also, they charge us more to accept those, so it is only
an option for donations.

> 2. On the list of links on the right side of the Trisquel homepage,
> there is an option for Donate but none for Associate Membership.

True, I'll add it to my to-do.

> 3. Under the FAQ link, under How can I help the project?, there is
> no mention of Donate or Associate Membership.

Feel free to improve that.

> 4. The suggested amount for associate membership is more than what
> it cost me to join the Free Software Foundation

And less than the FSFE suggested amount. It is just a suggestion. :)

slackjaw
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se unió: 05/10/2011

Thanks SirGrant and Rubén for the quick replies, suggestions, and fixes. I didn't realize I could edit the FAQ. I did go ahead and edit it. Point taken about the FSFE; I checked out their website. I'm happy to say I have joined Trisquel as an Associate Member.

Keep up the good work.

SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

I also wasn't aware the FAQ can be edited by us. I don't see an edit button but maybe I'm missing it.

slackjaw
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se unió: 05/10/2011

You have to click on the title once more than you might expect. To be specific, if you go here:

https://trisquel.info/en/faq#n1867

then click the title, "How can I help the project?", maybe you will see the edit button.

I'm going to add something about visiting the store to purchase T-shirts and gear, and then I'm going to take that advice and buy some T-shirts.

Mark

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

Just on a slightly different but related note ..... what the hell are all those people in Microsoft doing?

If a small community of volunteers, committed programmers and supporters can produce an operating system as good as this?

Answers on a postcard please ;)

gobusto

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se unió: 02/07/2010

Just on a slightly different but related note ..... what the hell are all those people in Microsoft doing?

If a small community of volunteers, committed programmers and supporters can produce an operating system as good as this?

The small community of dedicated programmers working on the ReactOS project have been working for over a decade, and it is still officially in Alpha stage.

Let's not be unfair about this - if developing operating systems were that easy, HURD would have been finished long ago. To suggest that a community of thousands of people working for years on various FLOSS projects is "small" is stretching the definition a bit.

ruben
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se unió: 09/24/2010

> If a small community of volunteers, committed programmers and
> supporters can produce an operating system as good as this?

The community of free software developers is far from small!

AndrewT

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se unió: 12/28/2009

The free software community is a glorious example of decentralized, spontaneous organization, I think.

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

I didn't say the community of free software developers was small. I was talking about Trisquel only. My comment should be read in the context of this thread, titled A Plea for Help, part of the first post reads:

>So I would love to see Trisquel step out of it's little corner of the >internet with ~20 IRC users and 26 Associate members and grow into something >wonderful. Please help us make that step and help today and maybe the future >will be a lot brighter.

... and here's what I said:

> If a small community of volunteers, committed programmers and
> supporters can produce an operating system as good as this?

I seem to have been misunderstood completely. My comment refers to Trisquel, that you've done so much with so little and was intended as a compliment.

ruben
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se unió: 09/24/2010

> I seem to have been misunderstood completely. My comment refers to
> Trisquel, that you've done so much with so little and was intended as
> a compliment.

I know, and I appreciate it, but what I meant is that who really
deserves the credit are the thousands of hackers out there writing the
code we distribute. :)

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

Yes, I completely agree. I realise Trisquel, and all other GNU/Linux operating systems, are the culmination of many years of work by many different developers working in diverse software projects. They rightly deserve our thanks and praise.

Regarding the help for Trisquel, wouldn't it make better sense if all the FSF-approved and sponsored operating system developers joined together to combine their effort?

Michał Masłowski

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se unió: 05/15/2010

> Regarding the help for Trisquel, wouldn't it make better sense if all
> the FSF-approved and sponsored operating system developers joined
> together to combine their effort?

I see some advantages for having multiple free distros:

- it's easier to support different hardware basing on different upstream
distros (gNewSense supports mipsel like Debian (but free and with
kernel only for YeeLoong), since Ubuntu doesn't it would be difficult
for Trisquel)

- I like using newer software and reliably updating it when I want, not
when the upstream distro decides to make a release once per a long
time, some people have opposite opinion on this, no distro would
replace systems used by people with both points of view

- it can be more difficult for new contributors to make deep changes to
a distro based on a distro based on another distro, although for most
uses this approach has very good results

- potential new users usually already know a nonfree distro

Most freedom-related problems are found once and reported to other free
distros via a common mailing list and listed at [0]. The list looks
relatively Debian-specific, not listing packages from Debian's nonfree
repository (so e.g. nonfree modules in the Python package of other
upstream distros are not listed), but this is being improved.

Fixing these problems usually needs some changes in code/finding
replacements which aren't distro-specific and small packaging changes.

Do you know other issues where some combining of efforts would be needed?

[0]
http://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_F...

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

While there may be some benefits in having multiples free distros, I suppose I come at this issue from a very different angle. I believe, if you have limited resources, it makes no sense to divide them, it's better to concentrate your efforts.

AndrewT

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se unió: 12/28/2009

Well, we're pretty much the only fully-free distribution that I and most others could bear to use, anyway.

Cyberhawk

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se unió: 07/27/2010

Far from it, I like Trisquel over many other distributions, like Fedora or Debian. Debian is certainly an important piece of software, but I wouldn't use it on it's own. The packages are just too old most of the time. It's a small wonder that there is a distro, which is pretty much perfect for me and it just happens to be a fully free one.

AndrewT

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se unió: 12/28/2009

Oh, I certainly didn't mean to imply that using Trisquel is somehow "tolerably painful," because I think we're also one of the best distributions, period.

SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

I personally agree with this. Why do we need both Trisquel and gNewSense? Both have similar goals such as offering a Free Desktop. The only reason I would see for using gNewSense over Trisquel is if you want to use the lemote laptop (MIPS architecture) like RMS has. However what if the gNewSense devs worked on Trisquel and we had a MIPS port. It might be better then having 2 similar Debian and Ubuntu based distros just to have one REALLY good one.

Cyberhawk

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se unió: 07/27/2010

That would be the best option, I'd really like to see combined efforts from many different distributions to create something better. I have an utopian idea about cutting all the distros down to to: an OpenGNU and a FreeGNU, the Open one uses all the firmware blobs and non-free parts that make for better hardware support, the FreeGNU obviously focuses on freedom. The OpenGNU would be kind of a playground, needed if full support through free drivers isn't quite there. Both distros should be Debian based, so no problems would arise because of different packaging methods.

But some things, probably, aren't meant to be in our decentralized community. The guys behind gNewSense probably think their stuff is the best thing since sliced bread and Trisquel just copied their ideas. It's kind of the same with all distros actually :P

adherry

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se unió: 04/19/2011

I dont think that this is a good way. The Advantage of having multiple distros is to have a os that is more "fitting" the MS way with just having one os with eat-or-die should not be copied. For example i dislike Debian, since you need some time to configure it, its release cycle that may be nice for the Devs or the Stability but you never know when you get a update for Software x with the next major release.

Sudo is also not in all Distributions. There are people who does not like it so they can be happy with Distros not having it. Only having 2 Distributions sound to me more like Linux 7

aloniv

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se unió: 01/11/2011

I believe gNewSense doesn't support non-free video and audio formats out-of-the-box so it is better suited for countries that impose software patents (and thus it can also be sold pre-installed in laptops there without needing to pay patent groups).

SirGrant

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se unió: 07/27/2010

This fact alone doesn't seem to warrant a whole different distro IMO. I understand something like Musix which has a niche or something like UTUTO which is gentoo based. However this simple problem could be solved by a tickbox in the installer saying do you want to install an OEM (I think this is the proper term here) version without patented audio/video codecs.

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

I suggest a donation button be placed on the Trisquel download page with a recommended donation of €2/$2.

Total downloads since Trisquel 2.0 release are 76,840. If a donation button had been there since then, and just 10% of people donated, it would have raised over €15,000.

adherry

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se unió: 04/19/2011

Problem is that paypal holds a lot of the money when you send small amounts

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

Try BitCoins instead: http://www.bitcoin.org/

They're already accepted as donations by the FSF: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/bitcoins-a-new-way-to-donate-to-the-fsf

adherry

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se unió: 04/19/2011

What about Flattr http://flattr.com/

Cyberhawk

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se unió: 07/27/2010

Problem with Bitcoins is, it is rather difficult to turn them into other online types of currency (or real money) and back. You'd pay fees comparable to using other online types of currency, at least that was what I found when I looked into making international transfers with them.

BinaryDigit
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se unió: 11/30/2010

Yeah maybe so, I don't know much about BitCoins or Flattr. Well whatever the payment method there should still be a donation button on the download page.

I think asking for a donation for the download would be a good thing and a relatively easy way to get some cash in. The reason I suggested €2/$2/£2 is because I think almost everyone can afford that, and its a reasonable amount to contribute just for the download.

Probably PayPal would be the best option; the easier it is to donate, the more people will do it. Do PayPal have a reduced rate for non-profit/community organisations? Also if the volume of donations is large maybe Trisquel could negotiate a lower fee.