Development of Trisquel 8.0 "Flidas" Software proposal by category : Internet

45 réponses [Dernière contribution]
Mangy Dog

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SalmanMohammadi
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A rejoint: 02/23/2012

or IceCat

Mangy Dog

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-Transmission or Deluge
-Liferea
-Pidgin

t3g
t3g
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A rejoint: 05/15/2011

Is Chromium in a better place from a libre perspective than it was years ago?

Magic Banana

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t3g
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I'm kinda confused. It says the Ubuntu "license check" but Chromium has been in Ubuntu for a long time now. Plus, many of these posts are from 2009 and it is almost 2017. Its a shame that there are still issues (or they say there are) and there are less alternatives for Trisquel.

grimlok
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A rejoint: 04/16/2013

I'd rather not promote Chromium, because wouldn't that help legitimize Google's own surveillance browser?

grimlok

gnulux
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A rejoint: 06/17/2015

Transmission seems clearer than Deluge.

Liferea is far from essential since Thunderbird can retrieve RSS.

Pidgin and OTR

Mangy Dog

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not everyone uses Thunderbird : Sylpheed & Claws Mail can be better for low resource computers
Seeing Liferea was in the previous versions

strypey
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A rejoint: 05/14/2015

I know very few people who use offline email clients at all. IceDove would be a better choice than Thunderbird, and also provides support XMPP and IRC. A client for GNU Social and other free code social media apps would be great, but I can't suggest one.

Mangy Dog

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not everyone uses Thunderbird : Sylpheed & Claws Mail can be better for low resource computers

Liferea was in the previous versions

gnulux
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A rejoint: 06/17/2015

Ok, low resources. Yet we’re talking about Trisquel Mate, aren’t we?

Tails dropped Claws Mail in favor of Thunderbird on Gnome, that’s why I didn’t think of ClawsMail.

Mangy Dog

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Thunderbird is fine for mail as default, Liferea was by default and i quite like that ;-) it's out of the box feed ...

Dave_Hunt

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A rejoint: 09/19/2011

icedove/thunderbird for email, calendar, tasklists, etc... Thunderbird and abrowser can both can handle rss. Thumbs up for deluge. Is electrum still a reasonable default?

Mangy Dog

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Is electrum still a reasonable default?
Spot on Dave..forgot about that !

albertoefg
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A rejoint: 04/21/2016

I think there are more things to look at that just how heavy in resources it is.

Being really important the language documentation and support.

Thunderbird/Icedove has a lot of help in many languages.

Not everyone speaks english, and even people who understand it a little don't always like to read it to solve a problem as they found it difficult.

I haven't use clawmail, but looking through documentation doesn't seem to have another language.

Dave_Hunt

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A rejoint: 09/19/2011

Two thumbs up to Alberto. I think we have to consider usability concerns like availability of help, multi-lingual options, ease of setup and use, and accessibility.

Telstar
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A rejoint: 08/17/2011

I agree with albertoefg, lightweightness might not be prior #1 in default roll. IMHO accessibility and language supp goes before in the default roll.

However, I do see a case for trisquel-mini. Even there a basic feeling of trisquel is is good to be kept. Going dwm + uzbl + mc + st might not be it. There's always netinstall for very tiny setups. :)

jofazepa
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A rejoint: 11/25/2016

I would go for:

- icecat
- claws mail
- pidgin
- deluge
- liferea
- weechat (with or without gui frontend)
- ekiga

Ignacio.Agullo
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A rejoint: 09/29/2009

-I suppose we'll need the Remmina/Vinagre duo again.
-A softphone, like Ekiga.
-A downloader. Ever hated the emule/bitTorrent dilemma - rather than Transmission, I would like Shareaza.
-FileZilla.
-Evolution or Icedove? I'm all for Icedove.
-A RSS reader, I suppose it will be Liferea. Yes, in spite of Icedove already being able to read RSS. We are not making this basic Trisquel for ourselves (we'll install everything we want anyway), we are making it for the people in general. Liferea works straight out-of-the-box, handles RSS in a more usable way than Icedove does.
-Empathy or Pidgin? So far Pidgin (with OTR plug-in) does it for me. Pity that Facebook, MSN, and Yahoo! made their services incompatible with Pidgin. I still use it for Google Talk and IRC tough.

strypey
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A rejoint: 05/14/2015

* Ekiga? I vote no. I've never managed to get it to work, and WebRTC systems like Meet.jit.si and Palava.tv make a local app for voice/ video chat obselete. Put Ekiga in the repos for anyone who knows how to use it and wants to.
* I vote for Transmission. It's always worked fine for me and it's cross-platform, which means there's a better chance someone migrating to Trisquel from Windows or MacOSX will have used it. Does anyone even use eMule anymore?
* Filezilla? I vote no. I haven't used an FTP client for at least a decade, CMS have made them mostly obselete. Put it in the repos for those who want to use it.
* I abstain on the question of email client. I mostly use webmail, but I can see an argument for encouraging people to keep their own mail on their local drive, managed via a local client. If I had to choose I would prefer IceDove to Evolution.
* Does anyone other than ubergeeks like us actually use RSS? Confession: I don't :P
* Does anyone use local IM clients? If we need it, Pidgin is a good choice, as it's cross-platform (see my point on Transmission).

Ignacio.Agullo
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A rejoint: 09/29/2009

We have a small disagreement I think is worth a bit of discussion...:
-Ekiga: since, like, 2009, everytime I install a new system I look for Ekiga, install it if absent, and try to make it work... and fail. Still, I am willing to give it more chances. There's got to be an alternative to closed-source Skype and WhatsApp.
-I suppose not much people use FileZilla, so it might not need to be present in the beginners' set.
-An email client is the only way I know of getting guaranteed encrypted-e-mail extreme-to-extreme (now I have run out of hyphens). Yes, very few of my correspondants use encryption, and most of my mail goes unencrypted, but I want to keep the door open for that to change, and that door is offering everybody Icedove+Enigmail so they can start using encryption any moment they feel like doing it.
-I take advantage of this post to say that any of Abrowser/IceCat are good for me, I forgot to mention them on my original post.

onpon4
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A rejoint: 05/30/2012

> There's got to be an alternative to closed-source Skype and WhatsApp.

Yes... it's called Jitsi. Or you can use Pidgin. Either through any XMPP server, or in the case of Jitsi, through meet.jit.si (I gather that the latter is easier, but haven't tried it yet).

hack and hack
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A rejoint: 04/02/2015

meet.jit.si is OK, but unreliable:
It worked fine once, and not at all another one.
That was a fine way to make free software unattractive to the person I was trying to reach. The first time made an impression though, but the second impression was more impactful.

As for Jitsi itself, when it works, it's great.
The problem is, at first you have to dig through the multiple choice window and figure out you need an xmpp account after a long while (There's the possibility of SIP, Facebook and some other stuff... It's great to have options, but it's better to keep it simple and make one option more obvious than others. (And explaining the process should be done there, it takes only one line of text).

Even creating account isn't an easy task.
I recently tried to create two adresses (I think it was on the Jappix website: one worked, the other didn't. Great...

But it's not supposed to be stable yet (I think).

Legimet
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A rejoint: 12/10/2013

What about Ring? It looks promising, but I haven't tried it.

hack and hack
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A rejoint: 04/02/2015

Me neither.
Judging from the FAQ, I'd need to create a SIP account.
The steps should be manageable for me, but not for say my parents.

Also I'm not sure I can remotely control another PC with Ring, but Jitsi has that (with minor issues here and there, but acceptable).

quantumgravity
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A rejoint: 04/22/2013

In theory, you don't have to use a desktop app in order to encrypt your mail. In a web application, javascript can take care of this - and no, I'm not talking about proprietary, automatically executed javascript. A libre browser plugin could do the job.
Javascript encrypts your text and sends it to some server (using jquery's $.post(), for instance), that doesn't have the ability to unencrypt. The server script then does the actual transmission.

I think such a plugin doesn't exist yet, and it may be difficult to make it convenient, but still I wanted to point out that mail encryption is not neccesarily tied to the desktop.

Pandya
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A rejoint: 11/11/2014
Allanitomwesh
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A rejoint: 10/24/2015

IceCat
IceDove
qBittorrent
unar
Bluefish editor

peter_gk
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A rejoint: 11/30/2016

Seamonkey? Still strong as I see, I use it much. irc, editor in it.

what about filezilla? I know the password issue thing....

iptraf
mtr

Majin Buu
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A rejoint: 11/05/2016

I think that these apps included by default (for Internet) are fine:

-IceCat with LibreJS
-Icedove with Enigmail
-Pidgin
-Ekiga
-Transmission

peter_gk
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A rejoint: 11/30/2016

-Pidgin with OTR

Chicuei
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A rejoint: 05/04/2016

I like this, but I prefer qBittorrent instead of Transmission.

peter_gk
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A rejoint: 11/30/2016

I still drop in Seamonkey, it has everything in one. add some addons and good

SuperTramp83

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A rejoint: 10/31/2014

+224232 for the monkey of the sea

ryanpcmcquen
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A rejoint: 12/16/2016

It'd be nice to see Midori as an option: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Midori

Majin Buu
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A rejoint: 11/05/2016

But Midori is incompatible with Firefox extensions!

Ra
Ra
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A rejoint: 07/23/2014

Yes, there should be a Trisquel mini version again. But Midori should only be the default browser again when this crucial bug is fixed:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/trouble-ssl-midori-trisquel-mini
I don't know whether there's a connection, but this Midori issue also sounds important:
https://trisquel.info/en/issues/20634
And Trisquel mini should contain Claws as email program, it is better than Sylpheed.

onpon4
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A rejoint: 05/30/2012

Unfortunately, any WebKit browser is currently insecure on just about any distro that isn't rolling-release. A user who is interested in using Midori on Trisquel can fix that by installing the WebKit PPA. Maybe Trisquel could merge that PPA in with its repository as well, but I don't know if it would be worth it.

cantor
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A rejoint: 04/08/2015

IceCat+LibreJS
Links2
Icedove+enigmail
Pidgin+otr
Transmission

gnulux
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A rejoint: 06/17/2015

I wish Abrowser would adopt the name and icon of the late Iceweasel, this may seem superficial but a nice name and icon are nice. I also wish, if at all possible of course, that this browser would be the solution to at least some of our privacy headaches. Of course, we can each of us edit the about:config settings to our hearts’ content, and there’s some kind of basic guide in the Trisquel documentation. And not everyone wants the same settings. So, it’s a complicated subject.

Icedove/Thunderbird versus Clawsmail: perhaps the Enigmail extension makes it easier for eveybody to start encrypting their emails, and that’s a good thing.
It seems also important to use an email client rather than a webmail, as Riseup.net explains very well.

Jitsi meet https://meet.jit.si/ has some problems, to my mind. Apparently, it doesn’t work terribly well on a DSL connection (Fiber-optic is best, so some people say) , and the platform is hosted on Amazon CDN.
Jitsi, as a program, is perhaps free from such drawbacks, though Java doesn’t make light programs, it seems.

IrishUSA
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A rejoint: 12/03/2016

The word "weasel" in Iceweasel makes the name a problem. Weasels are unpopular animals, and one of the common definitions of the word "weasel" is of an untrustworthy, dishonest, even cowardly person.

The issue of offensive, off-putting, confusing, obscure, or simply irrelevant names and/or logos in free software has long been one of my top pet peeves. We face so many barriers to a world of freedom, and then we impose self-inflicted ones too.

IrishUSA
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A rejoint: 12/03/2016

Elaborating further on my previous response, I think Claws Mail also has an unnecessarily strange and off-putting name and logo.

Claws are sharp instruments of imposing harm. In everyday speech, the word when applied to people is harshly negative: "Get your claws off my such and such." Having and using claws not only imparts characteristics like aggression, but is also dehumanizing. Why would anyone want to apply such things to himself?

And then the logo. http://www.claws-mail.org/img/sc-bar-right.png

A green, reptilian foot or hand bursting out from within a globe to grab some mail envelopes. Humans tend to be repelled by reptiles. And since the claws have done harm to the world in the picture, they were a sinister force lurking from within it before they emerged. Their grasp on the envelopes also seems to be aggressive, as if they are seizing someone else's mail.

Finally, as if all that weren't enough, the official Claws Project website has this already-terrible logo over an even worse slogan or motto: "it bites!" Directly implying aggression and harm in any language, and in colloquial American English, also specifically implies that the product in question is of very bad quality!

WHY do free software projects do this to themselves, and to the free software movement in general?!?

At this point, discussion of Claws' limitations like inability to write HTML email, is superfluous.

IrishUSA
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A rejoint: 12/03/2016

For email clients, I would vote for Evolution. Since LibreOffice unfortunately lacks an Outlook equivalent, users have to look elsewhere for that. Evolution fits the bill nearly perfectly, handling not only email, but also contacts, calendar, tasks, and some basic note-taking functions, together with being able to handle scheduling on a network. Remember that Trisquel is intended for small business as well as individual home users.

Furthermore, Trisquel's default UI look and feel is meant to be familiar for novices and first time users coming from Windows. And similarly, Evolution closely matches Outlook's user interface.

If there's anything I would change in Evolution, it's the name, in keeping with my longtime gripe about free software projects making poor choices in their names and/or logos. While the Evolution logo is fine, the name, while not being as extremely bad as Iceweasel or Claws Mail, is still not as good as it could be. Yes, "Evolution" as a name can be defended on the grounds that it implies that it is being continuously improved upon, or that it is better than other programs. However, it does not convey what the program does, and also introduces an unnecessarily distracting and divisive element: the evolution vs. creation controversy.

I hasten to state that I ACCEPT the scientific mainstream on evolution AND DO NOT agree with creationism. PLEASE DO NOT waste everyone's time by denigrating me on the assumption that I'm a creationist, or by denigrating / dismissing creationists or posting refutations of creationism.

But advocates should not underestimate the importance of this issue. Gallup polling in the USA http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evolution-creationism-intelligent-design.aspx shows that by far the biggest portion of US public opinion on this issue continues to believe that "God created humans in their present form" - a plurality of 42%, and has never been lower than this number. The next position, that "Humans evolved, with God guiding the process", is far behind at 31%. The idea that humans evolved, with God having no part in the process, is a tiny minority at 19%.

My point is that regardless of how true evolution is and how wrong creationism is, and even granting that this is an important issue to debate and win on, the name of an Outlook-equivalent computer program is an inappropriate place to make that case, and also constitutes an entirely unnecessary self-imposed barrier to the adoption of this program specifically and even free software in general.

Since one of the great benefits of freedom is the ability to just copy a program and change an aspect of it, even something as small as the name, I propose doing the same with the Trisquel version of Evolution. Call it "Overview", which is similar to "Outlook" and which would, like "Outlook", refer to a feature within the program where you can get an Outlook or Overview of your entire day, such as the most recent or important emails, and your upcoming tasks and schedule items. It still doesn't directly inform the viewer what it does, but the alliteration between "Outlook" and "Overview", plus the logo of an envelope and clock, will provide some big hints.

IrishUSA
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A rejoint: 12/03/2016

For the web, I advocate Abrowser simply on the basis of being a very straightforward, obvious name and logo without anything off-putting or requiring explanation.

A web browser is the most important program in any operating system or distribution, which is reflected by the fact that nearly every one of them (including Trisquel) has the icon for its default browser immediately visible on startup / login, either on the desktop, in a dock, or in a panel, with no need to search for it or launch any menus. This makes the choice of name and icon for the web browser the most important of any application in the OS or distro.

With that being the case, having the web browser be called "Abrowser" with an icon of a pointer on a globe (implying the world-wide web) is perfectly satisfactory.

danish
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A rejoint: 02/19/2017

I wouldn't recommend Deluge. The proxy support is broken and has been left as such for years now, meaning you think you are safely redirecting traffic over proxy/vpn but actually aren't.