just told my facebook friends that I'm leaving
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Well, it's a status update, so they'll see it if they see it.
"I left facebook a year or two ago because I got uncomfortable with it tracking people. I've been back for a few months now; I decided to compromise to keep in touch with friends. But I regret supporting facebook.
I don't like that facebook tracks which non-facebook web pages I look at. I feel the same way about the company working to associate commercial loyalty card purchase history with our accounts.
I don't like that it uses face-recognition for photos either. Especially because facebook asks us to name people in photos. And to report people who don't use their real names here.
Its spam filter has a history of suppressing certain political news. Facebook said that it was an accident, for at least one such incident. Whether one or all were accidents, it shows that people should not to use popular centralized services as news aggregators.
These are some things that I remember or have read about. I'm not sure how much of this still happens, or how much more they've thought up. I've decided not to participate based on their record.
We can keep in touch in other ways. Here's my contact info"
Well done and said!
You state your reasons, and everyone who wants to see things as they are will agree with you. And you put some other contacts there, which is great, you are not closing the door to your friends, just trying to get them moving to another place, a safer place. The ones who do follow you you might actually try to tell them about the problems that arise with Windows, Google (gmail too), Yahoo, Amazon, etc.
You probably know already alternatives already, but here are a few:
Tormail and Lavabit for email (also, USE GPG!!)
Trisquel (obviously) or maybe they will at least be willing to "try the linux thing" and install Mint or Ubuntu. You can always make them move later to Trisquel.
Startpage and Duckduckgo for search engines.
You know the drill.
Anyway, I congratulate you on your decision. Bravo!!
Nice! But did anyone actually go to chat with you via other ways? Most of my so-called Facebook friends simply replied with "I know and I don't care, there's nothing I'm hiding anyway".
Regarding Tormail, it's offline due to the FH takedown. :(
Best to run your own mail server, and much safer I would imagine.
Unfortunately that's the same thing I hear from people when I talk about Tor, and about how facebook and google are evil, and all of that.
Are people blind, or they just like to get screwed time and time again??
Didn't know tormail was down, thanks for the heads up.
Tor is in hot water now with the FBI after this Irishman used it for a child porn ring. Apparently the feds were able to get it due to an exploit in Firefox 17: http://www.itpro.co.uk/public-sector/20343/fbi-allegedly-used-browser-vulnerability-target-child-abuse-ring
I'm just sort of quietly fading away from Facebook. Except I'm cheating because I still log on to chat via XMPP client.
Kudos for broadcasting to your friends why you are leaving.
I'd been deactivating and activating my FB account for some time then saw Stallman for the first time here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUJtMlEwd6Q. After that I deleted FB and most of my other commercial accounts. Been watching a lot of his lectures lately and really like his philosophy and especially enjoy his determination.
Also been using Ubuntu for a few years and decided to go all in and switch to Trisquel. It feels great to know everything is free. The only thing I haven't found a good replacement for is email. Got rid of gmail and using my own domain hosted on Dreamhost for now. I like the idea of setting up my own mail server but right now I'm in a situation where I don't have a static IP.
Any suggestions on the email front?
Client or webmail? Gmail is ok if you turn off the use of its non-free JavaScript code.
>Gmail is ok
Unless you care about privacy.
Sure, but that's the problem with virtually any email service. The only real solution is to create an own web-server with an own web-mail instance (troublesome, not a real solution for most people). In other words, every data located outside of your house is public.
I am a member!
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Actually, you don't need a webserver to have an email server.
Well, unless you want webmail.
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Thanks for your suggestion. I actually does not thought about it this way, since it's necessary for me to be able to use interchangeably the same address whether I'm using my primary or secondary computer, or just accessing the email using a mobile phone. The other reason is simply that people does expect thing to be working this way.
On Tue, 6 Aug 2013 07:28:00 +0200 (CEST)
name at domain wrote:
> Got rid of gmail and using my own domain hosted on Dreamhost for
> now. I like the idea of setting up my own mail server but right now
> I'm in a situation where I don't have a static IP.
>
> Any suggestions on the email front?
Most advised either lavabit.com or riseup.net. Both say that they
respect the privacy of their users. Although you can also request for
free email services from resist.ca, autistici.org, and Aktivix.org.
If you think there is something to learn from Stallman, which is a false notion, but from an interview on a propaganda show, you have been very badly informed.
I would suggest to take awhile, and I mean a lot more than a few days or even a few weeks, but take awhile and try to learn what exactly is progressivism, objectivism, libertarianism, critical thinking, what an ideologue is, and a more articulate understanding of what fascism and socialism really is, you will start to see that fallacies of the likes of Stallman and FSF. He as an overgrown adolescent struggling with internal contradictions
I have come to reject the GPL for libertarian reasons, I don't care about free software and care only for open source source on my own home systems, thereby am not willing to use Linux but rather use BSD as I think it is more consistent with objectivist principals and their focus on code correctness.
However for privacy reasons, I still have an appreciation for the likes of Trisquel, Parabola, Replicant, and Ututo XS.
I am a member!
Whoah, we got a pseudo intellectual badass over here.
Everyone brace your jimmies, they're about to be rustled beyond the edgiest of edgy horizons.
> Whoah, we got a pseudo intellectual badass over here.
+1
I know this type of persons.
Talking a lot, but mostly never did any scientific /intellectual contribution.
Just using nice and intelligent sounding terms.
Besides the list of "*isms", the only "argument" in the post is: "[rms] as an overgrown adolescent struggling with internal contradictions".
That does not sound "intelligent" at all (especially when nothing seems to support such a claim)...
People are making such statements because they doesn't really understand the meaning of free software, which is *really* hard to fully understand (even I still have things to learn). It's as hard as to understand Christianity and God's words. This may seem too exaggerated, but from my journey about seeking my, and others freedom to have the "right to own" the bought software/hardware, whether it's a mobile computer, or just a dishwasher (with some basic built-in software for control), I can tell that Stallman is a "misunderstood genius", whose words seem to be for an ordinary person extreme, radical, exorbitant, and/or uncompromising. But that's not because Stallman is such a haughty person. It's because people doesn't understand him, and what he's trying to say. Only those who know his past, and understand for what he's fighting for, can really value him.
Why should I accept your propganda here any more than Stallmans? I've read about anarchism and socialism a lot and am a deep thinker and Stallman appeals to what I have already thought about a great deal. Stallman's message will appear as just propaganda to those who only can see the surface. It is not about software for him, that is just the medium to acheive a greater vision of society. It is the vision that appeals to me.
you remind me of most of the people in the windows world. Don't takt
this guy seriously, I know so much more than he does. Stallman has some
really good points. I don't agree with them all, but I certainly don't
claim to know more than he does I didn't develop most of the operating
known system as gnu/linux. Use what works for you, but don't go acting
like your own adolescent with internal conflicts. Some people these
days. On 08/06/2013 03:57 AM, name at domain wrote:
> If you think there is something to learn from Stallman, which is a
> false notion, but from an interview on a propaganda show, you have
> been very badly informed.
>
> I would suggest to take awhile, and I mean a lot more than a few days
> or even a few weeks, but take awhile and try to learn what exactly is
> progressivism, objectivism, libertarianism, critical thinking, what an
> ideologue is, and a more articulate understanding of what fascism and
> socialism really is, you will start to see that fallacies of the likes
> of Stallman and FSF. He as an overgrown adolescent struggling with
> internal contradictions
>
> I have come to reject the GPL for libertarian reasons, I don't care
> about free software and care only for open source source on my own
> home systems, thereby am not willing to use Linux but rather use BSD
> as I think it is more consistent with objectivist principals and their
> focus on code correctness.
>
> However for privacy reasons, I still have an appreciation for the
> likes of Trisquel, Parabola, Replicant, and Ututo XS.
You made a very good decision; at the beginning, the loss of facebook may feel very hard, but it will vanish.
I quitted facebook years ago for privacy reasons, but mainly for social-philosophical ones.
If you quit facebook, you feel how lonely you are in reallity, and this uncomfortable feeling will force you to take action and cultivate real friendships;
you won't meet 340 friends of which most don't actually know you;
you will meet a few friends in reallity, and it will be worth a thousand times more.
Instead of permanently focusing on creating a false picture of you and comparing it to other false and exaggerated pictures you can face reality and live your life there.
It's an unbelievable feeling.
Like putting off some boxing gloves.
And honestly: if the "friendship" with someone breaks only because you leave facebook, it's actually a very good thing you kicked away this unworthy relationship.
Real friendships persist without facebook.
I don't feel lonely at all and only feel a burden has been lifted. TBH, I find spedning time reading much more fulfilling. Or writing code. FB, for me, just wasted a lot of time and I didn't realize how bad it made me feel until I stopped using it. The worst part is the online persona you try to create. You are right on.
You said this to me a few weeks ago:
"I think if one participates in facebook, though not frequently uses it, he keeps this unjust system alive and growing."
It got me thinking about whether I really want to go along with things just because others are. I won't always have the luxury of rejecting proprietary software, without it immediately affecting my livelihood etc. So I decided that I will reject it when I feel that I can.
Thanks for that post, and for this one, qg.
I'm really glad to hear this!
Didn't expect you to consider my answer so carefully.
In any case, you won't regret making this step.
I never had a Facebook account. First I did not know about Facebook, but today I refuse to use Facebook. Instead I tell others to join me on Diaspora.
There are two email services that I can recommond: fripost.org (which is run by fellows of the Free Software Foundation Europe) and posteo.de
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On 2013-08-05 21:07, name at domain wrote:
>
> "I left facebook a year or two ago because I got uncomfortable with
> it tracking people. I've been back for a few months now; I decided
> to compromise to keep in touch with friends. But I regret
> supporting facebook.
[..]
Cheers to that. When I did it I also enabled "subscribe" on my account
and encouraged former contact to go to Diaspora or just email.
Speaking of email, I encourage you to find another provider than
Google now that you're done with Facebook.
F.
- --
Fabián Rodríguez
http://fsf.magicfab.ca
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Thanks Fabian. I'm transitioning to Autistici now. I'd like to learn how to set up my own email server eventually; hopefully it's not hard. I hope to buy a small single-board computer for that eventually.
I left Facebook a long time ago not only because of the privacy reasons, but also because Facebook was inconvenient for me. When I found that Diaspora was convenient to me and not a privacy nightmare like Facebook is, I logged back into my old Facebook account (being sure to allow cookies only for that session) to tell some people I had been connected with there about Diaspora.
I didn't get a response. I don't know if it's because my posts somehow weren't seen (I noticed that the first post I made to my own "wall" was set to "private"; I don't know how it works for stuffy you post on other people's "walls") or they just weren't interested.
One thing that was interesting, though: every time I logged into Facebook recently for this purpose, Facebook said that it didn't recognize the device that I was using and made me go through an authentication check. I suspect it's just that the site relies on cookies for that, but interesting nonetheless.
Hello muhammed,
I posted the same kind of status on my FB wall a year ago then deleted my FB account. I wrote something like "here's my contact info; I think I have yours but please send it again just in case". Got something like 5 answers :(. So either people missed my status... or they knew I had their email... or maybe they actually hated me lol :).
I was quite active on identi.ca for a while, but have been using Diaspora more and more in the past weeks. Not a single one of my FB contacts is present on those other social networks though. I now use email to communicate with my family and close friends (we don't live in the same city). I don't get any news anymore from some acquaintances that post updates on FB but don't write elsewhere, so that's a bit sad... but on the other hand, I've met some new people on identi.ca and Diaspora who share some of my interests, so that's nice!
Haha, I think I will be in a similar position, but that's alright. Big changes don't usually happen overnight -- it took me a few years to transition from proprietary to open source to free. I'm not even truly free right now. I have a Think Penguin computer, which as close to free as Chris can get by design, and it still has a proprietary bios. And whatever other low-level proprietary firmware the x86 (?) design demands.
Ten to fifteen of my facebook friends "liked" my post; that's about 10% of my 100 to 150 facebook friends. That way more than I expected. I think it might be because I got lucky and got into a good school. I don't mean an elite school or anything like that; just that the friends from there are pretty open minded.
I am a member!
It's always encouraging to follow threads like this one. Facebook is a real nightmare, yet most people don't understand the real cost of using it (data-mining, profiling by intelligence services, etc.).
I imagine in one way or another this is how society has always behaved. There are immediate personal benefits to not using FB. The "social" hope with not using Facebook is to achieve a critical mass, after which I am sure the service will fall apart. So far, only one of my former FB contacts (that I know) has quit.
The best explanation I have found to raise awareness against data-mining intelligence services (like facebook, google, yahoo, etc.) is a talk by Eben Moglen on Republica in 2012 entitled "Why freedom of thought requires free media and why media require free technology." You can watch it through the following link if you don't agree with youtube tracking you either:
https://archive.org/details/EbenMoglen-WhyFreedomOfThoughtRequiresFreeMediaAndWhyFreeMedia
Frankly, there is not much that I miss from Facebook. Indeed I think I get along better with the few people that I consider my friends from my former FB list of contacts since I stopped using the "service."
Regarding e-mail, I chose Lavabit paid accounts ($8 or $16 dollars per year). It still requires you to trust what they claim, but according to their website, and if you turn on server encryption then all of your e-mail is encrypted on their server. I also use GPG with the few people I have been able to convince to use it.
At some point a while ago I installed friendi.ca on a server I own but found that my technical skills were insufficient to make it work properly and to be sure that the setup was secure. I have been looking for options to use diaspora or friendi.ca or one of the federated social networks but have not found an option that satisfies me in terms of privacy. Any pointers in the right direction would be highly appreciated.
The subject of on-line privacy is a difficult and thorny one, and even some of the people who claim (and whom I believe) to be working in favor of privacy oftentimes are contradictory. For example, freedomboxfoundation.org uses embedded youtube on their main page, which incidentally I cannot watch without flash; they use google analytics on the website (????); further, they don't list any public keys in their contact section either. I did write them to mention this, but I never received a reply.
For most of the data-mining, time-wasting, websites of which Facebook is a prime example, I find that I am much more productive and happy since I quit them. I do long for more on-line social life and I'm actively trying to solve that (this here being one example).
The only spy service I have been unable to completely get rid of in my online life is Youtube. Does anyone have recommendations in that area?
In any case freedom is not free, and especially not free from hassle. Some sacrifices must be made in every area of life where you would like to be free. With time, most of these sacrifices become blessings, I have found.
Regards,
fbit
> The only spy service I have been unable to completely get rid of in my online
> life is Youtube. Does anyone have recommendations in that area?
MediaGoblin. It's still in alpha, but it works really well.
There's at least one instance of MediaGoblin someone else has set up which is public: gobblin.se.
Just wanted to say thanks for pointing out that Moglen talk, it was excellent.
If somebody hasn't seen it, drop what you're doing and go watch it now.
I am a member!
Thank you for the comment onpon4!
MediaGoblin is interesting, and hopefully the server install will become easier once they get to v.1.0. I would like to use it as a private way to share photos with family and friends. However, it doesn't seem to me to be a replacement for youtube, or at least for what I do with youtube, namely:
A video repository that allows me to search for video content that interests me (for example, conferences) and stream them on my browser. I would be willing to pay for such a service if I could be assured my searching and watching habits are not being mined.
Gnu has a video repository but it is very very limited.
Cheers.
Well, YouTube can't really track you very well if you aren't logged in, and if you refuse cookies from them and block their scripts.
I wish it was so but unfortunately reality is much more complex. E.g.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evercookie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_fingerprint
I am a member!
By the way, how do you connect to Diaspora? Do you run your own node? Thanks!
I am a member!
Thank you both for the information. I have decided to try the joindiaspora.com since it's the first one I saw. Looks good. Not very social for me yet, though :)~
>Well, YouTube can't really track you very well if you aren't logged in, and if >you refuse cookies from them and block their scripts.
I hope you're right, but I do wonder. I'm never logged in but I do accept the cookie per session (I will try blocking it, I always assumed it was needed for functionality). Regarding blocking scripts, I tried using LibreJS and was liking it a lot, then I couldn't see maps on openstreetmap.org, even when allowing all scripts to run. I had to uninstall the add-on to make the maps work again. I will try using noscript.
To surf the web without being spied:
Use Tor Browser Bundle. Disable JavaScript, Java, Flash, etc (https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/javascript-trap.html)
In order to view "hidden" content because of JS disabled: View > Page Style > No Style
Don't accept cookies, except for logging in to this forum and maybe some other website. Remove the cookies as soon as you're done with the session.
Use UnPlug to download videos from YouTube and some other sites - http://unplug.dbatley.com/
Hopefully someday there will be a program capable of fully dealing with the JavaScript issue (something like NoScript + LibreJS). In the meantime only disabling JS can give you peace of mind.
PS: This is an amateurish view . I still need a lot to learn to become a power user.
Cookies are rarely necessary for anything other than logging in. If a website requires you to enable cookies, you should question whether that's a good site to use.
You can mass-block all cookies in Abrowser and have a list of exceptions. That's in the Privacy tab of the Preferences window.
I am a member!
Thanks for the replies. I'll give Diaspora a try. Although I think I have been negatively conditioned to the whole social network idea...it may take some practice.
Thanks also for the comments re. avoiding tracking. I've disabled cookies and javascript now.
I can't figure out how to disable cookies in icecat.
Preferences > Privacy
doesn't give me this option.
Thanks!
I had to switch to "costume history settings".
Isn't Icecat about 5 versions behind Abrowser? It seems risky to use Icecat.
Maybe you're right.
Since it's a program of the Gnu Project, I didn't think carefully but trusted them blindly.
Are you sure using Icecat can bring up security issues?
As far as I know, Gnewsense uses this browser as its standard webbrowser.
On 10/08/13 04:13, shiretoko wrote:
> Maybe you're right.
> Since it's a program of the Gnu Project, I didn't think carefully but
> trusted them blindly.
> Are you sure using Icecat can bring up security issues?
> As far as I know, Gnewsense uses this browser as its standard
> webbrowser.
AFAIK the maintainer of IceCat won't release the next version until a
number of extensions are completed for it. Since most security
vulnerabilities are related to JavaScript, hopefully it's not as much of
an issue (since IceCat uses LibreJS).
gNewSense 3.0 uses Iceweasel 3.5 by default, which has security patches
by the Debian Mozilla team. Many gNewSense users use IceCat as well though.
Andrew.
Firefox 17 has long-term support. I don't know if IceCat has been pulling the security updates to it, though.
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