Trisquel Membership
- Vous devez vous identifier ou créer un compte pour écrire des commentaires
Earlier today in #trisquel we were talking about the donations and how it is greatly helping the project. I was planning to donate some $$ when Trisquel 4.5 was released but someone mentioned possibly having a reoccurring donation. I would much prefer this. I signed up as a FSF member and it's easy how they take $10 every month (think of it just like a bill.) I know Ruben said he was working on this but what would it take to setup some sort of membership system where we could setup a similar system. I would love to contribute $10 a month and I'm sure other users would feel the same. Hell eventually if things took off we could even maybe get enough money to hire full time developers and take some of the load off Ruben.
So basically I'm just wondering what it would take to set this up and how many people would be interested in something like that.
I am a translator!
Sounds like a good idea.
I like this idea, too. I also think it would be nice if we could see what the donations were being spent on. If people could see the impact that donations are having on the project, they might donate more.
Yeah. I don't know about Spain but the tor project had this problem at the beginning. When they were trying to get funding they were just a group of guys and no one will really fund a "group of guys" so they had to become a non-profit organization. I'm not sure if that is the right move for Trisquel but it's a good point.
Maybe if we had some info on how much Trisquel needs to be self-sustaining and how many members we might need (at something like $10 a month) that might help.
Something like Bandwidth costs $100 per month, Servers are $1000 a year. Ruben's time and effort? Priceless.
> Yeah. I don't know about Spain but the tor project had this problem
> at the beginning. When they were trying to get funding they were
> just a group of guys and no one will really fund a "group of guys" so
> they had to become a non-profit organization. I'm not sure if that
> is the right move for Trisquel but it's a good point.
Trisquel is already a non-profit organization, filed as "Trisquel
association for the Free Software development and promotion" at the
Spanish culture ministry association registry.
> Maybe if we had some info on how much Trisquel needs to be
> self-sustaining and how many members we might need (at something like
> $10 a month) that might help.
It is true that there is little information in the donation page about
how the money is used, that is because when I started it I thought it
would barely be enough to pay for the servers, but you guys proved me
wrong in the sweetest possible way. :)
Now that the servers are covered -the web one is actually provided by
Sognus-, the next goal would be to have a full time paid staff,
starting with myself. I have been working on Trisquel for almost seven
years now, most of them half time, and full time for roughly the last
one. I'm currently living from some small savings and sporadic jobs
through Sognus, but the goal for myself would be to become an employee
of the Trisquel association, and work in nothing else.
I know it will take some time, so I never really thought of actual
numbers. Other than the devel server and probably some of my expenses
-electric bill, internet connection-, the money will be saved for a
while to have a kind of "buffer", since donations are not predictable.
Once the average monthly donations are enough to pay the for minimum
wage -plus taxes-, I would start to have a salary.
I will ask how much would that be, to set an starting goal.
I am a translator!
Puedes contar con mis 10 € al mes y al fin de año un poco más.
You can count with 10 € monthly from me, and a little more to the end of the year.
El mié, 09-03-2011 a las 05:03 +0100, Rubén Rodríguez escribió:
>
> I know it will take some time, so I never really thought of actual
> numbers. Other than the devel server and probably some of my expenses
> -electric bill, internet connection-, the money will be saved for a
> while to have a kind of "buffer", since donations are not predictable.
> Once the average monthly donations are enough to pay the for minimum
> wage -plus taxes-, I would start to have a salary.
>
> I will ask how much would that be, to set an starting goal.
I think having members is a great idea.
So 'Trisquel association for the Free Software development and
promotion' could accept donations and also membership (a monthly
donation established for 1 year, or so).
Since, many of us have agreed is a great idea, maybe we could start
moving to setting up the ... system? of membership.
Anyway, let's keep supporting this great project (money related or
not) ;)
--
Luis A. Guzmán García
http://ark.switnet.org
¡Se Libre! -- http://fsfla.org/selibre
The Hardware Database Project-- http://www.h-node.com
Distribuciones libres de GNU/Linux -- http://ur1.ca/3e8gu
GPG Key: EB153FAF
I talked to Ruben. He said he is finishing up 4.5 sometime this week before Libreplanet. After that, probably sometime next week he will get it established. I don't want to speak for him but I think he wants to finish 4.5 first.
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 06:14:05 +0100 (CET), name at domain wrote:
> I talked to Ruben. He said he is finishing up 4.5 sometime this week
> before
> Libreplanet. After that, probably sometime next week he will get it
> established. I don't want to speak for him but I think he wants to
finish
>
> 4.5 first.
That's great, that means that Trisquel 4.5 will be available for the
FLISOL too :)
--
Luis A. Guzmán García
http://ark.switnet.org
¡Se Libre! -- http://fsfla.org/selibre/
The Hardware Database Project -- http://www.h-node.com
Distribuciones libres de GNU/Linux -- http://ur1.ca/3e8gu
Awesome!
"I have been working on Trisquel for almost seven years now, most of them half time, and full time for roughly the last one. I'm currently living from some small savings and sporadic jobs through Sognus, but the goal for myself would be to become an employee of the Trisquel association, and work in nothing else."
That would be totally ideal. If you are investing full time work into it honestly you should get full time pay. As you obviously know there is nothing wrong w/ making money off free software. I mean people pay ~$100 for a license to use Windows. I would gladly pay $120 a year to support 2 releases (average) of Trisquel. That seems like a great deal.
Maybe it can even get some sort of rewards for being a member. Something like for each month you get 1 point and then maybe in the Trisquel Store you can get 1% off your order up to 10% or something. I don't know I'm just brainstorming.
I am a translator!
I just donated $35.
A full-time paid staff would do wonders for the quality of the releases. Trisquel could become the Cadillac of fully-free distros. :P
Of course, some things like writing documentation are best done on an entirely unpaid, volunteer basis, as I am perfectly happy to do.
I am a translator!
Trisquel IS the Cadillac of fully free distros :-P But that's mostly because fully free distros are that bad in terms of being actually alive.
I agree however, that Trisquel should become much, much better. I'd consider a membership in a month or two, just really having trouble with finding a good job atm.
Of course if we had funding (even grassroots) that would help a lot at keeping Trisquel alive. When I read that Ruben is basically funding things off his savings account that kind of upsets me. That isn't sustainable. If you check out Wikipedia the minimum wage in spain is 633.30 euros ($880.54) per month. Because if Ruben hits a serious financial hardship he may not be able to work like he is now. Trisquel then may become another dead distro and I never want that to happen.
We could have different levels of membership. Like a $5, $10, and $20 (and maybe a pick your own level). Because the economy is hurting now I know the amount people can afford really varies. However, to just pay Ruben minimum wage we would need at minimum 88 $10 subscribers per month. That wouldn't cover any other expenses mentioned (bandwidth, hardware, electricity).
This may not be the easiest goal but it is totally obtainable. The FSF has at over 9000 members I'm sure (I'm member 8999). If you check out the Trisquel community page there are at least 2000 accounts on there (25 per page x 80+ pages) and the Identi.ca page has over 1000 followers. Those are just the people who bother to make accounts! If you check the front page back in Dec. there were 17k direct downloads of 4.0 which doesn't even include bittorrent or anything. If just a fraction of the people who use Trisquel become donating members we could make that a goal easily.
The reason I want to push for this is because if Ruben is doing all this hard work for freedom. Running the best free distro (IMO) and isn't even making minimum wage that makes me really sad. That means he would probably make more money waiting tables. I think that should be our first goal. 100 members at $10 monthly donation would cover that. I can't help much with the technical details of setting up a membership system but I can say that if one were introduced I'd sign up in a heartbeat. So... only 99 to go.
I decided to make the move of improving my life. This meant I would have to work on a few things, and on of the biggest is security. Without security, you have nothing, not even your health (which is almost everything). It is essential. As with many things in life, there are more ways to be paid that just money, and there is more to security than a lock on your door. Society, i.e. your direct environment, and yet also even the whole world determines your security. We are all in this together, whether we acknowledge it or not.
Only libre software is truly secure. As another thread-maker here stated, the only "practical" distros that I know of from GNU.org is gNewSense and Trisquel. Only if people are presented the opportunity, will they act on something. And for that, Ruben I can't tell you how thankful I am that you have worked so hard on Trisquel. I have to give credit where it is due, so I also thank the people that work on all aspects of what makes Ubuntu, good stuff, as Trisquel is based on it. Without it, Trisquel wouldn't be possible.
However, in short, Trisquel embodies what Ubuntu should be. I have used enough software to know how hard you work on the "polish" and appreciate it. It is the often "small details" in life that can sometimes actually make the most difference. It is the "Premier" OS right now, and I foresee it will continue to gain momentum and grow in its awesomeness.
Without my life story, I don't have money to donate at the moment. But I want to help make change myself and make it my full time job. Perhaps I can help with Trisquel, at least for now. As mentioned above, time is priceless, and I do have at least some of that to give.
So, to avoid highjacking the thread further if I have... I will start by giveing my insight now on the main discussion. :)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Reoccurring is a good idea, always nice to have options for benefactors. It works for many Non-Profits. Looking at it that way is probably best as well, I think.
As far as making money, I think most libre software makers look at it wrong. Most try to make money off of the "service", like Ubuntu does for commercial customers. I like how RMS envisioned it, where people write "requested" software, and the programmers get paid for their work. After that, the requesters will hopefully make the software available to all, for their own security.
Now, how do you do this? I have some ideas, but that is another discussion. For now, I think we should look at it for Trisquel like this. When you go to download it, you are given the option to make a donation at the time of download, like the Humble Indie Bundle. (which went to the non-profits FSF and Childsplay) There may be more exposure by pointing people to a shopping cart, however it may turn some people away. So perhaps two options would be nice. Two "medium" buttons in the middle of the page, one that says add to cart, with an <.img> that says something like price "?.00" beside it and another that just says download now (next/later page points to direct download and torrent links for both options). If you select the "add to cart" option, a choice to make it reoccurring, maybe monthly or annually could be there on a later page.
Of course, I feel it should and legally will (due to non-profit?) have to remain completely free. But the Humble Indie Bundle and even the band Radio Head gained a lot of exposure and funds with the pay what you want/can idea. Makes people feel warm and fuzzy inside, even if only, 'Wow, I can get this for free!" lol.
In conclusion, I see nothing wrong with "charging" for free software. Again, I think it should be a non-profit donation situation, but only through bold moves are people ever going to allowed free themselves from the slavery that is proprietary software. Paradigm shifts must take place. And Trisquel is so valuable to me because not only does it do so by "just working", but represents an opportunity to be truly free, and truly progress society by offering the opportunity in other aspects of society. Present opportunities to donate, make it simple, easy, and always consider your audience, your users. Keep it exciting, as life should be.
Thank you Ruben, and everyone here. You will change my life through your work, simply by presenting not only myself, but everyone with the opportunity for security. I hope to be able to help spread open philosophy and education in big ways for the world, expanding them on the foundation built here.
> like the Humble Indie Bundle. (which went to the non-profits FSF
> and Childsplay)
Just a note: It was EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) instead of FSF.
> Of course, I feel it should and legally will (due to non-profit?) have to
> remain completely free. But the Humble Indie Bundle and even the band
It is the end of the email for me. I think that you had a problem
copy-pasting your email (or I have a cut piece of the comlete one for
some reason). Please, let me follow reading this emotive mail!
I am posting to the site forums. There may be a limit to the transfer to the mailing list... Here is the rest, hopefully, ending with the words "foundation built here".
Of course, I feel it should and legally will (due to non-profit?) have to remain completely free. But the Humble Indie Bundle and even the band Radio Head gained a lot of exposure and funds with the pay what you want/can idea. Makes people feel warm and fuzzy inside, even if only, 'Wow, I can get this for free!" lol.
In conclusion, I see nothing wrong with "charging" for free software. Again, I think it should be a non-profit donation situation, but only through bold moves are people ever going to allowed free themselves from the slavery that is proprietary software. Paradigm shifts must take place. And Trisquel is so valuable to me because not only does it do so by "just working", but represents an opportunity to be truly free, and truly progress society by offering the opportunity in other aspects of society. Present opportunities to donate, make it simple, easy, and always consider your audience, your users. Keep it exciting, as life should be.
Thank you Ruben, and everyone here. You will change my life through your work, simply by presenting not only myself, but everyone with the opportunity for security. I hope to be able to help spread open philosophy and education in big ways for the world, expanding them on the foundation built here.
Oh and yes, thanks for correcting me. It was the EFF. Their work is also invaluable. Again, in "it" together. (Made another post for the benefit of emails, as it may not resend.)
I have another idea. The Slashdot.org crowd seems to really love open source, and often libre software. You usually are better getting an article accepted if you can summarize, i.e. post the interesting parts of the press release. I have to say, the main page of Trisquel.info helped catch my eye, so kudos to quidam and whoever is behind whole page layout. I think it is a little late to post the last announcement, but perhaps lamenting on the libre part will peak interest with Slaine's release. I have had an article or to accepted, and would be glad to do it.
Also mentioned was that Sugar will be on an education version. Sugar has been talked about before often as well...
Hi jason;
I think we talked tonight
Tom Gilliard
satellit
on IRC #sugar and #trisquel
Bend Oregon
volunteer with sugarlabs.org
(retired) : )
I think quidam is in spain?
name at domain wrote:
> I have another idea. The Slashdot.org crowd seems to really love open
> source, and often libre software. You usually are better getting an
> article accepted if you can summarize, i.e. post the interesting parts
> of the press release. I have to say, the main page of Trisquel.info
> helped catch my eye, so kudos to quidam and whoever is behind whole
> page layout. I think it is a little late to post the last
> announcement, but perhaps lamenting on the libre part will peak
> interest with Slaine's release. I have had an article or to accepted,
> and would be glad to do it.
>
> Also mentioned was that Sugar will be on an education version. Sugar
> has been talked about before often as well...
>
> I think it is a little late to post the
> last announcement, but perhaps lamenting on the libre part will peak
> interest with Slaine's release. I have had an article or to accepted,
> and would be glad to do it.
That would be great -although somewhat unrelated to membership-, we
sure need to get more attention from the media.
It sort of does. I never would have found this distro if it wasn't for the FSF. As I mentioned before helping free distros is one of their high priority projects. Once we get this setup we should probably do a media push. As I mentioned to you on IRC maybe we could get the FSF to make a news/blog post that we are trying to get 100 members to start off with and they could send us some traffic. Basically media attention == users == members.
This could be done in conjunction with the 4.5 release.
I am a translator!
That's a great idea, I found Trisquel only due to FSF as well. Watching videos of rms telling the story of GNU (he IS a fascinatingly strange guy) and learning more about the true origin of GNU/Linux through all other kinds of sources made me understand the importance of free software and it's true meaning.
So I was rather depressed, when I found out that FSF has so many complaints with basically all the distros and there are only a select few, "accidently" some of the most obscure ones, which really allow to live the dream of 100% free software.
The fact that Trisquel is based on Ubuntu (the biggest and friendliest community for GNU/Linux around) and the really cool logo (I dig everything that resembles celtic and/or germanic-scandinavic culture) makes it my preffered choice among all other free distros.
That was my thought as well. You can't have members unless they are aware there is a "club" to join. I think we should get creative and really consider possibilities with media. We are not alone, but who bothers to read the FSF/GNU websites regurlaly? Sure mostly people like us, but I still think there are plenty who like the idea and would try it who just don't think they have the time to do the "required" reading.
Get it in front of people where they do hang out, and hey! Another site that often talks about Linux is Lifehacker.com and they do have a good bit of readers. Also had a submission there as well...
I also asked the guy who does ThisWeekInLinux.com vlog to do a review. He is of the mind that "Freedom isn't free" and has said he won't review a "free" distro. But you know what? I know there are people in his audience and even IRC chatroom that do understand free software. So I asked him if he would do a review for pay. I had no intention of that, (tricky I know, but he assumed.. I just asked a question.) but it got him asking why anyone would even want to... which gave me the opportunity to remind him about his audience. He said it probably wouldn't be a favorable review, since of course thre are "limitations". I think he will still be surprised, but while I don't seek "bad" publicity, even if all he says is, "Tried it, don't like it, can't use prop. software", it may get more people who don't care about that aware period. And exposure is a good thing.
I am a translator!
Did I understand it right, someone doesn't want to review a distro that comes free of charge? How is that plausible? Every single distro can be obtained free of charge, also every single one can be bought on a CD, although some seem to be slightly more expensive than others.
Anyways I've been bragging to a friend about free software and GNU/Linux for a long time now and he said he is going to try it now. A bit late, now that he bought a MacBook, he should have tried it out beforehand, but oh well. The guy is a semi-professional audio engineer so I've given him Musix, which has an optimized kernel for realtime midi input.
> I also asked the guy who does ThisWeekInLinux.com vlog to do a
> review. He is of the mind that "Freedom isn't free" and has said he
> won't review a "free" distro. But you know what? I know there are
> people in his audience and even IRC chatroom that do understand free
> software. So I asked him if he would do a review for pay.
Don't waste your time, there are plenty of non-stupid bloggers out
there. I'd like to know what "Freedom isn't free" means, though.
Just an example of backwards thinking that is prevalent in society. Since I am already giving my 2 cents, I have to say that the reasons have to do with evils. They are referring to I guess the "opportunity cost" of not being able to use x feature since there is not a libre alternative. (including hardware due to drivers, etc.) I think they fail to realize that if a small percentage more of the effort that was spent on proprietary software on libre, then it would be a completely moot argument. I feel it really is baseless anyway, and they are in effect "part of the problem".
History has already proven this point with 3/4's of the worlds servers running on "open source" software. While not all libre, it could be. The efficiency levels would go through the roof as the percentage grows, for society in general and computing costs. Just look at package mangers and the benefits. But you all already know this.
As far as wasting time, I don't mind educating, as that is the root crux of the problem. Ignorance is surely one of the greatest evils. When someone has a blog devoted to Linux, and yet doesn't get libre software, then they are obviously basing their "opinions" on incorrect facts and misinformation, mostly in the form of FUD. And one of the best ways to stop FUD, is to inform the ones who are spreading it to the masses, not realizing it's malicious nature.
In related news, I "convinced" the vlogger in question to likely review version 5.0, by outlining how it could be to his great benefit. People ARE interested in libre software, and his reviews would serve to help Trisquel, by covering something that the rest of the media isn't (other than possibly linking to him), in ways that he provides. He gets the added traffic, and possibly one day sponsors... Again, we are all in this together whether we realize it or not. Sometimes someone has to leave bread crumbs for us to follow, and then as we become more familiar we will get it, as with learning anything. (even the truth)
- Vous devez vous identifier ou créer un compte pour écrire des commentaires