usb wifi card ar9271 does not work after update on debian 9 main.

12 réponses [Dernière contribution]
tonlee
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 09/08/2014

hdd1

mate gui.
debian 8 was installed and got upgraded to debian 9 main. Usb ar9271 kept working. Having
open-ath9k-htc-firmware_1.3-1_all.deb installed. Then after a common update, the
usb ar9271 stopped working. The networkmanager applet icon is still displayed on the
bar, but no available wifi networks are displayed. The enable wifi item in the menu is
not there.
I then removed open-ath9k-htc-firmware_1.3-1_all.deb and installed
firmware-ath9k-htc_1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3_all.deb. The
/etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file got added
[device]
wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no
Still usb ar9271 does not work.
Wifi networks not available.
After updating the /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file keeps on
having the
[device]
wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no
version.

hdd2

It is a debian 9 main system.
Having firmware-ath9k-htc_1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3_all.deb installed and
/etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file edited accordingly.
Usb ar9271 worked. The hdd 1 had not been used long time. I put
the hdd 2 in the same non libreboot t400 computer and turned it on.
Usb ar9271 worked. Then I ran an update. After restarting usb ar9271 did not work. Suggesting
there has been an update, which makes the usb ar9271 not work. The networkmanager
applet icon is displayed. But no available wifi networks.

hdd 3

It is a debian 10 main system. Having firmware-ath9k-htc_1.4.0-97-g75b3e59+dfsg-3_all.deb installed and
/etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf file edited accordingly.
If the hdd 3 is put in the same t400 computer, then usb ar9271 works. Suggesting
it is about something debian 9 main specific.

If hdd 1 or hdd 2 is put into another computer which has a free software pci wifi card,
then wifi works. Wifi networks are available and you can connect to them. Therefore
networkmanager applet does work. But not about usb ar9271.

Have you noticed the error? How to get usb ar9271 working on debian
9 main? Can I take a file from debian 10 main and add it to debian 9 main? Thank you.

nadebula.1984
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 05/01/2018

Here's my suggestion. Whenever it is possible to use PCI/e WLAN card (ath5k/ath9k), use it. Only use ath9k-htc (USB) as a workaround if it is impossible to use ath5k/ath9k, for example, BIOS/UEFI with white-list restrictions locked down with Boot Guard.

ath9k-htc does have free/libre firmware, but it still requires firmware, which is far inferior to ath5k/ath9k. The firmware can be buggy.

For your problem, update the Debian 9 systems to Debian 10, or better yet, Debian testing/unstable. It seems that latest system and firmware work best.

chaosmonk

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I am a translator!

Hors ligne
A rejoint: 07/07/2017

> ath9k-htc does have free/libre firmware, but it still requires firmware, which is far inferior to ath5k/ath9k

The ath5k/ath9k still have firmware on the device, right? It just isn't loaded by the OS?

nadebula.1984
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 05/01/2018

I heard (from my community friends) that ath5k/ath9k doesn't have dedicated storage, memory or processor to hold and run the firmware.

chaosmonk

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I am a translator!

Hors ligne
A rejoint: 07/07/2017

Interesting. I didn't know there were WiFi cards like that. Do you happen to know whether this is also the case with Realtek cards that work with Linux-libre, or do they have firmware installed on the device?

I had always wondered why I had such a better experience with Atheros PCI WiFi cards than with Atheros USB WiFi cards. I thought the connector type was the difference, because I did not realize that there was a difference between ath9k and ath9k-htc and incorrectly assumed that the PCI and USB cards used the same firmware.

nadebula.1984
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 05/01/2018

First of all, we need to make clear what is firmware. In addition to drivers, peripherals including WLAN cards (wireless NIC) may or may not require firmware to be loaded to work, depending on there own designing.

Basically, firmware is executable codes run on peripheral's own dedicated memory and processor. For ath5k/ath9k, there is no such dedicated memory or processor, so it is impossible to load firmware to it, even if you wish to do so. There may be certain "calibration data" stored on them to enable or disable certain frequencies (in order to meet certain country's law or regulation), but they are not executable codes and therefore not counted as firmware, no matter whether they are mutable or not.

For ath9k-htc and almost all non-Atheros cards, they all require firmware to be loaded to their dedicated memory and processor to run. I once heard that certain Realtek cards "happen to" work with Linux-libre, but they still have such dedicated memory and processor to run firmware. It is probably because their designing is "imperfect" that firmware loading can be somehow circumvented.

Please note that peripheral firmware can be not only buggy but also dangerous, especially proprietary firmware. So the best situation is that of ath5k/ath9k, which has no dedicated memory or processor at all. This is why I don't recommend ath9k-htc if it is possible to use ath5k/ath9k.

chaosmonk

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I am a translator!

Hors ligne
A rejoint: 07/07/2017

> Basically, firmware is executable codes run on peripheral's own dedicated memory and processor.

Right, and my understanding is that for some peripherals the firmware needs to be loaded by the OS (so it will not work with Linux-libre, which cannot load non-free firmware) and sometimes it is already installed on the peripheral (so it is still non-free, but will work with Linux-libre because the peripheral does not need the kernel's help in order to run the firmware). Is that right?

> It is probably because their designing is "imperfect" that firmware loading can be somehow circumvented.

Sorry, can you clarify what you mean by that? Are you saying that those Realtek cards *can* run firmware, but don't really need it? Or or you saying that they do need firmware, but it does not need to be loaded by the OS?

> So the best situation is that of ath5k/ath9k, which has no dedicated memory or processor at all. This is why I don't recommend ath9k-htc if it is possible to use ath5k/ath9k.

So you are saying that even though the ath9k-htc firmware is free software, it is buggy, so for better performance we should prefer ath5k/ath9k?

lutes
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 09/04/2020

This page [1] points to firmware [2] which seems to be released under various licences, including ClearBSD, MIT and "GPLv2, with a caveat".

Is it the one you are talking about?

[1] https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/ath9k_htc
[2] https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware

nadebula.1984
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 05/01/2018

For those peripherals that require firmware to work, the peripheral is either stored on non-volatile storage of the peripheral or loaded by software (either operating system or application) run on host processor. In the first case, the firmware can be treated as circuit (and therefore less malicious), but they can still be mutable, i.e. can be modified by other mechanisms. In the second case, the host software (OS or application) loads firmware to the peripheral, and then loses control of the firmware, because the peripheral internal working is out of host's control. Therefore, peripherals that require non-free firmware are not only buggy but also dangerous, even if their firmware are circuit like.

I believe that manufacturers of those malicious peripherals do want to force users to load their non-free firmware. But such mechanism can be "buggy", too. Therefore it is possible to have very few peripherals that are designed to not work without firmware but actually work. Such "bug" can be "fixed", so it is also possible that older revisions work without firmware but newer revisions don't.

As for ath9k-htc, I'm sure that its functionality is very limited. For example, when I use ath9k-htc as hotspot, it accepts very few devices connected to it. And it seems that (at least until very recent) ath9k-htc doesn't support MAC randomization (an important security feature), so before I use it to connect to any hotspot I have to first create a hotspot (and then disable it).

Therefore, ath5k/ath9k not only offers better performance, it is also much better designed (firmware free) and much securer.

tonlee
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 09/08/2014

There is no free software pci wifi card for a
non librebooted t400 computer?

usb ar9271 wifi card works on debian 10 main.
Command nmcli g
returns
STATE CONNECTIVITY WIFI-HW WIFI WWAN-HW WWAN
connected full enabled enabled enabled enabled

Usb ar9271 does not work on debian 9 main.
Command nmcli g
returns
STATE CONNECTIVITY WIFI-HW WIFI WWAN-HW WWAN
disconnected none enabled enabled enabled enabled

Command sudo service network-manager status
returns
NetworkManager.service - Network Manager
Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/NetworkManager.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
Active: active
Docs: man:NetworkManager(8)
Main PID: 580 (NetworkManager)
Tasks: 3 (limit: 4915)
CGroup: /system.slice/NetworkManager.service
└─580 /usr/sbin/NetworkManager --no-daemon

Command $ sudo lsusb
returns
IMC Networks

The computer knows usb
ar9271 is connected and networkmanager applet is running,
but it does not make the connection between networkmanager
applet and the usb ar9271 device?

nadebula.1984
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 05/01/2018

There is a usable Atheros card on 4-series chipset based ThinkPads (X200, T/R400, T/W500 series but except X301).

Search for FRU number 43Y6511 on ebay, it's an Atheros AR2425 card. As mentioned above, this card is way better than any ath9k-htc for your T400 even if it's still running original BIOS.

tonlee
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 09/08/2014

> FRU number 43Y6511

It works.

nadebula.1984
Hors ligne
A rejoint: 05/01/2018

Glad to hear from you.

I recently purchased an old T400 with this Atheros card for approximately $40. It also comes with integrated graphics, WXGA+ screen and Panasonic battery.