What do you think about China and its score system?
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I think that China can be a society orwellian.
Too short but very clear question, I live next to them (and they also invade against my state) and they trust nothing inside their state, but also every of them are untrusted by their satanic leftardistic regime, as tourists they never respect the host state (due to no respects inside their own state).
In short I don’t have expectations on them which they won’t have free software culture due to their political status.
They also have weaknesses to be easily collapsed under USA due to my state next to them, under cultural, economical, right or left etc measures.
USA runs theories from my state in terms of the City State to slay against China and this has already been almost reached.
I think my state should build our own free software economy to differeniate against China (as told above they won’t have free cultures), even also British English and Hong Kong Chinese against just mandrin Chinese culturally.
My state still has farming grounds (though not working due to unreasonable populations due to them) but they just have cities, industrial parks, finally deserts.
Only leftards will endorse mandarin Chinese, but Japanese, Republicans, Malaysians will always endorse Hong Kong Chinese.
A democratic elected government can install a system such as
the chinese point system. If people do not like it next
election they can vote such that the point system gets
modified or closed down.
The chinese regime is not democratic. Who benefits from
the point system? No reason to assume the point system
has another goal than to control people and
strengthen the position of the rulers. People have
no say in setting the parameters of the point
system. If people
are unable to battle the point system for two
generations then you have a lot of people who
know nothing else than the point system and it
gets more difficult to form an opposition.
You should look at the chinese rulers as decribed
in orwell's animal farm.
You should look out for surveillance no matter
what country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip
Former uk prime minister said, there must be
no electronic communication the government
cannot intercept.
I am a translator!
>they can vote such that the point system gets
modified or closed down.
Still believing the vote meme.. x_X
There are democracies where people has the option to get another
government if they vote accordingly. About countries like china
there is no democratic voting system.
It is very difficult to believe in any kind of election system (at least for me). If you have voting papers it is harder to fraud (well at least you'd have to count the cells), but electronic vote must be simpler to fraud... You'd had to just press some keys on a board.
I am a translator!
The only voting system I might slightly believe in is the old Roman way: in the town square, you stand up when it is your turn and you yell it loud and clear, the name of the candidate that is. That also was a very rude and primitive voting system. Still much better than anything that came after..
> is the old Roman way
Such voting were probably sometimes tainted by money, lies,
status and threats.
> Still believing the vote meme.. x_X
> It is very difficult to believe in any kind of election system
What you both do is saying my arguments are not valid because they
are based on a naive claim that there is no election fraud.
There is always election fraud. My claim is there are democratic
countries where it is much more difficult to keep power if
80% of the voters resent the government.
In an oppressive police state what stops something like
the social point system?
In a democratic country what if 60% of the voters resent the
social point system? If 70% does? If 90% does?
Tonlee:
> "My claim is there are democratic countries where it is much more difficult to keep power if 80% of the voters resent the government."
In NZ, a 5 Eyes member, one surveillance agency now seems to have the power to control what hardware telecoms companies use in their networks, to make sure it isn't secure against being backdoored by 5 Eyes agencies:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1812/S00013/gordon-campbell-five-lingering-questions-on-the-huawei-ban.htm
NZ chooses its governments by majority-rule elections. What proportion of the population do you think voted for the country to be part of that surveillance system, let alone be able to control what hardware their telecoms vendors use? It doesn't matter. Whichever of the two major parties becomes the government after each election, both continue to support and extend the powers of the surveillance agencies, including those that are part of the 5 Eyes.
> "In an oppressive police state what stops something like the social point system?
Quiet lobbying by oligarchs who have influence in the ruling party, and have been convinced by quiet lobbying, in private conversations, that it's a bad idea?
To be clear, I'm not defending Chinese government's social points system, its corporatist style of government, or its suppression of free speech, free association, freedom of belief, and other democratic rights. My point is I think there's more to democracy than elections. In fact, not only am I not convinced that centralized governments controlled by whoever wins majority-rules elections are essential to democracy, I suspect they might be bad for democracy. The 5 Eyes countries all elect governments by popular majority, as does Russia, yet it does not seem to stop them sliding towards being oppressive police states.
In short, China used to be a socialist nation, but not is any more. Have you heard of the (in)famous capitalist reforms led by Deng Xiao-ping 40 years ago?
Had the cultural revolution been victorious, China could still be a socialist nation. Let's commemorate October 6th 1976, a grim day for all workers around the world...
Current China is far worse than Orwellian. We who living in China already have telescreen (mass surveillance), memory hole (mass censorship) and thoughts police (social credits).
> Had the cultural revolution been victorious, China could still be a socialist nation.
A democracy is not in favor of socialism or any other ideology. A
democratic constitution gives people the right to form their
opinions. Have those opinions represented in parliament by members
of parliament elected in free, equal and secret elections.
In a class society, be it slavery, feudalism or capitalism, there is no democracy.
The People's Republic of China had fallen on October 6th, 1976. Whatever is currently known as China is no longer people's republic. It's bureaucrats' and capitalists' regime in the recent 40 years.
Likewise, the socialist Soviet Union had fallen in 1956, when Khrushchev started "de-Stalinization".
Ummmm, no. The socialist Soviet Union fell when the Bolsheviks took power away from the soviets (democratic popular assemblies) and re-centralized it in a monolithic, corporatist state. This happened long before the coup when Stalin took power, and to suggest that anything about the Stalinist era was "socialist" is about as historical as the US conservatives who like to claim that the Nazis were typical of "socialism":
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=hUFvG4RpwJI
SuperTramp83 said:
The only voting system I might slightly believe in is the old Roman way: in the town square, you stand up when it is your turn and you yell it loud and clear, the name of the candidate that is. That also was a very rude and primitive voting system. Still much better than anything that came after..
My opinion in the subject varies. depending the time. age, or who is the conqueror your opinion it all depends on the type of tyrant you might implied too. for example the roman old style republic or the roman dictatorship your life might-survive..... i prefer the old style republic.
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