Could KDE be a permanent options for DEs?

21 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
amtrakuk
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Beigetreten: 11/26/2019

I've been flirting with Triskel (KDE version) for a while and really loving it. There are a load of hurdles I have jumped, the big one was getting apps to access files over the LAN as KDE seems to have gone down its own protocol route. Preventing non native applications to access network resources. SMB4K was the savior, a bit fiddly to setup but the rewards made it well worth it - not only was browsing the samba box was lightning fast but also finally media opened over the LAN in your favorite media player.

KDE seems to be a lot more efficient on resources than MATE, the differences are obvious.

Finally with all that, said the only "issue" which I'm sure I'll understand and conquer is plasma-discovery - the update/package manager.

Keepup the great work on KDE

Malsasa
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Beigetreten: 12/01/2016

> KDE seems to be a lot more efficient on resources than MATE, the differences are obvious.

You are right. Glad to find another one to love Trisquel KDE!

nadebula.1984
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Beigetreten: 05/01/2018

I've used Debian testing with (almost vanilla) KDE on a tablet, in order to run Krita "natively". Only once I experienced window manager problem. I could press Ctrl+Alt+F2 and log in the terminal, and run "sudo tasksel" to install a backup desktop environment. The KDE window manager issue got fixed very quickly (within 2 or 3 days).

Even if I installed both KDE and Gnome, the 16-GB SSD could still hold them.

Andy
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Beigetreten: 02/02/2020

Ignoring links to mega bucks KDE Shuttleworth do you have any proof of your claims for efficiency re KDE. In my opinion Mate is more efficient with LXDE taking first place by some margin.
Could you conduct real world test as in screen shot below to convince me. Play a GNU video in browser with LibreOffice or AbiWord, Gimp editing a photo with printer connected - system monitor showing CPU and RAM usage would be cool..
Failing that a "free" command in Terminal will suffice for now....
Expect that you will be as shocked at Trisqel-mini LXDE using just 247MB RAM of 8GB.... even less on my old XP-Pro 3D CAD workstation.

Trisqel-Load-01.png minimax-RAMused-04.png Trisquel-Lightweight-01.png miniTri-Terminal-free-01.png
Andy
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Beigetreten: 02/02/2020

So that other readers of this post are not misinformed could I make the case that quite the opposite is true – correct me if I am wrong – That MATE is far more efficient than KDE, the differences are indeed obvious.
I have been very open and provided evidence of resource usage for Trisquel MATE on my HP G60 Notebook – 376MB RAM at idle rising to 1.1GB when multitasking playing a video in web page with other apps open and loaded. See pics above.
You may ask why the exponents of this KDE are now silent and no numbers are offered. Even KDE web page gives no numbers. Their old claims to be fast and efficient were only in comparison to their own older releases – oh dear…!
So what are the numbers that KDE do not want you to know…? Quite hard to find but..
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2019/10/23/bold-prediction-kde-will-steal-the-lightweight-linux-desktop-crown-in-2020/?sh=3f74d99e26d2
You will see that KDE neon uses 957MB RAM at idle confirmed by screenshot of Konsole. As all can now see MATE is far more efficient at just 376MB RAM used. Put another way KDE uses 250% more RAM than MATE just standing still – as I said “the differences are indeed obvious.”
Let us now move into real world multi tasking mode – the guys at Forbes, link above, set up their KDE Neon with File Manager, Terminal and Firefox – so for your convenience I have done the same with Trisquel MATE with File Manager, Terminal and Abrowser.
Bet you guys can guess which is the best regarding efficiency resource usage…?
Yes, you were right – resource heavy KDE used a whopping 1.15GB of RAM for this simple task, whereas the efficient Trisquel MATE used only 619MB of RAM.
In conclusion – if you wish to slow your device down install KDE or if you wish to move into the fast lane install Trisquel MATE or if you wish to fly at warp factor ten; install Trisquel-mini LXDE on an i7 >>>>>>>

Tri-Mate-vs-KDE-01.png
nadebula.1984
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Beigetreten: 05/01/2018

One question: Why should one use Samba/SMB when s/he could use SSH/SFTP?

Legimet
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Beigetreten: 12/10/2013

KDE Plasma may use more RAM, but that itself wouldn't make it slow unless you're running out of RAM and swapping. I have a pretty low-end, 7 year old laptop and Plasma is pretty fast. I don't have any other DE installed so I can't compare. If you choose Plasma, I do suggest disabling baloo and akonadi.

Andy
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Beigetreten: 02/02/2020

Sorry Legimet; now you too have added to the misinformation about KDE - It is very easy, too easy, to make statements about performance without providing a shred or nano particle of evidence to substantiate your wild claims. I have tried and failed to encourage members to corroborate their wild assertions with some numbers or other verifiable source. I too could say that LXDE is the fastest most efficient OS known to man – it is totally meaningless without corroboration.
It would seem that you did not take the time to study the evidence, including links, that I provided above before you posted? Yes KDE will be slowing down your “pretty low-end, 7 year old laptop” and NO - “Plasma is pretty fast” though being a relative term, is just not true – more misinformation! My HP laptop is way older than yours and Trisquel MATE is way faster born of efficiency than the KDE in tests by “Forbes” and others – if you zoom into the Forbes screenshot you will see that CPU is running at 49% on just one thread so CPU usage is high too compared with Trisquel MATE.
Other readers may note that in first picture of my post #3 you can see that the video is actually playing live, web connected, with more apps open using 1.1GB rather than the 1.15GB in Forbes with static web page with no live video playing or hungry apps open let alone loaded.
If you wish to put up with the inefficiency of KDE just to have toy town features; be my guest; each to their own, but please stop making silly claims about KDE that do not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. If your workflow is of importance then Trisquel MATE is just fine but if speed born of efficiency is your thing then juice up Trisquel-mini LXDE – simple!
Hey Guys - no need to jump through any hurdles or disable baloo, akonadi or anything else - just get on with your work - simple!
If you look on in horror at KDE patrons – Canonical, Google, Suse etc etc that too convinces me to keep as far away from KDE as far as possible – then there is the Shuttleworth-Amazon link – OMG.
Post Topic - “Could KDE be a permanent options for DEs?” - Heaven Help Us…!

PublicLewdness
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Beigetreten: 03/15/2020

I would be fine with the addidion of KDE in theory. In practice I get the idea that resources and man power are in short suppply for the Trisquel team and could probably be better spent elsewhere.

lanun
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Beigetreten: 04/01/2021

In fact I am not sure why this thread exists. KDE is already the default DE available on Triskel. So MATE fans only need to use Trisquel and KDE fans only need to use Triskel, which means that a lot of people must already be happy.

Maybe the difference between the names "Trisquel" and "Triskel" is too small not to be confused for a typo, at times, since it reads the same. There have already been suggestions to rename Triskel "KDE Trisquel" or "Trisquel/KDE", in order to avoid confusion. Visiting an ophthalmologist might help too.

MATE vs KDE vs You-name-it-DE debates might seem pointless. It is just great to have so much choice (XFCE, Lxde, tons of window managers, etc.) so that so many users can find the DE that fits their needs pretty much out of the box. I personally find MATE to be great, including on resources. I could not say the same about GNOME3, for instance.

Avron
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Beigetreten: 08/18/2020

I don't care about the choice of the desktop enviromnent but I want to continue using the same when upgrading to a newer version.

Besides, I have two questions:

1) can I use any program of the KDE project (like Okular) without the KDE desktop environment (with MATE or even with a simple window manager and no desktop environment) and any program of the GNOME project without the GNOME desktop environment?

2) Is there some utility similar to the MATE control center in order to adjust screen resolution, keyboard layout, and all hardware related configuration, that works regardless of the desktop environment or even without any (just a window manager)?

Magic Banana

I am a member!

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010
  1. Yes, you can.
  2. Common utilities (for instance Alacarte, to edit the main menu) may be used to configure different desktop environments respecting the freedesktop.org's "interoperability specifications": https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/
Legimet
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Beigetreten: 12/10/2013

Not sure why KDE upsets you so much, if you don't like it don't use it. I haven't made any "wild claims," I'm just stating that it works well for me and is fast on my low-end computer. And besides, all of us Plasma users get monthly checks from Shuttleworth.

I haven't tried MATE and I have no intention of doing so because saving 300 MB of RAM is not important to me. Meanwhile I have a family member with a much worse computer and I installed XFCE on it.

There are a lot of DEs, so just use whatever works best for you and accept that other people will have different preferences.

Andy
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Beigetreten: 02/02/2020

Legimet > accept that other people will have different preferences. - Please read my posts carefully; did you not read my post > to have toy town features; be my guest; each to their own….
Legimet > and is fast on my low-end computer. - Got any evidence to back up this wild misleading claim…? Thought not..!
Legimet > saving 300 MB of RAM – where is this from – confused? Please explain this saving.

Legimet
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Beigetreten: 12/10/2013

>Please read my posts carefully; did you not read my post > to have toy town features; be my guest; each to their own….

Yeah I read your posts, and you are being needlessly antagonistic in a thread about a piece of software that nobody's forcing you to use. If I instead used a barebones DE like i3 or whatever is trendy right now I could just as easily trash talk MATE for its "toy town" features, whatever that means.

>Got any evidence to back up this wild misleading claim…? Thought not..!

Why should I provide evidence? I say from everyday usage that it's fast on *my* computer. I don't know anything about your situation, and I don't care whether or not you use Plasma.

>where is this from – confused? Please explain this saving.

With no applications open I have about 300-400 MB more RAM than your figure of 376 MB. I have no interest in switching DEs just to save 300 or 400 MB of RAM. It's pretty small in comparison to Firefox's RAM usage when I have 50-100 tabs open. And the monthly checks from Shuttleworth more than outweigh any increase in RAM usage.

Andy
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Beigetreten: 02/02/2020

Oh Dear Legimet, you are getting so wound up and antagonistic – calm down – so you got found out dishing out false information to our membership. Hey – no one is forcing me to use anything – you nether! I am not the one making false statements and withholding evidence – I am quite open and honest and will provide evidence to back up what I write or freely give any data within my meagre capabilities to anyone who can benefit from it as I have done throughout this post.
So you did read my post “to have toy town features; be my guest; each to their own…." Yet, without any acknowledgement you now move the goalposts onto > “If I instead used a barebones DE like i3 or whatever is trendy right now I could just as easily trash talk MATE for its "toy town" features, whatever that means. Now you are being both silly and disingenuous. So you profess to not know of the “toy town” features or even what it means yet you say could easily trash MATE for this reason. Hey – which is it dude? Are you throwing a tantrum?
Ask anyone with a little basic knowledge about DEs – Hey ask me! KDE toy town features and other infantile features to slow your device – shall I start with Wobbly Windows, Fall Apart, Looking Glass, Blur, Desktop Animations, Glide, Scale, Rubberband Maximize, Grayscale Effect and a shedload more. None are required for your workflow – but it will slow your device! Yet you say KDE is fast – but when asked to substantiate this false claim you respond with > “Why should I provide evidence? I say ... it's fast”
Guess anyone reading this will see straight through that cop out…?
So we finally get some numbers from you admitting that Triskel-KDE uses 100% more RAM (guess 100% more CPU too) at idle than Trisquel-MATE – so that shows the statements at the top of this thread to be utterly false and very misleading too. Most will know only too well that as we move into the real world of workflow; matters will only get much worse till some lower spec laptops grind to a halt.
Did I mention the 100 or more software bugs...?
amtrakuk and Malsasa > KDE seems to be a lot more efficient on resources than MATE, the differences are obvious. Malsasa says > You are right.
Hey you Guys – got any more funny stories…?

Magic Banana

I am a member!

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010

So we finally get some numbers from you admitting that Triskel-KDE uses 100% more RAM (guess 100% more CPU too) at idle than Trisquel-MATE – so that shows the statements at the top of this thread to be utterly false and very misleading too.

If you are referring to Legimet's first statement in this thread, that "KDE Plasma may use more RAM, but that itself wouldn't make it slow unless you're running out of RAM and swapping", it is true: unused RAM does not make programs run faster.

Legimet
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Beigetreten: 12/10/2013

> you got found out dishing out false information to our membership.

I have not made any statements saying Plasma is superior to other desktop environments. I just said it works well for *me* from personal experience, something that a few other people in this thread agree with.

> Wobbly Windows, Fall Apart, Looking Glass, Blur, Desktop Animations, Glide, Scale, Rubberband Maximize, Grayscale Effect

I genuinely didn't know that these are the "toy town" features you're referring to. On my system these are all disabled. There are many reasons that people might like Plasma besides some desktop animations (one of which is actually useful, the "looking glass") such as the customizability or KDE applications. And if someone does like desktop effects, I don't see what is the problem, if their hardware can handle it.

> I say ... it's fast”

It's fast on **my** device, which happens to be pretty slow compared to most of my peers' laptops. I never claimed Plasma is fast on all devices, it just works well for me.

> Most will know only too well that as we move into the real world of workflow; matters will only get much worse till some lower spec laptops grind to a halt.

Increased RAM usage doesn't mean Plasma is slow. Speed and memory usage are two different issues, and in some cases increased memory usage actually can make a program faster.

For example, I use Okular, the KDE PDF viewer. It lets you adjust the memory usage. If you allow it to use more memory, it caches more pages thus making it faster. In this particular case there is a space-time tradeoff, a well-known concept in computer science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space%E2%80%93time_tradeoff

In my situation I wouldn't use a slow desktop environment, but a few hundred MB of extra RAM usage is not a big deal to me.

> Hey – which is it dude? Are you throwing a tantrum?

Relax. I'm not a KDE shill trying to spread misinformation. I'm just a KDE/Plasma user for over a decade (since the KDE 3 days) and I happen to like it, especially after the transition from 4 to 5. I have nothing against MATE or LXDE, I'm sure they are great desktop environments especially for people with less RAM. Anyway, let's just try to get along regardless of which DEs we use. I'm out of here, have a good day.

Malsasa
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Beigetreten: 12/01/2016

Hello, all!

On 8/12/21, name at domain <name at domain> wrote:

> > I say ... it's fast”
>
> It's fast on **my** device. I never claimed Plasma is fast on all devices,
> it
> just works well for me.
>
> Please, chill. I'm not trying to mislead users to switch to a desktop
> environment that doesn't work for them. I've used KDE/Plasma for over a
> decade and I just like it.

Hello, Legimet. I also use KDE for over a decade and it works too on
me on all my laptops and also it works on my students laptops and PCs.
I made KDE mandatory for them. I use KDE on a Pentium 4GB it works for
years, and before, I also use it on Celeron 2GB it works great too. I
think it is great decision Trisquel Developer Team made Triskel
(Trisquel KDE Edition).

Regards,
Malsasa

Legimet
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Beigetreten: 12/10/2013

That's nice. I grew up using KDE 3 on SUSE (before it was OpenSUSE, I believe).

Malsasa
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Beigetreten: 12/01/2016

Same, I also grew up with KDE 3 on Mandriva at that time. I am glad
now I can use KDE 5 on Trisquel. Thank you all Trisquel developers.

Regards,
Malsasa

Andy
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Beigetreten: 02/02/2020

Hi Magic-B, guess you missed the fist two posts?
amtrakuk and Malsasa > KDE seems to be a lot more efficient on resources than MATE, the differences are obvious. Malsasa says > You are right.
It will be obvious to you that these statements about KDE are entirely false and may mislead our members and visitors alike.
You confirm that if you are low on RAM and swap is invoked the user experience will be slow, dead slow – quite right – you will reach this threshold sooner with KDE than MATE or LXDE. Add to this - increased CPU usage and things get slower without running out of RAM – I have seen CPUs peaking at 100%.
You say, perhaps too hastily that….? > it is true: unused RAM does not make programs run faster.
Well, could I suggest that – Imagine two identical low spec laptops; one using bloated Triskel-KDE with nothing disabled and the other using the standard efficient lightweight Trisquel-MATE.
Both running the same CPU-RAM hungry apps. Trisquel-MATE would still be fast with some “unused RAM” to spare whereas Triskel-KDE would be in the red SWAP zone grinding to a halt in swap with CPUs maxing out.
It is clear that many actual users of KDE are complaining en mass that they are running slow with about 70% of RAM used. Posts marked as a solution include; you need more than 4MB RAM or close some applications. I can’t argue with all those KDE users complaints about being so slow - this would bring into question your claims about unused RAM would it not?
After all said and done; KDE did not get an international reputation for being slow, bugsy and bloated for no reason...!