forced to Cisco proprietary

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404
404
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Beigetreten: 04/09/2015

Ok, i admit.Have to study for a Cisco certification.
I feel forced to this Proprietary world.But i need food to live,so i have to.
Here's few option:
Run Packet Tracer on Wine
Run GNS3 an then use Cisco firmwares
Do labs with online services($$$)
Use Real Cisco equipment($$$)

What would you do if you were in my boat?

pragmatist

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Beigetreten: 03/03/2016

"I feel forced to this Proprietary world.But i need food to live,so i have to."

If you want to do this, that is your choice. To say you are 'forced' to does not make sense. Nobody has a gun to your head. There are other types of jobs in the world that will give you enough money so you will not starve.

If this is not something you want to do, do something else.

404
404
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Beigetreten: 04/09/2015

I'm unemployed and i have two option:
Do this course or back to flip burgers.
Why you didn't answer on the options listed?

pragmatist

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Beigetreten: 03/03/2016

"Why you didn't answer on the options listed?"

It is important to clarify the first part of what you said.

"I'm unemployed and i have two option:
Do this course or back to flip burgers."

How it could it possibly just be those two possibilities? If you have the general intelligence and ability to get this certification, you have alternatives other than flipping burgers!

SuperTramp83

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Beigetreten: 10/31/2014

pragmatist: idealism is good. I myself am a big one, but, starving is not an option. You don't know where the OP lives, you don't know how bad the economy is in their country. I live in Italy and I assure you unemployment is incredibly high and very common here. Starving is not an option.

I remember Stallman once said something like:
"And if you are offered the choice between having to write proprietary code or starving, then refuse to write that code and steal the food somewhere."

As much as I like Stallman, I don't think jail is an option either.

Do what you feel, OP. If you can find a better option then do, if not, don't starve, get the certificate.

pragmatist

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Beigetreten: 03/03/2016

You are misrepresenting my advice to the OP. My advice was to avoid absolutist thinking and cognitive dissonance--i.e. 'forced to', 'cisco or flipping burgers' and so on.
Nowhere did I say, or even imply, that starvation was an option.

Nobody, not even rms, thinks a person should die before they should develop nonfree software (steal yes, die no). But I wasn't suggesting that the OP steal either. I was simply questioning what sounded to me like it may be cognitive dissonance.

The OP is not the first person to put things in these terms:
Watch between 1:16:15 and 1:21:10 of the following video, it is the very first question of the Q&A:
https://audio-video.gnu.org/video/2015-05-27--rms--chania--greece.webm

That view is expressed very well and it is a view that I share.

Now, for all I know a Cisco certification does not equate to nonfree software development. The OP indicated that he thought it was a problem and my comments were directed toward the OP's views.

Mangy Dog

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Beigetreten: 03/15/2015

What would you do if you were in my boat?

Hoist the jib
Hoist the mainsail
trim the jib
trim the mainsail
set a course
have a beer
relax
think about it
....
Pragmastist :

If this is not something you want to do, do something else

that was the wind whispering to you............
Follow the wind or you heart
sometimes you do have to do crummy jobs but starve is no fun either...

and if you young well be patient and give yourself the opportunity to achieve your goals(and you may need cash for that)

OK 404?

GNUser
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Beigetreten: 07/17/2013

Hey man!
I feel your pain. To a certain extent most of us are actually forced to use proprietary software in our work place, just some people don't admit it.
Yes, if one has to use a computer which has Windows installed, or watch videos of something using Flash, you are using proprietary software! Don't be a prick and say that the guy is the only one doing it just because he is in a position that is more directly involved with technology.
And to say to someone (unemployed or not) that you should just get another job, that is just disgusting and arrogant.

So, to answer your question, honestly I don't know much about it, but I would say that maybe using the wine option is the least bad one? Think about long-term however, will that be sustainable for the whole project? Or are you going to go through pain to get it working this way now only to have a different and situation tomorrow that will get you a step back? Think about the best long term option, which might or might not be wine.

Hope you the best man.

GNUser
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Beigetreten: 07/17/2013

Just an addon... if you ever have the chance to take another job that is within your expectations (something that you enjoy and pays enough for your living) I think that you should consider a change. But only when those requirements are met. Until then do the best you can.

404
404
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Beigetreten: 04/09/2015

Ok i had my beer(actually 2).
I've thinked about it.
You don't know the circumstances ("have to").
Yes is painful to do crummy jobs.
Gonna have a glass of Wine for now.

Mangy Dog

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I am a translator!

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Beigetreten: 03/15/2015

404
my answer may have sounded "light winded"and those above ones are more sensible.
I don't know "the circumstances"as you say.Economic crisis is worldwide.Assuming you are in the USA ?

To answer your question more directly i know of a developer of Libre software who is actually doing a Linux certification (he has a business thought)

By looking at
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/training-events/training-certifications/certifications.html
it mostly looks like networking courses?

Is that your aim Administrating Networks ?

404
404
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Beigetreten: 04/09/2015

I have to choose a training program founded by the government to be entitled for unemployment benefit.I'm not young but even not too old to start a career in the IT field which i'm interested. In my town there's a good chance to find jobs as a system/network admin.Most of the candidates should have knowledge with Cisco equipment and some GNU/Linux skills.Unfortunately they didn't provide any GNU/Linux course at the moment.
The study process will require to create various topologies/scenarios with some simulators,emulators or real equipment.

hack and hack
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Beigetreten: 04/02/2015

What I would do in your boat:
- Online services? $$$ and also javascript, most likely non-free.
- Real Cisco equipment? Besides the money, is it required, or just recommended for the course?
- Run Packet Tracer on Wine: sounds like an option, though I'd add some Apparmor and Firejail to Wine.
- Run GNS3 an then use Cisco firmwares: why not. Dual boot is a possiblity. Also using another machine (an old one you don't use, a cheap one you can buy). I guess you won't be needing a monster CPU or RAM capacity.
- Also, virtual machines (I'll probably be called out for recommending installing Windows on the side in a virtual machine if you ever need to study specific cases related to such OS, specially if you don't run on Libreboot, so I won't).

So I would probably use another dedicated machine, just for that. If that's not possible, I'd dual boot. Else, Wine, but I'd rather keep my personal stuff as separated as possible from that Cisco stuff.

Jodiendo
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Beigetreten: 01/09/2013

MR 404

To be or not to be.

Have you ever cut grass for weeks or months at the time for just 20 bucks?
I did, To many times at my young life.

Have you ever painted a house and scrape iron fences from rust to be repainted again?
Done that..

Did you ever had to shine shoes and boots for someone?
been and done that, it pay for my meals.

Did you ever got up everyday at 5:00 am to deliver 50 newspapers to customers,during rain,snow or shine? surely I never drop the schedule it pay for my needs at younger age.

Did I ever flip burgers?
Yes I have.It surely paid for my needs.

Did you ever work at a gas station? while watching your friends party and get all drunk? surely for many years. Good thing, I always had my own hard earn money, my own nice cloth and shoes. While others look like "someone crap on them". I knew and establish my own goals were define differently at early age.

Did you ever finish High School?
Surely I did, while working my butt off.

Have you ever held a job that pays 60 to 70 thousand a year?
I did and I'm proud about it. The skills that I learn are applicable in every way.

Have you ever dream of retiring at early age?
Surely, I did and I love my hard earn monthly retirement. I do see others get up early to work, while I'm drinking coffee and reading my own newspaper everyday.
Yes, I do drive to school my princess, 5 times a week and my wife is working and driving at the same time without dazzles.

Do I have to depend for survival on proprietary or not proprietary hardware and software?

Partially, I understand the differences. I could make better choices more wiser, since I did learn to recognize them. Still is not a perfect world. Computers are not humans, just stupid machines.

Would I depend on this for the lively hood of my family? I personally wont, as long I got people and mouth to feed at home that I'm responsible for. Reality is other.

So Quit intoxicating your body with fermented beer and wine, and take your happy soul to work or study!

and yes, I did finished my college degree, got my certifications from Microsoft A+ networking, Cisco Ccent and my ccna. Do I regret it? Nope I don't, again it help my me a lot with knowledge, it did improve my skills sets and help me to obtain decent paying Jobs.

I forgot to add: Yes, Recently, for 3 years I build my own company, my own investment, I became my own boss, which I recently sold for a decent profit.

Unfortunately, this former purchaser of the company I sold too, did not understood a few things; the definition of smart business practices, to work hard, able to lead and train your teams proficiently and make them technical savvy with knowledge and to be a team player. My former purchaser was not capable and could not handle the pressure, the budget, and honor the warranty agreements. The former purchaser of my previous owed company was a failure in disguised.

Yes again I'm on my own venture again. Failure is not an option.

SuperTramp83

I am a translator!

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Beigetreten: 10/31/2014

viejito found the time to write a papyrus hehe X_X

Jodiendo
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Beigetreten: 01/09/2013

SuperTramp83

you forgot to add my feather pen and my china ink...
That is why any feather bird never like me at those days....

404
404
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Beigetreten: 04/09/2015

Thanks for all your answers.
hack and hack:
- Online services-->javascript=BAD
- Real Cisco equipment:Not required for the course but might be the best option.Just need to find some way to emulate End Devices thorough VLANs with my laptop NIC.Any thoughts?
- Wine/Packet Tracer= Good for who needs mobility.Not my case.
- GNS3/Cisco IOSes= Another good option.But what about these firmwares?

hack and hack
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Beigetreten: 04/02/2015

Basically, my idea was to separate your personal computing and data from anything Cisco.
If you run a separated OS (or even several OS) in either:
- a virtual machine
- Wine, hardened preferably
- or another computer,
then even Javascript or the firmwares aren't much of an issue in terms of privacy.

I'm not a fan of online services also because you can't study much when offline.

If not needed, I wouldn't spend on Cisco hardware. You might be able to study most of the features on paper, and maybe there are ways to test it without owning one during the course.
Plus if you have the cash for Cisco equipment, investing on a dedicated work/study laptop isn't a bad idea IMO.

I'm not sure how Wine relates to mobility though.

I hope this answers your question.

Jodiendo
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Beigetreten: 01/09/2013

I agree with you, separate machines to keep the jobs secluded from each other,