Thoughts about the impact and future direction of proprietary software and technologies of surveillance and control.

17 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
fbit

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Beigetreten: 07/07/2013

tl;dr

Given the continued trends of proprietary software and surveillance technologies, what is strategically the best course of action for those of us who care -- not only from an individual perspective, but also in terms of the wider harmful effects of these technologies to the fabric and structure of our societies, from our relationships with nuclear family to extended family, friends, and our professional lives? Thoughts?

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The following is an attempt to put into words some questions and thoughts I've been mulling over for a while. I would be happy to hear the opinions of others here about them. As invasive proprietary technology makes further and further incursions into our lives in ways that give us less and less possibility to defend ourselves against, what are strategically the most meaningful positions to take? As has been mentioned in the past by Mr. Moglen, the surveillance society we live under, represents an ecological problem, so individual actions are not enough to change course (not unrelated nor so different from the unabashed corporate led destruction of the environment and depletion of resources for short-term narrow-minded objectives, that we are currently living through).

One good example of what I mean can be illustrated by my relationship with google. I have, for a long time, done my utmost to keep google out of my life and have done so successfully on all fronts except for Youtube, and whatever Analytics or other such surveillance are used on some of the websites I visit and where turning JS off renders the site unusable. Lately, I have noticed more and more of a trend in that wherever I visit there are more and more ubiquitous surveillance devices. There is one such product from google that looks like a cylinder speaker and records everything around it (not to mention devices from other corporations such as "smart" TV's, amazon's whatever it's called, etc.) . Now I see google has come up with a camera that people can mount anywhere and which will be on at all times examine an area using artificial intelligence to determine when to record photos and videos of "cute" moments. It is not difficult to see where this trend is headed and how in spite of all efforts to resist these abusive corporations, they will make every effort to encroach further and further into our private lives and they will succeed, largely with fanfares and praise from those they are abusing.

When will it reach the point where those of us opposed to this surveillance capitalism model will be completely ostracized and marginalized from society? When will the question become "google or me" and our loved ones choose google because they perceive can no longer (nor want to) live without it? These mega-corporations have managed to endear themselves into the minds of many adults in our societies in a way that I find truly alarming. Many people who are technologically completely ignorant but who have such strong feelings and views about these for profit corporations and technologies they do not understand and which mistreat and abuse them. With children it's even worse. I have met young kids who tell me they like to chat with google because she knows everything and she is so nice and funny. What will become of these kids and their relationships with these corporations when they become adults? How will they perceive these corporations and the ubiquitous control and surveillance? How will they interact with them and how will they in turn teach their children?

What to do in light of these continuing trends and the mostly complete lack of caring that people show about these issues -- even after Snowden's revelations, which I actually feel largely created a sense of "we're already doomed by surveillance so lets just embrace it all and cease the moment" in the mainstream consciousness? I realize there are many who are alarmed and even many who mount efforts to resist and counteract and that thanks to these efforts there is at least still a choice in the matter for some technologies and for those of us who care, but to what extent will that become less meaningful as we come to not even physically control the devices that are used to control and surveil us? I can already envisage situations where the "owners" of such devices (many times family and friends) will be offended by the request to turn them off when we're around, feeling that these requests are attempts to control how *they* choose live their lives and the technologies they choose in their own homes/environments. And, when that time comes, what should those of us who care do about it and what will those of us we care about choose when faced with such a choice?

On that subject one of the big questions is what does it mean to be a radical or a conservative? Are those who embrace the latest technologies blindly and allow giant undemocratic institutions and corporations to drastically alter social structures actually the radicals, and those who question the fundamental assumptions and are skeptical of embracing every new gadget, toy and technology as inherently positive actually the conservatives. Sometimes I feel as though we're living a mass induced psychotic break from reality and the few of us who try to question it are immediately labeled as intolerant luddites and paranoid conspiracy theorists.

For a long time I have questioned the strategic effect of those who obviously care and are actively trying to resist/mitigate/change the situation but who use platforms such as google or facebook or twitter, etc. to do so. For a long time I have wondered how useful this would be strategically and what other options are available besides this. Now as I see the current trend of these corporations becoming the "curators of reality" it becomes clear that the perceived short-term tactical gains may not have necessarily justified the long-term strategic loses of coming to depend on these corporations. I know that in the case of free software RMS has been very consistent in the long-term and as a result, the GNU and free software projects stand strong as a last stronghold for those of us who reject the control exercised through proprietary software. However, how useful will that continue to be in light of new evolving technologies and what -- if any -- thinking needs to be made moving forward.

I. Khider
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Beigetreten: 01/19/2013

Oh darling, before we get into that. Let us first address the behaviour of Trisquel site runners. Let them observe their own terms and conditions before we start pointing fingers via this site elsewhere. : - )

fbit

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Beigetreten: 07/07/2013

Hi I. Khider,

We can do both simultaneously if you post a new topic with your concerns. I have never had an issue with anyone on this site though -- moderator or otherwise -- so I don't know if I will have anything to contribute. Have a nice day.

chaosmonk

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Beigetreten: 07/07/2017

Thanks for sharing this. I hope you know what a positive force you are in this forum.

quantumgravity
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Beigetreten: 04/22/2013

"I am old. "
Don't get me wrong, but you're saying this in almost all of your posts, litteraly. And I'm far from reading every single post on this forum, I only scan them briefly. Still I got this impression.
Maybe you're taking this whole age-thing a bit too serious?

SuperTramp83

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Beigetreten: 10/31/2014

> Still I got this impression.

Yeah.. Old is who old does, remember!

fbit

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Beigetreten: 07/07/2013

Hi Heather,

Thanks for sharing; your post makes a lot of sense. I always read your posts with interest because you make matters resonate on a personal level and help to put things in perspective.

This is the first time I hear the story of RMS having to say that someone he loved had just died in order to feel that he would be allowed to grieve.

I can see that one of the most powerful antidotes for those feelings is to become proactive and do something constructive about it. I read it from SuperTramp's response and I read it in ADFENO's post as well. Being able to focus one's energies positively is a way to overcome the frustration and I suppose also to find people who think alike.

Finally, I don't know how old you are or anything else about you, so take these as words thrown to the wind...as long as we're alive there's always time to turn life around. Like any big task, the most difficult bit is getting started and managing to keep focus long enough for things to start changing. I've seen it happen before. The worst fear about saying it's too late (or you're too old) is to find yourself saying it again 5, 10, 15 years later and realizing that it was in fact quite early.

I don't mean to lecture you. You always sound intelligent and capable, please don't take the above as condescension.

SuperTramp83

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Beigetreten: 10/31/2014

Pessimism is not realism and realism is: people, most of them, don't care and the trend is certainly not going to stop or slow down, it will actually explode more. I agree with the point expressed in the book "The transparent society" - surveillance is here to stay. Whether the peasants will have any control and restriction over it is a matter of speculation, or not, if you count the current situation... We already have 0 control over it.
I really think the only thing you can do is teach others by example using the only real power you have left: rejection. Keep not buying and keep not using: there is very little action more powerful than that you can do **legally**.

chaosmonk

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Beigetreten: 07/07/2017

A relationship with the developer of or company controlling a piece of proprietary software is like any other abusive relationship. Often, the relationship is perpetuated by emotional or practical dependence on perpetrator, sometimes to the point that the victim will defend their abuser. When someone you care about is in this kind of relationship it can be very frustrating. However, you can't force them to change their mind, and if you push too hard you will lose their trust.

I think the solution is to intermittently communicate the problems you see over an extended period of time, and hope that they'll begin to see it on their own. When I talk to someone about the importance of privacy and software freedom, the conversation always ends with them unconvinced. Often though, if we talk about it a few weeks later they'll have started to reach some of the same conclusions after making their own observations with what I said in mind.

It's a slow process, and only a solution at the individual level. However, if society as a whole is doomed then the best we can do is mitigate the damage to ourselves and the people we care about, and if society is not doomed then we should keep doing our best.

I was watching an interview with RMS a while ago and he was asked if he believed that the Free Software Movement will win. He responded (I'm paraphrasing) that if you believe you will win you risk underestimating your enemy, and if you believe you will lose you risk giving up when you could have won. Either way, there is no benefit in trying to answer that question.

fbit

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Beigetreten: 07/07/2013

Yes, I had not thought about it this way, but it is indeed like any other abusive relationship.

Thanks a lot for your thoughtful answer.

The capacity of RMS to continue his activism over such a long period is something worth learning about. I like his response.

There's a book by Hillary Rettig (a friend of RMS I believe) called "Lifelong Activist." I've read parts of it and it is a recommended read.

I. Khider
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Beigetreten: 01/19/2013

This is a good book on that topic:
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf

People buy the things that fbit mentions because they do not know any better and/or conditioning. If part of the RMS' books can be distilled into some more digestable format to explain to people the importance of privacy and the four freedoms, things may change. This whole new technology is just that, new. It has not been legislated and regulated yet. Right now commercial enterprise does as they want with user data, this should not be so. Proprietary software is used for government and education. This should not be so. When you try to explain the importance of free software to others, their eyes glaze over or they ask, "can you install it on Windows?". Even so-called sophisticated computer users and technicians who know better, buy these very things that violate privacy. Some do so automatically because everybody else buys it and advertising, others because there is money in it as a developer. The idea of FSF and Libre software usually enters people's minds when they reach university. By then, they have been indoctrinated into the proprietary stuff that it is tough to break out of the loop. Educate these ideas to youngsters, explain to them the importance of free software (and privacy) to a society that wants to be free. It is like educating the importance of taking care of the environment. Libre software and the environment (in terms of importance to a progressive society) should go hand-in-hand. Libre software ought be taught in schools and used as tools to teach with. Proprietary whatever has no place in government or educational spaces. Do we write to our senator to ask that Libre software be part of social fabric of our society? Perhaps now is the time.

Time to take Free Software Free Society to primary schools, libraries, community centres and any other such civic engagment. RMS' book is still obscure and this should not be so.

ADFENO
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Beigetreten: 12/31/2012

Here in the college where I study in Brazil I'm also doing some similar
effort, although I do this in college/university still.

Last year I made an edition of the Latin American Free Software
Installation Festival (in portuguese: Festival Latino-americano de
Instalação de Software Livre, FLISoL) in the city of Balneário Camboriú,
where I made a 40min introduction to free/libre software *philosophy*
and its members as important stakeholders for society and
sustainability. I'm not going to dwelve into how many people attended
the speech because what matters is the quality of the message, which as
far as I can tell was great. ;)

Next year I'll try to do the same, in the same college, if my time,
patience and money is found to be enough. Right now I'm struggling to
find a job or a way to receive money for the work I do as free/libre
software activist while still being compliant with local tributes/tax
laws. Donations and registering as an autonomous professional could be a
way, but I don't know how this works in case I receive donations and how
could I prove that these came thanks to my services. First I sought
advice from municipality's mayor/management office, but no single reply
yet, now I'm looking for other local organizations that might help (in
fact, I do have a list which I'll try to contact now, hoping that they
don't sell me "the next course that requires non-free software through
web browser in order to attend"). ;)

Finally, I'm also writing a Bachelor's degree final work on the subject
of university management, teaching-learning process and the
importance of free/libre software *philosophy* in these cases ([2]).

[1] .

[2] .

2017-11-24T01:45:53+0100 name at domain wrote:
> This is a good book on that topic:
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf
>
> People buy the things that fbit mentions because they do not know any
> better and/or conditioning. If part of the RMS' books can be distilled
> into some more digestable format to explain to people the importance
> of privacy and the four freedoms, things may change. This whole new
> technology is just that, new. It has not been legislated and regulated
> yet. Right now commercial enterprise does as they want with user data,
> this should not be so. Proprietary software is used for government and
> education. This should not be so. When you try to explain the
> importance of free software to others, their eyes glaze over or they
> ask, "can you install it on Windows?". Even so-called sophisticated
> computer users and technicians who know better, buy these very things
> that violate privacy. Some do so automatically because everybody else
> buys it and advertising, others because there is money in it as a
> developer. The idea of FSF and Libre software usually enters people's
> minds when they reach university. By then, they have been
> indoctrinated into the proprietary stuff that it is tough to break out
> of the loop. Educate these ideas to youngsters, explain to them the
> importance of free software to a society that wants to be free. It is
> like educating the importance of taking care of the environment. Libre
> software and the environment should go hand-in-hand. Libre software
> ought be taught in schools and used as tools to teach
> with. Proprietary whatever has no place in government or educational
> spaces. Do we write to our senator to ask that Libre software be part
> of social fabric of our society? Perhaps now is the time.
>
> Time to take Free Software Free Society to primary schools, libraries,
> community centres and any other such civic engagment. RMS' book is
> still obscure and this should not be so.
>

--
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gslima
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Beigetreten: 11/23/2017

What I see in future is a little dark, but also with a good possibility. Non-supervised Artificial inteligence will conclude the only way to solve the human problem is to be against government and bad big corporations, because of ubiquity of surveillance and so many rules to follow, beyond the knowledge and consent of most. So, it will crash the open market all over the world and offer the solution of distributed banking, owned by an AI no man can defeat, with respect with the true owners of the money: the people and respect for those who produce wealth, with not subject to government rules, but with justice, and with a civilization starter kit for every city, which would have features that would be unlocked by the fulfilment of civilizational goals with respect to nature. It will be like a game with set of more complex tasks, with growing responsibility. For example, for unlocking the resources of an eco-distributed-factory every citizen on neighbourhood would have to possess certain civic knowledge without consultation, which includes justification on answer. Also, this AI, would troll powerful closed companies to the point they perish, with trolling on patent process (sabotage on new patent registry systems, stimulation of indiegogo like projects, and integration with academic people), and nicer disruptions would occur beyond that: Distributed Factories, Distributed everything. People that have many proprieties that make no nice contribution to society will have they possessions in risk, but they won't die from hunger, they will be well sustained.
On countries that people are mostly unethical, there's a risk of separative movements, but that's ok.
But there's also another possibility, people can choose to ban Non-supervised AI (that would be hard, with China and Japan researchers, that would be really hard.) and regret of their sins more gradually, with the growth of individual and collective consciousness with much more suffering.

I. Khider
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Beigetreten: 01/19/2013

@gslima Humans program AI, so we still have a chance to encode some values into it, if AI ever becomes a serious thing. Take for example Asimov's law for robots. "A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm." Something similar can be programmed into the AI's. It would also be great, if AI's do take a greater responsibility in our society, to make the code free and open and unencumbered by US patent laws which have recently harmed more than helped our society. I don't like the idea of private corporations programming AI with proprietary code. Take for example drug companies that sit on cancer treatments but refuse to release them until market conditions are favorable. The corporations rather than humanity is served. Patents were there originally to help encourage innovation, but now this system is strangling it. So gslima, you see the future as dark because we (as a society) have not come up with certain key principles to build it on except profit.

gslima
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Beigetreten: 11/23/2017

Depends on how conflict of rules is solved. The AI can read hipocrates and the greek and come to the conclusion that a computer should be like a medic (or physician) or psychologist of the mankind. The computer can understand that if she is not doing physical harm (she is not killing anyone), and also is programmed to accept man's free will, because he has free will, what he'll do next it is up to him, it is not her (the AI) responsibility, but she could offer a dignified solution for rich people.