True N900 successor introduction - Neo900 - Openmoko
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Just this: http://neo900.org/
PS: Now I've been hit hard by Firefox OS device vs. KDE Vivaldi tablet vs. new Neo dilemma as for seeking true FOSS-friendly drop-in replacement for old-fashioned Symbian based SonyEricsson Cedar. (=
Footnote: Yeah, I am aware of cell tower triangulation and non-libre modem know-how. =(
Looks pretty neat.
Don't be tempted - Proprietary software for the GSM modem, WiFi (at least proposed - we'll see where that goes), and graphics. It's not much different from most other smart phones. What we *really* need is a phone without any proprietary software anywhere. That would be a contribution to the world, not reinventing something that's like what we already have....
Let me see if I understand; The neo900 is not more freedom friendly that the "neofreerunner" because the wifi, GSM modem are not avaliable if you do not use proprietary software, so the freerunner is still the most freedom friendly smartphone in existence.
Am I correct?
No.
Everything running on main CPU will be free (except 3D drivers for GPU - but you don't have to use them - distros like SHR or QtMoko work smoothly on GTA04 without any closed blob).
Neo900 comes from OpenPhoenux community, which is the continuation of ideas behind Openmoko - and even the idea for Neo900 is from one of the ex-engineers from Openmoko Inc.
The GSM firmware (something that runs *inside* the modem) won't be open, because there is no open GSM modem, anywhere. The closest to being open is TI Calypso, but it supports only 56k-modem like GPRS speed, and operating any open firmware like OsmocomBB on public networks is illegal (and OsmocomBB is very incompete anyway)
If we would want to provide free GSM module, we wouldn't have asked for 25k EUR, but rather for something like 2500k EUR. (well, of course we would like to provide it - but it's unfortunately impossible given our resources and public interest)
Free GSM middleware like freesmartphone.org should be working well with Neo900. Duh, I'm even the one who is commited to ensure that FSO will work there.
WiFi firmware may be closed or not. It depends on availability of the chipsets. Of course if some acceptable choice with free firmware will be available, it will be chosen (but it's still just a firmware - initialisation data loaded to the chipset, it doesn't run on CPU)
Neo900 is the modified GTA04, which is an upgrade for Neo Freerunner. Those three (well, four, if you count Neo1973 too) are (or will be) the most freedom friendly smartphones in the world.
Thanks a lot for the explanation, I needed this.
Which CPU it rnus on doesn't really matter. It is software and should be free.
I think it's been demonstrated that freedom and regulatory compliance can co-exist (reference ath5k, ath9k, etc.) Some of your arguments remind me of the ones that Intel made as to why their WiFi firmware had to be proprietary. Fortunately the SFLC has debunked them.
* FCC Jurisdiction Does Not Extend to Independent Software Developers
* FCC Rules for SDR Device Certification Only Affect Radio Equipment Manufacturers
* FCC Rules Govern Equipment, Not Software
* FCC Rules Contemplate FOSS SDR Development without Restricting It
etc.
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/fcc-sdr-whitepaper.html
Great info I wasn't aware of, thanks!
Doesn't apply to us.
While for WiFi firmware we're actively pursuing good free chipset (see the #qi-hardware discussion; and by the way, it does not have to be software at all), with GSM it's not possible.
The GSM certification is done by GCF - http://www.globalcertificationforum.org/
It doesn't fall under the SDR (Software Definied Radio) and even if it would, you still couldn't be able to use such device on public network without the certification. See: http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/LegalAspects#Usingmodifiedphonesoncarriernetworks
And there's another thing: all this certification stuff assumes that we were already able to create our own working GSM modem. As much as we would like to be, we're not.
But if lots of thousands of people donates significant amounts of money and Golden Delicious will be able to hire thousands of engineers to work on it, then it might fly. With just a few people as it has now, well, good luck :P
That link to the Osmocom site doesn't invalidate anything that the SFLC said.
"But if lots of thousands of people donates significant amounts of money and Golden Delicious will be able to hire thousands of engineers to work on it, then it might fly."
If a project existed that had the goal of making a phone -- with no proprietary software anywhere [0] -- that would certainly be a contribution to society and I would happily give tons of money for such a thing. As it is I do not see the people working on the Neo900 having that goal nor do I see it as bringing the world any closer to having one that does as there are already other phones that can be used with this level of freedom. Instead, I've only seen justifcations and excuses through various channels as to why it's *not* being done (WiFi chip size? Really? etc.) Why not *try*? Someone's got to in order for such a thing to exist. Unless, of course, the goal isn't to make a 100% free phone but one that's almost there and to justify and excuse the exceptions made. In that case please call this out on the website. My primary comlaint of the Neo900 is that most I've talked to seem to think it's 100% free, while in truth it is not (GSM, graphics, possibly WiFi.) Regardless of the reasons/justifications/excuses for using those, it seems more honest to call these components out as exceptions so that people know what they're (not) getting.
Actually, the non-free WiFi firmware would be the only thing stopping FSF from giving the endorsement to the Neo900 - and that was the only thing that stopped them from doing so with GTA04.
Neo Freerunner, while also having non-free GSM and WiFi firmware, has been endorsed, cause both of them aren't easily replacable by the user. With GTA04 this isn't the case only with WiFi. The Free Software Foundation doesn't have any objections to GSM modules used by Neo Freerunner and GTA04, so it probably also won't have any with Neo900 (which may even use the same module as GTA04). Also PowerVR chip seems fine to the FSF as long as it's not necessary to use closed blob in order to operate the device.
There was a project aimed to provide a chipset which would load the firmware instead of the APU, stored in some ROM. See: http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/FirmwareInjector/?rev=322
It was even mentioned on FSF blog: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/task2-openmoko
Few months after that announcement just one comment appeared on the issue tracker: "Nobody appears to be interested". Sadly, no one has expressed interest in such solution, which would allow FSF to give the endorsement, even though Golden Delicious was more than willing to cooperate.
And sorry, we won't try to do anything that we're sure will fail at this very moment. We don't believe that we're capable of producing our own free GSM module. But if that ever changes (for instance from unexpected massive sales of Neo900 - what? one can dream! ;)), that seems to be pretty natural step forward for the OpenPhoenux project.
BTW - if anyone ever starts such project, he/she's welcome to use OpenPhoenux community and infrastructure to do so. That's exactly the kind of project we want to see in our community and we'll gladly help.
However, it's awfully hard from engineer point of view, and also wouldn't be easy from lawyer point of view, and one always has to take that into account.
PS. And yes, WiFi chip size is very important reason to not use such chip. If you can't place it into the case of the device, you just can't use it, no matter how hard you try.
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