UEFI vs BIOS Open vs Closed?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFI
Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI, /ˈjuːɪfaɪ/ as an acronym)[c] is a specification for the firmware architecture of a computing platform. When a computer is powered on, the UEFI implementation is typically the first that runs, before starting the operating system. Examples include AMI Aptio, Phoenix SecureCore, TianoCore EDK II, and InsydeH2O.
UEFI replaces the BIOS that was present in the boot ROM of all personal computers that are IBM PC compatible,[5][6] although it can provide backwards compatibility with the BIOS using CSM booting. Unlike its predecessor, BIOS, which is a de facto standard originally created by IBM as proprietary software, UEFI is an open standard maintained by an industry consortium. Like BIOS, most UEFI implementations are proprietary.
Intel developed the original Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) specification. The last Intel version of EFI was 1.10 released in 2005. Subsequent versions have been developed as UEFI by the UEFI Forum.
UEFI is independent of platform and programming language, but C is used for the reference implementation TianoCore EDKII.
Hi world, I was wondering if anyone @Trisquel has any thoughts on the differences between UEFI and BIOS, I switch between them all the time actually, habitually reinstalling the GaL (GnuAlsoLinux) and reconfiguring it from the ground up for fun, and I enjoy the simplicity of bios configurations, and even find it to be faster than uefi based systems, but when I'm reading manuals about disk partioning, and file systems, they say that we should be using gpt partioning, and not msdos, and all the operating systems seem to be pushing us to use uefi. Also it seems that certain hardware features are only enabled by UEFI, specifically ones that improve performance are the ones I'm interested in. (does that apply to a UEFI system running a system in BIOS mode?)
Reading the wikipedia page's synopsis suggests that UEFI is an "open" technology, whereas BIOS is proprietary: "UEFI is an open standard maintained by an industry consortium. Like BIOS, most UEFI implementations are proprietary."
Then in very next sentence, the article relents, saying "Like BIOS, most UEFI implementations are proprietary."
It's important to understand newer PC's do not have a bios boot rom anymore, but have a uefi boot rom, with backwards compatibility through the csm extension. An extension PC's in the future, may lose entirely. It's also important to understand that even though this essential system is "ROM" memory, read only memory, does not make it secure alone, and these systems have explicit methods for updating or altering that memory, on top of the fact, they perform functionality the users cannot understand fully.
For me I think 1 kernel is enough of a pain to manage, without having to deal with another one, and that's what these mysterious systems represent to me.
"Although GPT is a part of the UEFI standard, it may also be usable by BIOS PCs to boot an operating system off of.[27][28]"
"Secure Boot
See also: Secure Boot criticism
Example of an active Secure Boot as detected by rEFInd boot manager
The UEFI specification defines a protocol known as Secure Boot, which can secure the boot process by preventing the loading of UEFI drivers or OS boot loaders that are not signed with an acceptable digital signature."
"UEFI shell
Example of a UEFI shell 2.2 session
UEFI provides a shell environment, which can be used to execute other UEFI applications, including UEFI boot loaders.[33] Apart from that, commands available in the UEFI shell can be used for obtaining various other information about the system or the firmware, including getting the memory map (memmap), modifying boot manager variables (bcfg), running partitioning programs (diskpart), loading UEFI drivers, and editing text files (edit).[62][unreliable source?][63][64] "
Commands
The following is a list of commands supported by the EFI shell.[63]
alias
attrib
bcfg
cd
cls
comp
cp
date
dblk
dh
dmpstore
echo
Edd30
EddDebug
edit
err
guid
help
load
ls
map
mem
memmap
mkdir
mm
mode
mount
pause
pci
reset
rm
set
stall
time
type
unload
ver
vol
ExtensionsExtensions to UEFI can be loaded from virtually any non-volatile storage device attached to the computer. For example, an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) can distribute systems with an EFI system partition on the hard drive, which would add additional functions to the standard UEFI firmware stored on the motherboard's ROM.
Classes
UEFI machines can have one of the following classes, which were used to help ease the transition to UEFI:[77]
Class 0: Legacy BIOS
Class 1: UEFI with a CSM interface and no external UEFI interface. The only UEFI interfaces are internal to the firmware.
Class 2: UEFI with CSM and external UEFI interfaces, eg. UEFI Boot.
Class 3: UEFI without a CSM interface and with an external UEFI interface.
Class 3+: UEFI class 3 that has Secure Boot enabled.[78]
Starting from the 10th Gen Intel Core, Intel no longer provides Legacy Video BIOS for the iGPU (Intel Graphics Technology). Legacy boot with those CPUs requires a Legacy Video BIOS, which can still be provided by a video card.[citation needed]
To be clear there is a difference between loading the operating system in either BIOS or UEFI mode...
Most of the newwer PC's I think must be using UEFI now... I don't know what date it started, but so loading
the operating system in BIOS mode is possible, as well as loading a system in BIOS mode but with a gpt partition table scheme for the hard disk, but it doesn't change the fact that we are using UEFI based PCs now, it must only alter what features are exposed by the UEFI to the operating system, which I have seen very rarely mentioned on the internet... different motherboard features are apparently exposed by UEFI enabled systems, like ones that consumers would be interested in, since they actually paid for those features. But I still like doing BIOS based systems with msdos tables actually, regardless, because they seem to run much cleaner and faster. I think the security threats exist in an echo chamber or something, without any alternate voices to the contrary. I like the simplicity, and speedup of essential and basic operations, as well as the ease of management. It's painful alternatively, to understand these NEW systems like UEFI, who's specifications read like a legal contract between us and secret organizations we can't possibly know, or understand...
Well Im sorry guys I don't know why my sentences, and spelling keeps changing on trisquel forums, or why the forum doesn't support editing of first posts, or quotes?
It's supposed to say (which I literally just typed)
"Unlike its predecessor, BIOS, which is a de facto standard originally created by IBM as proprietary software, UEFI is an open standard maintained by an industry consortium."
They suggest UEFI is open, and BIOS is proprietary(closed)...
Then, in the next sentence they say: "Like BIOS, most UEFI implementations are proprietary. "
They're both proprietary. What is it exactly we are supposed to understand about this situation? How are we, technical users, supposed to explain this to anyone else???
It suggests theyre taking away bios, and all computers are going to have UEFI only. Well I'm not "transitioning" from bios, and i'm not switching to "wayland" from xorg, I don't follow pressure from external organizations that have no responsibility to normal people's lives, and just broadcast messages to the world, about how all of our technology is going to be intractably altered, and we are powerless to do anything about it!
Ok here's some more weirdness today with UEFI/BIOS
I just made a USB disk with ventoy like this
msdos partition table, exfat partition
There is no uefi files or partition on the ventoy usb,
like there would be if I made it with gpt partioning,
I correctly synced some iso's on it, shutdown the computer,
and when it boot up, I entered the *UEFI* boot menu
this is important, usually I say "the bios" boot menu,
but that is wrong, it's no longer a bios boot menu,
now, it's a uefi boot menu... And when I entered the UEFI
boot menu, my new ventoy usb showed up, as a legacy bios
boot media, saying just the name of the usb, and usb
(no uefi option to boot it)
So I hit the enter key
then, it appeared to attempt to boot, but instead,
rushed quickly into the operating system(trisquel)
so I restarted the computer, THEN, my new ventoy usb
shows up in the boot menu, as UEFI capable,
as well as a a bios type device: like this
USB
(UEFI) USB
So now, the boot process is totally different, what happened?
Then I just tried to install an operating system, which apparently
has suddenly stopped working with msdos partition tables,
unlike it's previous version, so, I reloaded the ventoy usb with an
older version of that operating system, that I know from experience
is working, and rebooted again.
Then, the same usb, shows up in the bios boot menu, as only a usb,
and not a UEFI usb, which is what it's supposed to do.
And then, clicking enter, again
quickly rushes past the boot sequence to the underlying operating system,
which is the broken system I'm trying to replace, skipping the usb,
and booting up a linux system
So, I reboot the computer...
and again, at the *UEFI* boot menu, NOT the "bios" menu, because
we don't have bios anymore, the newer pc's all have uefi,
the msdos ventoy usb, shows up as
a USB
and a UEFI usb
which it's not supposed to do, at all.
There are no efi files on the usb, it's a legacy msdos type device now.
What the hell is happening with UEFI???
I need my computer, to follow my instructions, and to behave in the manner
I instruct it, and predictably, but instead we get this NEW behavior in different scenarios
routinely as the systems naturally change with time.
Meanwhile I'm reminded by calamares that "A GPT partition table is the best
option for all systems. This installer supports such a setup for BIOS systems too."
No I don't think so calamares! I'm not buying it!
That reminds me, it's time to reinstall my FIRMWARE
and lxde auto mounts USB drives, unless you manually turn it off in the file manager,
this behavior needs to stop. Auto mounting devices, and auto-loading operating systems,
and firmware drivers, what the hell is going on, no one knows what theyre talking about,
and all this stuff is going on behind the scenes
Now I'ved installed a new linux
Now I downgraded my uefi firmware (NOT bios) which is provided by a completely different
manufacturer, than the later version of my uefi firmware I was just using, and
after properly installing a NEW linux distribution, and properly flashing a NEW
uefi firmware rom, I activate the csm compatibility module to see my new msdos
file system, select from the boot menu to boot into it, and the computer forceably
restarts, and boots up the grub menu...
what the hell is going on. that's not the uefi, I just changed it, to a completely,
different manufacturer. Now I think I should change operating systems again, and get
to witness, completely new behavior in mere moments...
edit1
This bad behavior is not tolerated on my computer. When I edit my UEFI settings,
or even just open them up...
there is no option to shut down the computer, instead I am FORCED to restart.
No more. Now if I edit UEFI, I'm shutting down the computer, and power cycling,
Learn to power cycle your computer, turn off the power switch, and hold down the power button
to drain the volatile memory cells, then wait, for my PC, it has two distinct clicks, listen,
after 30 seconds there is loud click, as the power flushes out, then 30 seconds later, a softer click,
the power cycle is complete.
No more "restarting" and auto loading allowed. No more disobedient operating systems.
Now I'm restarting from the ground up, until this bad behavior disappears completely.
usb(3.0)-> msdos -> fat32 -> dd if=new_linux_iso of=/new_usb_format
new linux until the ghosts are gone
edit2
Ok, dd completed, and a sync, then no more restarts, only POWER DOWN, and while im powering down,
(shutting down the computer) the usb data transmission light, is still blinking while the computer
is off. so I completely shut down, run a power cycle, and boot up, enter the UEFI boot menu,
with 1 usb plugged in: and guess what: IVE GOT THREE USB'S IN ONE, on my boot menu
like this...
USB
UEFI USB
UEFI USB (partition 2)
So I said NO MORE! No more ghosts! and I shutdown the computer again, power cycled again,
started up the computer again, entered the boot menu again, and now the boot menu shows
USB
UEFI USB
the ghost is gone. but now I need a new linux, that shouldn't be happening in the first place,
usb(3.0)-> msdos -> fat32 -> dd if=new_linux_iso of=/new_usb_format
it's writing to the usb after shutdown
new rule: don't shutdown with USB's plugged in. SYNC->UNPLUG->POWER DOWN
new linux again, start over.
so apparently after several hours of remaking usb's, unplugging devices, and power cycling, it's completely
random whether or not, my usb's with linux installed on them (mainly with dd) (a few times with ventoy) are recognized as one of three different options..
OPTION 1
USB
OPTION 2
USB
UEFI USB
OPTION 3
USB
UEFI USB
UEFI USB (partition 2)
the disks themselves, all have uefi files on them, but, every single time I made a usb I used msdos partitioning, which typically is recognized as OPTION 1, just a usb.
I have no idea why they are recognized differently, seemingly, under random conditions. I also have no idea why different linux systems each behave so differently, 1 version and you can install, and unplug your usb no problem, the next version upgrade, you install, and unplugging the usb breaks the entire operating system, then we have linux systems, that are writing to the usb, literally, after the entire computer, has already shut down.
These are all totally unacceptable outcomes to me...
Can't explain them, except to say that this is all innappropriate behavior, typical of cryptic-secretive linux, Mr. Open source. And we shouldn't accept it... upgrading my system, to the next version on a linux OS, means that after the install is finished unplugging the usb suddenly breaks the live environment? where in the last version it didn't? What else has changed in regards to USB device handling I'm not aware of? Why does restarting the computer change usb device behavior compared to, shutting it down completely, or shutting it down and then turning it off? What the hell is happening? Which linux OS is writing to USB drives, after the system is shut down? Why do our systems behave randomly?
it might actually be, the most important subject matter in linux... usb device handling, because that's what we do, to actually install linux at all
What happens if I plug my USB into a trisquel computer?
What happens if I plug my usb into a debian or arch linux or fedora?
I literally have installed linux 1000 times. There should be predictable behavior here, over and over again, not random behavior I have never seen before.
and if we just upgraded to uefi, like the whole world is pressuring us to, this whole secret subsystem of booting, rebooting, and flashing(the other rebooting), between your devices and your motherboard, would be totally transparent. you would have no idea, there was something in the whole wide world, to care about, at all,
Wow!!! Most of what you wrote flies over my current tech knowledge, but I got the gist!
Wishing you good luck on your explorations!
No I have no idea what I'm doing just like most other computer users, but it's really funny if you are using a computer, and keep a log of everything that you experience, because trying to remember all these little details is impossible : D
The purpose of this post, was to open a discussion about the UEFI firmware that is standard on most PC's today, compared to the former BIOS system, which was much simpler.
But then, after I made the post, I started noticing all this weird behavior suddenly surrounding my own UEFI system... and so I started keeping a log of things it was so ridiculous
The entire wall of text is summarized here, where I said this:
"What the hell is happening with UEFI???"