An Introduction, and a few questions
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I am pleased to be here, and happy to meet you all. Please understand that I am somewhat new to GNU/Linux, and having tried several distros, few working for me, and many failing, I have landed on Trisquel, and with a few questions. If these questions have been addressed elsewhere, please forgive me and point me in the right direction.
First of all: My stats,
-Computer: HP Pavilion dv6-
Processor : 4x AMD A8-4500M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
Memory : 15822MB (1203MB used)
Operating System : Trisquel GNU/Linux 7.0, Belenos
-Display-
OpenGL Renderer : Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 3.4, 128 bits)
X11 Vendor : The X.Org Foundation
-Multimedia-
Audio Adapter : HDA-Intel - HDA ATI HDMI
Audio Adapter : HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic
Second: a few questions,
1. When I play video my laptop runs very hot and turns itself off, this hasen't happened with any other OS whatsoever.
2. Can anyone suggest a music player that has the ability to be deactivated when no longer in use, and can someone please explain to me why it is that Trisquel (an OS based upon freedom) denies the user the ability to control basic media programs? Why on Earth would I be denied the ability to turn this "Rythembox" off? It just stays in the system tray forever?
3. Freedom... Codecs... I understand that Trisquel, and the overal GNU/Linux community wants everything to be in OGG format, and I have a basic understanding as to why that is, though I welcome more information. My question is this; What is one to do when they have several hdd's worth of music and film, most of which is in either mp4, mp3, or avi, from years of Window$ background. Honestly it would take months of time to covert all of my media to free formats, and cost quite a bit to purchase new drives for Linux formatting and OGG files. At the very least I would need a couple of TB in order to how the converted files until I had emptied one drive for reformatting.
4. Im a bit confused about exFUSE, rather, I understand how it works and what it does, however, I am not sure if using FUSE so that Windows formatted flashdrives and harddrives work (fat32 or ntfs I think?) but is that not the same as using VLC and non-free codecs to play mp3 and mp4 on linux?
Please forgive my ignorance, but this had been quite the crash course for me over the past several weeks. Thanks in advance for any information and guidance.
Hey! It would be cool if you posted your stats on https://h-node.org/ :)
I am a translator!
>Hey! It would be cool if you posted your stats on https://h-node.org/ :)
Why? His hardware is crap (freedom wise).
H-node is not just about hardware that works, but also about those which don't.
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>H-node is not just about hardware that works, but also about those which don't.
That doesn't make sense.
It does. Anyone searching the hardware in question on h-node would know "it is crap" (your words). If it is not on h-node, she will remain clueless and may end up buying it.
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Banana Magique: It doesn't make sense to place laptops with ATI gpus on h-node. It's a waste of space and time: we know none of them works, if they have an ATI gpu they don't work.
I am a translator!
Well, Banana mate, then I guess it would be enough to write on the H-NODE website something like this in clear big characters:
In order to avoid losing time and space let us make it clear: NO LAPTOP WITH AN ATI GPU WORKS PROPERLY WITH FREE SOFTWARE.
There, I fixed it. :)
I agree! :D
- AMD video cards have free drivers that are, technically, terrible. You can try to update the kernel ( https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/update-linux-libre-kernel ) but do not hold your breath. Next time, choose an Intel processor with an integrated graphical chipset.
- "Quit" Rhythmbox from the menu.
- Trisquel comes by default with free software codecs for all those formats.
- FUSE is free software too.
Patents and copyrights are two different problems. On the copyright side, Trisquel only ships and proposes free software. When it comes to software patents, they are illegal in most of the world (in the European Union, in China, India, Russia, Brazil, South Africa, New Zealand, etc.). In countries where they are legal, they can create problems to any piece of software: almost any "ideas", even trivial, can be (and is) patented!
There are however patents that are more actively enforced. Such as those on sound and video codecs. That is why it is risky to use those formats: the free software to read/write them may become illegal and, then, the user who refuses proprietary software would be stuck. As long as she can use free software to read/write those formats, she is free. Patents only are a risk. Small for an individual. Much larger for anybody with a business that uses the patent-encumbered formats.
>Next time, choose an Intel processor with an integrated graphical chipset.
Can I assume that you mean the "next time" I buy a computer?
>"Quit" Rhythmbox from the menu.
Could you explain which menu you imply? I don't have a "Quit" option whatsoever. I only have "Close" and that does nothing but minimize to the system tray. It does not terminate the program.
I think it's right click on the icon in the notification area. You'll see an option 'quit'. If this is confusing, stop music first and then close the window. If music is being played and you try to close the window, it will hide its GUI but still keeps playing.
*EDIT*
There's no 'quit' option. It's because in Ubuntu and its derivatives, music player controls are integrated into the sound applet. You should not worry about this. Even if you use another player, the controls will likely be there. I checked System Monitor and it (Rhythmbox) does not use any resources.
Yes: next time you buy a computer.
I use GNOME Shell and Rhythmbox actually has a menu (at the right of GNOME Shell's "Activities" button). With a "Quit" entry that really really quits Rhythmbox. I do not know how to access that menu from the default desktop environment.
To expand on the heating thing: I would tend to assume that this is caused by your CPU getting additional stress due to lack of hardware acceleration, and producing more heat as a result. So while your computer's diminished cooling function (could be caused by accumulation of dust over the years, for example, or could just be caused by a design flaw) did not cause problems on systems shipping the blobs needed for hardware acceleration, it is causing problems on Trisquel.
Properly, the solution is to fix your cooling system so the computer does not overheat. If it's a laptop, the easiest fix is to just supplement the cooling system with a laptop cooler (you can get them from an electronics store for around $30 easily). If it's a desktop computer, you may have to actually fix the cooling system.
> can someone please explain to me why it is that Trisquel (an OS based upon freedom) denies the user the ability to control basic media programs?
Magic Banana already pointed out that you can close Rhythmbox, but even if you couldn't, this would not be an infringement of your liberty. You can change the source code in any way you want and compile your modified version.
Also, it sometimes can be reasonable to have such a design (although Rhythmbox isn't an example of a program designed in this way, as has been mentioned). Consider, for example, the case of desktop environments. GNOME at least does not provide an obvious way to completely stop using GNOME Shell (while running in the normal mode) or GNOME Panel (while running in the Flashback mode, Trisquel's default). The reason it doesn't offer such an obvious option is because the whole design of GNOME depends on one of these programs running. Adding an option to close GNOME Shell or GNOME Panel would only be asking for trouble.
>Can anyone suggest a music player that has the ability to be deactivated when no longer in use...<
Rhythmbox hides its GUI and stays resident in the notification area when minimized to get out of the way when playing music. To exit, you should press quit or stop music and then close the window. If you find this behaviour confusing, you can install Audacious, a Winamp clone for GNU/LInux. It will just exit if you click on the x button of the window title bar.
sudo apt-get install audacious
Here's a method to disable the sound applet media player controls integration. It involves the use of Dconf Editor. I hope it helps.
http://www.howtogeek.com/113897/how-to-remove-media-players-from-ubuntus-sound-menu-add-your-own/
Launch Dconf Editor
dconf-editor
Navigate to com/canonical/indicator/sound
and blacklist Rhythmbox.
Thank you very much for the information, however, I have uninstalled Rythmbox and installed another player as you suggested. To beat everything, I seem to also have the troube of lingering programs that remain in my systems tray even if the program has been uninstalled. I just cant seem to get my head around this issue of GNU/Linux systems trying to "hold on" to everything even if you close or uninstall it. Either way, this deals a death blow to the myth that Linux systems never have to be restarted or rebooted, because you have to at least log off, if not restart, before deactivated or uninstalled programs actually go away. Is this normal, or have I fouled something up?
>...why it is that Trisquel (an OS based upon freedom) denies the user the ability to control basic media programs?<
Dont' equate your freedoms with the freedoms of the developers. You're free to uninstall the 'offending' program, write a patch or whatever it takes to run the program the way you wish. The source code is there for you to modify. A thing you can't usually do in non-free environments.
>...a death blow to the myth that Linux systems never have to be restarted or rebooted...<
I see, this is why you bothered registering here to make a big fuss of FUD. Please don't do this. There's no myth that needs debunking.
You're not sincere and I doubt we can help you here.
I think you are taking this far too personally. If you have no desire to take part in this thread, do feel free to move on to another. I'm not certain what "FUD" is, though I can assure you that I joined this forum in order to express my difficulties with Trisquel, and hopefully to overcome them.
To be completely honest, I find it to be a bit of joke that anyone can depend on the Linux community. I have been on Microsoft programing for more than fifteen years, throughout grade school, college, and work life. As an adult I have come to value my freedom and privacy, thus I am attempting to make the change, not only to Linux, but to completely free GNU/Linux systems. I have observes the teachings and lectures of Richard Stallman, and I agree with the elements that I fully understand. That being said, each and every time I have asked the "community" for assistance, I have be called a troll, accuse of trying to "do this", or expected to be a master programer or code writer on my first day...
Well I'm not a seasoned Linux user, Im not able to read or write code, and Im sick to deat of this attitude everywhere I go on Linux forums. How is anyone with a Windows background supposed to ever learn Linux if you are told that you are not sincere simply because you didnt show up an expert?
>each and every time I have asked the "community" for assistance, I have be called a troll...<
You said that and I did give you assistance until you showed your true intentions.
Now, go wherever you wish, keep rebooting your Windows box or whatever it takes to make you feel good.
Look Mr. or Miss "Loldier, I have no idea what exactly you believe my 'intentions' to be, but the nature this conversation simply does not suit my desired interaction on this forum. I have not come here to engage in accusation or petty bickering. If you cannot interact with me without making it a personal issue, simply do not interact with me. Thank you and good day.
You have to narrow down your issues so they can be answered. There's nobody here who can take responsibility for allegations that run rampant out there. There's no myth about rebooting. It's done when needed -- usually kernel updates.
I'm quite happy to address any real issues you might have.
Hi :) freedom.seeker
Unfortanetly forums and written words are not heard, so sometimes conversations fail, even when people means the best.
Let me tell you I know what it is like to have difficulties with gnu/linux, I am a lawyer and I have no friends on Computer Science, so it was really hard for me at the beggining.
With that said, I see many people have helped you and I think most of your listed problems should be solved by now, is there anything else you need help with?
There is also a few things, that I, respectfully want to explain:
1.- Lack of features doesn't mean lack of freedom, sometimes a progam can 'lack' certain features you expect, like in the case of rythimbox, that doesn't mean the program isn't free, beacause you have the power to download the source code, change the things that you don't like and make it better. And even make copies of your modified version and share it with us all :)
2.- Linux doesn't need to reboot: well, yes and no, it means that you can run a linux machine for days and days and it won't need to reboot, that is really unlikely on windows. But sometimes some changes or upgrades will ask you to reboot, that doesn't mean you "have" to reboot.
Imagine that you install a new kernel, just becasue you installed it, it won't be running, you are already using the old one, and the kernel is loaded at the boot, so you have to restart in order for it to start, it can't be started when you are already on your Trisquel session.
3.- Not Trisquel, (and I am pretty sure not any other OS), is perfect. Yes, I know somethings seem "easier" on other OS's but thats beacuase those OS's want to control your computer, as I think you already know. After you learn a little bit more the things will be really easier, don't get frustraded yet.
As I say I am here to help if there is any trouble you have you can ask me, but Trisquel is a really nice, friendly and helpful community and I know anyone else is here to help you :)
>After you learn a little bit more the things will be really easier, don't get frustraded yet.
Oh I have been frustrated, lol. I attempted several other distros before Trisquel. There was always some issue. Wierless would not work, no mouse, or some such. I'm alright though. Sometimes you have to get mad and take something on before you get a handle on it. Like I said before, its like learning a new language, so it may be a bumpy ride, but Im not giving up.
>As I say I am here to help if there is any trouble you have you can ask me,
Thank you very much, I may call on you from time to time.
Thanks for the comment Albertoefg, I believe that you are correct. I am new to all of this and its a bit like learning a new language. Every time I get a handle on one thing, three others will baffle me. I am determined to leave Windows and Mac behind and focus on GNU/Linux only. To quote Stallman, I want to align my computing and my ethics. Im really very sorry if I have expressed a poor attitude on my introductry thread. I am pleased to meet you.
Don't worry, there is also the problem that sometimes there are a lot of trolls that come to the forums and sometimes we are not sure if we're facing a troll or a someone that want's real help.
But I want to know if you have any more doubts or problems that I can help you with so you have an easier experience :)
When you execute a program, most (if not all) of it is copied to main memory (in RAM). When you remove a program, you erase it from disk. Not from RAM. If you cannot cleanly terminate a program, you can use the "GNOME System Monitor" (in the "System Settings") to terminate or even kill its process.
From what I can tell, the OP could be Matthew Moore or a person of his ilk.
Is there an Admin who could sort this out? I have no interest in Youtube, I have no idea who this Matthew persona is, and I am certainly doen with this "Loldier" persons accusations. If an Admin will contact me through my email I will provide my personal information. This is becoming childish. Please stop.
You should watch the video. It deals with the myths you've raised.
---viruses in GNU/Linux (Windows exe)
---rebooting when an uninstalled program stays in RAM
---taking out an HDD and plugging it in another computer fails if secure boot is enabled
It's entertaining but not the obvious way.
Are you seriously considering that we should debunk the debunkers and give them air time?
I said the word 'myth' and you have fabracated the rest of this and turned it into personal accusations and suggesting that I am someone other than who I am. It is my opinion, as you have asked, that these issues, if indeed they are issues, can and ought to be addressed without the links and names. The Matt guy seems to have backed up his claims pretty well, not that that have much to do with my OP outside of programs residing in my RAM, as another pointed out, however, it does prove the Matt guy correct that Linux must be restarted in order to actually get rid of a program. Im stll not certain why this bothers you so bad, or why you have fixed your attention on me and my post?
That's an introduction to the link. Don't take it personally. Frankly, I'm quite positive that you've seen the video.
Admin?
Here's what you've written on your account page when you registered yesterday.
"Why is an OS/Forum like Trisquel, which is all about seeking freedom, asking me for my personal information such as First Name, Last Name, Street Address, City, Postal Code, Country, and State?
Yes, that is what I wrote on my account page, and that was approved by the admin, likely because it is a valid question. I'm not at all certain what the contents of my account page has to do with my post on this thread. Id still like for a forum admin to evauate this conversation, and your strange obsession with me. Ill ask you again, to please leave me alone, or at leaste stay on topic.
>...and your strange obsession with me.<
An obsession takes a long time to develop and to become an obsession in the first place. Your account is one day and a few hours old.
Why start on a wrong leg here? Being disruptive is not a good way to build a reputation. You've raised some questions, you've been given answers. You'll have to gain the community's trust before you can turn it upside down.
Well, there is no more doubt. You're crazy.
Could you please leave me alone? Seriously.
Have your issues been solved? Or, you still have problems with them.
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OP: Sell your laptop and for the money you get out of it buy a laptop with an integrated intel GPU older than skylake.
All ati cards require proprietary firmware for video acceleration meaning that in Trisquel your laptop will run at 20% of its potential performance, give or take. Your laptop gets hot and shuts down because the CPU is doing all the work and it gets stressed out even for a simple task as watching a 720p video. There are no other (libre) solutions OP, trust me, I've been there.
@ SalmanMohammadi - I have come to the point that I feel that asking question here on this forum would only result in more trolling and accusations from that cat person "loldier" or whatever. I do have more questions, though if I am trolled when asking them, Ill just leave. This thread rapidly became nonsense and ad hom. Obviously there are no admin watching these threads, or if there are, they don't put trolls in check?
@ SuperTramp83 - I was afraid that you would say that. I was hoping to modify the ones that I have, rather than have to buy all new PCs. I do seek a wholly free system, but if at the end of the day I cannot get my PC to work with Trisquel, and I cannot buy another, what are the drawbacks of looking for the original drivers, and is that even an option while using Trisquel? What I want and what I have are two different things. What would happen if I got the non-free driver? Would that solve my overheating issue and bring me from 20% to 100%?
@ CalmStorm - Thank you for your kind words. I hope that we can get past the troll and childish post. What is your opinion of my question to SuperTramp83?
We all are the admins of this forum because we all can click the "-" and "+" buttons at the bottom of each post. The "-" button does *not* mean "I disagree". It rather mean: this post does not respect our "Community Guidelines": https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/trisquel-community-guidelines
And the "+" button is often use to correct an injustice a user made by clicking the "-" button because she simply disagrees. Because, once the post reaches "-3", it is hidden from the thread. loldier's posts are close to be hidden (because of the clause "avoid flaming, flame-baiting, and trolling" in the community guidelines I assume).
Have you actually tried updating your kernel, as I suggested half an hour after your opened this thread? Again, see https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/update-linux-libre-kernel to do so. The free drivers are in the Linux-libre kernel. Nothing technically prevents you from installing a non-free driver. But that would be surrendering the control of your computing to AMD. And you would not receive instructions from this forum. That would not be "helping" to assist you in giving up your freedoms.
>Have you actually tried updating your kernel, as I suggested half an hour after your opened this thread? Again, see https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/update-linux-libre-kernel to do so...
Yes, I did that last night. I clicked on the link you offered and I followed the instructions. It did its thing and said that I needed to reboot, and asked if I wanted to restart now, so I clicked yes. It rebooted and when I got back to my desktop... I had no wifi card any more, I couldn't connect\mount any external HDDs or Flash drives, and basically nothing would work... I was not at all happy with your suggestion. I have just now had time to reinstall Trisquel from the ground up, and do all of the updates, again, and set up my browser with all my addons, again...
Its just my luck that when I start attempting to be "free" it would turn out that I own THE WORST PC ON EARTH. Sure, the GNU\Linux OS can be downloaded for free, but no one tells you that you will end up paying $500 to $1,000 obtaining a PC that will actually run it well, in terms of actually achieving the full freedom and privacy possible. I do not mean to be rude, but this is stressing me out.
I have just now had time to reinstall Trisquel from the ground up, and do all of the updates, again, and set up my browser with all my addons, again...
No you have not. You only have to remove the latest kernel (about three clicks in the Synaptics package manager) and reboot. The previous kernel will be used.
And you can try other versions of Linux-libre as easily (Trisquel's repository has versions 3.13, 3.16, 3.19 and 4.2; Jxself's repository has versions 3.4, 3.14, 4.1 and 4.5).
What questions do you have?
What problems have you faced??
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> do seek a wholly free system, but if at the end of the day I cannot get my PC to work with Trisquel, and I cannot buy another, what are the drawbacks of looking for the original drivers, and is that even an option while using Trisquel? What I want and what I have are two different things. What would happen if I got the non-free driver? Would that solve my overheating issue and bring me from 20% to 100%?
Well, you seem to mistake a driver with the firmware. Those are different things. See, there is a libre driver for the ATI gpus and you have it already installed on your Triskell installation. What you miss is the non-free firmware in the kernel.
I gave you the solution but I can also give you a non solution becuase it would not solve anything, at least in my view, being that proprietary software is not a solution but **the** problem.
Anyway, if you really want to go that way (and that is up to you - nobody here will shoot you for doing so X_X) what you may do is install Debian, temporarily add the non-free repo and install the package firmware-linux-nonfree and then remove the non-free repo from sources.list in /etc/apt.
That way you would have a system that contains **only** the proprietary firmware for your GPU and everything else would be libre (Debian is as libre as Trisquel by default - that is if you don't manually add the nonfree and the contrib repos and install software from those).
Mind that I don't **recommend** you to do this, I just point out that you **can do it if you decide to do it**.
P.S: don't mind the trolls. Ignore them. I'm not very good at ignoring douchebags but I hope you are better at it than myself.
First of all, let me thank you for your time and information, SuperTramp83. I am very grateful for your attention.
>Anyway, if you really want to go that way (and that is up to you - nobody here will shoot you for doing so X_X) what you may do is install Debian, temporarily add the non-free repo and install the package firmware-linux-nonfree and then remove the non-free repo from sources.list in /etc/apt. That way you would have a system that contains **only** the proprietary firmware for your GPU and everything else would be libre (Debian is as libre as Trisquel by default - that is if you don't manually add the nonfree and the contrib repos and install software from those). Mind that I don't **recommend** you to do this, I just point out that you **can do it if you decide to do it**.
So basically if I want my computer to function at its full potential, I need to go the Debian way, and obtain my needed proprietary firmware. I can understand why you would not recommend that approach, but to be honest, I am tempted.
Let me ask you this; I fully understand the ethical issue with using proprietary firmware, however, I am not certain if the use of proprietary firmware will break my security. I would assume that using Debian with my computers needed proprietary firmware would still be much better than the old Windows setup that I am coming from? No? Other than the ethical issue, what personal computing issues would I have using the proprietary firmware with Debian?
> install Debian, temporarily add the non-free repo and ...
Super Tramp, your post is against the forum rules. I think telling him was right. You cannot ask people to get another computer. Is it against the rules if you email such posts to a forum member?
I am a translator!
>Mind that I don't **recommend** you to do this, I just point out that you **can do it if you decide to do it**.
>I gave you the solution but I can also give you a non solution becuase it would not solve anything, at least in my view, being that proprietary software is not a solution but **the** problem.
I think I was sufficiently politically correct, tonlee..
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