Aramo ISO Beta 4 (Dic 24 2022)
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Hello guys,
Well, and we have now a Beta 4 arriving in time for the holidays,
The main changes from Beta 3 ISO,
- debian-installer
- finally, the console l10n/kb layout issue has been fixed.
- lvm setup issue on non encrypted disk, also has been fixed.
- switched back from artica-greeter to lightdm-gtk-greeter
- added small customization to budgie meta package and environment.
- added small customization to kylin environment.
- New Aramo artwork! \o/
- Multi arch installer support for arm/ppc64el WIP.
Known issues,
-
non-blocking: upstream ifupdown output issue
Find the latest BETA images at:
http://cdbuilds.trisquel.org/aramo/
All the feedback is welcome, current and new issues will be followed/tracked at the Trisquel's GitLab instance, please ask for your account at the devel mailing list or the #trisquel-dev channel.
Thank you all for all your previous feedback to all early testers and the community in general.
Have a great holiday season!
Cheers!
Aramo rocks. This totally feels like using a release version.
What a great gift! This would solve both issues I found earlier. I am going to re-install on my Alder Lake laptop and on a Dell R630 server now. Could you publish SHA256 checksums for the netinst image too? OpenPGP signatures would also be great! I have Talos II Lite machine waiting for the ppc64el images, happy to test them when they become available! What arm-boards will be supported?
Update: trisquel_11.0_amd64.iso beta4 and trisquel-netinst_11.0-20221223_amd64.iso on PV41NZ laptop (Intel 1260P CPU and AR9462 WiFi): No release blocker, everything works fine! I completed graphical and text installations from LiveDVD, and text install from netinst, all via builtin WiFi. Didn't try LVM, but both btrfs and ext4. Keyboard layout works in tty. Minor things: 1) Selecting 'Check disk for defects' on LiveDVD starts a graphical Trisquel but nothing happens. If I look in the syslog, casper-md5check (md5?) has run and said OK but I wouldn't expect most people to look in the syslog for results? 2) During graphic manual partitioning, if there is a swap partition defined, the installer always appears to want to re-format it even though the checkbox for Format? is not checked. Text mode install does not seem to have a Format-button, and also always re-format swap partition. I have other operating systems on this machine (or had... before I mistakenly wiped out my Guix installation, ouch) that mount the swap partition using UUID and I prefer to not re-format the swap partition. Could be an upstream Ubuntu bug, not worthy of fixing in Trisquel. 3) Large part of the installation is removing language packages, but after first boot the abrowser-locale-*, hyphen-*, ice-dove-locale-*, libreoffice-l10n-*, mythes-* packages are still present. Is this intentional? It seems to remove the gimp-help-*, hunspell-*, language-pack-* language sets. This doesn't really matter much, consistency with Ubuntu is more important so this may considered to be an upstream problem, and doing anything Trisquel-specific also doesn't seem necessary.
Minor things:
1) Selecting 'Check disk for defects' on LiveDVD starts a graphical Trisquel but nothing happens. If I look in the syslog, casper-md5check (md5?) has run and said OK but I wouldn't expect most people to look in the syslog for results?
Well, since it runs as service it will very likely show on syslog, but actually the "right" place to look at is: /run/casper-md5check.json
Maybe we can add this to the wiki for reference in case it's not there, as for casper-md5check it works as an integrity test, as a standard security mesure any iso file should be checked right after it gets downloaded against secure hash sums before boot it up.
2) During graphic manual partitioning, if there is a swap partition defined, the installer always appears to want to re-format it even though the checkbox for Format? is not checked.
I've seen that the default behavior is to always format the swap partition, could it be a bug that the checkbox still exists?, looking it up, seems this has been an issue for quite some time in ubuntu (and others).
Text mode install does not seem to have a Format-button, and also always re-format swap partition. [...] Could be an upstream Ubuntu bug, not worthy of fixing in Trisquel.
Nope, Ubuntu dropped the debian-installer, they no longer package it or maintain it, if anything we might like to know the reasons why Debian removed that option (bug or feature), which seems to be followed by ubiquity, since we now use Debian as upstream for this and many other packages related to it.
3) Large part of the installation is removing language packages, but after first boot the abrowser-locale-*, hyphen-*, ice-dove-locale-*, libreoffice-l10n-*, mythes-* packages are still present. Is this intentional? It seems to remove the gimp-help-*, hunspell-*, language-pack-* language sets. This doesn't really matter much, consistency with Ubuntu is more important so this may considered to be an upstream problem, and doing anything Trisquel-specific also doesn't seem necessary.
Hmmm, yeah this is a low priority issue, but it could be worth to open an issue so this could be reviewed at some point.
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Hello, there is one problem I had with an earlier Aramo beta. I installed trisquel-mini via the net installer and log in to my "Trisquel-mini" desktop which should be LXDE. That is working without a problem. But if I double click the personal folder on my desktop a window appears that says:"Operation not supported". I checked the file /home/knife/Desktop/home.desktop and there is this line:URL=file:$HOMEI changed that line to URL=file:/home/knife and now a double click on my home folder on the desktop brings to /home/knife as expected. For testing I typed echo $HOME in a terminal, and that works, too. It gives me "/home/knife".
Maybe this can be fixed til the official release
Other Icons on the desktop are working as expected.
Please help us by opening bugs on the GitLab instance, so they get the proper follow up.
Regards
Hello, I just tried a trisquel-mini netinstall of aramo and I can't reproduce the error.
How did you got a /home/knife/Desktop/home.desktop shortcut file?
There is a shortcut provided by trisquel-desktop-common-data: /usr/share/applications/home.desktop but that has no "URL=" value on it, I only was able to show the Documents folder and the Trash icon.
If you can share more details, I'll be glad to double check.
Regards.
I was reading through the various conversations about 32-bit support and it seems like there will be no 32-bit x86 support for Trisquel 11, right?
Indeed, such project requires a bigger developer team and community in general to support it.
There is indeed no mention of x86_32 on https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/aramo. It says "x86_64, ARM32, ARM64 and PowerPC architectural support", which is a great feat and, equally importantly, offers a great deal of hope for the future.
I would probably turn to gnuinos for 32-bit computing purposes after Trisquel 9 reaches EOS in March 2023.
Good Morning all.
I just installed the Alpha 4... no real issues at this point, I will make note of any glitches and report back.
Question: do you expect this will evolve and not require a reinstall after the Beta?
no big deal, just planning ahead
Peter
At this point I see it very hard to be the case.
Any further changes should arrive via updates but I would wait an RC to feel even "safer", still we are not very far away from it.
Have a happy GNU Year 2023.
Read you there.
thanks!
happy GNU Year
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Happy GNU year to everyone,
On my machine with Aramo and LXDE installed scrot has to be installed to make screenshots. So I think scrot is missing in default Trisquel-mini install.
sudo apt install scrot
Will look into that, thanks.
And a happy GNU Year 2023.
Thank you, this will also make beta testing reporting easier.
Just a usability note in passing: the current Trisquel Mini 11 ISO does not ship with obconf by default, so some options cannot be set through GUI. These settings are missing in the LXAppearance tool, even with the lxappearance-obconf plugin installed. Changing the number of virtual desktops in Trisquel Mini is currently a matter of editing a hidden rc.xml file, unless one does:
sudo apt install obconf
EDIT: it is in fact also possible to add or remove virtual desktops through the Openbox menu. For a right-click on the desktop to display that menu, one needs to check the corresponding option in Desktop Preferences > Advanced. But that menu has a "Window Management Settings" entry that yearns for obconf :
https://gitlab.trisquel.org/trisquel/trisquel-packages/-/blob/master/11.0/trisquel-mini-data/usr/share/trisquel-mini/openbox/menu.xml
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I don't have an LXDE environment to check that now (still haven't got my t400 back from repair) but I recall that the number of virtual desktops is not the only thing that is configurable through GUI in MATE but not in LXDE without obconf. So I agree that obconf should be installed by default with Trisquel mini.
Just a usability note in passing: the current Trisquel Mini 11 ISO does not ship with obconf by default,...
Will land soon.
Cheers!
In the name of all the Mini people: thank you!
Hello all,
After downloaded Triskel (KDE) Aramo i got these images. Can't past this. Eternal loop?
After waiting something like 10 minutes the image of trisquel logo continues to the black one.
My system:
Sistema Operativo: Debian GNU/Linux 11
Versão do Plasma do KDE: 5.20.5
Versão das Plataformas do KDE: 5.78.0
Versão do Qt: 5.15.2
Versão do 'Kernel': 5.10.0-20-amd64
Tipo de SO: 64-bits
Processadores: 4 × Intel® Core™ i5-4690K CPU @ 3.50GHz
Memória: 15,6 GiB de RAM
Processador Gráfico: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2
Seems the ISO must be a bit more polished and booting properly.
That looks like you choice bad your hardware, sadly you buy hardware that can't work with free software. So, as Trisquel don't distribute nonfree software the distro never go to start.
As you say you use Debian, Debian as a non-free distro recommend, and distribute nonfree programs, that make it unacceptable for the freedom to have the control of your computing.
You have experience running Trisquel or other free distro (https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html) with the same machine?
Nouveau, which reports the error, is the (free, of course) driver for nVidia's cards. Using the GPU built in your Intel processor instead of the nVidia card should solve the problem. Otherwise, try adding Linux's nomodeset option, and maybe xforcevesa too. I guess the instructions on https://askubuntu.com/tags/nomodeset/info apply to Trisquel too.
Hey guys,
Thanks for the fast reply.
On the advice of iShareFreedom i tried:
1- PUREOS - Version KDE PLASMA- Worked. Just booting in normal conditions and it worked like a charm.
2- Trisquel 10 (MATE) - work as expected but not Triskel (KDE) 11. Need to test Triskel 10 (KDE); Trisquel 11 (MATE) to see if the boot is the same. As on Fedora with just libre software it works under Fedora Workstation but not KDE spin. Maybe it is the same here.
3- I will test what Magic Banana told and i will put later the report here.
Thanks again for the answers guys.
Best regards.
I am a translator!
I tried the "something else" option for partionning while using the graphical installation, I cannot see any option to use LVM. Is there any?
At some point in the process you can choose whether to use LVM and whether to use encryption in "Advanced features...". These options may not be available if you select "Something else".
I am a translator!
In all previous versions of Trisquel, I used "something else" and then used LVM. I would find it strange that LVM is available in the automatic partitionning but not in the manual partitionning. However, I am not sure whether I used graphical or "text mode", which is actually graphical and very well guided. I just tried with the "text mode", it worked.
It even has the option to install "Trisquel GNOME environment". Is supposed to work well?
> I would find it strange that LVM is available in the automatic partitionning but not in the manual partitionning
This is not what I meant. I thought you were asking about the "Advanced features..." button that is available for the "erase everything and good luck" option. It you choose to do things manually, it makes sense that you deal with LVM yourself. I never used it, so I cannot tell you more.
LVM has been an option for quite sometime on both graphical and text installer.
What flavor of trisquel were you trying to install not showing the LVM option?
It even has the option to install "Trisquel GNOME environment". Is supposed to work well?
gnome it's been there for quite a while just not enabled, now it's back to be an option for those who want to install it, you might want to test and report any issue.
Regards.
I am a translator!
I was using the latest aramo iso. After I made a ciphered volume, I wanted to put an LVM in it, there was a list of choices with all filesystems possible, I was expecting to see the LVM option in there but it was not there. Or is it somewhere else?
The "text mode" installer worked well, except that after boot into the new system, the system language was English although I had set it to French during install (keyboard layout was ok).
I never really used gnome, I installed debian with it once but I was lost and my patience was rapidly over, then I switched to mate. Since so many apps are developped with gnome in mind now, I should probably try it again but if anything does not behave like gnome normally I won't be able to know.
If you try GNOME again, I would advise you to click on the links in the first paragraph of https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/installing-gnome-shell (a wiki page that definitely needs some updating...). The brief documentation behind the links is old. It presents GNOME Shell to those who were switching from GNOME 2, at the time. Since MATE is a fork of GNOME 2, it is relevant to you.
In particular you will discover that, contrary to what I sometimes read here and there, GNOME Shell is actually good for those who like to use the keyboard. Also, it is highly customizable through extensions.
Who is Gnome? Can we eat him too?
> GNOME Shell is actually good for those who like to use the keyboard.
True. And the reason why there are so many keyboard shortcuts is because everything you need is hidden by default.
https://help.gnome.org/users/gnome-help/stable/shell-keyboard-shortcuts.html.en
And the reason why there are so many keyboard shortcuts is because everything you need is hidden by default.
That is not true.
About the keyboard shortcuts for "Getting around the desktop". The so-called "Activities overview" (a button alone in the top-left corner that you do not even need to click: you can just throw the mouse in that corner if you do not know how or want to type the Super key) gives you, well, an overview: all the workspaces and all the windows in those workspaces. Clicking any of those workspaces/windows switches to it and a window can be dragged and dropped onto another workspace. The running applications and the launchers for your favorite applications are icons on the left. Below them, another button leads to the launchers for all the installed applications (that you can drag and drop among the favorites). Nevertheless, you can just use the "Type to search..." field (no need to click on the field: it has the focus) to search for applications but also settings, files, notes, the web, etc. The settings menu, alone in the top-right corner (whether you are in the "Activities overview" or not), contains the entries to lock/suspend/poweroff/etc. Finally, notifications appear below the date: clicking there to see them is pretty natural. Nothing is "hidden" or hard to access not knowing the keyboard shortcuts.
The "Common editing shortcuts" are the classical Ctrl+A, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+Z that most users know. If they do not, the related actions are in the contextual menu (right click), as in other desktop environments.
Finally, the last section behind the link you give deals with "Capturing from the screen". The application named GNOME Screenshot (GNOME applications have generic names to ease their discovery) provides the same features as the keyboard shortcuts and more: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Gnome-screenshot_3.38.0.png
Screencast recording is not a feature most desktop environment have, I believe.
So basically, what you are telling us is that not only nothing is showing by default, as I wrote, but one needs to reach back to the mouse anyway after all these things have become accessible? I have a vivid memory of an extra layer that created a permanent distraction. It was cool and fun, but distracting and, as you wrote, most of the time you still had to use both the mouse and the keyboard in turns. Does it sound serious to have to replace the full desktop, and back, in order to launch a text editor? To me, clearly no.
Anyway, we have been informed that there is a tacit rule in this forum that favorite desktop environments, much as favorite colors and icecream flavors, are off-topic at all times, except of course in the Troll Lounge. Since this is the Aramo ISO Beta 4 thread, and not the Gnome keyboard and mouse tap dancing thread, we shall wait for Avron's report, if ever there is anything to report back from GNOMEs hell.
So basically, what you are telling us is that not only nothing is showing by default, as I wrote, but one needs to reach back to the mouse anyway after all these things have become accessible?
I am not telling that at all. If you learn the keyboard shortcut, you obviously do not need the mouse for that action. You replied that "the reason why there are so many keyboard shortcuts is because everything you need is hidden" and gave a list of shortcuts. That is why I then explain how each of those shortcuts does something that any user can easily discover and achieve without the shortcut. In a couple of clicks or a drag and drop.
I have a vivid memory of an extra layer that created a permanent distraction.
I do not understand what you are referring to.
It was cool and fun, but distracting and, as you wrote, most of the time you still had to use both the mouse and the keyboard in turns.
To do what? For the features we discussed, you can only use the keyboard (after learning the shortcuts) or only use the mouse. Now, to click a link in the Web browser, the mouse is quite useful (although you can repeatedly use Tab). To search for a file from its name, you need a keyboard (although it can be a visual keyboard: you can get one in literally two clicks in GNOME Shell).
Does it sound serious to have to replace the full desktop, and back, in order to launch a text editor?
I type Super, e, Enter. That launches Emacs or switches to it (I actually have it launched in the Startup Applications and I never close it). I do not know if it is "serious" but it is pretty quick and, in this case, requiring no shortcut (unless you consider that typing the Super key alone is a shortcut).
Anyway, we have been informed that there is a tacit rule in this forum that favorite desktop environments, much as favorite colors and icecream flavors, are off-topic at all times, except of course in the Troll Lounge.
Propagation of wrong information (such as "everything you need is hidden [in GNOME]" or "nothing is showing by default" or "one needs to reach back to the mouse anyway") on the "Trisquel users" forum is not desirable, I believe.
Please stop flooding this thread with your endless encomium to GNOME 3, not to mention your disgraceful accusations. You should be split with immediate effect for that. Are you even using Gnome on Aramo as we speak? My personal experience with GNOME 3 remains as stated above, and I am glad Aramo is shipping with MATE by default, as has been the case since Trisquel 8 Flidas, when "GNOME dropped support for their legacy desktop" [1]. There must be reasons why so many people chose to stick with MATE instead, beyond GNOME 3 being a resource hog.
NB: someone edited the documentation page you created for installing GNOME Shell [2], not sure why they replaced "apt" by "apt-get".
[1] https://trisquel.info/en/trisquel-80-lts-flidas
[2] https://trisquel.info/en/node/24152/revisions/view/39804/45131
O 2023-01-15 05:33, prospero escribiu:
> Please stop flooding this thread with your endless encomium to GNOME
> 3, not to mention your disgraceful accusations. You should be banned
> with immediate effect for that.
The lack of respect shown by prospero to another Trisquel user here is
astonishing. "You should be banned"? For expressing an opinion about
GNOME that happens to be opposed to yours? Some people have yet to
learn about freedom of expression.
Note: prospero's message is quoted here as received from the e-mail
list. In the Forum shown in the Trisquel website, however, it reads
"You should be split with immediate effect for that". Some editing
appears to have happened.
Kind regards,
Ignacio Agulló.
> Some editing appears to have happened.
Indeed, I tried to make the humorous tone more obvious. And, visibly, failed.
> For expressing an opinion about GNOME that happens to be opposed to yours?
No. The reasons were clearly stated, and include being called a liar by said user "for expressing an opinion about
GNOME that happens to be opposed to [theirs]". Also, derailing this thread.
NB: someone edited the documentation page you created for installing GNOME Shell [2], not sure why they replaced "apt" by "apt-get".
That is typing more for a less pleasing output. But that was not much of a problem. The problem was more that every "Trisquel 8" was replaced by "Trisquel 10" without checking whether the information, written five years ago, was still accurate.
I did a few check and discovered that there is no issue with the Trisquel theme anymore, that the integration of Engrampa in Nautilus' contextual menu works (no need for File-Roller), that gnome-tweak-tool's new name is gnome-tweaks, etc. I also added a link https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/gnome-shell-integration/ for one-click installation/removal of extensions on https://extensions.gnome.org
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Thanks for the link, I will try it but it looks like I'd rather install a separate trisquel system for this, so it will take me some time to prepare that.
I have been using Trisquel Aramo GNOME environment (including Nextcloud and Evolution for CalDav/CardDAV/email) for a month or so and it works flawlessly (modulo usual GNOME/Ubuntu issues). Is there any reason why Trisquel won't publish a GNOME variant for Aramo? I'm happy to install from netinst so I don't care strongly myself.
/Simon
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Is there any reason why Trisquel uses different iso to install different desktop environments?
Also, I never understood why apps are supposed to be associated with some environment while they seem to work fine without any of them. For instance, what is the point of a different file manager for every desktop environment? Isn't that just more work for developpers and increasing the learning curve for users or requiring to configure the environment to use a different file manger?
About Evolution: I have been using Evolution for nearly two years with a dozen of email accounts and CalDav/CardDAV to synchronize calendar and contacts with radicale on my Freedombox, it works fine, I have used it with Trisquel MATE, Trisquel mini and Trisquel with fvwm alone (no "desktop environment") and have not noticed any difference. Evolution is very similar to icedove but it uses the GPG keys in the keyring directly and it looks more stable (I *never* saw Evolution crash or stall, unlike Icedove).
I never understood why apps are supposed to be associated with some environment while they seem to work fine without any of them.
They can be used independently. However, in a desktop environment, the applications use the same libraries (for GNOME: GLib, GObject, etc., only loaded once in main memory), in particular for graphical components (hence a coherent apparence/behavior of those components; GTK for GNOME) and accessibility (GNOME applications use ATK, for accessibility through Orca, Dasher, etc.), can be integrated (the GNOME calendar can show the events in Evolution's agenda, etc.), follow the same UX design guidelines (such as https://developer.gnome.org/hig for GNOME), are centrally configured (dconf for GNOME), profit from the localization effort over the whole desktop environment, etc.
> I never understood why apps are supposed to be associated with some environment while they seem to work fine without any of them.
Some say that is because the gnomish tentacle of Cthulhu wants you to believe you cannot use its apps without its shell.
I believe the main reason why their respective DE ships with those default apps is to spare users the painstaking process of adding them one by one, so they need to make sure they are not going to run into dependency hell or any kind of weird behavior. The whole idea of a DE is to make things easier for the user. When things become too complex, users tend to switch to a different DE that fits their needs better.
That said, I have indeed been using some of the default MATE applications on LXDE, like the MATE system monitor, or possibly MATE calculator, the MATE search tool and the MATE dictionary. I do not find it problematic to have access to various options. I have also been using Gedit on MATE at some point.
I am a translator!
the main reason why their respective DE ships with those default apps is to spare users the painstaking process of adding them one by one
If one has installed one DE, when installing other DEs there is no use to duplicate things like text editor, file manager, backup manager, screen resolution configuration, etc. Those things generally have no kind of integration with the DE, putting them as default instead of what the user is normally using is just making things more confusing and a barrier to trying another DE.
I wish there would be metapackages for general tools, possibly with choices, including a metapackage for configuration tools that are useful no matter the DE, e.g. to configure screen resolution/arrangement, sound, keyboard layout. Personally, when not using a DE, this is the only thing that I am really missing.
At the same time, there are things that are genuinely specific to a DE and absolutely necessary for it, like obconf for openbox (actually, this is a window manager, but this is the one used by LXDE by default), I wish there would be metapackages with everything for a DE but without apps that are obviously not DE-specific.
The lack of respect shown by prospero to another Trisquel desktop environment here is
astonishing. "gnomish fangs of Cthulhu"? For offering a desktop environment that merely tries to take over your computer and your entire life, and sink its sharp teeth deeply into your brain? Some people have yet to learn about the freedoms of the oppressor.
Note: prospero's message is quoted here as received from the e-mail list. In the Forum shown in the Trisquel website, however, it reads "gnomish tentacles of Cthulhu". Some editing appears to have happened.
Unkind regards,
Not Ignacio Agulló.
> Some editing appears to have happened.
No, I did not try to make the sharp tone more slimy. And, visibly, succeeded.
> For offering a desktop environment that merely tries to take over your computer and your entire life, and sink its sharp teeth deeply into your brain?
Indeed, apologies are in order: no Trisquel desktop environment ever misquoted my twisted writing. As in "everything you need is hidden [in *DEBLOATED*]" instead of "everything you need is hidden by default". Only an even darker entity could reach such level of farcicality.
I was thinking "farcicality" isn't really a word, but indeed it is according to all-knowing and all-seeing thefreedictionary.com. Which makes me wonder now if "debloatment" is a word?
> but indeed it is
Of course it is, I always use real words in order not to confuse the unsuspecting reader.
> "debloatment" is a word?
No, "DEBLOATED" is just a place holder. Real words for it are "materialization" or "cinnamonification".
> (modulo usual GNOME/Ubuntu issues). Is there any reason why Trisquel won't publish a GNOME variant for Aramo? I'm happy to install from netinst so I don't care strongly myself.
I have a feeling you have already partly answered your own question, modulo available human resources to implement it anyway, and the fact that Trisquel already comes in four flavors (shipping with MATE, KDE, LXDE and Sugar, respectively), not to mention the new architectures it is now supporting.
So I believe the correct question to be: "is there any reason why Trisquel would publish a $YET_ANOTHER_DE variant for Aramo?"
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