Buying a laptop
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Any suggestions for buying a laptop. I want something that works fine with Trisquel and similar OS. On H-Node there are only about 10 ones suggested, all of which are deemed not suitable for my needs (by my brother).
There's the Gluglug laptop, which works with 100% free/libre software, even a free boot loader (Coreboot):
There's also the laptops sold by Think Penguin, which work with mostly free/libre software (the only non-free software needed is the boot loader):
I have a Think Penguin laptop, personally. It works great.
With Penguin laptops, wont there be an issue that if you use the battery all the time, like charge/discharge once every second day, it will be impossible to get a replacement battery?
Also, only one model has a UK keyboard, and that model is too physicially large for me.
Is the X60 (from Gluglug) too big too? I don't see a keyboard option on the Gluglug site, but from a quick search it looks like there are UK keyboards for it that you can get elsewhere.
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What is this agenda you have against ThinkPenguin? We've sold plenty of people spare batteries, AC adapters, etc. We have replacement parts for core components (shells, motherboards, screens, batteries, ac adapters, keyboards, etc) in addition to common components like CPUs, hard drives, and ram. We even replace entire laptops from time to time if there is a serious non-obvious issue just to reduce the turn around time. Heck- we've given free upgrades in the process! I personally threw in an extra 4GB of ram the other day for a customer needing a repair at the end of there warranty period (moved a customer from 12 to 16GB). Our turn around time from receipt to repair is one of the best in the industry too. Just 2-3 days.
Check this http://libre.thinkpenguin.com
Maybe you find the laptop that you need...
Regards.. and sorry for my english :D
>all of which are deemed not suitable for my needs (by my brother).
How come?
The one I have is very old, 2003 or something. If I go onto Youtube or similar, and open another tab, the browser would probabaly crash, and the internal wireless card does not work. I got an external one, but people at school seem to think it is funny to constantly disconnect it and throw it around, which caused it to break. It worked less and less reliably, and today the computer doesn't even recognise it. I looked into replacing its minpci card, but it is too deep down for me to be prepared to take it apart that far to get to it (and it could even have a BIOS card lock).
> Any suggestions for buying a laptop. I want something that works fine
> with Trisquel and similar OS. On H-Node there are only about 10 ones
> suggested, all of which are deemed not suitable for my needs (by my
> brother).
I recently bought a laptop/netbook (not sure what your needs are), which
I will add to h-node sometime. The make/model number is "ASUS X200CA".
Features:
- freedom-compatible Atheros WiFi chipset,
- 3D acceleration support,
- it's very light (1.2kg),
- 4GB RAM,
- 500GB hard drive,
- recent Intel Celeron CPU,
- 3 USB ports (1x 3.0, 2x 2.0),
- HDMI port,
- combined microphone/headphone port and
- an SD card reader.
The battery life is longer than advertised (runs for > 3 hours) and the
charger is very light, like a mobile phone charger. It suits all of my
needs, very convenient to carry around and use, no performance issues
for me at all.
Downsides:
- comes with Windows 8 by default,
- requires some UEFI/BIOS config to run Trisquel,
- hard drive speed is 5400rpm,
- BIOS is proprietary software,
- glossy screen (which is normal in most laptops, but I prefer matte),
- right-click button behaviour is different to what I am used to. The
button does a left click for some reason, but touching two fingers on
the touchpad or using the right-click key on the keyboard works; and
- requires a kernel update (I upgraded to 3.10) for the touch screen and
ethernet adapter to work.
I haven't tested 3D-intensive games on it, but I don't think it would
work that well as a gaming laptop, besides running less
graphics-intensive games. Some reviews I found before I bought the
laptop said the laptop can get a little bit warm, although I haven't had
any such issues so far!
Andrew.
If I just go onto a shopping website, and click on the laptop you suggested, and buy it, is it likely the wireless card might just be a different one? If it is a miniPCI one, the manufacturer may have a policy of fitting the cheapest one they can obtain that is to the specification.
None of the shopping sites specify what chipset it is.
> If I just go onto a shopping website, and click on the laptop you
> suggested, and buy it, is it likely the wireless card might just be a
> different one? If it is a miniPCI one, the manufacturer may have a
> policy of fitting the cheapest one they can obtain that is to the
> specification.
>
> None of the shopping sites specify what chipset it is.
I'm not too sure, to be honest. I bought it expecting that I would have
to buy a USB WiFi adapter, and was surprised when it worked.
Andrew.
ASUS X200CA: WLAN adapter Atheros AR9485
[1] http://h-node.org/notebooks/view/en/1296/X200CA-KX007/1/1/undef/undef/undef/undef/undef/undef/undef/x200ca
[2] http://us.hardware.info/productinfo/200661/asus-x200ca-ct112h#tab:specifications
[3] http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201306-13793/components/
[4] https://www.centos.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=44875
[5] http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/catalog/component/pci/168c%3A0032/
But if I update the Kernel then it will work totally perfectly, (i do not care for bluetooth, which might not work)
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Hey!
I am using a Lenovo IdeaPad S210 Touch-- It was under $300, my version came with the Atheros wireless card, and everything works perfectly out of the box.
The only thing I do not like is the battery life is only around 2 hours.
Best,
Lev
Have you seen this?
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Hey Lembas,
Thanks for the link! this is great information -- unfortunately even when this computer had Windows on it, it would max out at around 2.5 hours so surprisingly Trisquel does just as well!
The nice part about this specific computer is that it is small, light, and has a pretty small power cable so it is not too annoying to have to carry it around with me and plug in when needed.
Best,
Lev
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Also -- Maybe worth mentioning, the touch screen (while faddish and kind of useless) works with the latest libre-kernel. :)
Can you post one video or photos using the touch screen? http://gobblin.se
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Hi!
I was having trouble getting the video on the site you linked to - I tried to upload it twice but it did not seem to go through. So, I uploaded it to an alternate location.
http://levlaz.co/media.html#trisqueldemo (Right click and select play)
Please check out the short video I made of my using the touch screen on the laptop. As you can see it is surprisingly responsive. It is not the most useful feature since the UI today was really designed for the keyboard and mouse, but it certainly opens up a lot of possibilities for future development!
Best,
Lev
Heh, glad to know I'm not the only one. Must be a bug; gobblin.se periodically pulls the latest MediaGoblin code, so it breaks from time to time.
Thank you!
You can install GNOME Shell (sudo apt-get install gnome-shell gnome-session)
It's good for touch screen and have screen keyboard: http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/askscreenshots/keyboard.png
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/7180/how-do-i-enable-and-use-the-on-screen-keyboard/
About the Wi-Fi card: AirForce Broadcoms should also do. I've got a laptop at home with a Broadcom94311 card and OpenfWWF supports it.
That firmware is experimental. An ath9k card is certainly better since Atheros actually supports it without any nonfree software.
Is the one in the x200ca the ath9k? I intend to get that one.
So if I get a x200CA, it is very unlikely not to work with the GNU operating system? Does everything work, or just the important bits?
I will look into those computers, and see which one is best for my needs.
What is the situation for replacement batteries for Penguin Laptops? That they do not exist?
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Chris (Owner of ThinkPenguin) is pretty active on these forums, I am not sure about the answer this this question - but I hope he comes by and provides some insight!
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I don't know specifically about the Asus x200CA although Asus is not on our 'avoid at all costs list', although, that doesn't mean I'd recommend them. Your still contributing to non-free software. The companies to avoid at all cost are HP, IBM/Lenovo, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, and Apple. They use digital restrictions on the Mini PCIe wifi card slots/and or other proprietary components making it impossible or near impossible to free.
We carry spare/replacement parts for ThinkPenguin laptops/desktops. This includes batteries, AC adapters, etc. We have 1-year limited warranties included with every system and 3-year extended limited warranties available at additional charge as well. While we're not big enough to maintain a great database of parts on our web site they are available. Just send an email to support or sales @ thinkpenguin and they'll respond with an invoice for the requested part.
When you say I am contributing to non-free software, do you mean the £30 microsoft got for my windows 8 licsense?
axgb wrote:
> When you say I am contributing to non-free software, do you mean the £30
> microsoft got for my windows 8 licsense?
I think he means more that when you buy hardware that makes no effort to
work with free/libre software, companies have no incentive to fix the
problem.
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Exactly what I was saying.
Though... I'd also frown on contributing to companies contributing to proprietary software development too. But not what I was saying.
First thing I'd avoid is those using digital restrictions (HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, Apple, Lenovo/IBM are well known for this, most other companies appear not to have implemented digital restrictions), and then those shipping with primarily proprietary software (MS Windows, etc, most companies do this), then those shipping with select components depending on proprietary software (for instance GNU/Linux, but with non-free blobs required, pretty much everybody... except ThinkPenguin, and the company which ships the Gluglug X60 laptop), and lastly those shipping with non-free BIOS and bits of other non-free software (Gluglug does not have a non-free BIOS, but does ship with bits of other non-free code, it appears, better than the ThinkPenguin, but not also at a cost, as this effort does depend on slower outdated refurbished parts being used, 3GB max ram, 60GB max hard drive, etc It's also bad due to promotion of a company that is pushing digital restrictions, ie Lenovo/IBM).
I don't realistically expect most people are going to put up with the issues / problems presented by a 100% free laptop/desktop unfortunately. However I think that is still something we should work toward. Right now I think the best approach is targeting as many people as possible using X86 and use those funds to further fund projects working on fixing non-free software problems.
I think moving away from X86 is going to be the solution to eliminating lots of non-free bits. Much more so then simply replacing the BIOS with LibreBoot (ie coreboot, but without any non-free bits). Keep in mind LibreBoot doesn't actually eliminate the need for non-free bits entirely. What it does is simply not load new non-free bits, but the old non-free bits in the CPU are still being executed. Essentially it creates a security nightmare and only partly resolves the non-free software issue.
In any case no matter what you do I think the Gluglug X60 laptop is a better option than going out an buying a new HP, Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, Apple, or Sony (due to the digital restrictions) with non-free software, digital restrictions, etc.
In my mind neither the Gluglug X60 laptop is perfect nor is ThinkPenguin, but both are doing *something*. That is more than I think most free software users are doing sadly. Still there are still a lot of people here on the forums and elsewhere who *do* support free software (via donations) and purchase of hardware. To those I say thank you. To those who can't afford new hardware I also say thank you, for any other contributions made, as it's not just financial contributions that help move things forward. Code contributions, tutorials, blogs, and even posting answers to people's questions/problems makes a big difference. And even if you are unable to do any of these things just a determination to avoid non-free software / and being active in supporting efforts is a contribution in my book (signing campaigns against DRM, etc).
Heh, and with that I am reminded of Mike Linksvayer's [0] comment that "if you aren’t helping make freedom real and real popular, you hate freedom!" [1]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Linksvayer
[1] http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/04/23/drm-html5-whywhat/
I have bought and now have a x200CA.
Thank you Andrew for suggesting it.
It works very well, everything that needs to work does.
> I have bought and now have a x200CA.
>
> Thank you Andrew for suggesting it.
>
> It works very well, everything that needs to work does.
Cool! Good to hear that it works for you.
Andrew.
I have found out how to fix the right click,
See here
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=107118
(the second post down)
It works fine for me
I will post something on H-node saying that is how to fix it.
Thank you
When I posted that my intendsion was for people to post their model numbers, and for me to decide if one of them is suitable. For some reason, that laptop was listed as B on H-node (but only a few trivial things dont work.
Battery life is still an issue with free software - hardware. I've had for a short time a Samsung with Atom CPU that went for over 12 hours with WiFi and Bluetooth off and over 7 hours with both on.
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I've been using a Thinkpad X61 for about 2 years now. I recently switched to Trisquel from Parabola and everything works great for me. I did have to flash a custom BIOS in order to get a free software supported wifi card to work, but it was well worth it (And only cost about $6).
I personally found mine on eBay for ~$75, so if you need a laptop with decent processing speed and you're on a nearly-broke budget (like me) I can't say enough good things about it.
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