Do I need to upgrade Trisquel 8 to 9 ?

33 risposte [Ultimo contenuto]
iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

Thinkpad x200, Trisquel 8.0 Flidas 64 bit, kernel 4.4.0-210-generic x86-64, MATE 1.12.1

As this no longer receives security updates, is it safe to use it long term ? I really don't want to change anything as it was difficult enough to setup. An upgrade notice has never appeared.

I like 8 with the mate desktop.

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

Since Trisquel is free software, you can use it for as long as you wish. Unlike proprietary software, there is no forced upgrading.

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

... but it is very unsafe to use a system that receives no security update! You should definitely upgrade to Trisquel 9, which still ships with the MATE desktop by default. To upgrade you can first try do execute in a terminal:
$ sudo do-release-upgrade
If that does not work, try adding option -d:
$ sudo do-release-upgrade -d
If that still does not work, execute that:
$ sudo sed -i 's/flidas/etiona/' /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

I never apply security updates, no matter on GNU/Linux or Losedows. Preventing anyone (including your parents, spouse, children and friends) from connecting to your private/internal LAN is more than enough.

Malsasa
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Iscritto: 12/01/2016

Hello, xliang. Surprisingly, I also never apply security updates.
Hello Magic Banana, thank you for your advise, you are right and I
really appreciate it.

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

That I don't install security updates is because Debian unstable (sid) has no security updates.

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

Sid is constantly updated! Still using Trisquel 8 is a very different situation. Known vulnerabilities that have been fixed upstream will never be fixed in Trisquel 8.

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

Installed 9 Etionia 32bit on my X60 using;

$ sudo do-release-upgrade -d

And I forgot to take a backup before starting ! it seems to have worked though. The /dev/sda1 ext4, is nearly full. Can I just uninstall stuff that is not needed to make space ?

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

The upgrade should not touch the user files. That said, you should regularly back up those files: the disk can die, if it is in a laptop, that laptop can be stolen, there may be a fire in the room, etc.

You can uninstall the applications you never use. That said, it is usually more efficient to first identify what takes space. You can use "baobab", which is in Trisquel's repository.

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

Where is /dev/sda1 mounted? Normally it is mounted at /boot or /

This is another draw back of fixed-released distributions. The upgrading consumes lots of disk space.

By contrast, a rolling distribution is updated daily, you don't have to update hundreds of packages at one time.

lanun
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Iscritto: 04/01/2021

> is updated daily

And thus less stable. A fresh install of Trisquel is easy and fast and requires no daily tweaking.

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

So every couple of years or so I'll need to completely reinstall the OS ? For a non techie like myself that sucks. And if Trisquel 8 is now unstable to use online the lifecycle is worse than Windows 7, which can still have security updates.

Two of my laptops have Trisquel 8. 32 & 64 bit. I thought they would be covered for years with security at least. LTS (long term support).

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

If you don't want to re-install OS after a couple of years, you could try a (semi-)rolling distribution like Debian testing/unstable. Run "sudo apt update" and then "sudo apt upgrade" daily and you always have up-to-date packages.

I doubt whether fixed-release distributions (including LTS distributions) are really suitable for "non-techies". I have seen that so many users experienced various problems when they tried to upgrade their distribution to the next major version.

I always suggest that beginners should use a rolling release. Even if they do want a fixed release distribution, I'd rather recommend a short support term distribution than an LTS version.

lanun
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Iscritto: 04/01/2021

> I have seen that so many users experienced various problems when they tried to upgrade their distribution to the next major version.

Nonsense. I had no problem whatsoever upgrading from Trisquel 8 to Trisquel 9, although I had always been doing fresh installs in the past and would not call myself a "techie". There is nothing like "major versions" in Trisquel, you must be confusing it with another distro.

You recently admitted that it makes no sense to post here to advise against using Trisquel on debunked claims. It also goes against the Community Guidelines. Why are you doing it again? Are you just trolling or is it because you can't accept that other users might have different preferences?

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

So every couple of years or so I'll need to completely reinstall the OS ?

Yes. You have many months to decide when exactly (i.e., when you have time to adapt to the newer system and potentially solve technically issues that the upgrade may create).

Using a rolling-release distribution, as nadebula.1984 suggests, all the packages are constantly updated. On one hand, the user does not need to adapt to the newer versions of all her applications at once. On the other hand, an application may be updated exactly when she does not want it to: little before urgent work needs to be achieved with that application. I also believe that, in sum, there are more technical issues to solve with a rolling-release distribution, which goes through every version of every package, instead of pulling from a version to a version released ~2 years later, and is less tested.

And if Trisquel 8 is now unstable to use online the lifecycle is worse than Windows 7, which can still have security updates.

For Professional/Enterprise editions you mean. For home users the support of Windows 7 ended a long time ago: https://web.archive.org/web/20130502231039/http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/springboard/archive/2013/02/14/windows-7-rtm-end-of-support-is-right-around-the-corner.aspx

Trisquel 8 is now "unsupported". It is not "unstable". Quite the contrary: it is so stable that it receives no update... and that is the problem.

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

It's very easy to avoid unwanted updates to certain packages in a rolling distribution using its package manager. In Debian, you can enable multiple repositories at the same time and assign different priority levels for them. For example, I enable testing, unstable and experimental repositories. Some other people may need stable, testing and unstable at the same time. It is also possible to explicitly select a package from any specific repository.

Therefore a rolling release has more pros than cons.

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

Do you really claim that assigning priority levels to repositories is for "non-techies"?

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

Create a file (in arbitrary name) under /etc/apt/preferences.d and edit it like this (my current configuration):

Package: *
Pin: release a=testing
Pin-Priority: 900

Package: *
Pin: release a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 500

Package: *
Pin: release a=experimental
Pin-Priority: 100

I don't find such operations too hard for average users. Any instructions for beginners should tell them how to create or modify configuration files.

lanun
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Iscritto: 04/01/2021

You must be joking. Most users are looking for user friendly OS which do not require them to start by creating individual configuration rules for package updates.

I am beginning to believe that you are in fact living in a parallel universe where hardware is somehow similar, but where you learned about our universe by reading computing books and Karl Marx.

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

If the "user friendliness" means preventing beginners from being hackers, then I'm strongly against such friendliness.

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

Nobody here wants to prevent beginners from being hackers. What you apparently fail to acknowledge is that most users do not want to become computer hackers. They have other interests they dedicate their time to. It is perfectly fine. Trisquel allows them to do their computing in freedom without having to become skilled system administrators and without having to fear that, after a seemingly trifling update, the application they need for urgent work behaves differently from they get accustomed to.

lanun
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Iscritto: 04/01/2021

Please do not let proprietary software corrupt the meaning of "friendly". Providing a nice and intuitive GUI to users who need it is friendly, preventing them to learn about the inner working of a system is unfriendly.

You must have missed this one: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

lanun
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Iscritto: 04/01/2021

> Therefore a rolling release has more pros than cons.

And now you are telling us that using Trisquel is stupid, and hence that only stupid people are using it. Without any supporting argument.

Thanks for the compliment, and thanks for reaching to us on the Trisquel forum, but since we are stupid we will probably keep using Trisquel. We are still impressed that you are taking so much pain to preach here against Trisquel, regardless of the Community Guidelines: "The forum / mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of Trisquel. Non-constructive or off-topic messages, along with other abuses, are not welcome."

vita_cell
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Iscritto: 07/19/2015

You aren't forced to anything, like in proprietary software. But maybe you are better doing with rolling release GNU distribution.

Trisquel it's ultra easy to install. If you really want the stablest experience and very extended time, use Slackware, it has a good lifecycle, you can deblob it easily, even it has official documentation for doing that. But, it is not a distro for newbies. Trisquel is one of easiest distibutions.

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

I've now updated both Trisquel laptops, 32 & 64 bit to 9. The ext4 partition has really filled up on both computers. Will it need re sizing when full ?

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

First of all, try to make some space with the two following commands, to be executed in a terminal:
$ sudo apt autoremove
$ sudo apt clean

Then, please show us the output of the following command so that we can see what partitions you have, of what types and how full they are:
$ df -hT

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev devtmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /dev
tmpfs tmpfs 384M 1.4M 383M 1% /run
/dev/sda1 ext4 19G 5.3G 13G 31% /
tmpfs tmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs tmpfs 5.0M 4.0K 5.0M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs tmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mapper/trisquel--vg-home xfs 211G 7.2G 204G 4% /home
tmpfs tmpfs 384M 52K 384M 1% /run/user/1000
user@user-ThinkPad-X200:~$

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

Thinkpad X60;

Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
udev devtmpfs 983M 0 983M 0% /dev
tmpfs tmpfs 201M 1.3M 200M 1% /run
/dev/sda1 ext4 19G 5.9G 12G 34% /
tmpfs tmpfs 1002M 0 1002M 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs tmpfs 5.0M 4.0K 5.0M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs tmpfs 1002M 0 1002M 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/sda6 xfs 37G 6.2G 30G 18% /home
tmpfs tmpfs 201M 36K 201M 1% /run/user/1000
user@user-ThinkPad-X60:~$

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

Your root partitions are respectively 31% and 34% full. It is more than fine: once the applications you need are installed, there is no reason for the usage of the root partition (with /home separated) to significantly grow.

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

Thanks for the helpful info Magic Banana. They both boot and work ok but there is an initial black screen for approx 20 seconds on both laptops, before the Trisquel 9 screen appears. Never happened on 8.

Would this help ?

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/blank-start-screen-after-upgrading-etonia

Install lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings: sudo apt install lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

Installing lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings helped several users facing the same issue, in the thread you found: there is a high probability it will help you as well.

iceburn
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Iscritto: 12/07/2019

After installation the boot up time still shows about 15-20 seconds of black screen before 9 starts, on both machines.
i'm guessing, that a fresh installtion of 9 from a disk might solve this ? Or is there another method ?

-I don't know how to set up using the GUI given. Changed a few things but the start up is still black screen for first 20 seconds.

Magic Banana

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Iscritto: 07/24/2010

i'm guessing, that a fresh installtion of 9 from a disk might solve this ?

Do you care that much about a graphical splash screen? If not, you can get a textual bootup by editing /etc/default/grub (here with pluma that you can replace with your favourite text editor):
$ sudo pluma /etc/default/grub
Removing "splash" from GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX may be enough. If not, you can then try to define GRUB_TERMINAL as "console" (that definition is probably already in /etc/default/grub but commented, i.e., preceded by the character '#' that you can remove). After saving the modified /etc/default/grub, you need to execute that command for the change to be effective:
$ sudo update-grub

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

Wrong usage: sudo pluma /path/filename

Correct usage: SUDO_EDITOR=pluma sudoedit /path/filename

Some GUI text editors completely disallow usage with sudo, such as KDE's Kate. If you try to run "sudo kate", you get an error message.

Please note that sudoedit also supports Wayland.