a First good news in 2021

37 risposte [Ultimo contenuto]
alimiracle
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Iscritto: 01/18/2014

hi
now I will gave you a First good news in 2021.
Richard Stallman is back at FSF after he was 'cancelled' in 2019. Good news, right?
I'm a big fan of his. His contributions cannot be questioned.
And gnu/Linux would not exist in it's current form without him.
have fun and be free
ali miracle

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

That is good news!

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

Of course. He is irresistible.

babes_for_you.jpg
loldier
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Iscritto: 02/17/2016
lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

What about this one:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/free-software-advocates-seek-removal-of-richard-stallman-and-entire-fsf-board

It just all sounds so much like the perfect internal war of attrition everybody outside free software was secretly calling for.

eric23
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Iscritto: 06/30/2017

This thing here makes no sense. Is this what happens when the many make a statement?

I am really failing to understand.

https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

RMS has spent years on a campaign against using people’s correct pronouns. This is poorly disguised transphobia. In the original publication of the GNU Kind Communication Guidelines, he said “there are various ways to express gender neutrality in third-person singular pronouns in English; you do not have to use ‘they.’”14 This text has since been updated, but is still transphobic.15 The main page on his web site includes the statement that “‘They’ is plural — for singular antecedents, use singular gender-neutral pronouns.”16

loldier
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Iscritto: 02/17/2016

https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html

They think one should not argue with people breaking the grammar. Some languages in the world are gender agnostic (eg. Finnish) in this respect.

There are those who claim that we have an obligation to refer to someone using whatever pronouns person might choose. I disagree with that position, on grounds of principle and grounds of practice. I think we should respect other people's gender identification, but which pronouns we use for any particular gender identification is a separate matter — a matter of grammar. We do not owe it to anyone to change our grammar according to per wishes.

onpon4
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Iscritto: 05/30/2012

Singular they isn't "breaking the grammar" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they) and neopronouns that people have made up to self-identify with are no more "breaking the grammar" than the neopronouns that Stallman made up.

Stallman made up his "per/per/pers" pronouns specifically to intentionally misgender people by refusing to use the pronouns they identify with. Intentional misgendering is violence, plain and simple.

I'm embarrassed I was ever a part of this horrible community. Y'all disgust me.

loldier
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Iscritto: 02/17/2016

In my native language, Finnish, there are no gender specific pronouns. As a foreign language, a singular "they" is new to me. I admit, I don't understand the gravity of this situation.

panties
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Iscritto: 02/02/2021

I don't care at all whether Mr. Stallman returns to the FSF or is expelled from it again (because I cannot always understand at all what is going on there), but if he created and proposed that per/per/pers term, this is not only misgendering but probably also a hate crime, because in our language "per" means stupid, or rather dumb. I have read that he is a multilingual speaker and has learned some Japanese. I can't believe he doesn't know the word "パー(per)", which is very common and is something you learn early on when learning Japanese, stands for stupid.
Well, it's a topic that really doesn't matter to me though, so I have not read this thread seriously but I just thought I should point it out.

loldier
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Iscritto: 02/17/2016

In Swedish, the proposed gender neutral pronoun would be 'hen' (hon, han, hen).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun)

The word was first proposed in 1966, and again in 1994, with reference to the Finnish hän, a personal pronoun that is gender-neutral, since Finnish does not have grammatical genders.

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

I thought "hen" was for the female, and "cock" for the male. We might then need to take to calling each other "chicken".

"This chicken says so, that other chicken there argues different".

"When Johnny popped in, everybody thought that chicken would never pop off."

"When someone started a thread about someone else's position at a free software organization, the former chicken most probably did not intend to initiate a discussion about a grammatical controversy in which the latter chicken got involved years ago."

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

> but if he created and proposed that per/per/pers term, this is not only misgendering but probably also a hate crime, because in our language "per" means stupid, or rather dumb

So he committed a hate crime against stupid people?

panties
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Iscritto: 02/02/2021

I don't know... which people?

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

> I'm embarrassed I was ever a part of this horrible community. Y'all disgust me.

And yet you had no problem with weboob naming their packages ""flatboob", "handjoob", "wetboobs", etc." https://trisquel.info/en/forum/debians-anti-harassment-team-removing-package-over-its-name#comment-137950

Not saying that I particularly disagree with your perspective on the language used either then or now. But if we are a "horrible disgusting community" because we feel free to talk about the pros and cons of language that some find offensive, then you are just as much a part of making it "horrible" and "disgusting" as anyone. So maybe you should consider ratcheting down your level of outrage two or three notches and take a look in the mirror, or otherwise someone might go so far as to call you a hypocrite. Not me - I would never do that - but someone might.

onpon4
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Iscritto: 05/30/2012

As it happens, I change and grow as a person as I learn new things. You should try it sometime. I stopped believing in that right-wing bullshit something like 2 years ago.

And for the record, the reason I'm embarrassed is because I was a part of this community and contributed to its toxicity.

It's amazing to me that you consider it to be "hypocrisy" to say something which contradicts a previously held belief that you no longer believe, as if you think personal growth and changing one's mind is impossible. Yeah, I've changed. I think I've made that perfectly clear in the last couple of years through social media, my website, and even my programming work itself.

You're capable of changing and growing too. But if you refuse to better yourself, that's on you.

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

I'm glad to hear about your personal transformation and that you are more happy with yourself. That's a great thing.

gaseousness
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Iscritto: 08/25/2020

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-they

^ They wasn't added until September 2019.

https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html

^Stallman writes, "I made some edits in July, 2019, but no major changes."

So appears that perhaps he may have not been in fact actually "breaking the grammar", in retrospect? I'm not an expert on English but some old dusty dictionary, I had laying around from decades ago appears to have only plural definitions.

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

"He continued leading the GNU operating system project, which is supported by the FSF, despite calls to resign from that position as well."

I thought the two had nothing to do with each other.

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

Anyway, better not rely on single heroes might be the main conclusion.

Heroes are in fact humans and also make mistakes, and because they are much more recognizable it makes the mistakes possibly vastly amplified and distorted.

Also, doing without figureheads at the helm might prevent wasting resources fighting internal wars for the sake of one person's unhappy choices of words of years ago. Heroes and organizations should stay apart and complement each others. Not unlike literal figureheads and people at the helm.

eric23
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Iscritto: 06/30/2017

When I see society trying to gang up on one person, I don't see that as justice. Doesn't that lead to more withdrawal? Isn't that inhumane?

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

> society trying to gang up on one person

This is not society, this is a gang targeting one person in order to defeat society.

nadebula.1984
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Iscritto: 05/01/2018

RMS has been increasingly conservative, though.

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

Not enough for The Software Freedom Conservancy, it seems:

https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/mar/23/outreachy-fsf

t3g
t3g
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Iscritto: 05/15/2011

I find it funny that Mozilla is a top force behind this, considering they are all-in regarding censorship and deplatforming: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/

The marketshare of Firefox is pretty low these days, so the joke is on them.

J.B. Nicholson-Owens
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Iscritto: 06/09/2014

name at domain wrote:
> I find it funny that Mozilla is a top force behind this, considering they are all-in
> regarding censorship and deplatforming:
> https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-than-deplatforming/

Mozilla's support for censorship is overcome by the fact that Firefox is free
software. No matter what features Firefox takes on we have the freedom we need to
edit them out, distribute the improved version, and continue on with our improved
software. Mozilla's organizational politics and justifications become a lesser matter
as none of them have risen to the level where they adversely affect the public. The
more popular browsers are all proprietary software. Thus no matter how much those
proprietors want to convince us that they can be trusted with our data, structurally
those browsers cannot be trusted and proprietary software is a public harm in itself.
That so many of those other browsers are made by spies (such as the privatized NSA
known as Google) redoubles the harm.

> The marketshare of Firefox is pretty low these days, so the joke is on them.

I don't think popularity and other establishment media values are wise methods of
understanding what's important. Software freedom (required for privacy and free
speech on computers) is a much better guide.

t3g
t3g
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Iscritto: 05/15/2011

I heard newer versions of Chromium will continue to strip out more Google related code. They see it as an incentive to use Chrome to tie to Google services, while it could be a benefit to others to have a more open browser.

loldier
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Iscritto: 02/17/2016

EFF calls on RMS to step down.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/03/statement-re-election-richard-stallman-fsf-board

"We at EFF are profoundly disappointed to hear of the re-election of Richard Stallman to a leadership position at the Free Software Foundation, after a series of serious accusations of misconduct led to his resignation as president and board member of the FSF in 2019. We are also disappointed that this was done despite no discernible steps taken by him to be accountable for, much less make amends for, his past actions or those who have been harmed by them. Finally, we are also disturbed by the secretive process of his re-election, and how it was belatedly conveyed to FSF’s staff and supporters.

Stallman’s re-election sends a wrong and hurtful message to free software movement, as well as those who have left that movement because of Stallman’s previous behavior.

Free software is a vital component of an open and just technological society: its key institutions and individuals cannot place misguided feelings of loyalty above their commitment to that cause. The movement for digital freedom is larger than any one individual contributor, regardless of their role. Indeed, we hope that this moment can be an opportunity to bring in new leaders and new ideas to the free software movement.

We urge the voting members of the FSF1 to call a special meeting to reconsider this decision, and we also call on Stallman to step down: for the benefit of the organization, the values it represents, and the diversity and long-term viability of the free software movement as a whole."

gaseousness
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Iscritto: 08/25/2020

I never really trusted the EFF. According to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Frontier_Foundation one of their founders Steve Wozniak, is also a so called founder of Apple (Playing both sides in regards of privacy it appears?). Also I've seen the EFF do commercials for proprietary software like signal.

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

Mark Cuban is one of the big EFF donors, if that tells you anything.

t3g
t3g
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Iscritto: 05/15/2011

I supported the EFF one year and now I'm really pissed they are attacking the FSF. What kind of world are we living in?

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

One in which trillion dollar tech companies think they make all the rules?

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

I think the real evil is acronyms.

The EFF taking on the FSF reminds me of the People's Front of Judea and their sworn adversary, the Judean People's Front. We all know how it ended.

andyprough
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Iscritto: 02/12/2015

"Always look on the bright side of life!!"

gaseousness
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Iscritto: 08/25/2020

https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/vote_002

Appears Debian is going to have a vote on a "General Resolution: Statement regarding Richard Stallman's readmission to the FSF board", weird?

lutes
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Iscritto: 09/04/2020

Someone might have underestimated something.

However, this:

https://www.fsf.org/news/preliminary-board-statement-on-fsf-governance

gaseousness
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Iscritto: 08/25/2020

Citation 14 on https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix is interesting?

https://web.archive.org/web/20161107050933/https://stallman.org/archives/2016-jul-oct.html#31_October_2016_(Down's_syndrome) has

"A new noninvasive test for Down's syndrome will eliminate the small risk of the current test.

This might lead more women to get tested, and abort fetuses that have Down's syndrome. Let's hope so!

If you'd like to love and care for a pet that doesn't have normal human mental capacity, don't create a handicapped human being to be your pet. Get a dog or a parrot. It will appreciate your love, and it will never feel bad for being less capable than normal humans. "

But if one visits https://stallman.org/archives/2016-jul-oct.html#31_October_2016_(Down's_syndrome), a totally different post one will see. Are they fabricating "evidence" against RMS?

quidam

I am a member!

I am a translator!

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Iscritto: 12/22/2004

There are too many examples of off-topic discussion here, so I'm closing this thread. Also moving it to general free-sofware, where it is somewhat better fitting.