I am waiting the day when Hurd kernel will be default kernel in Trisquel

51 risposte [Ultimo contenuto]
dadix
Offline
Iscritto: 07/01/2013

Like in my tilr from above. :)

dadix
Offline
Iscritto: 07/01/2013

Like in my title from above. :)
(By the way! How to edit a topic?)

Darksoul71
Offline
Iscritto: 01/04/2012

"By the way! How to edit a topic?"
This is not possible since the forum is not a true forum but more another form of representation of a mailing list :)

a_slacker_here
Offline
Iscritto: 06/30/2013

Coul you elaborat on that please?

andrew
Offline
Iscritto: 04/19/2012

On 23/08/13 20:03, dadix wrote:
> Like in my tilr from above. :)

At this time, I don't think Hurd will provide the free software
community with any benefit over existing solutions, like Linux-libre...

The Hurd isn't even stable in upstream (Debian) yet. Don't hold your breath.

Andrew.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Elegant though microkernels might be in the purely theoretical imagination of programmers, I doubt the Hurd will ever be more than an unstable experiment for hobbyists to hack away at.
Not to mention there's no reason whatsoever to replace the Linux kernel in the first place.

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

Can't you imagine what pleasure it would be to call the os the "GNU System"?
I don't want any longer this annoying dialog like
"I'm using the Gnu+Linux operating system"
"the what?"
"Most people think it's linux. The true story starts in the 80s, when richard stallman... [here comes the whole story]"

EricxDu
Offline
Iscritto: 02/03/2013

That's exactly the appeal of the HURD. Also, I'm assuming it's so the free software community has more control over what goes into the working kernel. The Linux foundation is motivated to put all kinds of non-free bits into it.

Will the HURD ever be able to approach the mass compatibility that the Linux kernel has? Seems like that would take a LOT of work.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

I see... You're annoyed about a silly naming controversy. And just for that, let's replace the whole fucking kernel. Right. XD

Hey, nobody's forcing you to make that speech. Frankly, probably be better if you don't considering 99.9% of people don't give a shit anyway.. And 90% of those people still run Windows.. Let's try taking this one step at a time, shall we?

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

> 99.9% of people don't give a shit anyway..

99.9 % of people don't care about freedom and free software - so let's just don't talk about it anymore?

> You're annoyed about a silly naming controversy

It's not only about a name, but about the ideas behind it. The guys from GNU are one of the few who care about free software; if gnu disappears out of peoples minds then it's a bad day for freedom.
And no, I won't stop using the proper names and appreciate the work of many developers; I won't abandon neither the name linux nor the name gnu, it's just not right to do so.
But I wish I could abandon linux without disrespecting anybodys work.

I agree that it's not the most urgent thing in the free software world to finish the hurd.
But the fs movement will get stronger when it can present a whole, own operating system.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Just saying. It might be more benefictial for actual adoption to save the heavy-handed and dogmatic "software ethics" speech for later.
Just thinking one should take these things step by step. Luring them in with shiny features and all that jazz. Take a lesson from proprietary software and set some traps. x)

Yes yes, I've heard the speech before. We're on the Trisquel forums u'know..
And use whatever name you want, wouldn't stop you even if I could.

Well, Debian GNU/Hurd is technically a thing. Go nuts.
Of course, it's still called GNU slash Hurd, so if we all get out a calculator and do some math I believe that means you've saved.. Exactly one letter?
And all we lost was.. Eh... Stability, fucktons of features, software compatibility and hardware support. Good times.

TralfamadorianOrator
Offline
Iscritto: 11/12/2011

It is precisely because so many people don't care that we must make that speech and have that debate.

More speech is always better than no speech. The best way to counter bad speech is with more speech, not less of it.

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

The FSF basically gave up on Hurd, which I think was a bad decision. That was like if they had given up on the entire GNU project "just because it's too hard". I really think it might have been a decision by RMS, seeing that he gave up coding and now only gives speeches. I think he could maybe help the GNU project more if he kept coding.
Having said that, having Hurd is a good thing, because it is a different kernel than linux, and it comes with some interesting new ideas. In terms of security it could be breakthrough. Even if it will take years. Right now the only people working on it is Debian, and that means that sooner or later they will get it working. They have mips, kfreebsd, sparc, powerpc... they will get it working, even if it takes a long time.

About the name controversy, it was stupid the moment it was started, it was almost like a popularity contest that no one wanted to lose.
I don't feel like saying "I am running windows 98/Dos". So, I really think it would have been more correct to say "GNU". But if you want people to know what you are talking about nowadays you have to say linux -.-
Considering that no Distro these days is pure GNU, it has many other things there, I would consider more correct, in the present time, to say "I use Trisquel, or Debian, or Ubuntu, or OpenBSD, or whatever".

Magic Banana

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/24/2010

The FSF did not gave up on HURD "just because it's too hard" but because the Linux kernel, distributed under the GNU GPL, was there to fill the gap. Notice, for instance, that that the GNU project never started a window system because the X window system, distributed under a free software license, was there to fill the gap.

As for rms, I think he is, today, the most influential advocate for free software. If, instead, he would keep on programming all day long, he would be one among the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of free software developers. Developing free software is not the main problem the movement is facing. The main problem is making users, and even GNU users (who think they only are Linux users), realize they have freedoms and should fight for them. If we do not fight for our freedoms, we will lose. We actually lost them in the early 2000s when no GNU/Linux distribution was entirely free software.

Contrary to what you write, users do not know what "Linux" is. Most of them think it is a whole operating system created by Linus Torvalds. And Linus Torvalds does not care about freedoms. As a consequence, most users do not know the values that lead to most of the operating system they use. They do not value their freedoms and consider "Linux" as an alternative to Windows in the exact same way (according to them) that "Mac OS" is an alternative to Windows.

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

> The FSF did not gave up on HURD "just because it's too hard" but because the Linux kernel, distributed under the GNU GPL, was there to fill the gap. Notice, for instance, that that the GNU project never started a window system because the X window system, distributed under a free software license, was there to fill the gap.

Wrong. They started working on Hurd as a microkernel because it was better than a monolithic kernel, and they couldn't get it done even though they started it in the 80s. Linus was able to make Linux faster because he did it monolithic and also because he just did the basic system, then other people started adding things. While it is true that they gave up on Hurd because they already had Linux available, the real point here is that Hurd is HARD AS HELL TO PUT TO WORK! They stopped it because it was too hard, they couldn't get it done. Debian team has done a wonderful job with adding it to their system, and I believe one day we will have GNU/Hurd up and running.

> As for rms, I think he is, today, the most influential advocate for free software. If, instead, he would keep on programming all day long, he would be one among the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of free software developers. Developing free software is not the main problem the movement is facing. The main problem is making users, and even GNU users (who think they only are Linux users), realize they have freedoms and should fight for them. If we do not fight for our freedoms, we will lose. We actually lost them in the early 2000s when no GNU/Linux distribution was entirely free software.

Wrong again. You say RMS would be just another guy programming.... Dude, that guy is a freaking genius! Linus and Gates combined couldn't do half the work he did! And one interesting point is this: he looked better and behaved better and expressed himself better back in the days he spent time hacking. Now he is trying to do something that is not him, he is forcing himself to do something he feels is necessary but he really is not the right person for it. If he was coding, if he had kept coding while fighting for licenses and giving speeches... I will tell you this... probably we would have GNU/Hurd running by now. RMS is not just another guy programming, he is THE HACKER! He could make a difference in the coding side of things.

> Contrary to what you write, users do not know what "Linux" is. Most of them think it is a whole operating system created by Linus Torvalds.

Funny... No one I have ever talked to (that is a "regular windows user") knows who Linus Torvalds is. And they really think that all software in Linux is free (they don't know that there are proprietary softwares there). So, maybe that is not entirely true.

Magic Banana

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/24/2010

I did not say that the choice of a micro-kernel did not raise hard problems (that could not be foreseen when the architecture was chose). I say the effort on the HURD would not have been reduced if there were no free software alternative. In fact, the HURD would not have even started if Linux were already available (under a free software license) when the HURD project started. It is all written there:

If we did face the question that people ask---if Linux were already available, and we were considering whether to start writing another kernel---we would not do it. Instead we would choose another project, something to do a job that no existing free software can do.

Stallman is an exceptional programmer. No doubt about that. Notice however that he stated numerous times that he thinks he is not as good as he used to be. He thinks that, today, he is much more useful as a speaker rather as a programmer. I agree with him. I do not think any other free software advocate come even close to him when it comes to making users realize they deserve freedoms. And, again, that is the main problem the free software movement is facing. Not an insufficient amount of technical work.

Notice that, if rms would be still programming, he would hack on Emacs. Like he used to do before quitting. Since Linux exists, rms does not consider the HURD as a high-priority project. He would certainly not work on it. The quote above actually is from rms himself. If you want a more recent one, here it is:

What I think about the HURD is that finishing it is not crucial.
When we started the HURD, it was for a simple reason. The GNU system needed a kernel, and no usable free kernel existed. We set out to write one.
That problem does not exist today. Linux works ok as a kernel.

andrew
Offline
Iscritto: 04/19/2012

On 26/08/13 07:53, gnuser wrote:
>> The FSF did not gave up on HURD "just because it's too hard" but
> because the Linux kernel, distributed under the GNU GPL, was there to
> fill the gap. Notice, for instance, that that the GNU project never
> started a window system because the X window system, distributed
> under a free software license, was there to fill the gap.
>
> Wrong. They started working on Hurd as a microkernel because it was
> better than a monolithic kernel, and they couldn't get it done even
> though they started it in the 80s. Linus was able to make Linux
> faster because he did it monolithic and also because he just did the
> basic system, then other people started adding things. While it is
> true that they gave up on Hurd because they already had Linux
> available, the real point here is that Hurd is HARD AS HELL TO PUT
> TO WORK! They stopped it because it was too hard, they couldn't get
> it done. Debian team has done a wonderful job with adding it to
> their system, and I believe one day we will have GNU/Hurd up and
> running.

Well, it's not entirely stopped. The Hurd project is still active:
https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/index.html

But you have to understand that, pre-Linux, GNU developers were hacking
their software on the proprietary Unix system. RMS always said that the
only justification for using Unix was that they were actively producing
a free replacement for it. Once a free replacement for the kernel was
completed, they migrated to it.

The reason why the FSF isn't paying developers to work on the Hurd
anymore is because there are other high priority projects[1] and more
important projects to work on. We have free distros like Trisquel
GNU/Linux which are free, and there are currently a lot of reasons why
people aren't switching. Proprietary firmware is one of them. But I
don't think the potential long-term benefits offered by the Hurd are so
urgent.

It would be nice if the Hurd became more stable (it is becoming more
stable every year, apparently), but not necessary IMHO.

1: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

I have to admit that I feel uncertain about how necessary Hurd is. It's true we have Linux-Libre, but things could change, and having Hurd could provide a solution for that. On the other hand, as you know I take security as a big deal, free software should be secure, so with GNU/Linux becoming more susceptible to attacks, making the transition to Hurd could put the race in our favor again.

Hurd will become a stable usable Kernel, but thanks to Debian. Which is ironic, since FSF refuses to acknowledge and support Debian as a free operating system. But maybe that would be a step forward to change that =)

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

In terms of security what you actually should want is something like Linux, which has been banged upon time and again and already have very powerful extentions for locking a system down.
New = Unproven, and as such has a habit of being the enemy of security.
Unless you're talking about security through obscurity, which is no security at all.

..Of course, this is all moot, because the people who really care about security issues are frolicking over in the OpenBSD countryside.
But you'll never find them, 'cause they know how to configure their firewalls.

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

I am in a hurry right now, but just wanted to clarify some things.
5 years ago I would agree with you. However, nowadays LInux has been receiving more and more attacks, and while I think we should try to improve linux, I also think that moving to Hurd MIGHT prove to be a more wiser decision in the long run (10 or 20 years from now).
Of course, as of now Hurd is not an example of security. But it has some interesting ideas and it could prove to be better in the long run.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

...Yes, that is kinda my point.. It's being battlehardened. Which is a good thing. The Hurd is more or less completely unproven. ..But sure, who knows what the fuck will happen over the next 20 years.

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

One of the reasons why I appreciate a project like Debian, who are trying to work with every available material =)
kfreebsd, hurd, linux, they are trying to use everything, which might prove to be the best option when we have the need to chose one or the other =)
As of now, I stick with Debian Stable of course.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Hear hear.
And nice as stability is, think we can all agree that some bleeding edge instability is fun too. =p

andrew
Offline
Iscritto: 04/19/2012

On 26/08/13 21:54, erikthorsen wrote:
> In terms of security what you actually should want is something like
> Linux, which has been banged upon time and again and already have
> very powerful extentions for locking a system down.

Microkernels can apparently, at least in theory, be better for security
because more is in userspace (userspace = memory protection, modular
design).

Andrew.

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

You still fail to understand that it was the GNU team (especially RMS) intellectual superiority that allowed Linux to exist. If they had choosen a more simple design for their kernel, they would have finished it years before linus even knew how to type his name. BUT, because they couldn't get it in time they chose to stick with what worked better. Now, if Hurd was not so difficult, make no mistake, when push comes to shove, they would have ended it so that they could ditch Linux. They never wanted to have Linux taking over the whole freedom issue. They only accepted it because they couldn't do anything about it. And we can only hope that one day we are not forced to choose between hurd (in any state of development that it is at the time) or linux with blobs. Keep in mind that free software is an enemy of the control state, and they will do everything they can to crush us. Laws will soon be changed in ways that you and I will be forced to accept blobs in linux kernel. You will probably laugh at this now, but wait a few years.... It will happen.

As for RMS, he has gone nuts already, because he stopped coding. If he had not stopped, he would be a much more valuable supporter of the movement. Seriously, they guy has gone nuts in public speeches already! That's why he said that.

But oh well... believe whatever you want.

Hurd would be welcome... it WILL be welcome when Debian team gets it ready. We should be able to chose not only the system but also the kernel! =)

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

They just ended up using Linux because they were stuck between a rock and a Hurd place. ..Well, a non-working, way too complex and cumbersome kernel design.
Not sure I'd call that intellectual superiority, but okay, to each his own heavily annotated dictionary.

Yes, and they'll have to keep accepting 'cause they still can't do anything about it.
..Well. Suppose they could slip in a BSD kernel like in the Debian/kFreeBSD project.. But what the hell would be the point.

Either way, I'd postulate that we at least shouldn't bitch so much about it, considering Linux itself is free software under the GPL, has had an immense amount of work put into making it as good as it is, and there's a cool script that strips out the firmware blobs it's often bundled with. (Although the destinction between a firmware blob being uploaded and being burned on a rom is somewhat shady to my mind.)

RMS was nuts to begin with, kinda had to be to start the whole project. =p But yeah.. Would probably be better if he kept coding instead of blogging about pedophilia being perfectly okay. Then again, every movement needs their crazy bearded prophets doing speeches and stuff, so I say good on him for stepping up to the plate.

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

> Would probably be better if he kept coding instead of blogging about pedophilia being perfectly okay.

Again, you should really stop spreading FUD.
He never said pedophilia is ok in general.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

He said it was okay so long as nobody was coerced. I'm sorry, that's just never "ok".
Although I suppose the really disturbing part is that people like you keep defending it.

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

> He said it was okay so long as nobody was coerced. I'm sorry, that's just never "ok".

That's right, his statement means actually that almost no case of pedophilia is ok like they happen.

> Although I suppose the really disturbing part is that people like you keep defending it.

I think you just don't have your emotions under control when we're talking about this topic.
I'm against any form of doing harm to children and in my opinion, pedophilia should be forbidden because we can never be sure if a child gets coerced or not;
but people like you are the reason why we can't even type the word pedophilia without the fear of being accused of being pedophil;
RMS made a sensible statement which doesn't include anything problematic but you can't accept anybody talking about the subject in a less emotional way.
I don't think rms is a pedophile or at least this statement doesn't give any hint for this.
I'm against an atmosphere of fear and restriction of speech when talking about *any* subject.

This is like in Germany. You can be famous for being an ultra-communist, but when you mention the word "hitler" and forget to mention giving tribute to emotions of people by adding words like "terrible, devil, worst on earth" people will suspect you being a nazi though you didn't say anything in this direction.

That's the same what happens to rms for his statement, even to me for just defending what he said.

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

Hum... I know it's weird for me to be the one who says this, but c'mon guys calm down... No one here is supportive of hurting people (kids or not) and certainly some people are more sensitive to this subject than others. Which is not wrong, because we all have different backgrounds and it's not wrong to be over protective in some aspects.
RMS did say some things pretty... out of normal, over the years. And maybe he regrets some things he said, maybe he didn't mean them, OR maybe he does have a "wrong" point of view in some things, but still we shouldn't mix things (he did a wonderful work in favor of freeing the people from corporations control with GNU for example).
C'mon people, even I find pedo accusations and arguments over it to be extreme, so... =)
Having said that, each is entitled to his own opinion of course. And to express himself freely. At least until the US decides to change that xD

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

"Hum... I know it's weird for me to be the one who says this, but c'mon guys calm down..."

lol this has a kind of humour ;)
and I guess you're right, those are stupid arguments.
Anyway, I don't think rms says many "weird" things. He just thinks very freely and without social or psychological boundaries, and he talks just the same way.
He doesn't give a shit how people deal with his messages; should he be more sensitive? I don't know; maybe a little bit.
But his attitude is way better than those of some politicians who just say what people want to hear.

> C'mon people, even I find pedo accusations and arguments over it to be extreme, so... =)

That's true, but ... look at how our last piracy disussion escalated... it was a bit extreme too.
I don't want to come up with all of this, just want to point out that I don't "want you to leave" how you said somewhere; I just want not to be insulted, that's all. And I understand if you are a bit more sensitiv to this topic because of somewhat, I really do. But I think if we manage to have a calm discussion about pedophilia, we also can do it with piracy and other things, can't we?

GNUser
Offline
Iscritto: 07/17/2013

Well, time will tell :P
For now, we actually happen to agree on two different threads, so that's good enough.
As for piracy... hey, you already use the proper word (:P) so I guess we could try. Even if I think we both have way too different opinion on this. I consider that "authorship rights" should be respected. And I know that the fact that piracy was so disseminated over the years actually helped to make the internet a "worse" place in the sense that now even if you download a public domain movie, people will say "that's piracy you downloaded it from the net". So... I can't really have much sympathy for the whole "sharing" motto being misused (as I can't look at piracy as sharing).
You (and others) think that sharing should have no barriers what so ever. Maybe if your views and ideas would make it into the politic world, we could, in 10 or 20 yeas from now, actually have a better society than we have now. But trying to live that way in the current society ends up being... bad in some ways. Even if in some ways, a reform of society would be good, the methods might not (note the might) be the best.

Anyway, let's not go off topic here, I was only trying to put things in a more "common ground". If we both try to tolerate the other's views, we could have a more sane environment here.
See you around.

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

"For now, we actually happen to agree on two different threads, so that's good enough."

I think we can co-exist even if we don't agree on a single topic. I don't judge anyone by counting how often he disagrees with me.
Most important is that I'm not disagreeing with anyone because I want to treat him bad but because I want to state my opinion.
I disagree with *anyone* if it's neccessary two, twenty or two-hundred times; still don't have a problem with him.
Don't take those things personally.

> If we both try to tolerate the other's views, we could have a more sane environment here.

+1

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Okay look. Not saying RMS is a pedo. Not saying he or you or anyone else is not entitled to their opinions about things.
Merely that from a public relations point of view, as a "spokesperson" for the FSF and the free software movement, it's just not a good idea to say that kind of stuff.

And suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree when it comes to the sensibility of what he said, that's a bit of a side issue here.

But to the point, remember the episode of the Linux Action Show with the RMS interview? What's the first thing they brought up in the follow up episode? Oh right, he's a pedo and he hates children. Great, let's forget everything he said and get back to our Ubuntu Linux boxes, shall we?
Which is more or less what you get when you imply that pedophilia can be perfectly okay and that we shouldn't have kids. Nobody wins.

Obviously everybody *should* have the right to speak their mind on whatever subject, but that doesn't mean it's always very *wise* to.

As for Hitler, he had a nice mustache. And the commies killed far more people than the nazis, in case anyone's keeping score. =x

quiliro@congresolibre.org
Offline
Iscritto: 10/28/2010

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

El 27/08/13 07:14, name at domain escribió:
>
> As for Hitler, he had a nice mustache. And the commies killed far more
people than the nazis, in case anyone's keeping score. =x
>

I think that the US has the World record
http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm

- --
Saludos libres,

Quiliro Ordóñez
Presidente (en co-gobierno con los socios)
Asociación de Software Libre del Ecuador - ASLE
6008579

Recuerda que todas tus comunicaciones están siendo vigiladas. Lo que
puedes hacer para restar su eficacia es eliminar el software privativo
de tus computadores, evitar el software como servicio, almacenar tus
datos en tus propios equipos y encriptar todas tus comunicaciones.

Toda la información contenida en este mensaje es libre de uso y
distribución con o sin modificaciones y todo correo que reciba implica
que el remitente acepta que tendrá las mismas libertades sin importar
cualquier clausula de confidencialidad o restricción anterior o posterior.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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=nmQj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

What, 20 to 30 million? That's by my counting less than half what WW2 took and substantially less than the far above 100 million deaths communism is responsible for.

And quite frankly, there's a slight difference between wars and just plain wholesale slaughter of your own people.

That being said, think you have the record for most unneccesarily long signature on the Trisquel forums.. XD

Bertel

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 08/30/2010

"That being said, think you have the record for most unneccesarily long signature on the Trisquel forums.. XD"

So what??

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

...So... Nothing? Just found it funny how long it was. x) And we were somewhat on the topic of records.

quiliro@congresolibre.org
Offline
Iscritto: 10/28/2010

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

El 27/08/13 16:40, name at domain escribió:
> What, 20 to 30 million? That's by my counting less than half what WW2 took and far less than the far
above 100 million deaths communism is responsible for.

That is no releif. Link?

> That being said, think you have the record for most unneccesarily long signature on the Trisquel
forums.. XD

Thank you!

- --
Saludos libres,

Quiliro Ordóñez
Presidente (en co-gobierno con los socios)
Asociación de Software Libre del Ecuador - ASLE
6008579

Recuerda que todas tus comunicaciones están siendo vigiladas. Lo que
puedes hacer para restar su eficacia es eliminar el software privativo
de tus computadores, evitar el software como servicio, almacenar tus
datos en tus propios equipos y encriptar todas tus comunicaciones.

Toda la información contenida en este mensaje es libre de uso y
distribución con o sin modificaciones y todo correo que reciba implica
que el remitente acepta que tendrá las mismas libertades sin importar
cualquier clausula de confidencialidad o restricción anterior o posterior.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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=eEo6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Relief or not, I'd argue that historically the US more often than not was on the "right" side of conflicts, in so far as a right side exist in war.
And again, they didn't engage in wholesale genocidal slaughter.
..Admittedly that's been a-changin' in the last decade, the US now is more or less a de facto fascist dictatorship run by a motly assortment of war criminals and douchebags.. So keep in mind I'm only talking about historical stuff here.

As for the commies, the big (literally) book is the Black Book of Communism, which estimates around 94 million, although some later authors estimate as high as 144 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_communist_party_rule#Loss_of_life

islander
Offline
Iscritto: 05/28/2013

Long live "glos" - GNU/Linux operating systems. I currently use Tri-glos, but in the past have used Deb-glos, Ubu-glos, Min-glos, Gne-glos, etc. Glos IT so we can move on with our lives!

Some understand the differences in word usage, some do not. To expand technology freedom, we should probably just accept and encourage all of them. This is a Level 1 freedom. :)

Take for example Doc's article on 'ipconfig'. He did not mention GNU, but that is okay!
www.softpanorama.org/Net/Netutils/ifconfig_in_linux.shtml

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

OMG I just saw the episode of the linux action show after the rms interview for the first time and I just can't believe what I've heard.
They felt so extremly clever and self confident trying to point out logical mistakes in richard stallmans view and acted so dumb and stupid, it was really ridiculous.

I've no problem with people not being able to understand a thing.
But these guys not understanding a thing and feeling so clever really piss me off.

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

While you're at it, maybe you should look up what they said when linux-libre first showed up. =p

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

I just saw the trisquel review of the las and decided not to watch one single episode of this shit anymore....

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Yes, well. Most people do dislike when someone disagrees with their deeply rooted viewpoints.
..Although just for the record, what was objectionable about the Trisquel review? Don't recall them saying anything particularly bad it.. =/

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

"Most people do dislike when someone disagrees with their deeply rooted viewpoints."

It's not because they disagree with me, it's because of their lack of information and their very poor arguments.

They said positive things about the practical features of trisquel but mentioned all the time how they can't figure out who wants to use trisquel, since there is no flash and it "can't play mp3", which is simply wrong.
Then they mentioned "a computer manufacturer who builds pcs with trisquel on it", I think they talked about Chris.
Their opinion was: in this special case, they can understand the use of trisquel very well, since this manufacturer doesn't have to worry about licensing and software patents grace to the use of trisquel.
Complete disinformation....

dudeski

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 07/03/2013

Well yeah, practical features is after all why people use computers in the first place.

Fair points, very fair points. Well, hopefully bad press is better than no press. =p

dadix
Offline
Iscritto: 07/01/2013

Gnu-hurd debian version in action tested in June 2013 (not QEMU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3feW-ldkc5Q

quiliro@congresolibre.org
Offline
Iscritto: 10/28/2010

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

El 28/08/13 04:59, name at domain escribió:
> Gnu-hurd debian version in action:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3feW-ldkc5Q

Thank you!

I opened it on Abrowser and it would need gnash. But by using Flashgot I
can see the webm version is available. I have html5 activated on
Youtube. Why doesn't Youtube notice this?

- --
Saludos libres,

Quiliro Ordóñez
Presidente (en co-gobierno con los socios)
Asociación de Software Libre del Ecuador - ASLE
6008579

Recuerda que todas tus comunicaciones están siendo vigiladas. Lo que
puedes hacer para restar su eficacia es eliminar el software privativo
de tus computadores, evitar el software como servicio, almacenar tus
datos en tus propios equipos y encriptar todas tus comunicaciones.

Toda la información contenida en este mensaje es libre de uso y
distribución con o sin modificaciones y todo correo que reciba implica
que el remitente acepta que tendrá las mismas libertades sin importar
cualquier clausula de confidencialidad o restricción anterior o posterior.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
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=99sV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

oh it's in german!
thank you, very interesting.

megurineturilli
Offline
Iscritto: 01/10/2012

I found this one: http://archive.org/details/SamuelThibaultOnGnuHurd

GNU Hurd should provide extensibiltity from the ground. But many things (such as sound) are not yet implemented yet. The Hurd uses the GNU Mach kernel, which still uses Linux 2.0 drivers. The only way to get SMP, ACPI, sound, 64 bit is to run it side by side with GNU/Linux-Libre using xen.