i3wm on a Trisquel 7 and dual screen issue + intro
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Hi everyone,
I'm a new owner of a libreboot X200, and I'm reading through the debian book for weeks now (plus other related things on the web).
I use it with an external screen.
I'm planning on setting up a netinstall, but at my skills level, it's a bit too soon.
I gave up on the idea of Parabola, because I do not want to spend that much time on system maintenance.
I gave up on Debian because I do not want to spend time on filtering packages, though allegedly it's ok to use the free repo only. But maybe if I install something out of the repo (from a random website), it might take more time/knowledge. Essentially, if I get skilled enough so these are no more issues, then I'll reconsider. But I doubt I will reconsider. I just want a system that works so I can actually use it to do actual WORK on it.
So yeah, Trisquel netinstall when I feel I have enough basics knowledge is my goal.
First, I have to say that I'm quite pleased.
Well, ok, icecat prevents me from accessing some webpages (random example, some from imgur and all of gyfcat), and a few other minor bugs or lacking things that I could expect from a user friendly distro, but overall, no big deal for now.
Gnome panel let me down though : I accidentally turned it off, and now I have to launch it every time I log in.
So I installed i3. Simpler than Openbox and keyboard friendly. But for some reason, there's no way to use the gnome display settings.
So essentially, I'm stuck with a copy of the display on the laptop, plus the wallpaper covering the whole screen in the background.
I'll post a screenshot and the error message I get from the gnome display settings as son as I can.
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I have very broad questions about Gnu/Linux and I have a hard time finding precise answers, is it ok to ask them here ?
Example : There is the disk encryption password (first prompt), the root/user password (I don't get the difference, but this info I can find easily), the LVM password... I think at least a minimum of three passwords is required. Strong passwords are supposed to be 40+ characters. How can I remember 3 of those ? isn't that overkill ? Or am I being lazy ? Can I use less characters for one of these, and why ?
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About why I'm here :
I started learning networks and stuff, so I came across Linux. And Crunchbang, which I really liked.
Openbox was very fast, very smart. I was hooked. Then, I don't remember how really, I became interested in privacy.
I have not much, or nothing to hide, so it's not like it's a big issue for me. I can understand most people that I know who don't give a shit about it. Stolen bank account data ? so what ? There are laws, who cares ?
I understand that it's an issue when it comes to living in another country (I'm in France).
It's just that such a sneaky, imposed behavior from hard and software companies pisses me off.
I just can't stand being played. So the least I could do is pay back by annoying them/not giving them free access to my data.
So yeah, I'm just petty :)
But seriously, I also enjoy the idea of building a custom, light, super fast system, with free software that doesn't stop amazing me. Krita is fantastic, for example.
I still plan to keep non free machines around, for work skills, but the faster I can ditch them, the better.
I am a translator!
what do you mean by "allegedly it is ok to use main repo.."? By default debian is 100% free software. You have to opt-in to screw it up (by screw it up I mean installing any kind of proprietary nonsense)!
By "accessing some pages" with icecat you mean that you don't see the page displayed correctly (i.e - the pictures are missing) - if so, you must have set it up to run in private mode. When in private mode Icecat's addon spyblock will block any and every third party request.
See if this post can help you with the lost panel - https://trisquel.info/en/forum/gnome-panel-lost
You can install several DEs in trisquel (xfce for instance)
As far as I know (I may be wrong) a strong password is at least 12 characters with mixed letters and numbers and special characters like ° # @ é * etc and also some of the letters should be uppercase.. ex-> Ct4nX40@!yQe
But being paranoid and having also read that a really strong password should have 20 or 21 letters I use a 21 characters password :)
40 characters is madness!!
Welcome to the community!
Welcome to Trisquel!
I did not quite understand what desktop environment or what window manager has your preference. Whatever it is, there is a package for it in the repository and you will have the option to choose it at login (in lightdm, Trisquel's default display manager, click on the icon close to your user name).
That said, you do not seem to really know what you are doing (what do you mean by "I accidentally turned [Gnome] off, and now I have to launch it every time I log in"?) and it may be easier to just backup your data and reinstall from the Live system.
---
Passwords do not need to be that long and they can be easy to remember. See this post for a way to randomly generate such passwords: https://trisquel.info/forum/new-user-root-password-problems#comment-62018
Little below, the explanations (with the math) as why they are safe enough: https://trisquel.info/forum/new-user-root-password-problems#comment-62070
"But for some reason, there's no way to use the gnome display settings."
Don't really know if it helps, but try to add
exec gnome-settings-daemon
to your .i3/config
and restart.
Ok
first, thank you all for such a warm welcome :D !
second, quantumgravity, it worked like a charm, thank you.
Plus now I understand that I can launch daemons from config files too.
Cool.
The error message should have been a good clue:
"Failed to apply configuration: %s
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
org.gnome.SettingsDaemon was not provided by any .service files"
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SuperTramp83, thanks for the password tips.
Regarding IceCat in private mode, how come it filters only some of imgur
pages?
I suppose it's the way the image is sent, I dunno.
Regarding Debian, then what's the difference with Trisquel? Ok, it's
based on Ubuntu.
Then Compared with GnewSense? I know this distro has a full list of
de-blobed programs.
Is that actually pointless?
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Magic Banana, thanks for the math demo :)
I don't really care for a DE.
I enjoyed Openbox, and now i3, as WMs are lighter, and those are smartly
designed. I try to go mouseless, even if I have to make several configs
from scratch.
Unfortunately, I can't remember what I did to mess Gnome panel up this
time. Fortunately, I don't need it.
I kinda like i3 on top of Gnome, it's a good start.
Now I need to get used to the keyboard navigation (and activate it in
IceCat),
then configure i3 properly.
The HHD is sometimes wheezing though, so a netinstall on an SSD would be great. It's the next big goal.
I guess I should try it on Quemu first. I was used to Virtualbox, oh well (I've read the thread about that).
The 2 most weird things I encounter on Gnu/Linux systems (well,
Crunchbang at least, which is minimalist) is the capslock never working
for the numbers row,
and unmounting external HHD not really working, unless I do it through
the terminal (tried with Thunar and PCmanFm).
But hey, as annoying as these are, it's a good learning opportunity!
I really like Trisquel's default programs selection: simple, streamlined, a good base.
"Regarding Debian, then what's the difference with Trisquel? Ok, it's
based on Ubuntu.
Then Compared with GnewSense? I know this distro has a full list of
de-blobed programs.
Is that actually pointless?"
Naah it's not really pointless.
First, let me talk about Debian, the operating system (not the Debian project).
If you only use the main repo, it's true that it's not much different to gnewsense (though gnewsense is normally quite outdated, so the current debian stable release will be more up to date) but there are some free programs that endorse non-free add-ons.
Afaik, iceweasel (Debians version of firefox) does that; or think of add-ons for kde... stuff like that!
So gnewsense would be safer from a freedom perspective, but you can use debian in freedom, if you watch out (or don't install any add-ons).
Now, the Debian project is hosting the non-free repos and offering it to the users;
it's a very controversal topic and often discussed in this forum, but in general, people here consider this unethical.
Also, some people say that the debian installer sometimes suggests the installation of non-free software if it's required for the hardware to function; maybe this has changed though, and i never experienced it myself.
So, it's up to you what you think about this.
Anyway, most important thing is that you run only free software on your computer.
I am a translator!
quantum - debian wheezy never suggested to install the non-free firmware required by the ati-crap in my lappy. I guess they fixed that..
But iceweasel on a fresh install after visiting some websites suggested the installation of flash-player! :(
In debian if you choose the 'expert install' option you have the possibility to enable the contrib and non-free repos.
I am a translator!
yes. And when you install debian (whatever installation method you followed) you can always enable those 2 non-free repos. But you have to do it by yourself (opt-in). The real issue with Debian is that you need to double-check any addon and software you install (other than those contained in the main repo) but that applies to all distros - you should alway check the license/licenses..
cheers!
Wait,
if Debian isn't less free than Trisquel, then using Trisquel is kind of
pointless, besides being more frequently updated (being Ubuntu based).
The question is: is it really as free?
What would be the point of working so hard on GnewSense then?
And, I thought Trisquel actually prevents non-free programs installation
(maybe I'm extrapolating on this one).
If I have to watch out for nfp (non free programs) as much as on Debian,
then what's the point?
Trisquel and gNewSense meet the Free System Distribution Guidelines: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html
Debian does not because mainly the project hosts and suggest the use (in its documentation for instance) of the "contrib" and the "non-free" repositories.
The developers behind Trisquel and gNewSense spend much effort in fixing and repackaging programs that do not meet the "Free System Distribution Guidelines" (for instance because they recommend the use of proprietary software): https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines
And, I thought Trisquel actually prevents non-free programs installation.
That would mean implementing DRMs, an obvious attack on freedom 0!
Ok, so it's all about Debian "only" recommending non-free software.
SuperTramp83's comment sounded like either way, you better check what you install,
which essentially means to me that from a user's point of view, there's no difference.
Maybe less checking, but either I check everything or I don't at all.
Please note that English isn't my first language, so I could be misunderstanding the message.
For example, Trisquel not suggesting vs preventing installation is completely different ^^"
I mean is Debian free repo clean and without worry?
In that case maybe we're simply talking about packages installed from websites.
But, if Debian's free repo is without worry, then... ARRGH!!! OK, let's be methodical. Here are the things I found interesting on the gNewSense list:
texlive-extra:Removed non-free file and support for non-free fonts.
openoffice.org:Removed non-free scandoc.pl.
linux-2.6:Deblobbed
kdenetwork:Disabled Skype plugin.
fop:The original HP RGB Color Space Profile is non-free. It has been replaced by an equivalent free ICM file from Argyll CMS.
bacula:Use a free SHA-1 implementation.
debian-installer-launcher
Mofix debian-installer-launcher:fix preseeding
The most problematic are the kernel (I believe it's been fixed since),
openoffice (that's what libreoffice is for, but for new users it's a problem)
The other stuff is easily avoided by not using that. And if it's a must, either there's a fix, or an alternative.
So, besides the non-free recommendations, is Debian's free repo fine or not?
If so, it's only about ignoring Debian's suggestions and using it as you intended.
But I'd rather not have to do that of course, hence Trisquel.
Actually you have already been told, but anyway:
Debian:
-main repository consists of 100% free software, also the kernel is free of firmware blobs since Debian squeeze. However, some packages in the main repository _might suggest the installation of additional, non-free software_ like add-ons
- The Debian project hosts non-free repositories
Trisquel:
- repository and kernel consists of 100% free software; _no_ package suggests the installation of non-free software, like add-ons or plugins.
- the trisquel project isn't involved at all with non-free software.
If you stick to the main repos, you don't have to check the packages, neither on trisquel nor on debian.
If you use debian, you have to check the license of add-ons you might want to install in certain programs like the webbrowser and you use the operating system of a project that hosts non-free repos, which takes away people's freedom.
Neither debian nor trisquel prevent you from installing non-free software on your own (which you might have downloaded somewhere) but the repos are clean (only the main repo, in case of debian).
Ok, thanks for the precision.
In summary, both are ok from an informed user's point of view,
But Trisquel is more solid when it comes to suggested default add-ons.
Politics aside, one is more usable in a pro environment (better hardware support), the other has zero non-free suggestions.
So yeah, no reason to bother with Debian unless Trisquel stops.
one is more usable in a pro environment (better hardware support), the other has zero non-free suggestions.
Since February 2011, Debian's kernel has not been including proprietary blobs, which is good. As a consequence, for a same upstream version of Linux, I see no reason why the hardware support would be different. In fact, I even think Trisquel packages some free Wifi drivers that Debian does not have (expecting the user to prefer the proprietary driver in "non-free"?).
That said, Debian and Trisquel have different versions of the kernel... and Trisquel's usually is higher, hence the support for more recent hardware. Trisquel currently ships with version 3.13, whereas Debian stable has Linux 3.2. And version 3.16 is in Trisquel's default repository too. And upgrading Trisquel's kernel to the latest version is very easy thanks to jxself's repository: https://trisquel.info/wiki/update-linux-libre-kernel
This sounds great !!! Thanks for the info, Magic Banana :)
h-node is still a good ressource to check, since sometimes non-free drivers are unavoidable (that's what I meant by Debian providing more hardware support).
"I thought Trisquel actually prevents non-free programs installation"
Such a system wouldn't be free software, since it's up to the user what software install and run. Sometimes installing non-free software may be useful for the community, as explain in https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.en.html
"The Free Software Foundation follows the rule that we cannot install any proprietary program on our computers except temporarily for the specific purpose of writing a free replacement for that very program. Aside from that, we feel there is no possible excuse for installing a proprietary program.
For example, we felt justified in installing Unix on our computer in the 1980s, because we were using it to write a free replacement for Unix. Nowadays, since free operating systems are available, the excuse is no longer applicable;"
Interesting, I was wondering about that. I suppose a sandboxed environment like a virtual machine is the best.
Ah I see...
I understand Debian's posture since it's supposed to be used in pro environments too,
so hardware compatibility is a must.
For my personal use, I just don't want to spend time watching out for every single thing I install,
unless I have a fullproof method. There's a thread on this forum that suggests reading the release notes of every package/dependency.
That's a lot of time I want to use on something else.
Plus I have no real incentive to use Debian since Trisquel does more than the job.
But it's good to know that there's a possible plan B.
With a lot of care though. Even the kernel seems "compromised" :
http://www.gnewsense.org/Documentation/3/DifferencesWithDebian
I am a translator!
quantum gravity has excellently explained the situation of both trisq and deb!
I have been usin Trisquel 7 on a netbook with a tiny screen (was giong blind .. hehe) for almost 6 months. Now I have a laptop with ati crap graphics and being that this setup gave me several issues with Trisquel I use Wheezy default (only main repo) -> the switch was really easy and the six months with Trisquel have thought me everything I now know about free software and how to avoid completely non-free software so..for me using debian and making sure that no 1 bit of proprietary nonsense gets installed is very simple because I installed on debian the exact same applications I had on Trisquel (addons inlcuded). The very few different programs I installed, like, say peerflix, I double checked the licenses before installing/compiling and that's all - no brainer.
But really, in any case you should use Trisquel because it is a great distro and also because it will teach you how to use your computer in freedom!
cheers!
Ah yes, I didn't take into account hardware support. But how come Debian with the free repo only supports your laptop whereas Trisquel doesn't?
Does that mean that you used a non-free blob or driver only for ATI graphics support?
I am a translator!
wheezy (Debian 7) comes with an older kernel and that kernel doesn't require the non-free firmware to display the native screen resolution with the ati graphics card. Same goes for Trisquel 6. But Trisquel 7 and Debian Jessie (which will be soon the new stable release of debian) ship a new kernel and that kernel requires a proprietary firmware to be enabled for my graphics card to achieve the native resolution. I installed Debian Jessie (Debian 8) on a USB key just to try it and try to modify some things in order to have the proper resolution but to no avail. I went to the debian irc chanel and several dudes told me that there is no way around it and that I need a non-free package for it to work properly..
:(
(To SuperTramp83) Man that sucks, I hope it will be figured out at some point.
I am a translator!
I've read on a forum a post by a guy who claimed to work for ATI and he was very "normal, experienced and serious" so I think he wasn't making it up - He said that ati doesn't want to free its firmware because that would put at risk their work related to windose drivers - they need to keep those drivers proprietary and can't reveal the code because of DRM and the fact that releasing the microcode meaningfully as open source would require releasing the design of the hardware in enough detail that other companies could easily clone it...
So..no..I guess ati crap will stay crappy..
Buy laptops with intel graphics!
cheers!
I remember reading such forum posts from John Bridgman several years
ago.
The argument assumes that no one can reverse engineer that firmware.
This is false: Nouveau developers replaced much firmware with other
custom instruction sets, and found security issues in NVIDIA's firmware.
At least some of AMD firmwares are easy to reverse engineer, just no
volunteer has both skills and time to do it: this wouldn't be a problem
for AMD's competitors who could just hire someone. There is a similar
excuse regarding patents debunked at
http://libv.livejournal.com/2014/07/16/ (see the paragraph on AMD
drivers too).
I am a translator!
Michal. That's true. But I would say that above all the argument assumes that all ati cares about is keep doing a lot of money..
cheers!
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