My wifi card that isn't supported.

35 risposte [Ultimo contenuto]
pogiako12345
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Iscritto: 07/11/2014

So does that mean I will never have support? Because my wireless is fully non-free? Or at least I think I do.

onpon4
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Iscritto: 05/30/2012

Reverse-engineering is possible, but don't hold your breath. If you can't reverse-engineer it yourself, your best bet is to get a new wireless card or USB wireless adapter that works with libre software today. Think Penguin[1] is a good store to buy those from.

[1] https://libre.thinkpenguin.com

tct
tct

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Iscritto: 10/23/2011

On 23.07.2014 22:02, name at domain wrote:
> wireless card or USB wireless adapter that works with libre software
> today. Think Penguin[1] is a good store to buy those from.
>
> [1] https://libre.thinkpenguin.com

FSF endorses two small freedom-respecting USB wireless adapters,
TPE-N150USB from ThinkPenguin (link above) and TET-N150 from Tehnoetic
(link below).

https://tehnoetic.com/tehnoetic-wireless-adapter-gnu-linux-libre-tet-n150

The offers are comparable. While Chris, the owner of ThinkPenguin
donates to Trisquel a part of the profits the libre link provides, with
a history of about a year practicing high prices (read double) for this
Atheros based adapter, I have a history of 6 years funding free software
movement in Romania and the foundation called Fundația Ceata.

http://ceata.org

Among our activities is promoting and teaching others how to use free
distributions like Trisquel.

https://albume.ceata.org/picture.php?/165/category/16

https://albume.ceata.org/picture.php?/2616/category/113

https://liste.ceata.org/pipermail/ceata-trisquel/

http://fii-liber.ro/content/instalarea-distribu%C8%9Biei-trisquel-gnulinux-50-actualizarea-sistemului-%C8%99i-instalarea-unui

https://fii-liber.ro/proiectul-trisquel-lanseaza-vesiunea-50-dagda

There are other Ceata activism projects you might find interesting like:

RMS talks at Ceata events:

http://www.fsf.org/@@search?Subject%3Alist=Funda%C8%9Bia%20Ceata

Ceata review of E-mail SelfDefense guide in Romanian:

https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/ro/

I only started a free software business because it's hard for me to
support my full-time not paid for work at the above mentioned nonprofit,
the foundation having just a few supporting members and no sponsors
which barely cover the costs of our server collocation.

https://ceata.org/membri/sus%C8%9Bin%C4%83tori.html

https://ceata.org/sponsori.html

So next time you tell new comers about freedom-respecting wifi adapters,
please make sure you include Tehnoetic, because it's my commercial
project to fund my work building a strong Romanian community around
Trisquel and other free distributions. Read more in FSF's press release:

http://www.fsf.org/news/tehnoetic-wireless-usb-adapter-now-fsf-certified-to-respect-your-freedom

If you feel this is not enough, consider that competition Tehnoetic
provided made ThinkPenguin cut the price to half and while ThinkPenguin
reports thousands of small wifi adapters being sold, I only sold less
than one hundred by now.

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Legimet
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Iscritto: 12/10/2013

There's a minor error on the Tehnoetic product page. It says "Both the driver and the firmware of this adapter are free under the GNU GPL v2 license." The firmware isn't under the GPL, it's under the Clear BSD license.

tct
tct

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Iscritto: 10/23/2011

On 24.07.2014 00:25, name at domain wrote:
> There's a minor error on the Tehnoetic product page. It says "Both the
> driver and the firmware of this adapter are free under the GNU GPL v2
> license." The firmware isn't under the GPL, it's under the Clear BSD
> license.

Thank you for reporting this. I have added to the description the
3-clause BSD license for the firmware.

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Legimet
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Iscritto: 12/10/2013

Well, it's actually Clear BSD, not the regular 3-clause BSD.
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#clearbsd

Chris

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Iscritto: 04/23/2011

I'm actually shocked how high your prices are! Your little adapter is 17x what I can get it for off eBay! [ everybody laugh ]

I'm just trying to point out how silly this is. Prices a year ago were higher than they are today and we've dropped them accordingly. Obviously the product offerings above are significantly different too. It's like comparing apples to oranges. With a $2 wifi adapter you don't actually expect the product to work, be supported, etc.

We set the price for the item your referring to YEARS ago. The costs have come down since then and we spent months testing the waters to figure out what volume would work to get the profit margins as thin as possible. As it stands I'd be surprised if you can withstand the competition from us. Not the other way around. And by that I mean your not making sufficient profit at this price point to make it worthwhile selling. At least not in small quantities.

What is most humorous about this competition thing is that it would appear you responded to us and not the other way around. My colleagues telling me you had set a much higher price originally and it was only that by the time you announced it we had dropped our prices. It was only then that you lowered yours.

Lastly I've been contributing to the free software world a lot longer than ThinkPenguin has been around. So have a lot of the people around here. We're all struggling to one degree or another. That's no excuse to be rude to one another. I'd have much rather worked with you than against you. I don't wish to bash your efforts, but when you so blatantly attack a project I've worked several years on it does get under my skin.

tct
tct

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Iscritto: 10/23/2011

On 25.07.2014 04:13, name at domain wrote:
> I'm actually shocked how high your prices are! Your little adapter is
> 17x what I can get it for off eBay! [ everybody laugh ]

I was decent in my previous post, but I see you are bulling me. I
expected more from you, Chris.

I am not aware of offerings on eBay of this device. And Tehnoetic
TET-N150, ThinkPenguin TP-N150USB and Unex DNUA-93F is exactly the same
device device (I acknowledge it's Unex DUNA-93F on my product page).

So my little adapter is your little adapter, is Unex's little adapter.
And I didn't buy it for $2, even in buk it costed me about the same
price you expect a wifi adapter to be available in resellers stores.
Although I bought it at this price from the manufacturer.

> I'm just trying to point out how silly this is. Prices a year ago were
> higher than they are today and we've dropped them accordingly. Obviously
> the product offerings above are significantly different too. It's like
> comparing apples to oranges. With a $2 wifi adapter you don't actually
> expect the product to work, be supported, etc.

Really, you are doing FUD?

> We set the price for the item your referring to YEARS ago. The costs
> have come down since then and we spent months testing the waters to
> figure out what volume would work to get the profit margins as thin as
> possible. As it stands I'd be surprised if you can withstand the
> competition from us.

I've noticed you were trying to put me out of business as soon as I
entered the market and applied for RYF. In a post on this forum, you
specifically pointed out that ThinkPenguin has cut the prices almost to
half and the offer is better than one can find at competition. I was the
competition you were referring to, because once FSF has announced the
RYF certification for Tehnoetic TET-N150, you asked them to update it so
it states ThinkPenguin ships to Europe as well.

> Not the other way around. And by that I mean your
> not making sufficient profit at this price point to make it worthwhile
> selling. At least not in small quantities.

You made enough profit last year to have the power to try to force me
out this year. But I will not quit, instead I am working on extending my
offer with other freedom-respecting devices under the Tehnoetic brand.

> What is most humorous about this competition thing is that it would
> appear you responded to us and not the other way around. My colleagues
> telling me you had set a much higher price originally and it was only
> that by the time you announced it we had dropped our prices. It was only
> then that you lowered yours.

That's incorrect. I started by having prices lower than you and
continued to adjust them so I can stay competitive. I payed 50 euros for
an adapter from you in December. (And it arrived in 30 days.) My initial
offer was 45 euros and shipping was included as it always have been for
Tehnoetic TET-N150.

For 1-year warranty, the cheapest shipping which can choose that can
take 6-10 ("to most destinations, may exceed 30") days, you get
ThinkPenguin TPE-N150USB for €24,5.

You get Thenoetic TET-N150 with 2-year warranty and shipping up to 5
days for €25.

If you choose air mail for a comparable shipping time of 1-5 days, you
get your ThinkPenguin TPE-N150USB for €31.

If you choose a longer warranty (you have only 3-year option left), you
get it for €35.

So is my Tehnoetic project small? Yes. Does it have better offer than
ThinkPenguin? Yes. In all cases above, my offer is better in at least
one regard (being that the warranty, the price, or fast air mail shipping).

> Lastly I've been contributing to the free software world a lot longer
> than ThinkPenguin has been around. So have a lot of the people around
> here. We're all struggling to one degree or another. That's no excuse to
> be rude to one another.

Excuse me? I only asked people to not forget Tehnoetic TET-N150 is also
RYF-certified, just becuase ThinkPenguin financially sponsors Trisquel,
when advicing new comers what wifi adapters they should buy to work with
free software. And if that's not enough, competition makes offers better
for users and I am still small having sold less than 100 devices and
need support.

> I'd have much rather worked with you than
> against you.

Of course you did, Chris. I didn't feel working with you, because I
didn't like the way you were doing business or your philosophy
(freedom-"friendly", nonfree BIOS, nonfree distros and you wanting to
become mainstream) and because I think independence is important and is
possible in the free software world we are building.

> I don't wish to bash your efforts, but when you so
> blatantly attack a project I've worked several years on it does get
> under my skin.

You have your feelings hurt because I told people the truth. And in
response you spread FUD ("$2 adapter", "x17 on eBay") and bullied me
("everybody laugh").

--
Tiberiu C. Turbureanu
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Telefon: +40-761-810-100
GPG: 8B51 53CB 354E 3049 FAE9 3260 F033 8452 4154 1967

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Chris

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And I didn't buy it for $2, even in buk it costed me about the same price you expect a wifi adapter to be available in resellers stores. Although I bought it at this price from the manufacturer.

This statement was intentionally erroneous and I even stated that. You've completely or intentionally missed the point I was attempting to make.

Your were comparing different things as if they were the same. I did the same in response merely as an example of how ridicules it was. Our prices were not out of line with the time period in which they were set.

I've acknowledged in the past we could lower prices, but it was probably not in our best interest, or that of the community. Getting the company to a point where it made sense to do so took a lot of work.

I acknowledge it's Unex DUNA-93F on my product page

Unex is just a supplier here and not the manufacturer. If you had ordered a few thousand you could have had them branded too.

you asked them to update it so it states ThinkPenguin ships to Europe as well

I didn't ask them to add ThinkPenguin. I did mention that the press release was misleading. It implied that Tehnoetic was the only place to get RYF certified adapters in Europe. We have had operations in the UK since 2011.

You made enough profit last year to have the power to try to force me out this year

We dropped prices about 4 months prior to the FSF Tehnoetic announcement. The price drop was across our entire catalog and not just one little adapter. It signalled a change in business model and was a long time in coming.

That's incorrect. I started by having prices lower than you and continued to adjust them so I can stay competitive. I payed 50 euros for an adapter from you in December. (And it arrived in 30 days.)

I'm guessing you bought the adapter off eBay from us. We were testing the waters to see if a business model with lower prices could be sustained. It could be and so we adjusted the prices on our main site.

The delivery time is highly dependent on the country and shipping method selected. Depending on the destination and shipping option most people can expect delivery within about a week at the most.

The USPS 6-10 day estimate is the officially advertised number from the postal service to most major world destinations. For some destinations this can exceed 30 days. For people in Eastern Europe in particular purchasing with the UK shipping option is recommended for quick delivery.

because I didn't like the way you were doing business or your philosophy (freedom-"friendly", nonfree BIOS, nonfree distros and you wanting to become mainstream) and because I think independence is important and is possible in the free software world we are building.

No currently manufactured laptop is 100% free. Our goal has always been to enable people to run 100% free software. Excluding the majority simply because they are not ready to adopt a 100% free distribution is counter-productive.

The Gluglug X60 is an older refurbished Lenovo with 100% free BIOS. There are likely still bits of non-free code needed on this system. Keyboards, hard drives, microcode, and similar components.

You can also flash at least one Apple system with 100% free BIOS.

I have a few objections to utilizing Lenovo, Apple, Dell, HP, and Toshiba laptops to base a system off. These companies utilise digital restrictions and/or other proprietary parts in a way that is hostile to free software adoption.

Apple and Lenovo are probably the worst and sadly these are the companies which the community has been able to mostly free. I don't believe the free software community is responsible for selecting these particular manufacturers. This is simply a matter of practicality. The reverse engineering work was done by people who are not necessarily free software advocates. The digital restrictions issue would not have been a factor for them. When the free software community came along they took the work of others and did the only thing feasible. The community does not have the resources to solve this problem and I'll refrain from being overly critical.

Unfortunately every time we use a Lenovo or Apple product with a 100% free BIOS we're contributing to the promotion of hardware from these manufacturers. Because of the color schemes and unique look of these machines it isn't feasible to avoid such promotion.

I would like to offer a laptop with 100% free BIOS. However such a project is resource intensive. The task is non-trivial in nature and we would almost certainly never recoup the cost.

This said we can make a difference in other ways. As I've stated on these forums we were involved in freeing the chipset utilized in the adapters above. We also are finished with another product that is to be RYF certified. This will be the first 100% free router. Not only is the router running a 100% free distribution, but it is also running a 100% free bootloader. In some ways this is like a BIOS for embedded devices. We are also contributing to the free software project that is making this 100% free distribution.

NYNEX
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-

tct
tct

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On 25.07.2014 04:28, name at domain wrote:
> You don't seem to care that much about free software since you are

That's a false assumption.

> endorsing hardware that needs non-free blobs as seen here :
> https://tehnoetic.com/tehnoetic-wireless-adapter-gnu-linux-libre-tet-n150

I am not endorsing any of the hardware besides the TET-N150. And the
ASUS laptop displayed has nonfree BIOS, but I can see why you didn't
picked on that too, because ThinkPenguin sells nonfree BIOS laptops.

I am not happy with the hardware displayed along my adapter, but at the
time those were the only devices I could easily get to make some photos.

I can try to get an x60 with libreboot and a Gluglug sticker and make a
photo with the TET-N150 in it as a proof of concept. I can try to find
another board too, and I welcome suggestions. Meanwhile, I can try to
blur the Raspberry Pi logo.

> If you are not aware, the raspberry PI is not a free software friendly
> device.

My friends use it as a personal server with no graphical interface. I am
not an owner myself, but I can understand why it's better to change the
board because of the graphics which require nonfree software.

Regarding how much care about free software I have, take a look again at
my product page. You won't see any nonfree distro "endorsed" as you see
on ThinkPenguin's: Ubuntu, Ubuntu, LXLE, LinuxMint (not "Mint" or
"GNU/Linux Mint", CentOS, Red Hat Enterprise Linux( not "GNU/Linux"),
OpenSuSE, *Raspbian* etc.

While ThinkPenguin specifically says it supports Raspbian (the nonfree
Debian-based ditribution to work on Raspberry Pi), I don't say I support
the distribution used for the Pi, I don't say I support the Pi hardware.
My photo can tell users my adapter supports the Pi, but I don't even
state that. From this to "endorsing" the Pi, is a long way. But anyway,
I got your point, you confirmed my doubts I had about that photo in the
first place.

Oh, and I forgot to mention one more reason I didn't want to work with
ThinkPenguin: its name refers to Linux, the kernel, with a penguin as
its mascot. The name translated means "think the Linux way". Well, the
Linux way is open source camp's way, it's what we fix by blacklisting
nonfree blobs in Linux. That way is the way the free software movement
don't agree with and that way is the most important reason why RMS
insists on including GNU along Linux in the name of the GNU system with
Linux, the kernel. So that users have the chance to learn about GNU and
its free software philosophy and don't follow Torvalds blindly.

--
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Magic Banana

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Is it bad to support non-free systems? I do not think so. Users need to make a transition from proprietary to free. I'd rather not see the creation of an apparently impermeable border between the 100%-free GNU/Linux systems and the rest of them. Do you complain that https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ (Emacs' main page) mentions Mac OS X, Windows and Solaris?

As for the distribution names not mentioning GNU, they actually are the names chosen by the projects themselves. I certainly do not approve those choices but is it a reason to change them? Maybe...

I would prefer the name ThinkGNU to ThinkPenguin. Anyway "ThinkPenguin" is no "ThinkLinux". And I do not think the name matters more than the speech and the actions.

tct
tct

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On 25.07.2014 14:27, name at domain wrote:
> Is it bad to support non-free systems? I do not think so. Users need to
> make a transition from proprietary to free. I'd rather not see the
> creation of an apparently impermeable border between the 100%-free
> GNU/Linux systems and the rest of them. Do you complain that
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ (Emacs' main page) mentions Mac OS
> X, Windows and Solaris?

My commercial project Tehnoetic is an extension of my activist work. I
don't need to list all common nonfree distros to say TET-N150 works on
them. I am advancing GNU/Linux-libre beginning with the title.

I didn't want to partner with ThinkPenguin, I wanted to be independent
and still do. I just listed my reasons and this one is one of them. I
run my business differently and strive to follow ethics in technology.

I have a question in the FAQ section where I write it works with other
systems (partially free distributions and Windows, while on Mac OS it
doesn't), but there is no guarantee the automatically installed firmware
is the free one, because those systems don't respect their users'
freedom (for instance, I advice all my Debian clients to not follow the
Debian wiki page and install the nonfree firmware). Instead, I point
them to download and install the Trisquel deb package. I have taken
steps to convince Debian to change its policy, include the free firmware
package and recommend it to be installed, instead of the nonfree one.

https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k_htc#Installation

https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k_htc/open_firmware

> As for the distribution names not mentioning GNU, they actually are the
> names chosen by the projects themselves. I certainly do not approve
> those choices but is it a reason to change them? Maybe...

See how the GNU project refers to them. We can try to make them change
their name to include GNU or use just the brand and put GNU/Linux in
description, if it's too long for them to include it in their trademark.
Regardless of their cooperation, I will not make the same mistake to
call them "Arch Linux" or "Linux Mint".

http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.en.html

> I would prefer the name ThinkGNU to ThinkPenguin. Anyway "ThinkPenguin"
> is no "ThinkLinux". And I do not think the name matters more than the
> speech and the actions.

I don't like the name ThinkPenguin because it sends the wrong message.
And let us not forget the logo is a penguin and GNU mascots weren't
among penguin mascots at the ThinkPenguin stand advertised here.

Everybody is free to do whatever they want, me included. I didn't want
to work together with ThinkPenguin, although I respect and followed
their example with the freedom-respecting wifi adapters. That's all. I
hope this answers the freedom of expression question raised by another
forum user.

--
Tiberiu C. Turbureanu
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quiliro@congresolibre.org
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El 25/07/14 07:20, Tiberiu C. Turbureanu escribió:
> Everybody is free to do whatever they want, me included. I didn't want
> to work together with ThinkPenguin, although I respect and followed
> their example with the freedom-respecting wifi adapters. That's all. I
> hope this answers the freedom of expression question raised by another
> forum user.

That is nice. I think that I align with your ethic perspective more. I
also agree that ThinkPenguin has spearheaded the provision of hardware
which respects your freedom. Then comes Gluglug and then Tehnoetic. All
three are constructing a great ecosystem that helps users become free. I
think that it would be more useful for all projects that support freedom
(in a greater or lesser degree) to collaborate instead of competing. Of
course that competition would make the prices go down and the quality to
lower. But it could destroy some of the competitors. It is best to
collaborate.

--
Saludos libres,
Quiliro Ordóñez
600 8579

Chris

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Iscritto: 04/23/2011

For the record I'm not against collaboration in most cases. Even with distributions which include non-free parts there is frequently mutually beneficial collaboration. We need more cooperation, not less.

A perfect example of an unlikely collaboration (unrelated to ThinkPenguin) is Ubuntu and Trisquel. Despite what people think about Ubuntu and its practices (for which I think we can all agree here there are at least a few bad ones) Trisquel developers and users report bugs related to Ubuntu upstream and downstream Trisquel benefits from those fixes.

This is my favourite t-shirt, it reads "LIBREPLANET: Working together for free software" and has all the different (including BSD and Linux-kernel(if we're settled on calling it that) mascots):

http://shop.fsf.org/product/lp-tshirt/

Legimet
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If you want distros like Debian to including the ath9k_htc firmware, the best thing to do would probably be to submit it to linux-firmware.git.

Chris

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I am advancing GNU/Linux-libre beginning with the title.

[begin sarcasm]

To prove my dedication to the cause is greater than yours I'd like to condemn the Free Software Foundation for calling the system just "GNU/Linux". It's unforgivable that nobody in the free software community envisioned a day when the mainline kernel would include non-free software-or that we would have a new derivative work called “Linux-libre”. I'd also like to apologize on behalf of ThinkPenguin for not having seen this either.

[/end sarcasm]

For those who know the history of the Linux kernel it wasn't always inclusive of non-free software. There was even a time when RMS didn't insist on people calling Linux GNU/Linux. This was a time before the "open source" movement.

ThinkPenguin supports free software on distributions that include some non-free software. This is no different than what the Free Software Foundation itself recommends/enables via some of its pages:

“You can install free software applications on your Windows machine and use them instead of proprietary software from Microsoft and others. “

Source: https://www.fsf.org/working-together/moving/windows

They aren't talking about X Windows here either.

Most people here didn't switch to Trisquel or any other 100% free distribution overnight. Ensuring users of distributions which include some non-free software are properly supported is an enabler of free software adoption.

I have taken steps to convince Debian to change its policy, include the free firmware package and recommend it to be installed, instead of the nonfree one.

A few things. Debian core already has a policy of excluding non-free blobs and the reason for its current inclusion of the ath9k-htc and carl9170 firmware in the non-free repository is complicated. See below for details. Debian already goes by the name Debian GNU/Linux too... so I'm unsure what policy or part your trying to change.

ThinkPenguin has also made efforts to get a variety of different distributions to include carl9170 and ath9k-htc firmware (both under free software licenses). After talking to different people from a variety of distributions quite a few responded by including ath9k-htc firmware and/or fixing related issues.

That said I've corresponded with the Debian package maintainers and can actually tell you what the problem is/was thats holding the free firmware back from being included in the main repository. It's the unusual toolchain and size. Everything in the mainline kernel has to compile in an automated and standard way. This is the Debian policy. As carl9170 and ath9k-htc do not follow the norms how one would go about including it is unclear. I don't claim to have a perfect memory, but this is my recollection of the situation.

And let us not forget the logo is a penguin and GNU mascots weren't among penguin mascots at the ThinkPenguin stand advertised here.

First of all you know nothing of what I attempted years ago, nor know of the issues were with licensing, trademarks, etc. If I had chosen a name like 'ThinkGNU' it may have violated an FSF or other entities/persons trademark/copyright. While I don't recall the exact order of events I did email the FSF about getting permission to utilize the trademark/copyright. Unfortunately it seems that the correct email address to send such requests to goes directly to the bit bucket. I got no response.

While correct we have attended at least one conference without the GNU (I'm human, I forgot it) we've been to many other conferences with BOTH the GNU mascot and the penguin mascot in attendance.

It made little difference at the event your referring as we also always use Trisquel as the distribution on the laptops on display and talk about free software, and non-free software issues. At the most recent non-GNU/Linux and not freedom-oriented event we attended (with about 3000 people I believe) you can see the GNU mascot, one of the Trisquel case badges, on of the computers with a 'powered by GNU/Linux' case badge on it (white system, lower left), and the “working together for free software” mouse pads. If you check out the brochures seen on the table you'll also notice we're primarily talking about free software using words such as “GNU/Linux” and saying “built on GNU and Linux”. We're the 1st or 2nd most GNU-friendly and free software friendly table at every event. The only reason we're often the 2nd is because the FSF is nearly always in attendance and spouts lots of GNU-merchandise for sale.

Chris

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What do you think of when you think of the penguin? I don't think of a kernel. I think of the whole free software system which includes the kernel.

I think part of my problem is we have a revisionist past. It wasn't even until later that I think an objection was made by RMS to the use of the word Linux to describe the GNU + kernel system.

That said what I think of when I think of the penguin is not the kernel, but that of a mascot which was adopted by the larger community and stuck as the result of default. It was not a result of an official contest. That was won by somebody else.

I did check out the wikipedia page and it does now (but didn't the last time I looked) say "Linux kernel". It also says "official logo" and goes into how it wasn't the official logo back in the day.

jxself
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Iscritto: 09/13/2010
Chris

I am a member!

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Iscritto: 04/23/2011

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It wasn't until 1996 that a public campaign began and by that point it was probably too late. Calling it GNU/Linux also isn't the same thing as the mascot. The GNU is clearly a mascot of the GNU project. The penguin to me is more representative of the larger ecosystem. Right or wrong that has been my perception.

NYNEX
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Iscritto: 04/27/2013

You don't seem to care that much about free software since you are endorsing hardware that needs non-free blobs as seen here : https://tehnoetic.com/tehnoetic-wireless-adapter-gnu-linux-libre-tet-n150

If you are not aware, the raspberry PI is not a free software friendly device. Many of us are working hard to get more free software respecting hardware out the door. Simple endorsements of hardware that needs non-free parts is quite damaging to the free software movement. This makes it seem OK to use these non-free platforms when it is not. If you are going to use the RYF logo, you should at least not be showing off RYF certified hardware with other hardware that needs binary blobs. This makes others think that the Raspberry PI is OK when it is not.

Legimet
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Iscritto: 12/10/2013
NYNEX
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Iscritto: 04/27/2013

You apparently did not read the post, did you? :

"...VideoCore IV is the first publicly documented mobile graphics core, and hope this is the first step towards a blob-free future for Raspberry Pi..."

The PI still needs a non-free blob to boot. I don't care about the graphics stack. If it could run without graphics, I would have few issues with the PI.

Sure, it is important, but broadcom did not release the most important part. Broadcom is still quite hostile to free software.

quantumgravity
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Iscritto: 04/22/2013

Most computers need a piece of proprietary software (the bios) in order to boot except the old gluglug thinkpad and the even older lemote yeeloong.
I think the majority of members in this board think that we can endorse such systems nevertheless (thinkpinguin laptops for instance) since it's almost impossible or at least very hard to get a free bios.
Can't see much difference to the raspberry pi once the graphics stack is freed.

Chris

I am a member!

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Iscritto: 04/23/2011

I don't think I'd go so far as to say "I endorse a non-free BIOS". It's a matter of "I put up with a non-free BIOS for the time being".

...

We still want a free BIOS, and we still want a 100% free system.

Legimet
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Iscritto: 12/10/2013

https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers

From FSF's website:
"The startup program is, in fact, the same program that runs the GPU and the video decoding hardware. Thus, the GPU and the video decoding hardware are unusable in the free world, but these jobs can be done with free software on the CPU."

Also, someone ported Broadcom's code.
http://www.raspberrypi.org/quake-iii-bounty-we-have-a-winner/

So I'm pretty sure this should allow the Raspberry Pi to boot without the blob.

Chris

I am a member!

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Iscritto: 04/23/2011

I'd assume its not free until somebody in the free software community explicitly investigates it further. All the sources I've read lead me to believe its inconclusive. As far as I'm aware nobody has even attempted to get a 100% free distribution running on it.

quantumgravity
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Iscritto: 04/22/2013

I've searched the linked site for "raspberry pi" without any result.
If you make such accusations be more explicit and provide detailed information.

Legimet
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Iscritto: 12/10/2013

He was referring to the picture on the USB adapter's product page.

pogiako12345
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Iscritto: 07/11/2014

Thanks guys! I'd rather buy a USB wireless adapter from Think Penguin but not right now though :)

smiley
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Iscritto: 06/19/2013

At the end of the day Think Penguin can call their company whatever the hell they like it's none of my business. People talk about freedom on here which is not just software but freedom to express yourself and your own opinion. Yes most hardware is proprietary to some extent. As long as it is capable to run Trisquel isn't that all that matters. Cant we all just get along! They can take away our hardware but they'll never take away our freedom, lol.

Jabjabs
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Iscritto: 07/05/2014

Free Hardware is the next level that is still a very long way off. There are some projects that are aiming at working on this but is still the early primative days.

I agree for the moment the software is what we should be focusing on until the hardware is more viable.

quantumgravity
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Iscritto: 04/22/2013

The freedom of free speech doesn't include the right that everybody has to listen and agree to you.
So even if the whole world complained about the name of thinkpinguin, their freedom wouldn't be affected since nobody wants to legally make them change their name.
A common misunderstanding when it comes to free speech...
See also http://xkcd.com/1357/

Ra
Ra
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Iscritto: 07/23/2014

"Most computers need a piece of proprietary software (the bios) in order to boot..."
Just in case you didn't know - some people have already developed an alternative, and are developing it further:
http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot

Eemeli
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Iscritto: 01/04/2014

Coreboot includes non-free blobs. Without those you are looking at Libreboot:

http://libreboot.org/

It currently supports the Lenovo ThinkPad X60/X60s, the Lenovo ThinkPad X60 tablet, some of the Lenovo ThinkPad T60's, and finally Apple Macbooks 1.1 and 2.1.

Ishamael
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Iscritto: 08/29/2014

Without free BIOS-Microcode, we will never have a secure platform to run on. We also cannot allow them to force propitiatory restrictions on storage standards. Mark my words you will regret a standardization of "$mart" storage.