Please, help me get rid of Skype.
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I hate Skype. Not even because this closed-source Voip-client. SKYPE IS BUGGIEST PROGRAMM I EVER USED IN MY WHOLE LIFE!!!
(By the way,I am ex-user of Windows 98.)
But lately. Skype has become even WORSE.
I have no more strength to endure!
So, I`m looking for alternatives.
Requirements:
1.Audio call
2.Windows XP-compatalible version of client(friend of mine have Windows XP)
3.Tools for checking settings, like Skype`s "Test call".
4.Can work behind NAT.
5.It is NOT Ekiga.
6.User-friendly interface.
7.Russian interface.
Optional wishes:
1.Video call
2.Text chat + support of Cyrillic
3.Direct file transferring
4.Available non-X version of Linux client.
I uses XMPP (Jabber). It's a protocol uses by several programs (XMPP-clients). The different XMPP-clients implement different parts of the protocol. Some have voice calls, others don't.
On Trisquel I use Empathy, if I want voice and video calls. Gajim is better, if you don't want voice calls. For friends with Windows, I suggest them Psi. Psi for Trisquel 6.0 doesn't have a voice calls feature.
In Trisquel I install Empathy without it's recommended packages, just empathy and telepathy-gabble. Otherwise Empathy will work and suggest to me many protocols I don't want to use. The package telepathy-gabble is for XMPP. This is how I install:
sudo aptitude -R install empathy telepathy-gabble
But the XMPP-clients have problems:
- I can't find any working test call services
- Sometimes voice calls just doesn't work and you have to try several times for them to work
- When a voice call doesn't work the error message is useless for understanding the issue
- I tried to do voice calls with a person on a MacOS and Psi, but just wasn't able. I don't know why because of the useless error messages
- File transfers have problems with routers, although they sometimes work on some clients and some additional configurations
Otherwise, XMPP is the best free protocol. I would like to hear if there is something better.
Here are notes of my researched on different XMPP-clients. The notes are in Org mode format.
My XMPP-address is name at domain. Anyone how wants to test XMPP may contact me. I want figure out how to make MacOS voice calls with any free client.
Hope someone finds my notes useful:
* Frameworks ** GStreamer http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/ A multimedia framework. Conferencing with some clients might require additional decoders. These can be installed from: gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg ** Farstream http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/Farstream Audio/Video conferencing framework. Previously know as Farsight. A framework for audio and video conferencing. Project aren't able to compile it for Windows, hence they don't have audio and video conferencing for Windows. Uses GStreamer as a multimedia framework. ** Telepathy http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/ A framework that provides one interface for different messaging protocols, including XMPP. An connection manager called Gabble provides XMPP for Telepathy. Uses Farstream as an audio/video conferencing framework. ** PsiMedia http://delta.affinix.com/psimedia/ Developed for Psi. Uses GStreamer as a multimedia framework. ** libpurple https://www.pidgin.im/ A library for communication over different messaging protocols. Uses Farstream as an audio/video conferencing framework. * Clients ** Empathy Uses Telepathy. ** KDE Telepathy Uses Telepathy. ** Gajim Uses Farstream since 0.15.1. Version 0.15 and uses Farsight. Trisquel 6.0 comes with Gajim 0.15 and Farstream instead of Farsight. Because of this Trisquel 6.0 doesn't have audio and video with Gajim. ** Psi Uses PsiMedia. Currently can only do audio calls. ** Pidgin Uses libpurple. ** Jitsi Has build-in support for audio and video. It's buggy and supports only H.264 video.
If anyone here is able to make video calls with someone who uses MacOS or Windows, I would be VERY interested in knowing what client software and protocol you use successfully. I have a jabber.org account, and also a sip account at ekiga.net. I have tried the ekiga and jitsi clients but there's always something not quite working (I believe the best result I had was video from both ends and sound on only one end! grrr...).
So if you're happily video-chatting, using free software and open protocols, with some friends who use MacOS or Windows, PLEASE tell me what your secret recipe is :)!
I am a member!
I've used jabber to make audio calls with people who use the Windows
googletalk client; not sure how the video worked, since all the chatters
were blind. We find the audio connection to be less reliable than we
get using mumble.
I'm sorry, but I don't know. I have only audio chat.
For voice call with me (with Trisquel 6.0) and friends with Windows, I use Empathy and they use Psi. Psi doesn't have video however.
Sometimes the voice call wont start, so we try several times until it does, switching between who initiates the calls. The situation is not ideal.
So shall I conclude that video calls between Trisquel users and Mac/Windows users are impossible to achieve? So far absolutely no one has been able to give a working recipe...
EDIT: I'll try Jitsi tomorrow with a Mac user. My test today with a Windows user was unsuccessful.
It might be possible with Jitsi, but I don't like the program in general. I tried it on a Windows computer and it was very buggy, even for general use. There were problems like windows not rendering properly and others. With the other programs, even if there are problems with voice calls, at least in general (for text) they work good.
I wasn't able to make a call between Jitsi on Windows and other XMPP clients on GNU. Although, it might be possible if you fiddle around. In any case, I would appreciate reports on how Jitsi works when you test it.
Also, Jitsi supports only H.264 video (patent-encumbered), which I don't like.
I am a translator!
Jitsi 2.0 supports VP8:
https://jitsi.org/Development/Roadmap
I am a translator!
SIP clients should work fine such as Linphone (has a Windows version also) or Twinkle (doesn't support video and doesn't provide a Windows version).
Version for Windows is REQUIREMENT. Twinkle absolutely useless for me.
SIP is a standard protocol. Your friends don't need to use the same program as you as long as they're using the same protocol. If Skype would just support standard protocols, you wouldn't even need to tell your friends to use something other than Skype. It's just like how I can use XChat IRC to talk to people on IRC who might be connected via Pidgin or some other IRC client.
"Your friends don`t need to use the same programm"
I know it. Installing the same software simplifies troubleshooting of communication.
I am a translator!
The Windows and GNU/Linux versions aren't really the same. For instance, on GNU/Linux you need to configure the sound system in the SIP client (e.g. Alsa, OSS, Pulseaudio). Anyway, the reason I meantioned Twinkle is because its interface has more options than Linphone, such as viewing missed calls.
I know it too. But there are less distinction than between different programs.
Simple: linphone (GNU/Linux distros and nonGNU but Linux distros like Android and OS X, iOS, Windows) or Jitsi (GNU/Linux, OS X, Windows)
You need one SIP account. You can create one free of charge in Ekiga.net or Linphone.org.
[1] https://www.linphone.org/eng/linphone/register-a-linphone-account.html
[2] https://ekiga.net/index.php?page=register
I think QuteCom better choice. It is have very Skype-like interface.
I am a translator!
Twinkle and Linphone are easy to use with Ekiga and Linphone accounts. Jitsi and QuteCom didn't work when I tried them.
I am a translator!
Did it work out well with QuteCom? Did you run into some difficulties or does it work well in both GNU/Linux and Windows?
I won Skype.
What works
1.Audio call(worse quality compared to Skype)
2.Skype-to-SIP calls
3.SIP-to-Skype calls
My SIP-client:
QuteCom
What about messaging? Does it work?
Beside this, your solution is much better than using skype, but it's not really good, since the one who's called is using skype.
Yesterday I read an article about microsoft reading officially everything you write; and surely this concerns your sip-to-skype solution as well.
I am a translator!
Yes, that is perfectly true. However it can be very hard to convince people to use a different program. I've had that issue myself. Things like "come on, no one will switch to your Pidgin/Gimp/insert-a-program, everyone is using [insert-proprietary-solution] and you have to as well" or "Ekiga/whatever-program sucks!" are very common reasons for not wanting to switch. If you start explaining that Skype or ICQ can be spyed on easily you'll often hear "they can spy on you when you use any kind of software if they want to".
Often people don't understand what's wrong with non-free software and will not listen to any arguments, as they are fully convinced it is of no importance to know or care about such things.
El 15/05/13 07:06, name at domain escribió:
> Yes, that is perfectly true. However it can be very hard to convince
> people to use a different program. I've had that issue myself. Things
> like "come on, no one will switch to your
> Pidgin/Gimp/insert-a-program, everyone is using
> [insert-proprietary-solution] and you have to as well" or
> "Ekiga/whatever-program sucks!" are very common reasons for not
> wanting to switch. If you start explaining that Skype or ICQ can be
> spyed on easily you'll often hear "they can spy on you when you use
> any kind of software if they want to".
>
> Often people don't understand what's wrong with non-free software and
> will not listen to any arguments, as they are fully convinced it is of
> no importance to know or care about such things.
That is a very good summary of the attitude of no-free software users.
I guess that when people want to communicate with you, they will use the
solution you use or ask you to use theirs. There is no way to convince
them to use your solution if they don't value the same things that you
do or they need to do it because they want to talk with you. You can ask
them to support your cause. But i have found that they will do it if you
do everything for them and only when they are good friends with you such
that they want to help you.
Perhaps we should make a howto about this. :-)
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Quiliro Ordóñez
Presidente (en conjunto con el resto de socios)
Asociación de Software Libre del Ecuador - ASLE
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You're right, but I think those people are just victims of proprietary software.
There are several different types of victims:
1. The ones who can't avoid prop. software because they _really_ need some unavailable features, for example because of their job; I regret them very much. The free software movement has to work very hard to give them their freedom.
2. The ones who just don't know about the whole problem;
3. The ones who know, but don't want to know it. They're somehow addicted to proprietary software; they don't want to give away their pretty toys; everyone who tells them bad things about prop. software is just a threat to their harmonic world.
A friend of mine and I had a long discussion about free software, and everything developed fine for me. My arguments were convincing and he seemed to get more and more convinced; but since that day, he reacts very emotionally whenever he hears the word free software and pretends to be bored or pissed off like I would be talking about it whole day, which is not the case.
I think he's a victim of prop. software to, and perhaps one of the most affected.
I am a translator!
I am familiar with case nr. 3... Sometimes I get the expression people are convinced all these freedoms only matter for developers and the thought, that there might be ethical principles involved, is too foreign for them to adopt.
Personally, I think one shouldn't preach left and right about it. It gives the wrong impression. Bring it up when it is relevant for some other topics, let the other person figure it out by themselves (we all got Internet and can search it, after all). If you mention free software and the importance of open standards from time to time, the other person will start thinking about it ineviitably. The idea that ethics and software have something to do with each other is quite unusual and new, it has to sink in.
I knew a guy who helped me learning how to use GNU/Linux (there used to be wonderful German ressource on the net, linuxpaten.org, a page dedicated to bringing GNU/Linux pros and beginners together). He used to talk about free software and the GNU project from time to time. Usually it ended with him giving me links to articles on gnu.org. I just blocked all of that, not willing to understand what it has to do with "Linux" and my personal goal of not using Windows anymore. I kept thinking about it though, so at some point, when I was just surfing around the net, bored, I searched youtube for "Linux history". A video called "Richard Stallman, father of all things that are Linux" popped up. I was like, who the hell is that poser? L. Torvalds made Linux, right? And look where I ended up today :P It's important that people try to learn about it themselves, one can't force the stuff onto them.
>Yesterday I read an article about microsoft reading officially everything you write
Could've been this http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care-Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html
"What about messaging"
Not working. Instead, I'm using text chat of "Агент Mail.ru"(russian analog of ICQ). It is proprietary protocol with open specification.
Now my computer have only FLOSS. There are other proprietary soft(Electronical Encyclopedia, Wine by Etersoft, game the Keepsake, etc ), but it is not currently installed.
"since the one who's called is using skype"
He have other friends. And EVERY ONE of them have Skype.
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