Problems spreading the word... and the idea of a little project
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Hello everyone,
at university, I have to meet in regular intervals (mainly a few weeks) with a woman from the phil-hist faculty, because our faculties work together in some cases.
We meet, have a bit of smalltalk and then we have to do our work together.
It's an rather old lady with a "doktor" degree (similar to ph d) and we understand us very well, but we both know that our relationship is only a professional one.
Now, last time we met our smalltalk was about technical things and I mentioned the whole free software thing, including gnu/linux and so on.
She was _very_ interested_ and asked me to send her per e-mail some information material.
Here the problem begins:
1. She is an absolutely non-technical person. PCs appear very strange to her and I think her only experiences are restricted to using word and searching the internet with google.
2. As mentioned before, our "personal" relationship is restricted to view minutes of smalltalk; I will not be able to say "I come to your home and install this or that".
I thought about this quite a while and decided, that it's useless.
What can I send her so that she can free her computing? I think there is nothing.
If I send her the gnu philosophy-free-software page (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html), she will be hit by this huge amount of
information which is only available in very broken german.
Things will get worse if she stays at gnu.com and tries to download one of the endorsed distributions.
Maybe she will choose "blag" or "ututo" and wont touch free software ever again.
I also can't recommend Trisquel to her, because
1) she has not the technical skills to install and use it
2) she will try to install it on an arbitrary pc and there's a great risk
of failure due to non-supported hardware.
Also, I'm quite sure that Trsiquel at the very beginning will be frustrating. Maybe her husband will try
to use some of his familiar sites and they won't work due to the lack of flash; they're not into free software
that deep, so this experience will do harm to the whole project.
So I realized that there is no way for a less-technical person to free his computing in an easy way and I'm considering to
change that for german people.
I really can imagine making a litte website giving an easy -to -understand overview over topic for non-techis and practical tips to free
their computing.
But: (I know this is a hot topic here) think about you and youre own way to Trsiquel and 100% free. It would be great to make people
switch immediately to 100% free, but most of the time, this will not be possible and frighten people.
so, I consider endorsing explecitely and only for the "period of transition" (I will stress this hundred times) distros like Debian or linux
mint so people can make first experiences with their own pc. After they got in contact with this, they will be more open for changing their
hardware and I will endorsing Trisquel as final solution and giving advices for everyday use (flash replacement etc.).
So two questions:
1. how would you try to help this person in my situation
2. would I get the support of trisquel for my project (I mean, will the community endorse it)? I know the guidelines, but I will not call the use of non-free software a solution.
I only will tell people who make a decision between 0% freedom and 97% freedom to choose 97% freedom for now and make further steps to 100%
if the step 0 % - > 100 % is impossible at once.
First I'd help with the translations at gnu.org. It would help a lot of people. Including this lady.
If the translation situation cannot be quickly fixed, I would point her to the English page to make sure she isn't exposed to any hodge-podge German translation, http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
I really think going cold turkey is the best solution. Having said that I myself dual booted for a few months before realizing I don't need windoze. I think if we introduce people to ubuntu or mint or whatever mostly free system, we risk creating yet more open sourcey Linux users [sic]. In my opinion these users of GNU/Linux who never heard of GNU are a very big threat to the free software movement. It's because of people like this we have binary blobs in the kernel.
One way you could really help this person is provide her with plenty of accurate and bluntly honest information and if she wishes to try it in practice, point her to thinkpenguin.
First, I absolutely don't want anybody to become a "opensource/ubuntu" type, and I would make sure that everyone knows about GNU and the philosophy after reading my page. I agree with you in what you said about the threat to free software because of those people.
Your advice to think penguin is good, but you can't expect someone who recently heard about a kind of movement wanting to spend a few hundred dollars for it at once.
It's like telling someone who tries out vegetarien food to join a vegan-only membership for much money... it won't work.
And yes, I wrote "fixing the gnu german translation problem" on my todo list, but this will solve the problem only partially.
The Gnu page doesn't provide sufficient technical information for a newbie. He just learns why to do it, but not how.
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On 2013-06-14 07:46, name at domain wrote:
> going cold turkey
Can you please try and avoid such expressions here? Is this what you meant?:
"*Cold turkey*" describes the actions of a person who abruptly gives up
a habit or addiction
rather than
gradually easing the process through gradual reduction or by using
replacement medication . The
supposed advantage is that by not actively using supplemental methods,
the person avoids thinking about the habit and its temptation, and
avoids further feeding the chemical addiction."
- - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_turkey
F.
- --
Fabián Rodríguez
http://fsf.magicfab.ca
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>Can you please try and avoid such expressions here? Is this what you meant?
What's the problem? Yes that is what I mean.
On 2013-06-14 11:37, name at domain wrote:
> >Can you please try and avoid such expressions here? Is this what you
> meant?
>
> What's the problem? Yes that is what I mean.
Not everyone will understand such expressions. I for one had to look it up.
Well, it's a fairly common expression. And now you know what it means the next time you encounter it.
I guess that one the best ways to inform and motivate people in this direction is to show to them a video-speeches, so that they could understand what it is all about. What else, then, is more understandable to out-of-computing people than a nice video-speech? (Well, actually there is also a live speech). Even giving a textual information is not the best way, because alot of people don't like to read books (better to say: in what today is called "schools" they were forced and conditioned to read them, what eventually sets people to read them with disgust, of course. Obviously, a school that makes active children sit at desks studying mostly useless subjects is a bad school. It is a good school only for those who believe in such a school, for those uncreative citizens who want docile, uncreative children who will fit into a civilization whose standard of success is money). To people, mostly, it's much easier _to listen_ something than to read.
That's why I've suggested making more translations on speeches related to free software:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/translations-r-stallman
This is the best I can say for now. Probably there _is_ something better, but I don't know enough about it.
The rms speeches are great, but they have the same problem as the gnu page:
they tell people only why to do it, but not how.
He doesn't give any usable technical advice, and that's not bad, because the purpose of this speeches is to explain to people the necessity of free software;
but for my lady this won't make her capable of using a free operating system.
I don't know if lack of Flash is a problem today. Fortunately many websites is removing this or adding video in H.264 for tablets and smartphones and Abrowser in Trisquel support this. It's amazing to see many websites without this bullshit :-)
At least you may try to think about what is better _not_ to do.
This is simply not enough
Could you give her a Raspberry Pie with a free OS on it? Would that be appropriate?
This way, the switch will not have surprises (eg. interfere with her using websites that require Flash).
She will notice the differences between the RPie PC and her current PC (docx, Flash, etc). If you explain why these differences exist and matter, maybe she will transition to the free computer.
The Raspberry Pie is cheap for a computer, but it's still a chunk of money. So I'm not sure if this is a good solution.
I am a member!
How about loaning her a computer with a working Trisquel or giving her a
USB Trisquel installation to try? Demonstration might make the best
case of all.
Definitely this would be the best.
But:
unfortunately, I don't have any notebook I could lend to her.
The thing with the usb stick seems to be the best solution possible.
I will send her a link to the gnu page and give her a trisquel usb stick as well as a trisquel cd in case usb-boot doesn't work.
Then I will ask how everything worked and maybe link to the trisquel forum.
In case things didn't work at all, I will recommend think penguin to her and lend her a debian usb stick just to see how the system looks like she will be using after buying from thinkpenguin.
I think this will be the best solution.
I like Dave's idea too. Does your university library lend laptops? If so, perhaps you can use a university laptop to show her how the live-usb works. She may appreciate you showing her how it works before giving it a go herself.
A Raspberry PI requires a non-free graphics driver to even boot.
Maybe it would be a better idea to loan a desktop computer.
Something must be wrong with this info.
On my raspberry pi, debian ist running without contrib or non-free, so I don't have any non-free drivers installed and my raspberry pi is able to boot.
I never used the xserver, so I can only talk about text mode.
See e.g. https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers -- the
issue is a program run on the GPU, needed to boot the ARM core, which
also contains an OpenGL ES implementation. Other ARM SoCs work without
any nonfree software other than their ROM (which isn't different than
other hardware parts, it cannot be changed by the user nor vendor)
unless using hardware graphics acceleration.
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Thanks for sharing your concerns, it's very important that you do,
specially here.
On 2013-06-14 04:42, name at domain wrote:
[...]
>
> So two questions:
> 1. how would you try to help this person in my situation
You mention three major perception problems:
1- This person isn't technical at all and won't understand
2- There is too much information for this person to process
3- They depend on Flash too much
You need to realize this may be a reflection on your perception of your
own problems. In order:
1- Make yourself available, but you don't need to know everything - you
can rely on this forum and many more already. Please mention this "if
you have any other questions, I can relay them and come back to you, I
don't know everything!" Be honest about this, don't position yourself
for failure.
2- This person is a scholar, used to academic work and lectures. Don't
underestimate or judge their ability to process HUGE amounts of
information. Be clear: "**In my opinion** there is a lot of information,
here is a starting point [URL to free-sw.html]. Take a look and let me
know what you think"- then STOP - let people discover, open the door and
remain available for further questions
3- Do they really depend on Flash? I have been flash-free for 3 years
now, never came across a situation where it was absolutely impossible to
work around it. This is a technical issue when it comes up, so ask here.
Be upfront "Trisquel does not include non-free software, that may
include some functionalities you may expect, like Flash. There are known
workaround for such uses. I can help / I can ask / relay questions / etc.".
> 2. would I get the support of trisquel for my project (I mean, will the community endorse it)? I know
the guidelines, but I will not call the use of non-free software a solution.
I believe you can introduce Trisquel if that's what you use. If you
don't use it, you can't really expect to know how to
explain/debug/workaround/report/fix issues. I don't see any technical
impossibilities, though. I've been monitoring and using these forums for
>2 years I think and the amount of help and useful advice here is
incredible. But you need to use this resource and our availability to
get local people interested, and build your own local self-help
resources, so people don't view you as "the freedom guy". Don't put
yourself in that position. Mention commercial help and resources. I know
I provide such services, but not in Germany (well, technically, I would
be prepared to fly and I've done this before). Perhaps ask on this very
forum if someone in Germany would help for a fee.
> I only will tell people who make a decision between 0% freedom and 97% freedom to choose 97%
freedom for now and make further steps to 100%
> if the step 0 % - > 100 % is impossible at once.
Remember there is no such thing as 100% at the moment, the closest bein
coreboot systems and I haven't seen any so far that would be in wide
use. Chromebooks seem to be it but I don't see lots of working examples.
Starting with Trisquel on a BIOS-equiped computer is not 100% free, but
it's pretty darn close, and provide the base for much more solid freedom
down the road. The next best thing IMO is Debian, as you can focus on
fixing and contributing the non-free approaches and that is useful to
Trisquel and to all Debian-derivatives.
I'd also suggest organizing local meetings - sometimes even inviting
people for coffee/beer and calling that "Free software / GNU/Linux
meetup" will get you more help than you'd think. The FSF has a nice
space for that called LibrePlanet, so you can even use that structure
for such events (http://libreplanet.org).
Best of luck and please come back with your findings/progress.
F.
- --
Fabián Rodríguez
http://fsf.magicfab.ca
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Thank you for your long answer.
"1- Make yourself available, but you don't need to know everything"
Well, I pointed out that I don't have even the possibility to make myself more than *a little bit* available. So there's no danger I will become the only "free software maintainer" for this person.
And yes, I want to make use of other resources available, that's what the whole topic is about.
"2- This person is a scholar, used to academic work and lectures. Don't
underestimate or judge their ability to process HUGE amounts of
information. Be clear: "**In my opinion** there is a lot of information,
here is a starting point [URL to free-sw.html]. Take a look and let me
know what you think"- then STOP - let people discover, open the door and
remain available for further questions"
The information on gnu.org isn't really too much, but it uses to much technical expressions, such as "source code" or "binary blobs" and there is too much information on side topics like tivoization, which isn't necessary to know for a total beginner.
You have to bear in mind: this kind of persons have only a vague idea of what a program is.
They only know: I'm clicking here, and this and that happens.
You have to explain to them: a program can do more things like those you can see with your eyes on the screen.
I think the information on gnu.org is not quite appropriate for this audience.
Beside of this, it's a great idea to show her this kind of information and then shut the door, but I don't quite know how to proceed.
"Remember there is no such thing as 100% at the moment"
Yes, I was talking about operating systems only.
I am a member!
Three things:
1. Don't push non-technical types of people to use free software if there is no support infrastructure. It will only end badly and hurt any future potential when the infrastructure does exist.
2. By infrastructure I mean technical people who can support it and hardware available which people can buy. As an example a mini desktop computer would not be a problem to support in Germany because of ThinkPenguin. However there is no German speaking support so unless there is someone who is able to support her I wouldn't advise pushing her to use free software on GNU/Linux.
3. There is a lot of free software on MS Windows and if you can't get her into GNU/Linux because of limited support and hardware suggest to her the programs which are also available on MS Windows like: libreoffice, firefox, etc.
Don't expect 100% transition to freedom in one shot; nobody ever managed to did that. That is why I used to recommend Ubuntu, but now I recommend Debian GNU/Linux due to some weird features of Ubuntu dash.
You should recommend her Debian. Or even better, install it yourself. If she has hardware for which there is no free firmware, install non-free and tell her to consider buying something free software friendlier next time (in future). If she is dependent on a non-free software avaliable for windows, and there are either no alternatives or alternatives do not satisfy; use wine. Note that debian has pre-historic wine in repos so get precompiled playonlinux packages. Do not be afraid of her installing non-free software PC, but you might want to tell her to avoid steam.
Cold turkey is the worst thing you can do. I know villagers with hayforks will attack me for this, but I strongly believe this is the right thing to do.
Oh and, P.S.
My sister runs gnu/linux with Adobe Photosohop and Adobe InDesign installed. She has got to be productive before she gets used to GIMP and Scribus.
So, to put everything in a nutshell:
Almost everyone agreed with my idea of avoiding a "cold turkey" ( I stated this, using other words, in my original post).
I considered giving her a trisquel usb stick for quite a while, but I abandoned this idea because I can't imagine her being able to install trisquel AND being happy at once with the new operating system without anyone helping her.
I agree with Chris who mentioned that there is no appropriate infrastructure in Germany which could replace my personal help; and giving her my personal help would mistreat our relationship, I can't do that.
And yes, I think the best thing for the moment is telling her:
you can use these free programs with windows, but there is no infrastructure to help you making the change to a free OS; I will let you know if things change.
I think this whole story is very informative for us all.
The free software movement works hard on difficult things like reverse engineering to increase the distribution of free software, and that's good.
But there is a big potential in a completely different direction.
Some years ago, there was a platform called "linuxpaten" in germany ("linux godfathers" in english). Total beginners got connected with "experts" who helped them switching to gnu/linux.
Well, we don't need "linuxpaten", but "free-software paten" in germany, or something similar.
If something like this would exist, it would be easy for me to help this person.
Furthermore, I'm encouraged to make a small information platform for german people (I can translate it in english as well) which gives comprehensible information and the necessary tools for switching gradually but certainly to free software.
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