Script to remove nonfree software from Ubuntu
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Hello Everyone,
I was thinking if there was any kind of script to remove all the non-free software on Ubuntu ? That kind of script could be used to speed up the Trisquel development only giving the work of "adapting" something that is not available yet on Ubuntu.
I would like to know that so I could test it with my Ubuntu Server and with the new Ubuntu 12.10 that is going to be out today. As an old fan of Ubuntu, I have to admit that I was pretty pissed of when I saw the Amazon logo on the Unity Bar just after the installation of the Beta2 on a VM.... they are selling their souls, but like everyone love to say... this is how business work.
If anyone could help me with this I will be very appreciated :D
Thanks in Advance,
Luis Da Costa
Have you looked at this page : https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/how-trisquel-made ?
I didn't knew about that page, sorry about that :S.. And thanks for the information :D
where you able to make Ubuntu 12.10 free? I think that page explains about complete repository. Please share how you did it.
Thanks.
I didn't try it yet, but I was thinking of something like vrms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrms) but with a lot of changes. Or a little bit like the "your-freedom" package like in Parabola GNU/Linux, with just the need for a simple repository with all the files that need to be changed and nothing else. With something like this it would be possible in less than a day to create a totally Free version of Ubuntu with less than a week of difference between the Ubuntu release and this Ubuntu-free release. And we could, with a little bit of work, even do this something automatic for the daily releases.
Yes please!
On 18/10/12 21:02, name at domain wrote:
> I didn't try it yet, but I was thinking of something like vrms
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrms) but with a lot of changes. Or a
> little bit like the "your-freedom" package like in Parabola GNU/Linux,
> with just the need for a simple repository with all the files that need
> to be changed and nothing else. With something like this it would be
> possible in less than a day to create a totally Free version of Ubuntu
> with less than a week of difference between the Ubuntu release and this
> Ubuntu-free release. And we could, with a little bit of work, even do
> this something automatic for the daily releases.
You probably are aware of it but let me mention anyway that vrms is a misnamed command. It considers Debian Free Software Guidelines and not the FSF/Stallman's definition of free software. As a consequence it reports the documentation distributed under the GNU FDL as non-free and probably does not report software under the Artistic 1.0 license (see this thread).
I know about that (I saw it on wikipedia before trying it xD). This is why I was talking about a "modified" version of vrms. A version that would respect the name that it stands for.
I will try to see how it works and what can be done, but to me it was the most promising "solution" for a "normal user" that don't want to compile the Distro from the sources (even if, eventually this will have to be done).
PS: Even if I love the idea myself (and even knowing that I would always prefer rolling distributions to Stable Distributions because of the time before an update of (what I call) important everyday software) I don't see this as a replacement for Trisquel at any time (just to clear the things up)... I just see this as a "I have time in front of me and a necessity so if this can help Ruben (and others) to make Trisquel better in a faster way than why not :D".
To me, it looks like "the most promising solution for a normal user" is simply to install Trisquel. With such a 100% free distribution, tools like vrms are pointless ('vrms' only considers the packages installed through APT and Trisquel's repositories do not contain any proprietary software).
If you are talking about cleaning an Ubuntu, the work amounts to change the kernel for Linux-libre and to have an updated list of its proprietary software and to "apt-get remove --purge" them. This is exactly what the script I mentioned does (but it was done for Ubuntu 10.04 and the repositories of the more recent versions of Ubuntu probably include some more proprietary software).
You are right... I start to looking at this from a point and then, after removing all the problems, I came to the conclusion that everything as already been done :s...
I even found this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu-libre, I've tried it myself (enabling it before starting up the USB installation), and it is quite disappointing... proprietary stuff is installed by default but only a few are removed nothing more.. so it is almost pointless...
I just came with this idea so people didn't have to wait to have something Ubuntu 12.10 base on Trisquel very long but I have to admit that this would take a big amount of time.. the best solution I see for now to accomplish this for those who want to keep the Ubuntu installation without using the Script is to create a PPA but I can't see this as a viable solution in the long term tho...
It is not a reason good enough to blacklist Free Software because it is buggy. I don't understand why VRMS is blacklisted. It is an attack to Free Speech to blacklist VRMS.
I remember using years ago VRMS just for fun. I saw it was buggy, but it did not matter because I never considered it as a serious program but just a programming excercise and joke.
The right way to deal with VRMS is to send patches to the dev which make VRMS less buggy, and to inform users that it is buggy. The wrong way is to blacklist VRMS.
Vrms considers the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are different from the FSF/RMS's definition of free software. That is why I wrote the command is misnamed (it should not refer to "rms"). For instance, Debian as a project (individual developers may have different opinions) considers that the GNU FDL is a non-free license. You can try to send a patch to change this fact but it will be ignored.
A "fixed" 'vrms' (i.e., using the FSF's definition of free software) would be completely useless on Trisquel (remember that 'vrms' only considers the packages installed through APT). I can write this tool right now (here in Shell):
echo 'No non-free package installed. rms would be proud.'
I am not sure to understand what you mean by "blacklisted" or "an attack to Free Speech". Like many other packages, 'vrms' is not in Trisquel's repository. That is all. If you want to install it anyway (to see what software you use does not qualify as "free" for Debian), go on. Trisquel will not prevent its installation.
yes, that will be very nice. Even if possible that ubuntu 12.10 can be cleaned to be free, that is enough for me. I use few softwares and if needed will compile updates from source.
to make ubuntu 12.10 free, is following the procedure on that page the only way? Is there a way to find out what non-free is there in ubuntu 12.10 and then removing it.
You want this script... or an updated version of it!
That is for changing Ubuntu 10.04 to Trisquel 4.0. Please can you tell updated script link.
Thanks
Atleast first basic would be to replace kernel with linux-libre and find if things are working proper. Hope ubuntu12.10 did not add non-free dependence too much.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_libre#Effects_of_removing_proprietary_firmware
As ubuntu 12.10 released today, would need to compile & install linux-libre, as no compatible deb will be there
For this we have a lot of solution, but the best I see is the "Trisquel Solution", as in : Use the same kernel (but the libre version) and change what is needed to change (and this can really be a hard work to do for a little team).
But something like the Parabola Gnu/Linux method is quite good.. you replace the repositories, and you add a new package that would make a "conflict" with non-free ones making them to be removed and not allowed to be installed after that and you have the problem solved for non-free software with the Distribution you love (and this until a new non-free software is out, like (once again) Parabola with the catalyst drivers).
[Information_outside_topic]
I don't want to be mean but... Ubuntu is getting really ugly in all terms :S... I use to love this distribution that made me (and a lot of people) came to Gnu/Linux, but this is just ridicule, just have a look:
- We have the Amazon Icon the Unity's bar that opens the website
- The wallpaper seems something that a drunk guy did with all the old ones.
- Ubuntu One uses flash to play the musics
- There is a legal notice on the Dash for the search function
- The Window Snap continues with the bugs that appear on the 12.04 Version ! (We are talking about an LTS version ...).
And I must be forgetting something... Seriously people I don't see any point of using Ubuntu to be honest... I'm even not talking at all about non-free vs free software, just talking about "intelligent choices vs stupid choices", and for me those are big "not clever" choices... I can't use this on my laptopt with a Core 2 Duo at 2.6Ghz and a nVidia 9600M GT because it is too slow (with the Nouveau at last).
This is sad indeed... sorry for posting this here I know it is not the good place but just wanted to share that feeling.
[\Information_outside_topic]
I don't like ubuntu also. with there polices. For example restricted
boot. fedora did a better job than ubuntu. However I want my Gnome-shell
and Tribler. Ubuntu is more stable then Debian unstable, by the looks of
things. Though I am looking at Debian unstable and aptosid. Trying to
decide if it would be suitable for my HDA (home server). Arch/Parabola
prints a error msg that I can't escape. It even invades cfdisk! Anyway
something ubuntu based looks like the least work. So I hate to type(say)
it but ubuntu looks best for me. Unless Debian is going to work out ok
for me. I don't like redhat/fedora/blag for there remove of comments
from there kernel and Tribler is also a pain to get working if at all in
fedora.
On 18/10/12 23:01, name at domain wrote:
> [Information_outside_topic]
> I don't want to be mean but... Ubuntu is getting really ugly in all
> terms :S... I use to love this distribution that made me (and a lot of
> people) came to Gnu/Linux, but this is just ridicule, just have a look:
> - We have the Amazon Icon the Unity's bar that opens the website
> - The wallpaper seems something that a drunk guy did with all the old ones.
> - Ubuntu One uses flash to play the musics
> - There is a legal notice on the Dash for the search function
> - The Window Snap continues with the bugs that appear on the 12.04
> Version ! (We are talking about an LTS version ...).
>
> And I must be forgetting something... Seriously people I don't see any
> point of using Ubuntu to be honest... I'm even not talking at all about
> non-free vs free software, just talking about "intelligent choices vs
> stupid choices", and for me those are big "not clever" choices... I
> can't use this on my laptopt with a Core 2 Duo at 2.6Ghz and a nVidia
> 9600M GT because it is too slow (with the Nouveau at last).
>
> This is sad indeed... sorry for posting this here I know it is not the
> good place but just wanted to share that feeling.
> [\Information_outside_topic]
Well I have to be honest with you. I didn't tried a lot of Distributions for Server, but the ones I've tried, I have to say that, if you want something easy to use then use Trisquel, if you want something a little bit harder but better customization, then use Parabola Gnu/Linux.
I would wanted to say Ubuntu instead of Trisquel but I can't promote non-free distributions (even know I almost already done it several times and I'm sorry). But for Trisquel just don't do the same error as me.. don't forget to select an Environment (like the Trisquel Console Environment), or you will have... well... a beautiful, shinny, glossy black screen with nothing :D (Btw is there anyone that could explain to me what is the "Trisquel Sugar on Toast" thing ? That made me laugh for half an hour but I still don't know what is it xD).
PS: For servers, you have Ubuntu Server which is excelent but cames with a lot of non-free software, and worse (!) a lot of Ubuntu garbage like the Ubuntu Landscape message (that is very annoying). Debian I only tried it with Turnkey Linux and it was amazing (even if not good for a personal Server). So my recommend would be (if you don't want to have a lot of work but still are capable of using only the console) to install Trisquel Gnu/Linux (last version available stable) NetInstall, why Net Install ? Because it is small, and only installs what you want and nothing else... (and it says GLAMP :D It is the first Distro that says GLAMP instead of LAMP and just because of that I will donate money when I get some xD).
I mostly recommend terminal-only for a server because (in my opinion) it doesn't make any sense to use precious resources with visual environments, but once again, you are master of you Software and Hardware.
So just to resume this whole messy text (like I always do), install Virtualbox (if you can... I honestly had problems using it on Trisquel to be honest), and just install the version you may like of Trisquel 5.5 (or 6 when it's out), after this just try out stuff :D Install GLAMP (don't forget to select Bridged Network in order to have access from the Host to the Guest), install phpbb3 or moodle or even drupal since it is easier and try out stuff and see if it is what you want and what you need.
I really had in mind to use Parabola GNU/Linux as a server but then I saw all the work done automatically by the .deb version of GLAMP (and others) that are available in Trisquel, Ubuntu, Debian etc... and I just changed my mind :D
(Sorry for the long text... If you need any help with anything, even Parabola, just ask and I would be glad to help)
Sorry. I should have said I was talking about ubuntu base but with with
non-free contamination removed. I didn't say Trisquel because of the
context of a script to decontaminate ubuntu.
Re Parabola. I might try it on my newish main monster PC. So thanks for
the offer.
This ant a webserver but I would like to have http and some HTML. I'm a
web server newbie. I do need to lean for my biz though. network shares,
downloads, backup, etc. So I do plan to have a GUI for stats and
managing and more.
I could use Trisquel but if I am going to make the effort I would like
it to be something a bit more recent or safer in the long term.
I do want Trisquel to live. For at least a few more years so IF my biz
does make money I can become a paying member :). Assuming my distro
choice does not change by then.
On 19/10/12 00:39, name at domain wrote:
> Well I have to be honest with you. I didn't tried a lot of Distributions
> for Server, but the ones I've tried, I have to say that, if you want
> something easy to use then use Trisquel, if you want something a little
> bit harder but better customization, then use Parabola Gnu/Linux.
>
> I would wanted to say Ubuntu instead of Trisquel but I can't promote
> non-free distributions (even know I almost already done it several times
> and I'm sorry). But for Trisquel just don't do the same error as me..
> don't forget to select an Environment (like the Trisquel Console
> Environment), or you will have... well... a beautiful, shinny, glossy
> black screen with nothing :D (Btw is there anyone that could explain to
> me what is the "Trisquel Sugar on Toast" thing ? That made me laugh for
> half an hour but I still don't know what is it xD).
>
> PS: For servers, you have Ubuntu Server which is excelent but cames with
> a lot of non-free software, and worse (!) a lot of Ubuntu garbage like
> the Ubuntu Landscape message (that is very annoying). Debian I only
> tried it with Turnkey Linux and it was amazing (even if not good for a
> personal Server). So my recommend would be (if you don't want to have a
> lot of work but still are capable of using only the console) to install
> Trisquel Gnu/Linux (last version available stable) NetInstall, why Net
> Install ? Because it is small, and only installs what you want and
> nothing else... (and it says GLAMP :D It is the first Distro that says
> GLAMP instead of LAMP and just because of that I will donate money when
> I get some xD).
>
> I mostly recommend terminal-only for a server because (in my opinion) it
> doesn't make any sense to use precious resources with visual
> environments, but once again, you are master of you Software and Hardware.
>
> So just to resume this whole messy text (like I always do), install
> Virtualbox (if you can... I honestly had problems using it on Trisquel
> to be honest), and just install the version you may like of Trisquel 5.5
> (or 6 when it's out), after this just try out stuff :D Install GLAMP
> (don't forget to select Bridged Network in order to have access from the
> Host to the Guest), install phpbb3 or moodle or even drupal since it is
> easier and try out stuff and see if it is what you want and what you need.
>
> I really had in mind to use Parabola GNU/Linux as a server but then I
> saw all the work done automatically by the .deb version of GLAMP (and
> others) that are available in Trisquel, Ubuntu, Debian etc... and I just
> changed my mind :D
>
> (Sorry for the long text... If you need any help with anything, even
> Parabola, just ask and I would be glad to help)
This is just my opinion, but I never liked Ubuntu, not even from its earliest days. It was always too buggy. (Although, if you get a black screen at boot, editing the modeset on the kernel command line in grub.cfg will usually give graphical windows.) The only thing I learned from Ubuntu was to go back to the mothership. Debian never had the issues and buginess that seem to continually plague Ubuntu. And it is ridiculously easy to run only free software on Debian. I've no idea what the point of Ubuntu is, since it has never 'improved' upon the Debian base.
This is not a slam on Trisquel, which obviously reverts Ubuntu bugginess to the point I would have no reason whatsoever to believe Trisquel is even based on Ubuntu.
I could make a long post explaining the problem with Ubuntu but I will do this in that way :
Ubuntu = OsX + Windows + Bugs + Debian
If I could make charts you will see that there was more of Bugs and OsX than Debian but it is good enough to see how this works :D
But really, I have an honest question.. I always ask this and I always the Ubuntu user try to call me ugly names like if I was saying that her mother was a cow or something like that... but.. Does any developer of Ubuntu use Ubuntu nowadays ? I mean seriously, it is slow even on an i7, the Window Snap don't work since 12.04 and haven't been solved since then, Unity is more buggy than OpenBox configured by a 4year kid with root access....
I will stop here before I get to be rude... but they are good people :D
I never had a good experience with Debian to be honest :s... Always had problems with the fact that the packages were 2 years old, and at that time I didn't even know what bash or ppa was... This is why I was always dual-booting between Windows and Ubuntu, until the day Ubuntu turned as my only OS, before installing Arch Linux, and then Trisquel... new step Gnu/Linux from Scratch xD (just kidding... but I've tried all the other FSF approved Distros and they were all bad in some kind of aspect, and some didn't even boot... But this one was just beautiful and easy to use :D
Before Trisquel I used Debian. Despite the software being a little old, it worked well for me.
I think that for non-technical users it would probably be fine to use (as long as they have someone to install and do upgrades - like most Windows users). I know people who happily use old software (sadly proprietary) like IE7 and Office 2007. Many people don't care about the latest and greatest - they use what came with their PC because it works.
I've noticed that some technical people get excited by the latest features in Firefox or LibreOffice, so using old software isn't an option. And there's nothing wrong with that either. That way the new software gets tested as well. :)
Maybe people will disagree with me, but that's been my observation anyway.
You are totally right IMHO, non-technical users won't want to know what kind of software is on their machines, they just want it to work. That can become a problem when, for example, a website X demands a specific tool that requires an update or another OS (like Facebook and Flash), but once again this is something totally different.
I think that, even non-technical user, if they get a little bit interested by what they are using, they will notice, for example, the new Gimp that is out, and they will ask why they don't have the same, this may be a problem, but once again, they have a solution for it (even if this isn't of the like of everyone xD).
In my opinion some software should be updated more often and others not. I mean, I personally don't need a rolling distribution for nothing, I rarely need something the second when it's out xD But I don't want to wait 6 months or 2 years just to update Gimp or LibreOffice (LibreOffice is the real problem, since every version brings new compatibility with Microsoft Office documents, and this is very important to everyone that have to open them). It doesn't need to be out at the second, but 3 months maximum is a good date for a non-LTS distribution.
Debian does have older software this is true, due to their policy. However, that's exactly why Stable is truly stable. I chased the latest code for years, but now I am completely over it. I don't mind older code, as long as it isn't too far behind. When I was on Debian, I switched to the soon-to-be-Stable as soon as Testing was frozen, as is the case presently with Wheezy.
And I respect totally that :D I always say that, if any community should be applauded to the work and dedication, it should be the Debian Community (by community I mostly want to say Developers). It works on every Kernel (Gnu/Linux, Gnu/Hurd, BSD), it works on every computer and piece of hardware (ARM, MIPS, i386, X64,...), and it is very stable, I've tested it for a short amount of time but I never had any bug, or problem with it :D
Since you talked about Wheezy, is he out yet :S ? I mean I searched for it for a long time but didn't found anything, and when I installed Debian I had an hard time switching to the unstable repositories...
Wheezy's still in testing, but I think it should be out early next year. The freeze was a few months ago. I think the Testing is normally releases ~6 months after freeze, give or take.
Debian is great, and they have a large community. But one of the main things I didn't like was that some volunteers and developers are concerned about users who rely on non-free software, which is why they provide a non-free repository. But a few months ago they created a mailing list for FSF-collaboration, which has produced some interesting discussions so far.
Link:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/fsf-collab-discuss/
I thought it was already in the stable line :s.... I can't use the version 6 of Debian because of the kernel, my Asus 1215N needs at least the kernel 3.0 to work properly, but now that I use Parabola and Trisquel this isn't really and issue :D
I really would love to see a totally free Debian version, it would be very nice to anyone :D
That's a pity you couldn't install Debian, but it's good that you are happily running Parabola and Trisquel. Linux is always improving...
For anyone that likes Debian (or uses MIPS), watch this space:
http://www.gnewsense.org/
gNS 3.0 will be based on Squeeze. Two alpha releases of gNS 3.0 have been released so far (one for x86, one for MIPS), but no beta releases yet. The final release still might be a while away (I'm guessing next year sometime).
Wheezy is frozen and due for release early next year. However, if you know Debian, you know the freeze of Testing is more stable than a typical Adbuntu release.
If you need a more recent kernel on Debian, there is always backports. I think the present kernel in Squeeze backports is 3.2. However, I don't know if the libre kernels have options to replace the Debian stable backports kernel.
As far as going from Stable to Sid, or even from Stable to Testing, there is a script available which is extremely helpful named smxi. WARNING: Smxi does make non-free software easily available, since it has the capability to add contrib and non-free repositories. I never used that part of the script though, because I kept a totally free system on Debian. (It would be VERY cool if someone took the smxi script, then purged all of the references to contrib or non-free software.)
Smxi can check packages due to be upgraded, yet automatically refuse to upgrade any packages that will cause problems. So if there are two conflicting versions of X working through Sid, smxi will not upgrade to new apps or libraries that would cause X not to load post upgrade. When I was on Debian, smxi was the only tool I used for upgrades, even though I was running Stable. It works just as well on Testing or Sid though.
Also, I am VERY excited about gNS 3.0. I thought the project was dead until I nosed around the website a few days ago. Are they planning on having an amd64 version? I LOVE to see more all free distros. More free distros = more users who insist on free software. My hope is that leads to businesses seeing a large market they will want to exploit, with more free drivers, etc. gNS 3.0 with a 100% free smxi script would be a dream.
Regarding amd64, an installer for alpha 1 was made available:
http://beta.gnewsense.org/gnewsense-three/installer/3.0-alpha1/
So I would assume that the final version would also have a build for amd64. :)
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