Trisquel 7 feedback (with hardware details)

33 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

I am running an Acer Aspire One. Former Ubuntu user, sat a spell on Debian too. Been running 6 Toutatis for about 2 years. Install stays pretty stable for at least that long, even with me installing a lot of extra packages for testing, so pretty reliable, and simple to use. Easy install, works from a USB with UNetbootin, and I'd been thinking it was about time for a fresh install.

Just installed 7 Belanos on a separate partition. Had a few teething problems with the GRUB2 configuration (see GRUB issues thread), but got that sorted now. IceCat a bit wobbly, particularly with LibreJS turned on, writing this in Abrowser, in a guest session on 7.

A few hardware issues. The display offers a much smaller range of resolutions (800x600 4:3 and 1024x600 16:9) than in 6, which isn't a major problem with one screen, but I haven't yet tested with two. Can't figure out how (or if) to switch from Metacity to Compiz, or change the desktops back to a square (they're in a line by default in 7, why?). The scroll bar on the right-hand edge of the built-in touchpad works in 6, but not in 7, which is a nuisance but tolerable. I can use GUI click-and-drag scroll bars, but using a touchpad with a screen this size makes them fiddly (any way to make the scrollbars appear as wider in Abrowser?).

Is the forum the best way to give such feedback?

Mzee
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Beigetreten: 07/10/2013

The best place for feedback concerning hardware is probably www.h-node.org. Welcome to freedom.

pizzaiolo
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Beigetreten: 03/12/2015

Agreed. Please post this to h-node.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

The reason I'm posting this feedback here is that I'm assuming these are teething problems with Trisquel 7, not general GNU+Linux hardware support issues, because they are things that currently work with this hardware in Trisquel 6. I'm happy to repost to h-node if that would be useful, but could either of you explain why it would be useful?

pizzaiolo
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Beigetreten: 03/12/2015

A quick search for Acer Inspire One on h-node brings up no results, so any hardware feedback you have would be greatly appreciated :)

oysterboy

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Beigetreten: 02/01/2011

You'll get results by searching for 'aspire one' or 'acer aspire'.

alucardx
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Beigetreten: 02/29/2012

I have some hardware that had resolution issues when I moved from Trisquel 6 to Trisquel 7. If I remember right it was an ATI graphics card and in Trisquel 7 the driver module was blacklisted. I removed it from the blacklist and it worked much better.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

What does it mean for a driver module to be "blacklisted"? What are the implications (eg for software freedom) of removing a driver module from the "blacklist"?

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

It just means the module won't be automatically loaded. (Unless required by some other module.) There should be no freedom implications since all the modules in Trisquel are free.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

I do have some weird display issues from time to time, and I have wondered if there is a better libre driver for my screens (built-in screen on Acer Aspire One KAV60, and using the VGA port, an external Dell Flat Panel Monitor 1707FPt). How do I remove a driver module from the blacklist?

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

You could try a newer kernel + x stack. Currently the newest I believe issudo apt-get install --install-recommends {linux-generic,xserver-xorg,libgl1-mesa-glx,libegl1-mesa-drivers}-lts-utopic

To blacklist a module, one puts a file to /etc/modprobe.d/ that contains "blacklist module". You might want toman modprobeman modprobe.conf

Magic Banana

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010

The latest "LTS enablement stack" is based on Ubuntu 15.04 Vivid Vervet (just replace "utopic" with "vivid"). But an even more more recent Linux-libre kernel is available from jxself's repository. https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/update-linux-libre-kernel gives instructions.

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

Thanks. I read somewhere that upstream nowadays upgrades the stack automatically, I wonder if Trisquel 7 actually does it too.

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

What kind of hardware is that? I.e. your output oflspci

Does this make your touchpad scroll work?synclient VertEdgeScroll=1

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

"What kind of hardware is that? I.e. your output of lspci"

>>
strypey@BISHOP:~$ lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GSE Express Memory Controller Hub (rev 03)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GSE Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 02)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 1 (rev 02)
00:1c.1 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 2 (rev 02)
00:1c.2 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 3 (rev 02)
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family PCI Express Port 4 (rev 02)
00:1d.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 02)
00:1d.1 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 02)
00:1d.2 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 02)
00:1d.3 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB UHCI Controller #4 (rev 02)
00:1d.7 USB controller: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 02)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev e2)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801GBM (ICH7-M) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 02)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7-M Family) SATA Controller [AHCI mode] (rev 02)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation NM10/ICH7 Family SMBus Controller (rev 02)
01:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR8132 Fast Ethernet (rev c0)
<<

"Does this make your touchpad scroll work?"

Yes! Thank you!

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

Glad to hear you're scrolling again!

To fix the resolution issue it might be worth trying a newer kernel from e.g. https://jxself.org/linux-libre/

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

I have to re-run the command every time I login though. Is there any way to make the change permanent?

I'm happy to try a newer kernel with 7, but the kernel it comes with by default is surely newer than the one in 6, so why does the newer one not have a capacity that the older one has? Sorry to be a pain, but I have a sneaking feeling there is GNU+Linux user wisdom involved here that I haven't grasped yet.

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

You can put the command to /etc/rc.local. You need to be a super user to edit that file. Put it before the exit command! :)

Sometimes things go backwards instead of forwards. Trying a newer kernel is just something that's easy to try. :-/

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

Thanks for the help, but I'm ashamed to admit the problem was partly user error. Be default, Trisquel 7 supports a two-finger scroll style I'm not used to. The command you gave me changed that back to the 'one-finger on the right-hand edge of the scroll bar' scroll style I was used to on 6. Now that I'm remember to use the two-finger scroll, I'm fine :)

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

In a thread of GRUB issues, we drifted into some general feedback on 7:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/grub-issues#comment-73834

onpon4 wrote about the lack of easy access to Compiz in 7:
"The tool you're talking about was from the Trisquel devs, and it was dropped in Trisquel 7. You now need to enable Compiz by yourself. The script is pretty simple, though, so you could copy it from Trisquel 6 to Trisquel 7, or 8 (whatever you upgrade to next), or just read it to understand how to enable Compiz manually."

Ok. So does the script you speak of download Compiz from the repositories before it does anything else? Or is it that Compiz is still in the default install, but there's no longer a GUI way to turn it on?

Magic Banana

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010

Compiz is not part of Trisquel 7's default install but is in the repository.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

Yes, this is what Onpon told me, as quoted in the comment you're replying to.

What I need to know to get Compiz working again in Trisquel 7 is:
* what is this special Trisquel/Compiz script called, and where do I install it from or copy it from (online? copy from my 6 install?)
* do I install Compiz from the repos first, then the script?
OR, install the script first, then Compiz?
OR, is installing Compiz one of jobs done automatically when I runing the script?

Magic Banana

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010

Just follow the documentation: https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/compiz

onpon4
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Beigetreten: 05/30/2012

Compiz was installed by default on Trisquel 6. All the script did was tweak some configuration scripts so that Compiz would actually run instead of Metacity, or vice-versa.

cooloutac
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Beigetreten: 06/27/2015

I would like to know about this script too. I have installed it and made a .desktop file to autostart it in trisquel 7, but I have run into a problem i had to work around.

namely this bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz-fusion-plugins-extra/+bug/819302

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

Thanks again lembas, I'll have a go at upgrading my kernel. A question about kernels, what are linux-generic-headers packages, and why are they sometimes held back when I run sudo apt-get upgrade?

Magic Banana, thanks for the clarification about Compiz. Why has it not been included in Trisquel 7? Stability problems? Nonfree dependencies? Other?

I'm just testing Trisquel 7 with my external flat-screen display (Dell), which plugged into my Acer (see above) via VGA. Still using Metacity. The performance is actually just the same as on 6.

Using the Display applet in System Settings, the Dell has 4 resolution options available, the built-in screen has 2. If I set the built-in screen to the lesser of the two options (800x600 4:3), and the Dell to the second highest option (1152x864 4:3), everything seems to work ok. I can only use the best option on the Dell (1280x1024 5:4) if I turn off the built-in screen completely. I can use the best option on the built-in screen (1024x600 16:9), which is better for the shape of the screen, but I have to change the Dell down to 1024x768 4:3.

If I try to put both screens on the better option, or change the built-in screen up without changing the Dell down the desktops are visible, but display response slows to a crawl. I'm assuming that's because either my CPU or graphics chips are not up to the job, but I'd love to discover I'm wrong about that :)

Magic Banana

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010

Why has it not been included in Trisquel 7? Stability problems? Nonfree dependencies? Other?

Metacity is the default window manager. The default install normally comes with one application per task. The question therefore becomes "why does Trisquel 6 comes with both Metacity and Compiz?". I do not have the answer.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

In that case I think the question is "why is Metacity the default, rather than Compiz?" Compiz is much more helpful to use IMHO.

moxalt
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Beigetreten: 06/19/2015

Not to mention far heavier on the hardware.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

Sure, but if old/ slow harware is a problem, surely that's what Trisquel Mini is for?

My laptop is a least 5 years old "netbook", and runs Compiz in Trisquel 6 with no noticeable issues. I tried switching to Metacity. I didn't notice it make anything work faster, it just made it harder to use. For example in Compiz I can hold CTRL and ALT and tap the right arrow and the down arrow, to get directly from desktop 1 top desktop 4. To do the same in Metacity I have to tap the right arrow three times and wait for the window manager to draw and redraw the two desktops in between. First world problems I know :) But annoying all the same.

onpon4
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Beigetreten: 05/30/2012

Compiz was experimented with in Trisquel 6, but it turned out to cause problems with accessibility, so Trisquel 7 returned to just using Metacity by default.

strypey
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Beigetreten: 05/14/2015

Fair enough, but Toutatis included both, with Compiz as default. Why not do the same in Belenos, but with Metacity as default? Does even having it on the system as an opt-in disrupt accessibility too? If so, again fair enough. If not, I'm putting in a +1 for bundling both in future Trisquel releases.

Speaking of accessibility, I understand and agree with the decision to have Orca turned on by default in the graphical installer. Would it be possible to have instructions for how to turn it off right at the start of the install? A button that toggles it off would be ideal, but a simple text instruction for the shortcut keys to turn it off would be enough. Again, first world problems, but...

Magic Banana

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Beigetreten: 07/24/2010

With that logic, why not installing all window managers by default? The problem is it would not only eat up space on the installation ISO, but it would also mean more utilities (to choose the window manager and configure each of the the options), hence more confusion.

I use Mutter. GNOME 3's default, i.e., the window manager GNOME Shell uses. The evolution of Metacity. I specified keyboard shortcuts (in the related tab of the "Keyboard" utility in the "System settings") to jump to any of the ten first workspaces.

lembas
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Beigetreten: 05/13/2010

> A question about kernels, what are linux-generic-headers packages, and why are they sometimes held back when I run sudo apt-get upgrade?

Apparently they're used to build third-party modules for your kernel.

Sometimes you need to dist-upgrade instead. From the manual page of apt-get(8):

upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in /etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed. New versions of currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without
changing the install status of another package will be left at their current version. An update must be performed first so that apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available.

dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if necessary. So, dist-upgrade command may remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for overriding the general settings for individual packages.

So long story short, if a new package install is wanted, dist-upgrade is required.

E.g. different kernels come in different packages. And you need the matching version of headers with your image.