Arrested for filming : CEO of ThinkPenguin, Inc arrested for filming police : faces up to year in prison

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Chris

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I thought some people here might be interested in a recent freedom related (not software related though) arrest that occurred the other day. I was essentially arrested for filming a police checkpoint in Manchester, New Hampshire (police invoked non-existent law to interfere with recording, made multiple contradicting and confusing requests, and were quick to obstruct and damage video recording equipment). Papers please. I don't think I'll be posting this to the ThinkPenguin blog as its irrelevant to free software / the company / etc. However I thought people here might be interested in following the case. The entire trial will be highly publicized, recorded, etc. One of the officers humorously threatens me with a motor vehicle violation. To be clear I was not drinking, not driving, had no car nearby (got there via another driver which had his car parks two or three blocks away), and in no way under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Most likely I have a slam dunk case against the Manchester police department for violating my rights to record (Glik v. Cunniffe), violations of their authority to conduct the checkpoint (they'll likely end up in contempt once appropriate paperwork is filed with the superior court under which they had authority to operate said checkpoint), and interfering with the freedom of the press. There are multiple related parts to the incident including lawsuits, prior notices to quit harassment of us (the media), further complaints (required to bring a lawsuit in New Hampshire), motions to the superior court in regards to illegal police activity in relation to the checkpoint itself (the authority under which a checkpoint can legally be operated), a possible criminal trial (if it does not get dismissed or similar), etc.

Assuming the charges don't change before my arraignment it's a Class A Misdemeanor with up to a year in jail. This would entitle me to a jury. If instead it gets dropped to a Class B Misdemeanor I'll be denied my right to a trial by a jury of my peers. Provided nothing changes the charges shouldn't stick as I did not violate the all encompassing 'disorderly conduct' charge. To be specific it's a "disorderly conduct" charge that I was arrested for, but this can be changed before the arraignment (doesn't usually happen though). If your interested you can hear more about the arrest on the Free Talk Radio show that I co-host on Friday nights:

https://www.freetalklive.com/podcast/2017-04-21

There will also be video posted of the incident leading up to the point of my arrest at http://www.freetalklive.com/ (my video was seized, but experienced correspondents bring back up, as I did, we had several people apart from the nearly 20 activists protesting the checkpoint with video cameras)

You can also watch other police accountability videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos

You can find a similar 'stand your ground' video of me in a different context that was posted a few weeks ago (no arrests were made, as again, I'm an experienced media correspondent and aware of the laws, and police tactics, plus it doesn't hurt when you are with people who've already won numerous lawsuits against the police):

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos

Also there are probably hundreds of police, state house hearings, and similar (where I and others have testified on freedom-connected issues like Bitcoin, crypto currency deregulation in relation to money transmitters, and drones particular concerning for drone operator privacy to more mundane issues including drug decrim and bureaucratic employer regulations making employers ask permission for and file paperwork to pay employees every two weeks instead of one- of which only a few states even require), and similar encounters over the past year + mostly of me yet-to-be published (though others have published videos of whom I was with in many cases see above two links).

Chris

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Correction. At least one video will be posted leading up to the arrest and probably of the arrest itself at http://www.freekeene.com/ and related videos from other media outlets of the arrest that night will be posted at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos

I do not know what if any major media outlets might pick it up at this point. It's not unusual though.

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Chris

One thing is too film, the good, the bad and the ugly. but remember, the saying: "the coin has to sides", but to be belligerent, disrespectful, and aggressive verbally gives then a reason to arrest.. one thing is to do your civic duty, but to instigate negatively is a form of aggression. I saw the video you posted the link, yes it is your right to film but to cross the line with those words is too much.

respectfully

Chris

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The officers are the ones instigating here. It's not necessarily apparent. They came to us knowing full well that we were within our right to record under Glik v. Cunniffe. When I crossed part of the street I knowingly stayed at the sidewalk between the east and west bound lanes as to not interfere. When an officer comes to you it's them interfering with recording and not the other way around. You can legally get as close as a foot to an officer provided there is no interference. So for instance one can get a few feet from a scene as a member of the press where an officer is ticketing somebody for an offence.

In this case there was a clear violation of the authority under which they had to operate the checkpoint in the first place. Disorderly conduct in New Hampshire is broad, but can't be violated here. I was not being detained here and the officers went to an immediate arrest. Up to the point of the arrest the officers were issuing requests- not orders. The officer post-arrest then retroactively told me he was issuing an order.

If an officer asks for your name while your not being detained you have no obligation to provide it or provide an accurate name. It's only after detainment that I would have to provide a name. The officer asks for ID, not my name. There is no obligation to have ID on you let alone provide it on request. Officers routinely make it sound as if they are giving an order rather than making a request. For instance "I'm going to have to ask for your ID". That's a request, not an order.

The police can't simply setup a checkpoint. They have to get an order from the superior court that lays out a plan to conduct a checkpoint and then must follow that plan exactly. The officers involved exceeded their limited jurisdiction (normally an officer has jurisdiction everywhere in the state of New Hampshire, but not here, and that isn't true of every state). We're going to file a motion with the superior court as they were in contempt of the order. We obtained the document under which they were legally allowed to operate said checkpoint and there were multiple violations. Humorously while they normally take forever to respond we've got some pretty good people here and were able to obtain it that night.

tct
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Outrageous! It's not the first time I learn about USA Police abuse. At the end of 2015 this has had a tragic impact on our free software community too, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Murdock#Death

Chris

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Yea- the circumstances were very different in that case. Ian Murdock sadly had problems. I've got no mental health issues to report. Even during the worst of health conditions I had a number of years ago for which would cause anybody to want to commit suicide I was not suicidal. The problem I had warranted suicide if not resolved quickly and just thinking about it puts chills down my spine. I did not want to die even if I knew I could not live with the pain (I had/have a neurological condition which was at the time causing the most severe constant pain you can't even imagine and no medication would relieve it, the pain was so bad as to keep me huddled in a ball for days on end without sleep, I ended up in the emergency room three times in two days, and it took one of three specialists in pain management in the country putting me on a cocktail of drugs to dull the pain enough to keep living... the pain was lulled to a constant dull pain for about a year on the drug cocktail and then another year after I got off the drugs.. from time to time I have certain symptoms that freak me out where I get certain pain that was a symptom, but fortunately it has not come back, possibly because I take pretty good care of myself now, relative to the insane sleep pattern and a general deprivation of sleep I put myself through to get funds for getting ThinkPenguin off the ground.. fortunately I was only out of commission for three months and I had an old friend who managed to step in and help out with keeping the business afloat during this time).

Humorously I realized just how normalized I've gotten to confronting (that is confronting illegal behaviour against those of us filming other illegal police behaviour, as otherwise when cops don't come up to us, we don't get involved, as we're just reporting on, rather than initiating interactions) abusive and illegal police behaviour on the street. Despite that I've never been arrested I noticed that I lacked any adrenalin rush this night. My heart was not beating severely during any part of the incident, arrest, handcuffing, being put into a transport vehicle, booking, caging, intimidation, mocking (they made fun of my hearing issue and numerous offices insulted me, calling be a "free stater", and illegally labelling me a "free stater", which apparently is my "gang affiliation"), etc.

Personally I prefer to not curse directly at police even when they're acting violently against us. Some of my colleagues on the other hand take full advantage of free speech laws and will respond to abusive police actions with insults and name calling. I don't think that's the right approach to take even if it is warranted. It looks bad and childish. I didn't do a perfect job that night I was arrested. It appears I cursed on camera although it isn't entirely clear in my communication with another correspondent in reaction to the unbelievable behaviour of the officers breaking or attempting to break the camera and that doesn't come off well. However the one person I'm thinking of in particular who will curse at officers breaking the law (at least interfering with our job which is to record) has never been arrested in the seven years of reporting on police. He exclusively reports on police whereas I'm reporting on all sorts of different activists, police, state house hearings, court hearings, protests, rallies, technical topics like EOMA68 and FCC stuff, and similar.

tct
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I wasn't aware Ian had any mental health problems. Citation, please?

I'm glad that you take good care of your health now, nobody can do that better than yourself and you can't go on with your work if you are not healthy.

Chris

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I'm not sure I can cite a source for the mental health issues. Nothing I can find with a two second search or on wikipedia outside that he purportedly committed suicide. It's something that was reasonably well known amongst those who knew him.

tct
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Then I wish you haven't said that. He was working for Docker, a well known free software project. I doubt he could work if he had mental issues.

https://blog.docker.com/2015/12/ian-murdock/

People are usually quick to label others just because they're different. Leah's past description of Richard Stallman as "contemptible human being" comes to my mind now.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170106235538/https://libreboot.org/why-not-gnu/

Ian is not alive to be able to defend himself, but I hope that others who knew him will defend his memory.

Magic Banana

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Well, I do not know if you would label "loneliness, depression, plus gender dysphoria and substance abuse" as "mental issues" but these are Leah's words to describe her own issues that have not prevented her from being the main contributor of Libreboot, "a well known free software project". Brilliant developers can have problems. Ian Murdock included: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock_autopsy/

tct
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Actually, all these have prevented her from contributing with a line of code to Libreboot.

"Over the past six months, the Libreboot project has been in a state of discord. [...] Friendships broken, lines of code never written: the chaos needs to come to an end.

https://libreboot.org/news/unity.html

Emphasize on "lines of code never written". Hence no release in the past six months.

Chris

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If I'm not mistaken my choice of words demonstrates a respect within the context of describing someone whose experienced a medical problem within the context of those with any range of psychological, drug related, or similar problems. I don't mean any disrespect to those who have or have had problems. I also do not believe such problems should be looked down upon nor should we be afraid to talk about them particularly when the person is already passed away. There is simply no shame in it and I'd condone those who would imply there is. There simply is no more harm that can be caused to that person which might otherwise be argued had the person been alive. If anything talking about it eliminates whatever shame those with malicious intent would like to spread.

tct
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You are mistaken. You shouldn't go on public forums making suppositions about the "mental health" of a dead well-known person without any medical evidence. A traumatic experience (such as being arrested and abused by the police) alone can make a person commit suicide, especially if that person has never had problems with the police before.

tct
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People can commit suicide after being abused/humiliated, without having any psychological problems before. Just look at the many cases of rape victims that have hurt themselves or even committed suicide.

Chris

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I'm not debating you on this. You want to know more about his mental health state prior to the legal encounter go do your own homework. There is this thing called a search engine. Use it. I also didn't state that police interactions can't cause those without prior mental health problems to hurt themselves or commit suicide.

And continuing to claim EOMA68 is NOT libre hardware is libel. Even the schematics were released and just because your not competent enough to understand what was released doesn't make it not libre hardware. Besides the fact the hardware hasn't shipped yet so no code or designs even need to be released. Making the claim when you know full well it's been entirely designed around components which do not depend on non-libre code is libel. The schematics have nothing to do with whether or not it is libre hardware within the context of free software movement. Despite that all meanings of libre hardware have been satisfied anyway to the maximum degree feasibly achievable short of maybe raising 10s of million if not billions of dollars to design each of the individuals chips such that one could release the design files / masks of individual components at the hardware level.

Rather than attacking your competitor maybe you could actually make a useful contribution rather than just taking advantage of those who actually are making real contributions to this community.

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Could somebody please point me to what's been released, or where I would find it. I don't wish to take sides here- frankly, hardware liberty has little to do with my support of the campaign- but it obviously would be good to at least have an objective basis from which to draw conclusions.

Sorry if this shows my ignorance or laziness- not being particularly knowledgeable about hardware, I've simply not been much involved in the EOMA68(-A20) discussion (either passively or actively).

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I don't have exact references, because a lot of time has passed since
the discussion happened.

Note that I do remember seeing discussions between those involved in
Libre Tea Computer Card (not EOMA68, but the only computer that is
seeking RYF certification and that is compliant with EOMA68) and those
against it due to not being free/libre hardware.

However, as I said earlier, *some* of these against Libre Tea Computer
Card due to "not being free/libre hardware" are missing a priority
issue. Despite being right in that it's *not* free/libre hardware yet,
we mustn't completely undermine the effort to provide a product that is
seeking RYF certification and *could* serve to foster development of
free/libre hardware.

For more information on the issue: you can contact the people
responsible for the Libre Tea Computer Card (as shown in their Crowd
Supply page), and if you want to take up the other side, you can contact
tct (which is in this forum/mailing list, if I'm not mistaken).

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Thank you for your help- I'll try contacting the individuals you mentioned. My point of curiosity was in regard to whether or not it /is/ free hardware currently. At least knowing that it's not is a good start.

As I've said above, though, I don't wish to take sides (beyond what's objectively established). Like you pointed out, this *could* serve as a base for free hardware development- the more important thing is that we've now got a standard for combining computers with peripheral shells. With that, the cost of liberation should drop (because you don't have to replace the whole thing).

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You're welcome! :)

Chris

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The hardware hasn't been manufactured yet so of course the final designs aren't released, but that isn't what makes something libre hardware anyway within the context of free software. The hardware which has been designed is not dependant on any proprietary software pieces. That's the key thing that makes it libre hardware. Anyway. The designs for the hardware have been released (to the extent that it's prototypes have been manufactured, even if never shipped, as they are prototypes). That means no matter what definition you'd like to use it is libre hardware.

On the software side of things Parabola GNU/Linux-libre has been demo'd on the prototypes and there is code for everything here far above and beyond any other laptop on the market. Not just does Parbabola GNU/Linux-libre run on it, but so is the code available for things like keyboard and LCD controller components. The idea it's not librea hardware is just propaganda/FUD by someone whose not putting freedom ahead of his personal vendetta against me. tct is attacking EOMA68 because of an irrational fear that if we succeed his little business won't. It makes no sense when he's building off the work we and others are doing.

I've thrown a ton of money at this in the hopes we can make some real freedom respecting hardware beyond anything that is feasible today within the realm of laptops, smart phones, tablets, and similar sorts of devices, and helped raise another $200,000 USD to see that not only do we get the designs developed, but that it can get manufactured.

Luke whose the head engineer behind this has spent many years on getting this project to work. He's not profiting off it. It's little more than a volunteer position with barely enough money to cover things like rent, food, and similar essentials. If he didn't care about freedom he wouldn't be doing this work and its really sad to see anyone attack him for it.

If it fails it won't be because we didn't give it our all. It was the only project that seemed to have a decent chance of success if properly funded at the time I got involved.

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Please note that I've no intention of attacking the project. I backed it- everything from a demonstrable commitment to liberty and environmental conscience to the disproportionately impressive concept of internal USB ports- and am thus far satisfied with Luke's updates on progress, even if that does mean delays. Nor do I wish to condemn ThinkPenguins' involvement- this was definitely worth the investment, and I am grateful for your willingness to support a great concept.

What I was requesting was some guidance as to how I would find the actual designs published. I'm not greatly vested in what has and what has not- hardware liberty is not a significant issue for me, except as pertaining to firmware- but I've yet to actually see anything. I'm simply asking if somebody could advise me on where I would look, so that I (and perhaps others) can understand exactly what is being discussed.

Magic Banana

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There are medical evidences. And testimonies (e.g., from his neighbor). I have already given you a link and I give it again: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock_autopsy/

If you prefer the original document to the summary made by a journalist: https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock.pdf

Chris

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Thank you! I knew it wasn't some secret hush hush thing. It's sad what happened, but best to talk about these things I feel than ignore them.

yeehi
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Off Topic

Why is the EOMA68-A20 not Libre?

ADFENO
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I guess it's better to start new topic on this.

I can tell you that this is a priority issue, again. People are
undermining providers of hardware products that work (and include) the
most with free/libre software known by mankind by default, because,
according to these people "the product must provide also free/libre
hardware designs". However, this is *not* a requirement for the Respects
Your Freedom certification, see:
[[http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom]].

However, I do agree with them in regards to that "it's not free", but,
as the certification would suggest, if it gets approved, it "respects
your freedom" to run free/libre software, so much that it runs
free/libre software to the extent known by the certification evaluators.

Another important thing is naming, *EOMA-68 is a standard, not a
product*. The most freedom respecting EOMA-68 compliante product is
called Libre Tea Computer Card, all the other "Computer Cards" aren't,
please be careful with naming, because there where multiple issues with
this in Parabola, so much that I had to spend some weeks helping to
revise some text in the Parabola news section.

> Off Topic
>
> Why is the EOMA68-A20 not Libre?
>

--
- [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno]]
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
gratis).
- "WhatsApp"? Ele não é livre, por isso não uso. Iguais a ele prefiro
GNU Ring, ou Tox. Quer outras formas de contato? Adicione o vCard
que está no endereço acima aos teus contatos.
- Pretende me enviar arquivos .doc, .ppt, .cdr, ou .mp3? OK, eu
aceito, mas não repasso. Entrego apenas em formatos favoráveis ao
/software/ livre. Favor entrar em contato em caso de dúvida.

Chris

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Well, I'm not sure I'd say EOMA68 isn't libre. It's a libre standard. It's available for others to utilize as well in their own device designs within the scope of designing free software hardware. Though that said we can start talking about certain aspects of what is being manufactured. There is the Libre Tea Computer Card. That is going to get RYF'd once there is a finished run and the cards can be submitted to the FSF for certification- which is a condition of RYF certification. The laptop housing and the desktop housing can also be RYF'd. Certain internal issues at the FSF and how it operates have made the crowd funding campaign a bit challenging and tct is taking advantage of that to claim it's not libre. I can't help that the FSF did not have any means of certifying it RYF prior to the finished product being manufactured. We attempted to get them to do that- but it's just not how they've setup RYF. Instead they made a statement of support and looked at and had some of the prototype hardware (we sent them a desktop housing I believe and a prototype card). The prototypes were unfortunately damaged and not properly reviewed. However those most apt to and capable of reviewing the hardware for RYF are those involved in LibreCMC's development and working on the designs (Luke). The idea that the FSF is going to somehow be able to do a better job than us is humorous. This is not an attack on the FSF- but merely it's just an issue of resources and whose got the people with the skills to actually do these reviews. The FSF is essentially placing a stamp of approval (or will be) on hardware we already know should pass RYF. If it doesn't I'd begin to question RYF. The LibreBoot'd RYF laptops are far more questionable than the Libre Tea Computer card, desktop housing, or laptop housing. Right now the devices which you can say are truly libre to the maximum extant seemingly possible amount to the RYF wifi adapters we worked on and the wireless routers. I'm not sure about the 3d printer, but it could be as well. The sound adapter that was RYF'd is also libre. We've utilized the same chipset in one of our products for many many years. If there are some other items I'm not thinking of which were RYF'd there might be some other simple devices I'd agree are similarly equally as libre (again within the software context as none of these designs have had schematics released as far as I'm aware and none of them have had deeper level info released like at the component level).

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Something said in your comment stood out to me:

> labelling me a "free stater", which apparently is my "gang affiliation"), etc

For that to be said to you most likely means you've had a federal designation applied. This would mean that you may be subject to enhancements added to any actions/ charges/ sentencings, etc. This changes much and you should exercise extreme caution as 'the rules' are likely different for you than an everyday American. The deal you believe you have in your hand may not be the cards you're actually playing with. I'd strongly advise you contact the ACLU or a local civil liberties legal clinic (many universities have them) who specialise in matters such as yours immediately. There is no margin for "wait and see". This is from a similar case:

https://youtu.be/tvAYbnY1I-0

(sorry about the youtube)

Yup, it's a glib and bubble gum music vlog but I hope it drives home what you're most likely about to face just by having a designation applied (you really need to find out if you actually have). Do your research and take care of you :)

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Yea- I'm aware. Nobody has had harsher penalties applied as of yet so if they did it would be quite a case considering the very meaning contradicts the accusation and labelling. Free stater implies participation in the Free State Project which is a migration of those who believe in freedom and liberty to New Hampshire to partake in peaceful change. The very foundations of which are nobody should utilize violence against peaceful people. Neither the state nor oneself where there has been no violence. That is called the non-aggression principle and it's the bedrock principle of those participating in the Free State Project. This is almost pacifist philosophy if not for the belief in the right to use violence in self defence. ie someone aims a gun at you and threatens to kill you you'd be perfectly within your right to return fire killing the other person. The state comparatively is dependant on violence to exist. If you don't do what it says you will be incarcerated even if you've not committed any act of violence yourself. Even the mere presence of a police officer's statements could be reasonably constructed as an act of violence as failure to obey an illegal order is a crime upon which they are empowered to utilize violence against you (ie making an arrest, incarcerating, kidnapping, etc).

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Sorry to hear that Chris, fascism is a big problem indeed. I hope everything turn out fine in the end.

Meglio_Mignotta_Che_Poliziotta.jpg
Jodiendo
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Tell me something what is the difference between a fascism and a total libertarian person in reference to obedience and the law?

Chris

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Yea- I kinda want to yell out "here piggy piggy piggy, want a doughnut?" sometimes. It would make for a very entertaining video. Hilariously I think it would apply to me more than many officers though. I am unfortunately not in the best shape of my life despite being fairly active. I'm not that terrible relatively speaking. Probably less than 200 lbs. A high calorie diet and a relatively sedentary job and all that, though I am trying to drink more water and less sugary drinks. If I don't watch it I'll be 300 lbs before I know it.

Humorously after one police encounter in Concord we caught half a dozen cop cars all at Dunkin' Donuts. It was funny because of how stereotypical it was and the number of police at that. I've not published the video although I probably should.

SuperTramp83

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>Bicycling has helped me mentally during times of extreme stress, so I second that.

Bicycling is for open sores fanboys. Hard core free software doods do base jumping. I myself grow out of it years ago, now I just run blindfolded on the superhighway. I'm very fit.

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SuperTramp83

Why would I want to base-jump out a bridge or a mountain? Well. the answer is found on your age!..Either you mature and every bone starts hurting, at late age.

Me, I have to admitted my record stands at 60 jumps. Yes, I got my jump wings "airborne" at age 21.. Will I do it again?
HELL yes!.
It help paid for my bills all the time. plus it was fun to do, except, when some one try to shoot at you, while you are coming down fast, from a 500 feet combat jump. lucky no one got killed, except the jerk who was firing.

but TO run blindfolded on the superhighway that takes cojones de locos.....LOL

SuperTramp83

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cojones de loco indeed

:'D

Chris

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Not sure if I followed you, but I'd probably contribute to Bogatov's legal defence fund if you got a few dollars:

https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/free-dmitry-bogatov-freebogatov

At this point I'm still mostly waiting on some motions I filed to get the evidence and anything else they might try and use against me.

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A story has been written and the video has been posted:

http://freekeene.com/

The video you see here is video from another media correspondent of me, and it does not place me in the best of light. I had no reason to think I'd be arrested that night. I took no initiative to make myself look good for the camera. I admittedly look like a 'hoodlum' (or a 1990s teenager) in both the image Ian decided to use (it was a protest for NH independence) and the video itself.

Without understanding the background and routine abuse by police of media in New Hampshire it's hard to see this in its proper context and my choice of clothing doesn't help. Manchester police are the worst. You don't want to be arrested in Manchester. The police in other parts of New Hampshire can be jerks- but they tend to refrain more from making arrests due to other lawsuits from prior filming arrests which were found to be illegal.

That's the problem with non-antagonistic action. If you intentionally go in and 'bait them' the police look bad and people will call you out for it. If you don't you end up looking bad when they come to you- and people still make that accusation- because it's not initiated nor planned- so the police do things that make it appear one way when it's not that way at all. There is something to be said of those who 'bait them', but I don't partake in that. I was purely acting as a media correspondent here trying to get better video, and the officers came to us. I had intended to cross over to the middle sidewalk as we've done many many times before without issue (in other areas, and it did surprise me at how unprofessional the officers were in the scenario after ward, they think they are all powerful, and in some respects are). There is no 'jaywalking' offence in New Hampshire outside of specific conditions for which we did not violate.

See rsa 265:36 for details of what is and isn't legal:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxi/265/265-mrg.htm

This was what happened:

The sidewalk on the other side was closed off far in advance of any 'safety' issue so they had clear intent to keep us from filming. That was not authorized by the superior court's order which made this a 'constitutional' checkpoint. I don't believe any checkpoint is constitutional, but to the extant the courts say it is they (the police) should be obeying the law themselves and they were clearly not. The checkpoint plan that was authorized also states various other things like the officers have to be courteous and polite. It also states they are limited to two minutes per car and they can't make anybody step out of the car. The officers were opening peoples car doors and committing various other violations of the authorization. Much of this I only picked up on after I saw the videos from others.

strypey
Offline
Joined: 05/14/2015

Solidarity Chris. Nice to see this here. Freedom is not just an issue in software. It's an issue in software because it's an issue in *everything* that involves people. I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet, but I expect to see support from both sides of the aisle. Police throwing their weight around, far beyond their actual legal powers, is something I hope is just as offensive to right-libertarian and @-cap types as it is to civil libertarians on the left, if not more so.

Kia kaha (stand strong)
Strypey

stas730 (not verified)
stas730

I hate any law/rules "how to life".