How can I check for compatibility before purchasing a new computer?
Hello. I am a free software user. My computer is out of service and I need to buy a new one (laptop). I have a list of candidate models that are locally sold (I can't purchase online, so Minifree computers are not an option). I am asking for your advice: How can I check if any of these models is compatible with free software and has no freedom-related problems (like requiring proprietare drivers or firmware, Intel AMT, etc.)?.
A acquantaince has suggested the Dell 15 5000, he says that it doesn't require any proprietary sofware. Would anyone please help me verify that?.
I have searched each model in my list in H-node but they are not listed and I searched with DuckDuckGo too but I couldn't find anything relevant. Are there other sites where I can check for compatibility (either the whole computer or the chipset)?.
Note: I am writing this from a borrowed Android tablet (hence my user name) and it is very difficult to write long texts like this.
Thanks.
> has no freedom-related problems
All of them do. It's a matter of how big the freedom-related problems are. The best you can get are the Libreboot laptops (which, of course, are refurbished, not new), though some ARM devices like the OpenPandora can be used in a reduced capacity with the same low amount of proprietary software. (Personally, I'm excited for the Pyra, which seems like it'll probably be coming out this year.)
Even new x86 computers that are completely compatible with Trisquel include features which are so powerful that they are effectively universal backdoors. For Intel CPUs, that's called the Intel Management Engine, or "ME". It is mandatory in every Intel CPU these days (has been so for a few years now). The ME is literally capable of doing anything to your computer remotely, including reading everything.
> A acquantaince has suggested the Dell 15 5000
Dell is one of the companies that implements digital restrictions to restrict what wireless cards you can use with its computers. Just for this reason, you should avoid them. If Think Penguin (http://libre.thinkpenguin.com) is above your budget, some companies that don't seem to be implementing digital restrictions are ASUS and Acer.
If you do go that route, I'd suggest trying a Trisquel live CD on the machine, and if something doesn't work, return it. You'll need to get the computer from a store that accepts the return, of course. The thing is, even if one of a laptop model works with Trisquel, a slightly different revision might not.
I am a translator!
Hi. Basically what you want to check is the GPU and the wifi adapter. The wifi adapter better be an Atheros AR9xxx or AR5xxx series. The GPU must not, and I repeat, **must not** be an ATI. All Intel GPUs older than Skylake will do perfectly fine. Most Nvidia GPUs (I have 0 experience personally with those though) AFAIK should work decently.
If you set up a live trisquel usb stick you can just ask the store-dood if you can try it and see if it works, and if he says yes then check if there is wifi signal and write in a terminal **glxinfo | grep rendering** and if the output says "yes" it means you are golden.
> glxinfo | grep rendering ** and if the output says "yes" it means you are golden.
This used to be so but is no longer true. I've got an ancient ATI card and it says yes for me.
Hello. I am a free software user. My computer is out of service and I need to
buy a new one (laptop). I have a list of candidate models that are locally
sold (I can't purchase online, so Minifree computers are not an option). I am
asking for your advice: How can I check if any of these models is compatible
with free software and has no freedom-related problems (like requiring
proprietare drivers or firmware, Intel AMT, etc.)?.
A acquantaince has suggested the Dell 15 5000, he says that it doesn't
require any proprietary sofware. Would anyone please help me verify that?.
I have searched each model in my list in H-node but they are not listed and I
searched with DuckDuckGo too but I couldn't find anything relevant. Are there
other sites where I can check for compatibility (either the whole computer or
the chipset)?.
Note: I am writing this from a borrowed Android tablet (hence my user name)
and it is very difficult to write long texts like this.
Thanks.
I am a translator!
On all hardware I checked it on glxinfo | grep rendering works just fine.
Are you saying I'm lying? Or perhaps I can't enter the command or interpret
the output?
I am a translator!
lembas, I'm saying that I think it is very probable the command works on *most* hardware. I believe it does not on yours for I don't think you would have any reason to say so if that wasn't indeed the case.
I am a translator!
On all hardware I checked it on glxinfo | grep rendering works just fine.
Are you saying I'm lying? Or perhaps I can't enter the command or interpret the output?
I am a translator!
lembas, I'm saying that I think it is very probable the command works on
*most* hardware. I believe it does not on yours for I don't think you would
have any reason to say so if that wasn't indeed the case.
> glxinfo | grep rendering ** and if the output says "yes" it means you are
golden.
This used to be so but no longer true. I've got an ancient ATI card and it
says yes for me.
"How can I check for compatibility before purchasing a new computer?"
Simple: Put Trisquel on a CD or USB stick. Boot up the computer using that and see how things work.
Since you cannot shop online, that greatly reduces your options for total freedom (minifree/libiquity)
Then,from these laptops you have short listed,the simple method will be to make a trisquel 7 live USB (very easy) and the laptop with working WiFi whilst running a live trisquel environment is your best candidate.
All the best in getting a new laptop.
I hope you can, at least, get a compatible Wifi adapter online (at ThinkPenguin or Tehnoetic). If so, just buy any computer with an Intel processor (including the graphical chipset), without Windows and not from Dell, Toshiba, HP, Apple, IBM or Lenovo (hardware DRMs). The Intel processor should be pre-Skylake and without the "vPro Technology" and the "Trusted Execution Technology". http://ark.intel.com would tell.
If you cannot even get a compatible Wifi adapter online... good luck! You will need it. It basically is impossible to know the Wifi chipset you will get. Unless you can test with a Trisquel live system.
"some companies that don't seem to be implementing digital restrictions are ASUS and Acer".
Asus works well in Trisquel exclude bluetooth and I think their bios is not a free version. With regard to Acer, normally their wlan chipsets does not work with Trisquel.
Live-cd is a good way to test compatible. Live-cd has already created 15 months ago and it would be better if developers will create a new version with the latest updates and kernel.
The vendors of the libre laptops provide their laptops only with mainstream language keyboard layouts and this is problem for many users, for instance in Europe. The link in the following is shown Swedish/Finnish keyboard layout that use three more keys than US keyboards http://www.goodtyping.com/teclatFINok.png
> Asus works well in Trisquel exclude bluetooth and I think their bios is not a free version. With regard to Acer, normally their wlan chipsets does not work with Trisquel.
I don't think you understand. These companies don't produce wireless chipsets, or any components for that matter. They buy them from various sources and assemble the computers they sell using these components. Think Penguin does the same. Mainstream companies don't make any effort to make their computers' hardware compatible with Linux-libre; in this regard, they are all the same. It may or may not work.
However, several companies (Dell, Toshiba, HP, Apple, IBM, and Lenovo) are known to add digital restrictions to prevent certain wireless cards from being installed. So you should avoid buying from them.
Also, no new x86 laptop can work with a libre boot loader. The newest x86 laptops that can work with a libre boot loader are from 2010, and they are the computers sold by Minifree and Libiquity.
> Asus works well in Trisquel exclude bluetooth and I think their bios is not
a free version. With regard to Acer, normally their wlan chipsets does not
work with Trisquel.
I don't think you understand. These companies don't produce wireless
chipsets, or any components for that matter. They buy them from various
sources and assemble the computers they sell using these components. Think
Penguin does the same. Mainstream companies don't make any effort to make
their computers' hardware compatible with Linux-libre; in this regard, they
are all the same. It may or may not work.
However, several companies (Dell, Toshiba, HP, Apple, IBM, and Lenovo) are
known to add digital restrictions to prevent certain wireless cards from
being installed. So you should avoid buying from them.
Also, no new x86 laptop can work with a libre boot loader. The newest x86
laptops that can work with a libre boot loader are from 2010, and they are
the computers sold by Minifree and Libiquity.
I am a translator!
Hi. Basically what you want to check is the GPU and the wifi adapter. The
wifi adapter better be an Atheros AR9xxx or AR5xxx series. The GPU must not,
and I repeat, **must not** be an ATI. All Intel GPUs older than Skylake will
do perfectly fine. Most Nvidia GPUs (I have 0 experience personally with
those though) AFAIK should work decently.
If you set up a live trisquel usb stick you can just ask the store-dood if
you can try it and see if it works, and if he says yes then check if there is
wifi signal and write in a terminal **glxinfo | grep rendering** and if the
output says "yes" it means you are golden.
"How can I check for compatibility before purchasing a new computer?"
Simple: Put Trisquel on a CD or USB stick. Boot up the computer using that
and see how things work.
> has no freedom-related problems
All of them do. It's a matter of how big the freedom-related problems are.
The best you can get are the Libreboot laptops (which, of course, are
refurbished, not new), though some ARM devices like the OpenPandora can be
used in a reduced capacity in complete freedom. (Personally, I'm excited for
the Pyra, which seems like it'll probably be coming out this year.)
Even new x86 computers that are completely compatible with Trisquel include
features which are so powerful that they are effectively universal backdoors.
For Intel CPUs, that's called the Intel Management Engine, or "ME". It is
mandatory in every Intel CPU these days (has been so for a few years now).
The ME is literally capable of doing anything to your computer remotely,
including reading everything.
> A acquantaince has suggested the Dell 15 5000
Dell is one of the companies that implements digital restrictions to restrict
what wireless cards you can use with its computers. Just for this reason, you
should avoid them. If Think Penguin (http://libre.thinkpenguin.com) is above
your budget, some companies that don't seem to be implementing digital
restrictions are ASUS and Acer.
If you do go that route, I'd suggest trying a Trisquel live CD on the
machine, and if something doesn't work, return it. You'll need to get the
computer from a store that accepts the return, of course. The thing is, even
if one of a laptop model works with Trisquel, a slightly different revision
might not.
Since you cannot shop online, that greatly reduces your options for total
freedom (minifree/libiquity)
Then,from these laptops you have short listed,the simple method will be to
make a trisquel 7 live USB (very easy) and the laptop with working WiFi
whilst running a live trisquel environment is your best candidate.
All the best in getting a new laptop.
"some companies that don't seem to be implementing digital restrictions are
ASUS and Acer".
Asus works well in Trisquel exclude bluetooth and I think their bios is not a
free version. With regard to Acer, normally their wlan chipsets does not work
with Trisquel.
Live-cd is a good way to test compatible. Live-cd has already created 15
months ago and it would be better if developers will create a new version
with the latest updates and kernel.
The vendors of the libre laptops provide their laptops only with mainstream
language keyboard layouts and this is problem for many users, for instance in
Europe. The link in the following is shown Swedish/Finnish keyboard layout
that use three more keys than US keyboards
http://www.goodtyping.com/teclatFINok.png
What's with all the double posting?
I've noticed that as well. Seems like a problem with the forum.
What's with all the double posting?
I've noticed that as well. Seems like a problem with the forum.
Looks like the forum is doing it itself
Looks like the forum is doing it itself
Thanks for your replies. I can not test a Live CD of Trisquel because I do not have phyisical access to the computer. I could only use that method after buying the computer and therefore it is of no use for me (if I buy it, I would get know if it is compatible by free software anyway after installing Debian or Trisquel GNU slash Linux).
Anyway, the Dell model I mentioned is sold out. The same acquinatance recommended the HP Pavilion Notebook 17-g119dx. Could you help me determine whether it will work with Trisquel and Debian without the nonfree repositories?. Manufacturer support page: http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-17-Notebook-PC-series/8499304/model/9629691/manuals . It has a pre Skylake CPU with integrated graphics controller, but I can not find what the wireless chip is.
Will the video and IEEE 802.11 controllers work without proprietary drivers or OS-loaded firmware?. Should I expect other problems regarding compatibility with free software (and its philosophy)?. I can not buy a IEEE 802.11 adapter online if the one that comes with the computer doesn't work, so I would be without wireless access. Remember, I can only buy what local retailers sell.
It seems like it has Intel ME, but I have no real option as I can not buy a Libreboot to escape it. Yet another non-user serviceable component to add to the list in almost all computers that already includes BIOS, HD firmware, microcode and so on.
Do you use computers with Intel ME?. If not, how did you escape it (very old conpuer, AMD CPU, Minifree's Libreboot, flashed it yourself or what else)?.
Thanks.
> The same acquinatance recommended the HP Pavilion Notebook 17-g119dx. Could you help me determine whether it will work with Trisquel and Debian without the nonfree repositories?
No, it is impossible to know for sure. Your acquaintance who is recommending these devices is naïve. Exactly what components are found in a laptop can change at the drop of a hat, often without any change in packaging.
Another confounding factor is firmware loaded by the BIOS. Sometimes this can make a computer work with Trisquel or another completely libre OS even if a component requires proprietary firmware.
And HP is another one of those companies known to implement digital restrictions to restrict what wireless cards can be installed in the laptop. You should definitely avoid buying computers from these companies.
I know you want a solution, but there simply isn't one. The best you can do is try your luck, and if it doesn't work, deal with that after-the-fact (by returning it to the shop if possible, or replacing the non-working component otherwise). But at the very least, avoid buying computers from companies that put intentional restrictions in them. Keep a bias for computers from companies that aren't known to do that, like ASUS.
The one thing you can check for easily is who provides the GPU. If the computer has an AMD CPU and doesn't mention having an Nvidia card, it's and AMD GPU, and you want to avoid those. If it has an Intel CPU and doesn't mention having an Nvidia card, it's an Intel integrated GPU, and you want those. Obviously, if it mentions having an Nvidia card, it has an Nvidia card, and you generally want to avoid those (older ones have been reverse-engineered, but newer ones can't be, from my understanding).
Manufacturer support page: http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-17-Notebook-PC-series/8499304/model/9629691/manuals
That documentation (http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c04825537 more precisely) made me lie in https://trisquel.info/forum/how-can-i-check-compatibility-purchasing-new-computer#comment-87685
Indeed, four WLAN chipsets are listed in the "WLAN module" section... and I am pretty sure none of them can be driven in freedom.
The graphical chipset (Intel HD Graphics 4400) will perfectly work. The Intel® Core™ i5-4210U Processor has neither vPro nor Trusted Execution Technology, which is good: http://ark.intel.com/products/81016/Intel-Core-i5-4210U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-2_70-GHz
So, basically, you will only need to acquire a Wifi adapter (hardware DRMs - HP is known to enforce them - never apply to USB devices). Typically from http://libre.thinkpenguin.com or http://tehnoetic.com (both ship internationally), the only two vendors that guarantee that their hardware perfectly work with Linux-libre, hence Trisquel.
If you can't or won't purchase online, make a Trisquel live USB and march to your local computer shop and boot off it and then try everything you require.