How I fixed my suspend issue
My laptop would seem to suspend just fine but it would never fully wake up but completely freeze in the process. Wouldn't even react to magic sysrq commands so I had to hold down the power button to kill it and start anew.
Since these problems mostly happen because of sucky peripherals (video card and wifi being the usual suspects) I switched off the wifi and started to fool around with just the video card.
When the computer suspends it does so using the pm-suspend command. So the pm-suspend manual page would likely give me useful information, which it did. It listed these various quirks one could try with silly hardware. man pm-suspend
So, I went on reading the descriptions of the quirks and testing plausible sounding ones, one by one. I.e. sudo pm-suspend --quirk-dpms-on and so on and so forth. And then I got lucky on the fifth try. This time the machine resumed perfectly. So as the manual page suggested I made a /etc/pm/config.d/anyfile containing ADD_PARAMETERS=--quirk-s3-mode to make the quirk stick. Which quirk works depends on your hardware, kernel, driver, KMS setting and the phase of moon.
In the rush of happiness I switched on my wifi and tried it again. Boom, back to square one. Wouldn't resume. So... I would have to manually kill off wifi before suspending and then manually again switch it back on every time? No way! Then I remembered hearing about this package rfkill which can switch off wireless devices in software. And turns out it worked just fine. And so I added rfkill block wifi command to my suspend portion of scripts in /usr/lib/pm-utils/sleep.d/ and rfkill unblock wifi to the resume portion.
Now my suspend and hibernate work! Hope this inspirational story would be of use for anybody with similar issues.
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That's one cool story, great to hear your laptop suspends correctly now!
Sounds awesome... You should see if you can get that put into a wiki or a
make "content" out of it.
Wow, I forgot to mention that you need to use the nomodeset kernel parameter
for this to work.
You can do this by sudo nano /etc/default/grub and then adding nomodeset to
the line which reads GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
Then close nano saving the modifications (Ctrl+x, y, enter)
and then finally sudo update-grub to implement the changes. Then restart.
After that you can verify that cat /proc/cmdline contains nomodeset.
Sounds awesome... You should see if you can get that put into a wiki or a make "content" out of it.
>You should see if you can get that put into a wiki or a make "content" out of it.
Finally got it done. This is what I should've done in the first place. Got inspired by this guy's success. http://trisquel.info/en/issues/6380 Sorry to bump my own old thread...
https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/troubleshooting-suspendhibernate
Wow, I forgot to mention that you need to use the nomodeset kernel parameter for this to work.
You can do this by sudo nano /etc/default/grub and then adding nomodeset to the line which reads GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
Then close nano saving the modifications (Ctrl+x, y, enter)
and then finally sudo update-grub to implement the changes. Then restart.
After that you can verify that cat /proc/cmdline contains nomodeset.
lol, this explains why s2d didn't work on my laptop with Ubuntu (which used a non-free driver to make the wireless card work) but does with Trisquel. One more reason not to use those proprietary blobls.
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There are a lot of issues caused by non-free software. Not every issue is going to be fixed by going free although many many many issues are. We (@ ThinkPenguin) don't ship free software just for ethical reasons even if thats the primary reason. There are support costs to consider as well from the business perspective. It's one of the reasons we're succeeding where others have seen only mediocre success (comparatively). The improved support situation is whats the major draw for most users whom are unconcerned by non-free software.
Out of curiosity, why do you default to bundling Ubuntu with computers sold from that shop instead of a completely free OS like Trisquel or gNewSense?
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About 50% of the masses can be successfully transitioned to GNU/Linux distributions which include some non-free software. Mainly this is because of web critical components like Adobe Flash. If we abandon the users who are willing to take a leap of faith and try GNU/Linux then they will never end up on a completely free system. At the same time if we try and move users to Trisquel before Trisquel is ready for prime time we risk losing them forever. Our goal is to help users off non-free software. Not to turn them away from it. I'd like to point out that nobody here is on a completely free system. The OS may be free- but your system is not. There are non-free pieces hidden within. For instance there is the BIOS and other non-free microcode.
This is NOT a justification. Please consider it bad behavior on our part. You shouldn't recommend, “default to”, etc.
I highly recommend people link to the following URL as we have cleaned this site up:
http://libre.thinkpenguin.com/
It does not include pointers to non-free programs, distributions which include non-free software, etc.
In time I hope to see us remove distributions which include non-free software. It's going to take a lot of work though and less hostility from both sides. Cooperation is the answer to the problem (non-free software).
Just out of curiosity, what is the "other non-free microcode"?
Isn't an amd+nvidia(nouveau)+coreboot+trisquel system "completely" free?
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No. Such a system is not completely free. I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject myself. I was informed of the issue by the/a lead coreboot developer a few years back. At the time I was told it is a bigger issue than the BIOS.
My understanding is that if we are really going to release a completely free system its going to have to be based on a non-x86 architecture.
This is not something we are currently working on so I can't really dig into it further. It's more of a project for the future. Right now we are just working on building relationships, distribution channels, and financial capital that'll make such projects possible. The smaller projects like a freedom friendly USB N adapter is our largest current endeavor (it is a large project which requires significant investment).
Mm, interesting. By the way, the new yeeloong I previously made a topic of has been released, yet with very few media coverage and an inappropriate price -> http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/nl_NL/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Products/CFL-008
I tried to reach anyone in IRC who could give more specifications other than these vendor summaries but failed.
But in an utopic situation, do we have a more freedom-oriented architecture other than loongson? I'm not much into ARM chips myself, but I wanted to know the freedom perspective of the other chinese project, Allwinner, which also comes at a more commendable cost. (Mali graphics driver is being reverse engineered already.)
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I'm actually impressed by the specifications. I wasn't expecting a 13.3" screen. The price is in line with high end notebooks so that isn't a big deal. The thing that concerns me is the non-free graphics dependencies.
We should probably be in communications with this company. I think this is the wrong time to be working on this though. At least for us.
> Mm, interesting. By the way, the new yeeloong I previously made a
> topic of has been released, yet with very few media coverage and an
> inappropriate price ->
> http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/nl_NL/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Products/CFL-008
The GPU is a problem (the boot firmware includes a copy of its nonfree
VGA BIOS which the kernel uses for modesetting, nonfree microcode is
needed for optional acceleration; the first problem might be much easier
than the second one to solve). There is also no information on what
wifi chipset is used (or what handles the "SIM card port"). A gNewSense
developer considers the HDMI support a problem, I don't know the
details.
> But in an utopic situation, do we have a more freedom-oriented
> architecture other than loongson? I'm not much into ARM chips myself,
> but I wanted to know the freedom perspective of the other chinese
> project, Allwinner, which also comes at a more commendable cost. (Mali
> graphics driver is being reverse engineered already.)
http://rhombus-tech.net/allwinner_a10/orders/ suggests the GPU being the
only problem (and maybe the MPEG decoder which also isn't needed).
Nearly all ARM chips have GPUs requiring nonfree software (although
these are usually optional, unlike on Raspberry Pi), they also have
optional support for tivoization used on most end user devices like
phones.
> Isn't an amd+nvidia(nouveau)+coreboot+trisquel system "completely" free?
It might need a CPU microcode update in the BIOS, it needs to run the
VGA BIOS of the graphics card (Radeons need just to read it, not run),
it might have an embedded controller (all laptops have them, none run
completely free software on it) and it has firmware in other devices
like disks or wifi cards (although these probably can be considered
hardware).
You are doing it right.
The step away of non-mainstream OS (µ$) is a huge step for normal people. There is no way they will keep doing it if they can't use their computer as they want.
This reminds me of the case when I consulted one organisation in moving to Free Software. I said things will work and people will manage with it as long as you install Sun Java and Flash, which are proprietary software. He said why Flash. I said because your workers browse web and want to see all kind of Flash stuff they get links onto (they even want to see advertisements correctly so that the pages look more beautiful). He said they do that yes, but if they don't have Flash and can't install it, then they can't do it. I said if they can't do it they will rise a helluva fight against GNU/Linux and without a reason. He said then they do it, it doesn't matter.
I did my best in trying to convince him that Flash is mandatory, but I failed. What happened in the organisation was that they used GNU/Linux and were able to do things with it, except not see content using Flash. That pissed them so much and turned them away of GNU/Linux that in the end the organisation had to revert back to Windows.
I am very sure those workers wont even think to try to use GNU/Linux in their personal machines ever. They have got terrible bad experience of GNU/Linux, and more, they will spread the bad word. It is very probable that they will never ever buy a computer having only GNU/Linux installed. Things like that is just bad for the Free Software movement. It is complete loss. So, it is definetly the best to try take care of the users - else you will lose them, and at worst you will lose them forever and not only them but some people around them.
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Richard Stallman actually has some very good points about why we shouldn't move people to GNU/Linux distributions that include non-free software. The problem is it reduces the leverage we have against those who would like to turn GNU/Linux into a Microsoft replacement (that is to turn it non-free essentially). If we attract users to GNU/Linux who don't care about freedom then companies like Atheros won't have an incentive to release free drivers/firmware.
Taking a stronger stance against less critical non-free software is something we really need more distributions to do. Then we need to focus on solving more pressing issues such as a replacement for Adobe Flash and/or alternatives to sites like Netflix which are dependent on digital restrictions and non-free software.
I have actually read everything many times and more what has been pasted here about RMS. Still I am very interested to read what he has said in order to see if there is something new for me.
In my opinion this is about how you climb to a tree to grab an apple. You can do it using your hands and succeed or you can restrict yourself and try it without your hands and never succeed.
So in my opinion the first step is to get significant "critical mass" of GNU/Linux users so that their needs matter to the devs and content holders. The more we get GNU/Linux users, the more we will also get people who understand the importance and goodness of Free Software in addition to that more users can mean more support to GNU/Linux devs.
You could grab an apple from a tree without using your hands, but it might require a lot more work to do to kick ladders under the tree so you could reach the apple with your bare teeths.
It is much better to have 1M of GNU/Linux users of which 10 000 is very concerned of Free Software than to have 100 000 GNU/Linux users of which 1000 is very concerned of Free Software.
Hm, why doesn't it keep the "libre." in the URL? When I saw it just disappear like it does with no apparent change, I just ignored it thinking it did nothing. Plus, the "bookmark this page" function will point you to the regular site even if you got there from libre.thinkpenguin.com.
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The libre.thinkpenguin.com link does two things. One it sets a cookie on your computer so that we know not to display information on distributions which include non-free software. The 2nd thing it does is it adds a fake product to your shopping cart. This lets us know to make a donation to the Trisquel project.
Well, I wish I'd known that, I bought the video card from your shop a few days ago, but I'm pretty sure I got there without the "libre." (I had the site bookmarked).
At least I have the bookmark set to libre.thinkpenguin.com now, so I won't make the mistake again. :)
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It's not the greatest solution I'll admit :(. It's what we have for the moment though. It's a dirty hack that works “good enough” to ensure that those who want to avoid promoting non-free software can (this includes myself- I frequently point to it over the main URL). When we have the new site ready it'll be more compliant with the FSF guidelines. That is the main http://www.thinkpenguin.com/ URL and not just http://libre.thinkpenguin.com/. The main site still won't be perfect though. It'll contain compatibility information on distributions which include non-free software. It'll also still have supporting documentation for such distributions. It will however exclude information on programs which are non-free that are currently in our in-house software directory.
This isn't the only place we're 'cleaning up'. I've made some effort to purge references to distributions which include non-free software in our brochures as well. The entire process of moving toward free software has been ongoing since day one. We have always been a freedom-focused operation. I was not aware of Trisquel's existence originally and gNewSense was never an option (for less technical users-which are really the focus of our operations). We never sold hardware dependent on non-free software despite having an Ubuntu-centric site. This was a matter of usability/compatibility. It was not possible to support gNewSense due to technical issues (old software such as kernels, difficult for less technical users, etc). We did provide some documentation on gNewSense for the USB G adapter at one time. It was the only piece of hardware that had a chipset supported under the shipping gNewSense kernel/drivers.
By the way this topic needs more discussion so that it is better understood for it is an important topic.
I have friends and some of them has been using years GNU/Linux even though they are not at all computer people. They say that it is better than Windows. That is only possible because I install Flash and Skype for them, Skype only if they use Skype and using XMPP via Gmail does not work for them. If the hardware they have works with non-proprietary software I install Trisquel for them, and naturally install Flash from Ubuntu repos or from Adobe. If the hardware does not work without proprieatary software I install Ubuntu for them (without Unity, I don't want to teach people to become attached to Unity).
The difference what those users make is that they contribute to the statistics on websites. If statistics say, for example, that 30% of the visitors are using GNU/Linux, then website devs will have to begin to pay more attention to the people using GNU/Linux. Now the statistics say maybe about 1% and the devs don't give a shit. The result is that the devs can easily make sites which does not work on GNU/Linux, and if the websites does not work with GNU/Linux then the masses wont ever want to use GNU/Linux.
This is especially important because of that (fucking) Silverlight. Moonlight lags so much behind of Silverlight that websites using Silverligh does not work with Moonlight unless you do tricks like hack the version number of Moonlight to be the same as the latest required Silverlight (and wish the best). If you don't do that (and masses don't do it ever), the website just says "please upgrade your Silverlight", which you can't do. With (fucking) Flash we don't at least have those problems (yet) and the world is a little bit better place for Free Software.
So, in the end it is better to install Trsiquel to people and then Flash or whatever they need, if that makes them happy and they stay inside the Free Software community. They become aware of Trisquel and some can even become attached to Trisquel. People become so very attached to Apple that they don't need that Flash on Apple tablets and iphones. The same can sometimes happen with Trisquel and people will be happy to use Trisquel even if they can't use Flash. You can help it to happen. Every little thing done for good helps and is a step forward.
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The problem with this thinking is that they will release non-free solutions if the majority on GNU/Linux users are on non-free distributions. This is obviously not an acceptable solution. We need to work together to reduce the communities dependency on non-free software. I'm doing that with hardware and ThinkPenguin. There are other sites and services that we don't have a great solution for. One instant entertainment. There is www.eztakes.com although it leaves a lot to be desired. Ideally I think ideally there would be a site that streamed ogg theora videos and have a significant amount of desirable content.
Just note by the way that I fully support the policy of not helping people to use non-free software in Trisquel Forum, and I wont do that. Those who want to get help to use non-free software can get that help from Ubuntu forums.
I value highly this kind of 100% committed to Free Software distribution and community, even though I install that distribution to some machines and then Flash on top of it. But try ask me howto install Flash here :)
In response to your other post (I don't want to split your posts apart since they're related :] ):
Regarding Moonlight: it is no longer supported by its developers, for various reasons (see http://lists.ximian.com/pipermail/moonlight-list/2011-December/001392.html). I'm not sure how much of an issue Moonlight is, but it isn't used by many websites that I know of thankfully.
When it comes to YouTube, a program called youtube-dl can be used to download videos. Sadly that's a bit difficult for many users to use (it's command line), and having an addon to automatically download YouTube videos, or some sort of GUI, would be better. (I might work on one of these myself, eventually).
For Skype, you could try at least recommending a Skype replacement (see http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Skype_Replacement). Empathy works with Google Talk apparently. Unfortunately none of those replacements can talk to Skype users, because Skype uses a proprietary protocol and doesn't want competition or user freedom.
In general I think more work still needs to be done, but that takes time. For free software the current situation is a bit like Catch-22 - many users won't switch to free software because it won't work, but webmasters and companies won't make things work for free software users if not many people use it. But I don't know if helping users install Flash will improve the situation or not.
Well, I know that none to whom I have installed GNU/Linux would not use it if they would have to stop using Flash.
Everyone using Flash does not solve the flash problem, but everyone using MS so that they can use Flash does not help a bit people to migrate to GNU/Linux.
So you have two choises: a very bad choise and less bad choise. The very bad choise does not include anything good. It is completely and totally bad. The less bad choise includes something good. People can begin to learn to see that MS is not the only choise, and more demand for GNU/Linux support can come.
In Finland broadcasting companies use Silverlight in their websites for streaming video. The national broadcasting company YLE (similar to BBC in England) and one other company does not. There is also a company who rents movies by using Silverlight. None of those work with Moonlight, and thanks of your link, now I can lose officially my hope in that they ever would.
Anyway, I may try to solve broadcasting etc. flash/silverlight problems by buying almost the same content and much better service from one awesome company in Finland who supports Free Software. I never watch TV, but my wife does, and I can't be horrible dictator saying that this policy prohibits you from doing what you want to do.
Regarding Skype, her relatives use it with her, but I managed to get her mother and her to try google talk/video (which needed some sort of proprieatary plugin). I wished they would had begun to use that because then I could had guided my wife to use Empathy/Pidgin. They did not, and one thing is quite sure: her 75 year old grandfather and 80 years old grandmother does not begin to use anything else than Skype since they have learned it.
It sucks, but there is not much what you can do before becoming an asshole. Free Software is good and important but better still not become an asshole but rather let people have freedoms they want in a same way you want freedom. If the "freedom" is forced upon them by you, then there is not much difference between you and those who try to take the freedom away from you.
Regarding youtube-dl, there is a GUI for that, called YTDownloader if I'm not mistaken.
Interesting, but I don't need flash and it is not installed on my computer. I am very lucky to not need it.
I can watch stuff from Youtube, mostly digitalrev.com vids, and those work flawlessly at 1080p on my few years old X4500HD Intel integrated graphics chip, were they HTML5 or Flash, for what I use with Gnash.
Before Gnash was usable I noticed that if some website required Flash I missed nothing when not being able to see it. It is not like there would be lack of flashless content in Internet.
I find any use of flash to be disturbing. How many REMOTE vulnerabilities is Adobe allowed to have across their entire 'product' line before people wise up? Or perhaps security doesn't matter as much to others.
I am presently using Gentoo Hardened Stable, although I am playing around quite a bit with Trisquel. The version of Gnash in Gentoo Hardened Stable is a bit newer than the version found in Brigantia. It works flawlessly on Youtube. Even if I could toss the 4 freedoms out the window, I could not imagine installing Adobe products on a computer. And this is going back for years. I wouldn't even install the Acrobat Reader 10 years ago. From a security standpoint alone, it's not worth the risk.
Having said all that, I rarely ever use Gnash. I surf with gnash, java & javascript disabled, mostly to enhance privacy behind tor. I'm much more of a reader than film or video watcher.
Yeah, using Flash is the most underrated example how non-free software can suck. It compromises security in your computer, you can't do anything to fix it, and some think they are forced to use it.