Libreboot X200 returns on Minifree

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libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Hi everyone :)

Libreboot is a fully free BIOS/UEFI replacement (boot firmware) for starting a bootloader and loading your operating system. Minifree is offering a version of the ThinkPad X200 with Libreboot and Trisquel GNU+Linux preinstalled right out of the box.

It's at a reduced price compared to what it was at before, as part of the December 2017 and January 2018 periods. The Minifree T400 is on the current 2017 FSF giving guide. I added the X200 on Minifree today, and have also asked the FSF to add the X200 to their page.

Here it is:
https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/

This is also certified by the FSF under Respects Your Freedom criteria. If you want a small, portable laptop that is entirely libreboot from the BIOS up, the Libreboot X200 is a perfect choice.

~Leah

Ignacio.Agullo
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Joined: 09/29/2009

Thinkpads X200 perform just great with GNU/Linux Trisquel.

--
Ignacio Agulló · agullo [at] ati [dot] es

Time4Tea
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Joined: 07/16/2017

Hooray for Libreboot! :-D

One question I have about it though: is it modelled on the BIOS style of booting (MBR), or EFI? Or can it do both?

(Sorry if this seems like a silly question)

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

It uses the GNU GRUB bootloader, which is part of Libreboot. It's configured in such a way as to provide boot options for various media types including USB, and the menu is configurable.

Time4Tea
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Joined: 07/16/2017

Thanks for answering my question, Leah, although I don't think that was quite what I was getting at. As I understand it, there are two firmware 'paradigms': BIOS and EFI, which are quite different in the way they work. So, I am wondering if the Libreboot firmware is more similar to BIOS or EFI, or is it somewhere in the middle? Or, is it completely different to both?

For example, can it boot up from both MBR-type hard disks and GPT hard disks that have an EFI System Partition?

(or perhaps I'm just misunderstanding something about firmware and asking silly questions?)

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

If you want something that resembles a BIOS you could build libreboot with SeaBIOS and get something you'd think of as a BIOS. Or compile libreboot with TianoCore which is a UEFI implementation. But those are separate things that get compiled as a "payload" they call it. But neither coreboot nor libreboot in and of themselves provide any services that you would expect with a traditional BIOS or UEFI.

The common thing for libreboot people is that they use GRUB as the payload and not SeaBIOS or TianoCore so what you have there is something completely different from BIOS or UEFI.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Actually, the latest version of Libreboot, which comes preinstalled on these laptops, uses a custom payload called "SeaGRUB". It's SeaBIOS, configured to immediately load GRUB after 0s, without allowing any other option, where both SeaBIOS and GRUB are in the flash chip alongside coreboot-libre (the coreboot version that libreboot uses).

In the GRUB menu of Libreboot, you can use BIOS services such as chainload and so on. This is commonly used for booting non-GNU+Linux systems, such as various BSD systems.

To the normal user, it just looks like a normal GRUB payload but it is in fact SeaGRUB as described above. Timothy Pearson, a former member of the project, came up with the idea, and I implemented it in Libreboot.

This was done in the current Libreboot release, as a compromise so that BIOS services were available to the user. In the Git repository, we have a substantially improved version of this which uses BIOS GRUB compiled to a floppy image (.img file) stored in the flash chip, where SeaBIOS still loads GRUB immediately, but SeaBIOS initializes the video display instead of GRUB, using the libre SeaVGABIOS module in SeaBIOS... basically this further improves compatibility with other free OSes besides GNU+Linux. Andrew Robbins and Swiftgeek on #libreboot IRC worked on it, and it will be in the next release of Libreboot.

Time4Tea
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Joined: 07/16/2017

Ok, thank you for these details - this is all very interesting :)

Time4Tea
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Joined: 07/16/2017

Ok, thanks jxself. It seems that I had some misconception about how the firmware/bootloader interact. So, it sounds like the main differences between BIOS and UEFI are in the services they provide after the hardware is initialized (which in Libreboot is determined by the payload)?

So, am I correct in saying that, in the case of Libreboot with Grub, the distinction between MBR and GPT-partitioned hard disks doesn't really matter? Because Grub is already loaded, so as long as it can find the grub.cfg file and the /boot folder, it should be ok.

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

"So, am I correct in saying that, in the case of Libreboot with Grub, the distinction between MBR and GPT-partitioned hard disks doesn't really matter? Because Grub is already loaded, so as long as it can find the grub.cfg file and the /boot folder, it should be ok."

Yeah, it doesn't really matter. You should be able to use anything that GRUB itself supports.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

For booting GNU+Linux, you don't even need BIOS/UEFI. GRUB boots the linux kernel directly.

For other OS e.g. BSD, ReactOS(not yet supported) you would need BIOS services. The free "SeaBIOS" payload provides this. The next version of Libreboot will have a substantially improved "SeaGRUB" implementation as previously described.

alimiracle
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Joined: 01/18/2014

hi libreleah
I'm one of the members of uruk project

can Minifree offering a version of the ThinkPad X200 with Libreboot and uruk GNU+Linux preinstalled right out of the box????

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

My usual answer would be no, since this isn't technically endorsed by the FSF. However, since Uruk is closely based on Trisquel, then I think it would be OK.

In the textbox on the checkout page when you order, mention that you would like Uruk instead of Trisquel, and I will see what I can do.

calher
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Joined: 06/19/2015

I notice that Debian was recently changed back to Trisquel on the
Minifree site. What was the reason for that decision?

I actually went into the Wayback because I was confused when I saw
Trisquel again.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

It was decided that Trisquel would be re-introduced, so that Minifree's systems could remain in compliance with FSF Respects Your Freedom criteria.

s1lv3r
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Joined: 10/29/2017

well done leah! i'm defenetely gonna buy one of those

quoderatd2
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Joined: 12/06/2017

I am about to purchase one from minifree and...
I may sound a bit paranoid, but do you think the NSA has a program to implant a bug in computers like this in transit?
I recently read about A2: Analog Malicious Hardware, and it seems possible that NSA may already be using it.

Also, if I am using a router from verizon, what would I need to do to secure my computer (assuming it's libreboot with trisquel) from the NSA.

What would be the advantage of getting a libre router?

Ignacio.Agullo
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Joined: 09/29/2009

On 07/12/17 19:19, wrote:
> I am about to purchase one from minifree and...
> I may sound a bit paranoid, but do you think the NSA has a program to
> implant a bug in computers like this in transit?

Go to London, buy it in person.

--
Ignacio Agulló · agullo [at] ati [dot] es

quoderatd2
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Joined: 12/06/2017

I see... I guess I'll buy it some other time then.

zotis
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Joined: 09/20/2017

The price is big but you know what you take .
Buy it from here :

https://tehnoetic.com/

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

The security implications of having a laptop shipped to you is identical, whether you purchase from that company or Minifree. They are both the same product.

The difference is price. Minifree's X200 is half the price of Techno's X200

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

I don't want to start an argument, especially since we at Technoethical believe that there is enough room for everyone in the world to sell laptops with fully free BIOS and fully free OS. And we have other priorities, like not disappointing our customers that are waiting to get their orders delivered.

The difference between Technoethical's X200 and "Mini's X200" (marketed as Libreboot X200 -- double wink for Leah) is not only the price, but also the time, care and money that we put into refurbishing and replacing components for the laptops that we sell. Our prices guarantee a fair trade.

We reinvest everything that is left after paying for our modest living costs, donations to projects, and participation to free software events, into stocking to allow us to keep our product quality standard and at the same time process orders faster -- delivery time is something we definitely need to improve. In practice, Technoethical works in a nonprofit fashion as our foundation Ceata.

We do plan to offer for sale at lower prices liberated and fully functional laptops with components that we couldn't refurbish and with lower specifications (battery, WiFi, Bluetooth, memory, optical unit).

In connection with OP's question, besides Romania in European Union we operate from other different countries (like USA, Russia, Australia) where our members live and ship locally. We often deliver orders to the customers that attend free software events that one or more of our members also attend or even on our way back from these events. :-) Free software people interested in local shipping or personal delivery can send us an e-mail and we'll see if we can arrange it.

Several customers visiting the countries that we live in have been able to meet with us and see how their laptops are liberated and refurbished live, or if they didn't have that much time, simply enjoy a talk with us about free software. It's always nice when we can have a real-life human interaction with our customers!

Tiberiu

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Hi Tiberiu :)

We share a mutual interest, and yes if you can afford the extra price, Technoethical is also an excellent alternative to Minifree if you are looking for libreboot laptops.

Just FYI, all current Minifree orders are on time to arrive to their recipients before christmas. I also confirm that Minifree, like Technoethical, has quality assurance measures in place to ensure that the laptops we ship are the highest quality possible.

All of Minifree's profits, after covering my living costs (which are low. I live frugally), are reinvested into Libreboot, or saved for future Libreboot investment.

As founder of the Libreboot project, and as a current member, I wholeheartedly endorse both Technoethical and my own company, Minifree.

Libreboot's suppliers page lists both companies, and others, here:

https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html

~Leah

EDIT: I would also like to note the Phreedom 2600 company that was recently added to that page:
https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html#phreedom-2600

This company also offers the X200, at the same price as Minifree. So now there are 2 low-cost alternatives to Technoethical :)

calher
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Joined: 06/19/2015

On Fri, 2017-12-08 at 18:32 +0100, info [at] technoethical [dot] com wrote:
> I don't want to start an argument,
...
> like not disappointing our customers that are waiting to get their orders
> delivered.

No comment.

> The difference between Technoethical's X200 and "Mini's X200" (marketed as
> Libreboot X200 -- double wink for Leah) ...

This paragraph is no better than the first.

> Free software people
> interested in local shipping or personal delivery can send us an e-mail and
> we'll see if we can arrange it.

This is nice. Can you by any chance get to Kansas City?

--
Caleb Herbert
OpenPGP public key: http://bluehome.net/csh/pubkey

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

> This is nice. Can you by any chance get to Kansas City?

Sent you a PM. Let me know there the details.

Tiberiu

vltr
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Joined: 09/30/2017

Half price but the support and attention that you receive buying at Technoethical cannot be compared with the one received from Minifree.

Technoethical gives by far a better attention not to say cares more for every detail than Minifrees does.

Written by a customer of both companies.

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

It's a misconception that Technoethical products cost double than from other companies.

Taking into account only the total paid for the X200 with the specs mentioned on the product pages:

€430 EUR = Minifree X200 w/ 8GB RAM
€478 EUR = Technoethical X200 (8GB RAM)

The difference is for the double the speed dual band WiFi card.

Tiberiu

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Despite some statements being said here by one or two people, Minifree actually does take strides to provide the best possible customer services. This includes reasonably fast shipping, and high product quality.

Of course, it's also true that critics are the loudest voices, and I accept that some may not be satisfied. Minifree also provides an extensive 2 year warranty on all orders, so if you are at all dissatisfied with your product that you receive, I will correct and/or replace it for free.

I would also like to correct something: Minifree X200 with 8GiB RAM and 160GB HDD is 358 EUR, not 430 EUR.
We provide the same level of customer service as Technoethical, at half the price.

As I write this, I'm currently flashing a huge batch of X200s for customers. All current X200 orders will reach their intended recipients before christmas.

I should also point out that I personally ported the X200 to Libreboot, and despite selling at a lower price, I donate 100% of profits after living expenses directly into Libreboot. Technoethical's X200 would not exist if it wasn't for the extensive amount of research and development hours that I (along with 1 other person) put into it.

Nonetheless, I endorse Technoethical. They also happen to provide the Libreboot X200, at a higher price :)
If you can afford the extra price, then Technoethical is also a fine choice.

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

Leah:
> Despite some statements being said here by one or two people

That's an understatement. There are at least ten on this forum, and the ones that haven't spoken up are many more. Take for example another recent discussion:

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/lenovo-t400-thinkpad-takes-random-screenshots-disables-keyboard-and-touchpad

> I would also like to correct something: Minifree X200 with 8GiB RAM and 160GB HDD is 358 EUR, not 430 EUR.

See screenshot attached. €429.60, to be precise.

Tiberiu

Screen Shot 2017-12-12 at 09.08.15-fullpage.png
loldier
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Joined: 02/17/2016

We have no way of knowing who is who, and substantiating anonymous claims or motives is even harder. What I've seen, there have been multiple accounts or sockpuppets abusing the system.

As it stands, there's really nothing concrete to back up any statement. Word versus word. Trying to cast some particular light on rival businesses is always a two-bladed sword. It's usually the best option to refrain from such behaviour.

As for that particular thread and statement, I don't see how a second-hand computer having a failing keyboard that Minifree has vowed to replace would be an issue to interpolate anything further.

"Hi, I've just replied to the email you sent. As stated in the email, you just have a faulty keyboard.

I sent you an email, offering to send a keyboard replacement, with instructions for how to install it. Let's continue the discussion via email."

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Tiberiu and loldier,

It may come of interest to you that said customer in that thread actually replied to my email. I'm sending them a replacement keyboard, with installation instructions.

The following is strictly morbid curiosity:

Tiberiu, In that case then yes your 430 EUR figure makes sense. That only applies to Europeans, though. For people who live outside of the EU, or who are VAT registered EU business customers, the tax is set at 0% so the price would indeed be much lower.

Are you saying that your price is static? Either this means that you're not VAT registered, and you charge everyone the same price, or you also charge VAT to north americans etc, or you lower the price for north americans at the point of sale or you don't ship to USA (which I know you do. I've met your US contact, Kurt, in person at Libreplanet 2015 and FOSDEM 2017). Minifree only charges VAT if the customer is in the EU or UK. For customers in e.g. USA, Canada, Japan etc we can legally set the tax to 0%. It's called zero rating in the UK, not sure what it's called elsewhere.

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

> In that case then yes your 430 EUR figure makes sense.

Thanks for admitting in the end. I'm pretty sure that the customer that has repeated your statement "half price" is from EU and doesn't own a VAT-registered business. Like most customers from EU complaining about Minifree on this forum.

> this means that you're not VAT registered

We are not required to be VAT-registered, since the income doesn't reach the threshold. That tells something about how small our business is.

> you don't ship to USA (which I know you do.

We ship locally in USA. Our colleague in USA has his own sole proprietorship.

Tiberiu

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

So you can either stay small and not register for VAT, or get big and have to register for VAT - and charge more to your EU customers - or lower your price. Tough call.

Going back to the thing about wire transfer being safe - because it is, in Minifree's case. If you doubt my integrity, that's your business. When a customer asks me for a refund, I do so immediately. They give me their wiring instructions and I pay them.

Every Minifree order has either shipped, or been refunded. Most orders are shipped. Despite what your (dare I say slanderous) statements about Minifree suggest, I am not in the business of defrauding my customers. Minifree is an honest company, which does well by its customers.

Minifree is much larger than Technoethical, and has existed for longer. We get many sales, so I have to be very efficient with my time. My priority is more libreboot users, and helping more people to get Libreboot systems easily. The lower price is only a part of that.

I will stress once more: Minifree does do the best job it can, under extreme workload (especially during this time of the year). I try to make sure everything works properly, and most of our customers are happy. You may state otherwise, but this is irrelevant.

Minifree is also extremely generous in the cases where there are problems. At the volume we sell at, it's inevitable that mistakes will happen from time to time. What I ask is that you stop trying to suggest that this is every sale, because it isn't.

We almost always send a full new replacement laptop, when the customer complains of a problem with their laptop. They can then send the first one they received back, at their own pace. I don't have to do this. I could ask them to send the unit back, check it and argue with them like many companies do, and then send a replacement. I trust my customers, since most people are decent, so I always send the replacement first.

Tiberiu, I do not wish to fight with you as we did, slightly, in this thread. I'm very patient with you in general and I, personally, pushed for the current suppliers page that is on Libreboot's website, which very openly endorses your company and tells people to buy from you.

I'll let you decide whether any of this continues. In the meantime, I'm still working on laptops. I budget time, and I've allocated 10 hours per day, 5-6 days per week, of work so that I can ship all orders before Christmas. I don't have time to engage in petty squabbles with you, I'm more interested in my customers so I'm focusing on them. I suggest you do the same.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Btw the +1 is from me.

I admire you, Tiberiu, I really do. This post demonstrates how committed you are to your current pursuit.

Hint hint: what I say/think in the past is not necessarily the same as what I say/think now.

Here's what I say/think now: Technoethical is a wonderful company, and I wish you well.

I just wish you'd stop attacking me that's all. I think you're being incredibly petty in your efforts.

As previously stated, I hold no ill will towards you. I'm willing to either cooperate with you, or, since this seems impossible, stay out of your way and leave you alone, to the best of my ability. All you have to do is the exact same thing, and we're good. OK?

The truth is that I'm actually capable of humility. So for instance, I recognized that I was wrong for my previous hostilities towards you, and now I try not to be and instead try to be friendly, and took steps to make amends, such as your addition on the libreboot.org supplier page.

Want me to apologize too? I apologize. Similarly, when someone apologizes to me and does things in good faith to demonstrate it (as I did in making sure that you, a very fierce competitor, are also linked on the libreboot.org supplier page, even though I could have omitted your entry on the page, or not added the page at all), I usually respect them for that. My decision to push for you to be promoted on libreboot.org took everything in me I assure you, but I mean it right here and now that I do not wish to fight you.

Your decision to still not be happy after all that, was your decision. No matter how much you attack me here, I'll still support my previous decision to include you on the list.

Stop attacking, and I'll stop defending. Can we agree on this?

vltr
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Joined: 09/30/2017

He is not attacking you. He is just pointing to facts.

By the way Leah, taking into account the horrible experience that my family and me experienced because of Minifree's service:

May we require you please, at least to treat us with a minimum level of respect? I mean, having into account the situation I think it is the minimum that can be expected from you . Otherwise, and I say this sincerely, you are leaving Minifree's image in a worse state. Please, do not refer to us like "just 1 angry person". I am personally not angry nor any of the members of my family. I am just trying to tell the experience that we lived because it was not a pleasant one. As customers of Minifree I think we have the right to do so not to say the obligation. And I say obligation because I consider that if someone had the misfortune of experiencing such an horrible situation with one company, that person has the moral duty of letting others know about his experience for preventing that others had to go through passing for the same terrible experience.

I understand that you do not like to read bad reviews about Minifree... but with all my respects, that is not our fault in anyway. Stop blaming people and saying that they are attacking you and began to do things well as Tiberiu said.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Finding one of my angry customers, someone who was unhappy with the service they received at Minifree, who then told Technoethical about this and bought from them instead, and asking them to vandalize a Minifree thread on the Trisquel forums... this is not an attack? Interesting.

Indeed. As previously stated, Minifree offers a 2 year warranty on all orders. As also stated, I do not wish to discuss with Tiberiu further.

My only point is that you had a particularly bad experience, but that most people have a much better experience than you did. You were working with Tiberiu in this thread and it seemed apparent to me that you were trying to suggest that your experience reflects everyone's experience ordering.

This is why I was on the defensive. It's not bad reviews that bother me, it's FUD tactics used against me by a fierce competitor who wishes that my company didn't exist... which is obvious, from the actions of that person, in this thread.

You are also quite correct that you are not at fault for what you interpreted as a bad experience. If you want me to do something with your previous order, that's fine. Ask me and I'll send you a replacement laptop, for the one that I originally sent you. (by the way, I want to stress loudly, again, that this is very clearly also stated on the website, and I probably also offered it to you at the time of order, when you originally complained to me)

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

Leah:
> Finding one of my angry customers, someone who was unhappy with the service they received at Minifree, who then told Technoethical about this and bought from them instead, and asking them to vandalize a Minifree thread on the Trisquel forums... this is not an attack? Interesting.

WOW. First of all, I don't need to /find/ angry Minifree customers, they come to Technoethical for better service. And they complain about the experience at Minifree. It's natural.

BUT what is more important, is haven't asked anyone to vandalize your thread (as you've personally done with the previous Technoethical T400s thread).

In fact, if this forum member is who I think they are, I haven't had an e-mail exchange with them for almost half a year. It looks to me that they're very upset and they want to blow the whistle on Minifree.

I also haven't had any private e-mail exchange with this forum member (they have their contact form disabled) and I haven't asked our customer from half a year ago if they are the ones doing this report. I also don't feel comfortable asking them that, because it's kind of strange to come out of the blue and ask about a random forum thread. Also, this forum member (and former customer) hasn't contacted Technoethical in the past 5 months.

> FUD tactics used against me by a fierce competitor who wishes that my company didn't exist...

It's funny that you say that. Because you've been the one that didn't want my company to exist, or not a Libreboot-compatible hardware-selling type anyway.

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=1#comment-116242

And you've been the one spreading FUD about the T400s. What is being reported here in this thread and in many other forum posts by what they seem to be legit Minifree customers represent the reality of how Minifree does business. Which everybody wishes to change.

Tiberiu

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Like I said, I don't want to talk to you further. You continue to spread FUD about me, and accuse me of doing the same. I never got anyone to post in your T400S thread.

Of course, it's only natural that you'd deny my accusations, while continuing to take part in this thread. Your tactic thus far has been to try to get me to say things that paint myself in a negative light. You also want to drag on this "dispute" of ours in this thread as long as possible, so that people see the dispute instead of what the thread is all about, so that they become disinterested and turn their head away.

You also see fit to promote yourself, in a thread that is not about your company, while attempting to de-rail this thread.

I know how to deal with you. It's not by responding to you further, it's by bringing people here to write reviews about the recently re-launched X200.

You can troll me, but you can't troll my customers. Stay tuned.

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

Leah:
> You also see fit to promote yourself, in a thread that is not about your company, while attempting to de-rail this thread.

Get real. The history of events:

1. You announce the re-launch of X200 at Minifree, inviting people to place orders.

2. A forum member recommends buying from Technoethical instead, because with us "you know what you take". I certainly wasn't in contact with them. Had I been in contact with them, they would certainly not have repeated the misconception that our prices are high ("the price is big").

3. You then go and re-assert that "Minifree's X200 is half the price" than at Technoethical, while allegedly it's the same product. Well, that's a double lie. It's not half the price and it's not the same product! It's /based/ on the same (Lenovo) product, but the specs are different (double the RAM and double the WiFi speed to only take into account the official description of the two products on their respective websites) and the quality is different too, as it's been reported many times on this forum. You know very well all these yourself, but you play dumb.

4. I am prompted by these lies to make a statement, without any intention to start an argument.

5. You dismiss the facts I present about the quality and then about the price and you go on with your propaganda.

6. Another forum member comes to confirm what I said and contradicts you, from the position of being your customer.

7. You go paranoia accusing me that I look for customers with issues with your company and bring them to write negatively to hijack your forum thread.

8. I then explain in detail that I haven't been in contact and couldn't contact these forum members.

9. You again play dumb and continue with the false accusations, in a second attempt to try to spin it by victimizing yourself.

Oh Leah, I read the kinds of you like open books. Stop this nonsense, get real and do better job for the customers that trust you. Don't wait for them to complain (request to replace) to treat them well (prepare a good replacement). And you'll see you'll not get so many complaints any more. Take my advice, the way you're doing business will not scale. Because you are rising artificially on a growing pile of skeletons (old orders) that keep cracking underneath you and you need to take care of them. Because people don't stay silent forever.

Tiberiu

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Sigh

People like me, huh? Get over yourself, sheesh

But yeah, borderline sociopaths never know when to quit. So I'm asking you to quit: please stop this madness.
(btw even if this is wrong, you're certainly behaving that way. And if I'm right... well it explains a lot)

Here's a factual account of what has happened in this thread:
1) I posted a link telling people about a newly launched product for this christmas (re-launch)
2) Thread chugging along just nicely... Minifree getting sales. Here I am working hard trying to get orders shipped, until...
3) ...oh look, a competitor is spamming my thread with their product instead.
4) ...oh look, competitor spreading FUD on a thread about another company that they compete with
5) competitor repeatedly trolls and attempts to de-rail a thread about a competitor's product, to make people not buy it
6) bla bla bla you know the rest. basically then I'm spending countless hours defending myself against said competitor, who is lying to people trying to get them to believe that Minifree is bad and that their company is better. bla bla bla

oh, and then they accuse me of stuff, while being super hostile and not giving up, relentlessly attacking as much as they can, trying to de-rail and escelate as much as possible

ring a bell?

I'll say again: please stop responding. I don't want to talk to you further.

EDIT: btw I'm currently packing several X200s for my customers. They're shipping today.
Next-day delivery. Even USA ones. All of these shipments will likely reach their intended customers tomorrow.
And I'm being super efficient in everything. I meant it earlier when I said that my customers would get their orders "before christmas" ;)

I'd rather focus on my customers than on you, Tiberiu. I'm 9999% sure you'll ignore my request, but I ask once more: please stop responding on this thread, and please leave me alone. I've had enough of your attacks. I don't want to spend all my time defending myself from your antics.

Technoethical
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Joined: 08/15/2014

Leah:
> 3) ...oh look, a competitor is spamming my thread with their product instead.

Citation needed. You think zotis is one of your competitors?

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/libreboot-x200-returns-minifree#comment-124128

Tiberiu

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

So hey, Tiberiu.

As I said earlier, I don't want to talk to you. I only came to this thread to check up on it just now. Just FYI: I shipped 8 laptops today. I'm shipping many more tomorrow, and on Friday.

I'm sending them all to Trisquel forums to write reviews.

~Leah

vltr
Offline
Joined: 09/30/2017

>Get real. The history of events:

I also share the view that everything happened in the way that Tiberiu said.

>Oh Leah, I read the kinds of you like open books. Stop this nonsense, get real and do better job for the customers that trust you. Don't wait for them to complain (request to replace) to treat them well (prepare a good replacement). And you'll see you'll not get so many complaints any more. Take my advice, the way you're doing business will not scale. Because you are rising artificially on a growing pile of skeletons (old orders) that keep cracking underneath you and you need to take care of them. Because people don't stay silent forever.

I am also having the impression that this is the kind of business model that this company is promoting, and I also share the view that it is not sustainable over time. You expressed it here in a very poetic manner :D ... very appropriate for the Leah's self created drama about a conspiracy involving the whole world against her.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

Actually, no. It's just you and Tiberiu against me. Nobody else.

But you've tried to turn others against me, by painting Minifree as being worse than it is. You've repeatedly spread FUD against my company, and I hope that the negative effect of everything you and Tiberiu have done in this thread is not permanent.

bandicooty98
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Joined: 12/14/2017

Okay... No FSF-Approved system for me. I thought the free software community was one of the few places on this damn planet that hadn't gone bad yet. I'll just go with the flow: I've bought a shiny new Windows 10 laptop. I seriously had plans on buying a libre system... But this kind of ruined it. But as the whole world is getting worse and worse... Like I said, I'll just go with the flow :)

P.S.: Spotify works great!

loldier
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Joined: 02/17/2016

Says a brand new member of some three hours. Good going.

Why bother registering here if all you have to say is endorse Spotify?

new_member.png
libreleah
Offline
Joined: 04/03/2017

bandicooty98 I put an end to it all. See end of thread. I offered a deal with the other companies so that we don't be hostile towards each other, and instead compete in a friendly manner more or less, instead of attacking each other.

loldier
Offline
Joined: 02/17/2016

Leah, I hope you do realize that you cannot bargain with them. Their goal is to remove you.

It has all and everything to do with this:

...being involved in this important movement means having to deal with a leader that has a record of instability. But it doesn't have to continue to be this way. Leaders have power until we stop granting it to them.

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/libreboot-x200-returns-minifree?page=2#comment-124499

That's why they are instigating people to sign up for Trisquel to file a complaint so that they can challenge you with "evidence".

It's a thinly veiled ploy to destabilize you so you'll crack up and the rest will be easy.

libreleah
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Joined: 04/03/2017

The purpose of my peace offer is to prevent such incidences as in this thread in the future.

loldier
Offline
Joined: 02/17/2016

I understand and I know your intentions are all good.

They are not interested in "peace", not with you. They want to make you look bad. Stop giving them ammo by replying to trollish posts that are aimed at tilting your healthy mental state of mind.

You must keep up the good work, only reply to genuine posts and carry on.