R Stallman and Trisquel (google)

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Spinoza
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Joined: 07/07/2013

I know the topic is closed, but i want to come back at this issue. r Stallman calls Ubuntu ( after Ubuntu 12.04 ) spyware ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP8CNp-vksc) but what about Trisquel. Every website i visit is by default send to the DNS-servers of Google. I think Google is more sort of spyware than Canonical.

I find this greatly disturbing. A Free OS , an advocate of Free Software, that let its users search the internet through Google. I dont understand this.

BTW, i tried the suggestions in the other topic to replace the DNS-server, but i dont seem to understand how to do this.

lembas
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Joined: 05/13/2010

I take it you're talking about this thread https://trisquel.info/en/forum/you-might-be-using-google-name-server

As quidam commented there, it was a mistake that's been fixed.

To get rid of the google dns, edit these files as super user and remove the line with 8888
/etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/original
/etc/resolv.conf

That's probably all you need to do. If however you cannot connect to the internet after that, you need to (put temporarily thoes back so your net works) and then find some other name servers and put those in the files instead.

Magic Banana

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Joined: 07/24/2010

I have recently installed Trisquel on a new laptop (using the ISO proposed on the download page of the site) and:

  • /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/original does not exist;
  • /etc/resolv.conf does not contain any line with Google's DNS addresses.

Anyway, to those who want to the remove Google's DNS lines (if there), here are two commands:
$ sudo sed -i /8888/d /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/original
$ sudo sed -i /8888/d /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/original

As explained above, the second command will probably raise an error:
sed: can't read /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/original: No such file or directory

GustavoCM

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Joined: 11/20/2012

Both commands were typed equal. Hmm, just got it.

t3g
t3g
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Joined: 05/15/2011

Isn't the new 6.01 ISO supposed to fix this in addition to having the Saucy kernel and Xserver updates.

We are getting to a point where an official release needs to happen ASAP as the current ISO is over a year old at this point.

quantumgravity
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Joined: 04/22/2013

I know it was a mistake, but it's one of a few really serious ones... google dns, running ssh etc.

I think one active developer is just not enough for maintaining a secure system.

Magic Banana

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Joined: 07/24/2010

It sure helps although more developers usually mean a finer division of the work and not people checking each other's works. E.g., Debian, the largest free software project, had a critical bug in OpenSSL for two years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSL#Vulnerability_in_the_Debian_implementation

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

Yes, exactly, so let's stop the FUD please. The Google DNS thing, for example, wasn't even inherited from Ubuntu. It had nothing to do with Trisquel being based on Ubuntu, has been fixed, and now it's time to move on. I really don't want this to turn into another thread of people trying to blur the lines between Trisquel and Ubuntu, going "OMG Trisqbuntu!"

quiliro@congresolibre.org
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Joined: 10/28/2010

El lun 17 mar 2014 21:34:46 ECT, name at domain escribió:
> has been fixed,

It has not. Yesterday I had to remove it manually from an updated
installation.
--
Saludos libres,
Quiliro Ordóñez
600 8579

onpon4
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Joined: 05/30/2012

Doing a regular upgrade, or grabbing a new CD image and doing a clean install with it?

No upgrade ever changes config settings; that would be a terrible behavior of the upgrade system (imagine finding that all of your bookmarks were lost because it was decided that the default settings of the browser needed to be changed, for example). So this was not a problem that could be fixed with upgrades.

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

"this was not a problem that could be fixed with upgrades."

Yes, exactly.

quantumgravity
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Joined: 04/22/2013

Don't know why the dns problem should become any better just because it's not inherited from ubuntu.

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

Did I say it was? No. It's good to be clear on where problems come from and not mis-attribute them. Not saying you did but this commonly comes up in discussions about Trisquel being based on Ubuntu.

t3g
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Joined: 05/15/2011

Many free software projects that are one developer don't thrive. Especially when the developer has a full time job and the project is secondary.

The most successful free software/open source projects are backed by a commercial entity or are established enough to make their money as part of a software foundation with commercial supporters.

But what about this "community" that is supposed to be the life blood? Most of the time, the decisions are made only by a select few as part of a meritocracy. A "community user" is often told to fix it himself if he has an issue with something, but the majority of the time he is ignored when its intended to be integrated upstream. You may as well be a one man team.

Chris

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Joined: 04/23/2011

!rand starting!

The problem with saying Trisquel is a one-man show is that there are other people involved. Frequently indirectly. Trisquel takes the work of Canonical and fixes it essentially. Then there is Jason who maintains a wonderful repository. While outside of the distribution it enables people to get Trisquel working on newer and not yet supported hardware. Then there are others yet- ThinkPenguin- (CEO here) which tests everything against the distribution. It might seem minimalistic value, but a significant amount of hardware that is suppose to work doesn't. Then there is also the FSF. The FSF has the Respect Your Freedom certification program and that's also important because it guarantees the issues with buying random hardware go away. When you buy a TP-link wireless card you don't know what your getting. Despite h-node claiming it's free software friendly there is no guarantee that it actually is. Manufacturers change chipsets on a whim and frequently don't advertise the change. Even companies that advertise the chipset for a given product often fail to update it. So when you ordered that RTL8187 wifi card did it actually ship with an RTL8187 chip? It may not have. Or if it did, maybe that adapter doesn't work right, with free software. Having an actual community around a project helps it to thrive. It's not just a one man show no matter if it's just one developer taking care of the core development issues. Not to mention there have been a number of contributions from outside parties to Trisquel over the last 3-4 years. Just because your not aware of them doesn't mean it's not happening.

!rant ending!

trisq

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t3g,

You say a community user is often told to "fix it himself". Sounds like you have experienced this yourself here? If so, what is the background. I haven't noticed such treatment around here.

Also, what is with the urgency of your needing an "ASAP" new release of Trisquel as if something being 1 year old is already in the graveyard. Personally I don't understand why this matters. And I want to. Why is this so important to you or others?

Thank you.

quantumgravity
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Joined: 04/22/2013

Yeah it's a bit like with ubuntu.
The community should please contribute but all decisions are made by one person.

Legimet
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Joined: 12/10/2013

The 6.0.1 iso still isn't the one on the download page, and last time I checked, it still didn't contain the saucy lts enablement stack.

One problem I have with contributing is that very few people look at the issue tracker and try to fix anything (except for "Spammers be gone"). This makes it hard to contribute. For example, I submitted a fix for an issue with the gtk2-engines-oxygen package and Abrowser. It's as simple as adding one line to the package helper, but only one person replied, and it hasn't been fixed.

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

The 6.0.1 iso still isn't the one on the download page because it's not released yet.

Legimet
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Joined: 12/10/2013

Is there any estimated release date? Updated isos are supposed to be released every 6 months, and it's been over a year now.

jxself
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"Updated isos are supposed to be released every 6 months"

I'm not sure where that came from. AFAIK, Trisquel has no specific release date, instread doing it "when it's ready." Seems like a good date for 6.0.1 as well as 7.

Legimet
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Joined: 12/10/2013

That's what it says here.

"We will publish point releases every 6 months including all improvements done to the system in that time."

t3g
t3g
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Joined: 05/15/2011

It just shows there is no clear leadership or direction for this project. People want updated ISOs because it contains newer kernels and the current ISO is over a year old. Their requests get ignored, the 6.01 ISO is stuck in "testing" limbo, and who knows if it is ever made official down the road.

Why is a new ISO also important? Ubuntu 12.04 was released in April 2012 and Trisquel 6 was released in March 2013, meaning that Trisquel is about a year behind in the Ubuntu release. With that track record, Trisquel 7 will not be released until March/April 2015.

A new ISO is important becuase people get new hardware and the 3.2 kernel is too old. Canonical recognized this and that's why there are point releases for their LTS products including newer kernel and xserver updates.

So what is the problem? Canonical does the majority of the work for you in the packaging. Sure, you guys deblob the kernel and turn Firefox into Abrowser, but the majority of the packages are untouched. Just release the damn 6.01 ISO with the Saucy kernel and call it a day.

jxself
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"It just shows there is no clear leadership or direction for this project."

Becuase of the "when it's ready" policy? Please note that the Debian Project has the same policy. If you wish to criticize Trisquel for a lack of an exact date it seems you must also criticize the Debian Project as well.

I think you're oversimplying the work done by Trisquel. I see people sitting around complaining. "One person project" etc. Not one of these people are posting anything to the trisquel-devel mailing list trying to get involved in development, so of course it's small because who else will do it if not Ruben? Because no one else is posting on the trisquel-devel mailing list (i.e. "Here's a patch for an updated Helper to fix Trisquel bug # xxx...") Until/unless that happens I'm going to ignore them because anyone can sit on the sidelines and bitch. It's quite another thing to actually do stuff.

t3g
t3g
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Ruben makes the final decisons on things no matter how much you contribute. You could spend all that work patching something and there is NO guarantee in if he will put it in there or not. Heck, most of us don't know where he is most of the time. There's also people who aren't as technical as others, but still want to use the OS because it fits into those ideals.

There seems to be more and more people making comments on this boards in how they need to have an updated ISO with the newer kernel to properly support their hardware and fix the Google DNS issue out of the box. If they get ignored, it risks them abandoning the support for this project and simply going for Ubuntu or another alternative GNU/Linux distro that has more of a structure.

Hopefully those aren't going onto deaf ears as it has been proposed for months now to get a newer ISO for 6. Most of us know about the "when its done" policy and while that is fine and dandy for Trisquel 7, the existing version needs to have some updates.

Here's another thing too: When Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty) releases next month, 12.04 will get the backported kernel from 14.04 soon after. So if you are planning on releasing this ISO soon, then go for the Saucy kernel. If you feel that the ISO could take 3+ months, then maybe the Trusty kernel is better.

jxself
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"Ruben makes the final decisons on things no matter how much you contribute. You could spend all that work patching something and there is NO guarantee in if he will put it in there or not."

Yes, and many projects use the "benevolent dictator" model so that's completely irrelevant. My point, which I think you got, was that complaints are of limited benefit, "actually doing something" is far more productive. So make your choice: Sit around and complain or try to help. If you do the first I will probably start to ignore you. If you'd like to see things happen, help make that happen. That is something that could actually help Trisquel: More people helping so that it doesn't *have* to be a one-person job. As it is, the trisquel-devel mailing list is pretty quiet. If you or anyone else wants to see things get better, I challenge you to meet up on the trisquel-devel mailing list and submit your changes and improvements to fix bugs and etc. If you are then ignored, fine. But complaining about being ignored without actually have been in the position to have been ignored in the first place is just silly.

Legimet
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Joined: 12/10/2013

I've tried to contribute through the issue tracker, but am being ignored. I didn't know about trisquel-devel. Is that the proper place to contribute?

jxself
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Thanks for reporting bugs & helping to make Trisquel better. If you were to make a helper to modify, say, vpb-driver-source it would probably be best to submit that there.

t3g
t3g
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The problem is that contributors aren't being compensated financially for their work and Ruben probably will not share that with anyone even if they handle a huge chunk of his work.

The "benevolent dictator" model is hurting the free software ecosystem in general because it causes others who are left out to fork a project or create a competing GNU/Linux distro. Rinse and repeat.

Chris

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I can think of a number of people who have contributed over the past year. A lot of them were just persistent. Ruben still did all the real work (ie not everybody mind you, some I think did some work) so to say you can't make a difference is ridicules. I believe Ruben's on IRC all the time and while he is fairly bad at responding to email I have received replies on a number of occasions over the years. There is also the developer mailing list. Post the issue, follow up on, ask others to try and point Ruben to it, etc. There is a very good chance it'll be fixed/implemented if it's feasible. If the work is done it's even more likely to get implemented.

axgb
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Joined: 09/22/2013

It was a mistake. These things happen.