so now we ban unpopular posts?

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quantumgravity
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I think the new rating system is basically a good thing, since it provides direct feedback from the community.
However, the fact that negative votes can cause the post to hide for members of the board and even to become unreadable for non-members (so basically it got deleted for outsiders) is very critical in my view.
It's of course not literally censorship since people can express their opinions somewhere else, but still i think it's a horrible step of intolerance for a freedom loving community
I'm well aware that the intention of this system is to get rid of unwelcome (some also call them 'different') opinions and keep the trisquel board free of non-conform ideas.
Is that the spirit of free culture?
I therefore propose to remove the function of banning posts.

davidnotcoulthard (not verified)
davidnotcoulthard

Well, what would a communism advocate be called in the US?

Having said that where does it say that the up/down vote of a post can cause it to disappear (sort of)? I seem to have missed it (and personally I disagree with the diappearing part - it's good if a comment is shown to be disliked a lot, if it causes a flame war then get rid of the whole thread on the grounds of a flame war (rather than a lot of dislikes), but not a single post like that).

davidnotcoulthard (not verified)
davidnotcoulthard

"A SOCIALIST developer WHO BELIEVES IN THE - AND + IN A PUBLIC FORUM, that will determine the validity and Longevity of your comments. They are worse, than the cold war wall."

Considering that he wouldn't directly decide if the comments are there to stay I don't see how it's worse than the cold war wall (and MAD and all those things), as (very?) disagreeable as it is. And how is that socialist anyway?

Jodiendo
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davidnotcoulthard

And how is that socialist anyway?

Production under socialism would be directly and solely for use. With the natural and technical resources of the world held in common and controlled democratically, the sole object of production would be to meet human needs. This would entail an end to buying, selling and money. Instead, we would take freely what we had communally produced. The old slogan of "from each according to ability, to each according to needs" would apply.

So how would we decide what human needs are? This question takes us back to the concept of democracy, for the choices of society will reflect their needs. These needs will, of course, vary among different cultures and with individual preferences—but the democratic system could easily be designed to provide for this variety.

We cannot, of course, predict the exact form that would be taken by this future global democracy. The democratic system will itself be the outcome of future democratic decisions. We can however say that it is likely that decisions will need to be taken at a number of different levels—from local to global. This would help to streamline the democratic participation of every individual towards the issues that concern them.

In socialism, everybody would have free access to the goods and services designed to directly meet their needs and there need be no system of payment for the work that each individual contributes to producing them. All work would be on a voluntary basis. Producing for needs means that people would engage in work that has a direct usefulness. The satisfaction that this would provide, along with the increased opportunity to shape working patterns and conditions, would bring about new attitudes to work.

In this case a GNU/LINUX OSI that is sponsor under the FSF RULES, protocols, Believes and idealism of software freedoms
Ask RMS he is a hard core Socialist.

davidnotcoulthard (not verified)
davidnotcoulthard

So how is the demos deciding whether a post should be there to be seen socialist (though a bit silly in my opinion)?

Dave_Hunt

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The demos deciding whether a post should be seen has nothing to do with the distribution of wealth; it's not socialist, capitalist, whatever... I don't plan to paarticipate in this thumbs up/down thing; just not sure how it's to be used.

davidnotcoulthard (not verified)
davidnotcoulthard

Ah, my bad (not the first human being to forget about how unrelated the lack of democracy and socialism are!)

lloydsmart

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Why don't we just move over to Reddit? There's already a Trisquel sub, and Reddit is run on free software.

Jodiendo
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lloydsmart

Could you elaborate more details about reddit?

quidam

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We do endorse that sub, we even link to it on the sidebar, but we don't outsource any of the project resources to third parties.

quantumgravity
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I want to stress that two down votes are sufficient for the post to disappear. That means that two likewise minded members can outvote every comment they don't like, given that other people don't vote.
So it's not even representative.
It's just: find a buddy to become a moderator.

davidnotcoulthard (not verified)
davidnotcoulthard

It's just: Create 2 E-mail accounts and sign an account in this forum to each of them.

quidam

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> However, the fact that negative votes can cause the post to hide for members of the board and even to become unreadable for non-members (so basically it got deleted for outsiders) is very critical in my view.

Being unreadable by non-members was a bug that I just fixed. Bad comments are only intended to be collapsed, but other than that they can still be read and commented on.

> I want to stress that two down votes are sufficient for the post to disappear.

It is actually three at this moment, but the trigger mechanism can be tuned up, like using the average rate instead, or a combination of both. In any case I trust the community will use the voting system with some common sense, it is just intended to discourage trolls and posts that don't follow the community guidelines. It also makes easier to tag either comments or posts for manual moderation if needed.

quantumgravity
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'the trigger mechanism can be tuned up, like using the average rate instead, or a combination of both. '

I really think that should be done, because three people disagreeing doesn't qualify a post as trolling in my opinion.

quidam

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Maybe we should add a section on the guidelines on how to downvote. You should not downvote somebody just because you disagree with them, downvotes should be for comments suggesting the use of non-free software, rude messages, trolling, or very off-topic comments.

davidnotcoulthard (not verified)
davidnotcoulthard

I very much doubt it'd get read.

Personally, I think down/upvotes shouldn't determine whether posts are shown. However, posts that get a lot of downvotes should get a red background behind it (and not much else). Perhaps the ones that get a lot of upvotes should get a green background (and not much else).

quidam

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I just added some styling, marking the bad posts in red, and the good ones in green. This should make it easier to find answers in help request posts.

Jodiendo
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Quidam

In the real world and for the sake of fair play, I hope it will be kept simple and democratic, so everybody will benefit from it.... Even do, I don't agree with it, because, It has and I believe it does carries its own flavor of censorship...

andrew
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It can be bypassed with the mailing list:
http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-users

Andrew

quidam

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It is true that the voting doesn't affect the lists, but I don't think you can call it bypassing since downvoted comments are fully accessible and functional regardless of the collapse mechanism.

SuperTramp83

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I don't like this voting shajt - indeed I gave -1 to each post in order to state it clearly..
vote comments!? What is this - shajtbook?

quidam

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So... please don't do that ;)

I just made two adjustments: now it requires three or more downvotes *and* the average to be negative. Also, it now bypasses admins.

SuperTramp83

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I won't quidam...as long as it is absolutely clear that I disagree
:)

Dave_Hunt

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Is there or will there be a way to search forum based on ratio of up to down votes?

Chris

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Kinda scary conceptually. People might become afraid to speak, but then again you can already criticize someone in a similar way.

Jodiendo
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This message is for Chris only. No one else.

I agree with your statement, it is scary!

Be careful you might get down vote it.. I already was down voted by stating true facts of socialism to another forum member....Probably people think I'm a communist!!

This down vote concept in my opinion is a form of censorship.....

Why change something that was working perfectly normal?

But, we the users, don't own the web site or control the forum, they could do what ever they want....

I hope and Eventually people will complain enough to be taken out totally.

It would be nice and more democratic, If we could vote yes or No, as Trisquel users and forum members. That way the majority of votes will determine the course of action.

So, do we have to be careful, in how we express our selves in any trisquel forum? or the forum "gestapo police" will get you?

t3g
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This community has been self-destructive for a while now.

Jodiendo
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t3g

Respectfully, no one is in self destruct mode, we are just voicing our opinions...

Maybe, you should voice your concerns and points of view about the down-vote system. Instead of blowing up comments of self destruct! LOL

respectfully

SuperTramp83

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this message is for everyone (not only jodiendo).
I will state again my opinion about this voting/downvoting - I DON'T like it! It is stupid, useless and facebook shajt resembling.. if I like or dislike someone's post i will say it clearly with human words - don't need some stupid - or + to express myself..
But please have some common sense and stop yelling about socialism comunism or whatever - this is a forum about something we all like and admire (trisquel) - it has nothing to do with politics or "self-destruction", whatever that is..

p.s - socialism and comunism are very old noble ideas that never existed anywhere in practice and in the real world. We only had distorted and alienated misuse of those ideas. Russia never had comunism (nor ex jugoslavia,socialism) - just fascism tranvested behind distorted and misused "socialist" extrapolated and misplaced ideology- which is exactly what we have today in the vast majority of the globe - fascism in its original italian significance - id est globalized corporativism..

Jodiendo
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SuperTramp83

You have an excellent point, maybe we should make a forum to collect votes, with the focus only: To abolish or keep the down vote systems (- or + ) based only on: YES OR NO comments...nothing else. Overall as a democratic community.