Technical advantages of Trisquel over Debian?
Assuming that a person installs Debian, but only the free software components of it, what are the technical advantages of Trisquel over Debian?
At a fundamental level: none. Although the defaults are different and a user may prefer Trisquel's to Debian's, or the opposite. GRUB's configuration come to my mind because I have just discussed it in that thread: https://trisquel.info/forum/new-user-root-password-problems
At the application level, Trisquel provides software that is a little less stable than in Debian stable but much more stable than in Debian testing. It takes advantage of all the modifications made by Ubuntu for its LTS versions (between Debian testing and Trisquel).
I assume here that there is absolutely no freedom issue in your Debian install. That is what you asked us to do. It is not that easy to achieve though. Especially if the user is not already aware of the freedom issues Debian raises (the "unfree" repository that is repeatedly mentioned in Debian's documentation, the applications such as the Web browser that recommend proprietary software before the Trisquel project fixes them, the rare differences between "free" according to the FSF and "free" according to the DFSG, etc.).
Its debatable that Debian Stable is more "stable" than an LTS release of Ubuntu/Trisquel considering they both contain old package versions that have been "frozen" and tested to get security updates without breaking the system. You get point release updates instead of major releases during the 2 year cycle of Debian or 5 year cycle of Ubuntu/Trisquel.
Oh and saying something is "stable" in the realm of Debian equates more to "old" when you think about it. In reality, with the 5 year lifespan of Ubuntu LTS releases, it is more desirable than the 2 year lifespan of Debian Stable for servers and corporate workstations. Oh and Ubuntu has PPAs so you have the option to get backported packages. Debian does not.
There is "Debian LTS" now: https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2014/msg00082.html
Raphaël Hertzog, a Debian developer, is even partly paid to take care of this support. There has been no promise to make every Debian version LTS though (see the second question in the brief FAQ).
Thanks Magic Banana. Yes, I am aware of the ethical and philosophical advantages of Trisquel over Debian. So yes, my question assumes a "free" Debian install where no non-free software repositories are used and so on. I want to testdrive Debian to examine its user-friendliness for a non-expert and compare with Trisquel.
My parents (both accountants) have been happily using Trisquel for many years (5-6 years I believe) on their desktop computer. I installed it as well as the applications they wanted (GnuCash, Freeciv, etc.). I let the default (very easy to use) desktop environment but customized it to their tastes (my mother wants launchers for everything). My mother never installs anythings but takes care of the regular updates whenever the system indicates some are to be installed. I do the distribution updates when I visit them (Trisquel releases a new version every two years but supports it for five years).
For Gravmass, they received a laptop from their kids. I chose it without any pre-installed OS and I bought a Wifi adapter that is compatible with Linux-libre. I installed Trisquel 7. I installed the exact same list of packages as on the desktop computer (Synaptic makes that very easy). I copied the whole content of /home too. That includes the personal configuration files. As a consequence, the whole thing was an easy operation.
I configured the NAT router so that I can remotely log in both systems via SSH... but I never need to: Trisquel just works!
Many years ago, I installed Trisquel for my brother (a sport teacher) too. He recently bought a new laptop and *asked* me to install Trisquel on it. Like for my parents, I anticipated that the Wifi would not work out-of-the-box and bought the same Wifi adapter for my brother. He was however lucky in his purchase: no adapter required! Ironically, he told me he cannot get the Wifi under Windows 8.1 (which came pre-installed on the laptop and that he did not want me to erase). I guess drivers need to be found and installed but my politics is "never help anyone with proprietary software (that would not be helping: proprietary software is the problem)". :-) Contrary to my parents, my brother is not afraid of installing new applications. Trisquel makes that very easy thanks to the "Install/remove applications..." entry in the menu.
I'm not very experienced with Trisquel, but one thing I noticed is that in aptitude, things that require root ask for the user password to become root, rather than for the root password (As aptitude in Debian 7.7 does). This is a benefit if you're using sudo rather than su.
Trisquel is based on Ubuntu. The Trisquel releases based on Ubuntu LTS have long term support as well, longer than that of Debian.
The agreed plan seems to be to make new Trisquel releases based only on Ubuntu LTS releases <https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/2013-03-05-meeting>. I'd prefer that it tracks all Ubuntu releases, so as to have newer software available; Ruben has mentioned in IRC that maybe Trisquel will revert to tracking all releases. Debian releases have happened about once every 2 years, so we can expect Trisquel releases with *at least* about the same frequency, but at a more predictable interval.
It will be easier to have a fully free Trisquel system than a fully free Debian system because there are differences between FSF-approved licenses and Debian-DFSG-approved licenses (Debian approves the Artistic License 1.0 for instance, which is very vague and I would avoid). Also, Debian puts some GNU manuals in non-free (It doesn't allow verbatim-copy only sections containing opinions as the GNU FDL invariant section allow, but it supports and distributes proprietary software, see <http://jxself.org/debian-doubletalk.shtml>); that's a practical problem if you intend to avoid proprietary software but want to use GNU manuals.
I don't know of many other technical differences because I don't have much time using Trisquel. I use Debian without the proprietary software as my main system and I'm considering switching to Trisquel completely. I'm also interested in knowing more about the differences.
Regards.
I can think of these:
- Trisquel doesn't promote the use of non-free software; Debian does.
- Ubuntu-based distributions, such as Trisquel, are more widely supported in the non-free world due to its popularity and widespread adoption. It's worth to note that .deb packages are not always compatible between both distributions.
- There are more pre-built packages in Ubuntu (also Trisquel) than what Debian can offer.
- Launchpad, a proprietary service, offers additional way to get more software.
- Debian releases are usually less up-to-date, but more stable (the strongest point in favor of Debian IMHO).
I personally think that Debian (incl. spin-offs like gNewSense) is the second best general purpose GNU/Linux distribution after Trisquel, as it is well supported on non-x86 hardware, such as some low-cost ARM boards and Chromebooks, or MIPS-based computers from Lemote, and the others.
I've never used Debian before (only tried gNewSense), so take these points with a grain of salt.
Update: Forgot to mention GetDeb, which is also a Ubuntu specific service.
The code running Launchpad is free software/open source under AGPLv3: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-is-now-open-source
Nothing is stopping you from running your own Launchpad server. Its just that Canonical hosts the files for you for free and eats the hosting costs.
Thank you, I wasn't aware about this. I've read somewhere that it's not free software (probably in some old forum post), and have taken it as a fact. This is a very good news for me (despite its age) 'cause this removes an obstacle by providing a both free/libre repository hosting.
I used both distributions for quite some time now.
From the freedom perspective, trisquel is a very convenient and save way to run a 100% free OS.
In Debian, it's a bit annoying to check every add-on before installing, like in your browser, or maybe also in your desktop environment.
Besides, Debian is not always easy to set up; I experienced many installations ending with a shell prompt; you want to fix the issue by quickly installing your DE of choice, but oh: the sources.list don't contain any online resources if you didn't set up your wireless during install (say, you didn't have the wpa key at hand). Then you find that all kind of stuff isn't installed, that your usb stick doesn't get recognized and so on and so on.... BUT it's true: once all problems are fixed and it's actually running, it's running forever and ever.
It's the most stable system I've ever used and sadly my experience with trisquel was not quite like that.
I can say that not a single one of my debian (stable) systems had any problem - and I'm using it for seven years now.
Honestly, the perfect system for me would be Debian with the policy of trisquel.
Honestly, the perfect system for me would be Debian with the policy of trisquel.
gNewSense 4 "Ucclia" is coming soon: http://www.gnewsense.org
I am a translator!
the thing i like about debian: performance! and stability
the thing I don't like about debian: even the most obvious and easy things on bubbuntu and derivatives can get frustrating with debian if you are a noob.
I used it for several months and actually the few things I know how to do when i use gnu, I learned them using debian!!
But then I distrohopped like a crazy rabbit untill I found the beautiful one - trisquel
So easy to use that it would be a shame not to be lazy! :)
I use Trisquel rather than Debian because:
-Some programs don't have binaries for Debian, but have ones for ubuntu derivatives, so you save time you would otherwise be spending compiling.
-PPAs work with Trisquel by default, no tweaking required.
-It doesn't have non-free repositories.
-My laptop came with a Trisquel sticker and I'd feel horrid running Debian on a PC with a Trisquel sticker.
I've been using both distributions and one of the advantages Trisquel have over Debian are it's well chosen defaults: the desktop configuration, theme, preinstalled programs, Network manager, etc. are good examples.
Another advantages are the helpers scripts to package software and its web borwsers (Abrowser and icecat).
And I almost forgot, Trisquel just works: I remember that I bought a Wifi usb device and I needed to compile the firmware in Debian but the same firmware was already packaged in Trisquel by its developers.
I use Trisquel rather than Debian because:
- • Improved accessibility by default.
•- Custom desktop based on GNOME 3.12 fallback.
Here's what a perpetual newbie has to say about debian vs. Trisquel: I was a long-time user of debian until my Nvidia graphics card hosed the whole system, and I did not want the hassle of another Nvidia card install. Furthermore, I had experienced three or four new debian packages forced upon me, and the expense of fixing the broken upgrades, probably largely my fault because of confusion about the exact package names, soured me on debian, even though the professionals who helped me were efficient, knowledgable and successful in fixing my dilemmas. These debian installs were ultra stable for several years each time, to the extent that I forgot everything but sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade and was helpless when the inevitable happened.
The installation of Trisquel was a breeze, only marred by an inadvertent call for a proprietary package by one application (hplip) towards the end of the first installation that wanted a root password that doesn't exist in Trisquel and by a lousy combination of an old, usupported graphics chipset and a monitor with an unusual aspect ratio of 1680x1050.
None of this was Trisquel's fault, and the Trisquel community has been extremely helpful.
>only marred by an inadvertent call for a proprietary package by one application (hplip) towards the end of the first installation
That software asks for a proprietary package in Trisquel is a bug. If it isn't reported already, please report it in the bug tracker (“issues” at the navigation bar to the right in the forum).
I think amenex is talking about a version of HPLIP downloaded from the HPLIP website.
onpon4 said:
> I think amenex is talking about a version of HPLIP downloaded from the HPLIP website.
Nope; my notes say that I was installing HPLIP toolbox while using the Add/Remove Applications service running in my original installed Trisquel. I remember a different set of options presented during that original installation than during the second installation. Actually, during that second installation of Trisquel (necessitated by a blunder of mine involving that request for root access by hplip) I _did not_ install HPLIP toolbox. I found the network printer by a different method and used CUPS to configure it successfully.
Daring folks should try installing HPLIP toolbox and see what happens ... Maybe that will trigger the offending call to the HP website ... but the OS might have had to have detected a network printer beforehand.
Using the procedure Chris detailed in https://trisquel.info/fr/forum/h-node#comment-24649 you can tell if your HP printer might work.