Is there any interest in privacy & free software friendly services?

I for one would be interested in such a service. I try to run some of those services on a home server but I lack time and knowledge to have a fully functional setup. Knowing that there is a clear commitment to privacy and using Free software would be a big selling point for me!

Count me in as someone very much interested in such a service. Even if I didn't take advantage of all of the features, it'd be wonderful to have a libre alternative to a Google or Yahoo.

One additional idea, would be to provide MediaGoblin servers as well perhaps.

I'd love to be kept posted. Good luck!

Michael Mehrazar

name at domain wrote:

>I'm curious if people would pay for a set of services that had:
>
>1. clearly defined privacy policies
>2. based on free software
>3. developed and maintained by a trusted party (and possibly endorsed
>by
>respectable individuals and/or projects like the EFF, FSF, RMS, etc)
>
>There are some companies out there that I have wanted to like although
>found
>out that they were using proprietary systems and/or didn't have clear
>privacy
>policies defined, etc.
>
>The types of services I'm envisioning would include:
>
>you could spin up 100% free software friendly trisquel / parabola VPSs
>email services /w secure web, imap, pop/smtp (managed by the entity for
>ease
>of use, although possibly with the ability to connect domains to it)
>calendaring (integration with evolution/thunderbird/android/etc)
>personal wiki (save your notes- no need to setup your own wiki)
>file sharing (upload files for sharing with others)
>android/replicant notes application (sync your notes with a server and
>access
>notes through web interface too)
>storage space for backup and other uses (possibly with syncing options,
>etc.
>and maybe similar to drop box, making public folders, etc)
>secure xmpp (https ; would need )
>easy to use and free software friendly remote desktop solutions (a
>solution
>as easy to use as teamviewer w free software replacement)
>remote desktop environments for testing (possibly with some sort of
>Network
>Booting (PXE) )
>virtual private servers
>voip (purchase voip phones or voip ata adapters for connecting
>traditional
>phones)
>Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) server (including binary)
>.onion services like email server (possibly with no-cost option to
>ensure
>anonymity)
>many these services available through .onion
>vpn services
>accept anonymous bitcoin payments
>search engine services (privacy / anonymity / maybe working with others
>
>already doing it)
>possibly entertainment & news facilities (to facilitate ease of
>locating
>drm-free content; search engine that avoided sites that were DRM'ing
>content;
>probably based on user crowd-sourced data)
>
>and other similar services... for a monthly fee of maybe $20-$30 USD /
>month.
>
>Obviously there would have to be limitations on things like disk space,
>
>bandwidth caps, etc although these would be in a clearly defined.
>Possibly
>done in an upgradable way. So $10 might get you a cap of 10gb bandwidth
>for
>instance that could be used with any of these services. $20 might get
>you
>100gb bandwidth, etc.
>
>I'm sure this type of thing would have to be rolled out slowly. The
>idea
>though behind it is both privacy, freedom, and the rolling of services
>into
>one in such a way that ensured prices could be made reasonable.
>
>Think of it as being the first "internet" ISP. Think AOL for the
>technical
>user except with services that matter.

I'll pay for these services for sure... and if you throw in Mediagoblin I'll name my firstborn after you.

The Trisquel project didn't managed to get 100 members paying the minimum amount (5€) in 2 years or so and you believe you will find people willing to pay "$20-$30 USD/month" for a bunch of services that you can't possibly be good at all ?

I think your intentions are good and I would like to see and maybe use at least some of those services but that price tag just doesn't seem too realistic to me.

I've recently set up my own KVM-based vServer that runs Trisquel.
It hosts email, statusnet and GNU MediaGoblin.
MediaGoblin is reachable via http://www.isengaara.de/.

I installed MediaGoblin because other mediahubs such as http://vocano.de/ use the nonfree flashplayer for video playback. The also recommend other nonfree softwares. If you know the youtube url than you can watch the videos without nonfree software.

For email services I quote from Richard Stallman:

"The two ethical issues for an email service are (1) whether you can use it without running any nonfree software (including nonfree Javascript code from the site), and (2) whether it respects your privacy.

Last I heard, Gmail was satisfactory on issue 1, and probably so are many others. On issue 2, I have no way to verify that any email service is satisfactory. Therefore, I have no recommendation to offer.

However, I can suggest that it may be wise to use an email service that is not connected with your search engine. That way you can be almost sure that your email contents don't influence your search results. You shouldn't identify yourself to your search engine in any case."

Recently I heard about https://fripost.org/index.en.html which is maintained by fellows of the FSFE.

I pay about EUR 5 a month for this KVM based vServer.
For fripost you have to pay 200 SEK (about EUR 20) once. A small price for freedom

I would certainly pay for such a service. I could do my own, but time is an issue for me so it would be worth paying for a service that was convenient and respected freedom and privacy.

On 06/06/13 12:36, chris wrote:
> you could spin up 100% free software friendly trisquel / parabola
> VPSs email services /w secure web, imap, pop/smtp (managed by the
> entity for ease of use, although possibly with the ability to connect
> domains to it)

I'm already in the early stages of planning a pseudonymous BTC-payable
email service on a VPS.

Andrew.

Yes, I would be interessed. On technical side it seems to require a lot of know-how, and on legal side.. well, I am not aware of the issues there but I can guess there is something like data retension laws or log keeping. Have you checked if there is a demand for such a server in the Tor network? Also I hope you take low bandwidth and high latency of TOR in great consideration. It has been said (in clearnet), that an average user won't wait your site for minutes. if it ain't doing anything the first 5sec they'll wander away (Could longer for TOR).

I've been looking for affortable shell account so I didn't have to keep a machine running 24/7.

If you'd accept bitcoins as your mounthly fee, well .. it'd bring non-$ people to your potential customers too. Bear in mind you'd propably have to accept making a loss for at least a start. Start small, calculate and justify your fees well.. both to yourself and your customers.

I would love to see web service providers like that. For users that want to use advanced web services but don't want to use non-free saas or companies that have corporate interest in their data, I think it could be in high demand. Since it would provide useful web-only services like cloud storage and communication servers, I hope the impetous would be enough that many free-minded folk would be willing to pay a monthly fee.

Sure there's people interested. Just take a look at name at domain archives (I bet they exist): the availability of Freedom+Privacy respecting "cloud" services are one of the most asked questions there.

Chris, I would almost certainly sign up.

Although ...

I'd want a way to pay for the services I use, and not just plunk down c.$300 a year for a bundle.

What you're probably looking at is tiered service levels, like most places have. Micro/Small/Med/Large, or something like that.

For the most part, the only items relevant to your list that I shell out for are:

--Domain names (with registration privacy enabled of course)
--SFTP-accessible raw web space, sometimes with modules available for things like blogs/wikis/CMSs
--Webmail and associated services, esp. aliasing

Generally speaking a modest package for the latter two runs around $100/yr. and I have two or three of those running at any given time.

My favorite vendors over the years have been NearlyFreeSpeech and the Church of the Swimming Elephant (cotse).

Great feedback from everybody-

Keep it coming.

I'll be sure to post here if I get involved with helping setup anything or there is a subsidiary of ThinkPenguin, Inc. setup to work on pursuing a solution to these issues.

Chris

Another idea:

I've seen startups fund themselves by offering, for a very limited window and a fairly hefty price, a "Founding Member" option. Your early adopters get, for that fee, a small Lifetime version of your basic services for as long as your company runs. You get an influx of capital to keep the ship afloat while you build an extended customer base.

I really would love the opportunity to invest heavily up front, and not have a monthly/yearly bill.

Chris do you know how privacy laws may guide how Think Penguin will manage requests for user data?

Lets say a corporation, individual, or state wants access to John's data.

I would be comfortable if a court reviewed the request, openly, before Think Penguin turned over John's data. I would like it even more if Think Penguin could tell John about the request for his info, and whether Think Penguin complied.

I don't know about how this works in practice, or which laws apply. Would it play out like the scenario above? Or are there other/different steps?

Could you tell us how Think Penguin might handle requests for user info, and what steps the laws require? Do you plan to publish a policy on this kind of thing, if you launch the service?

In French, but interesting - about "self-hosted":

[1] http://www.auto-hebergement.fr/
[2] http://planet.auto-hebergement.fr/
[3] https://wiki.auto-hebergement.fr/

[4] http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-h%C3%A9bergement_%28Internet%29

Unfortunately, I can't afford this amount of money, though I'm interested.
I think privacy should be available to poor people, too. Perhaps a more flexible solution will be found.

(Independently of all the security measures such an organization would take...)

Unless it would be endorsed by a (good) secret service that I know is not controlled by the same interests that control the Western secret services (and one that would make an extensive background check on everyone that would join such a project, and a thorough job in constantly checking for subversions, of any kind) and that would certify its security, it would not be something I knew I could really trust in...

Since, I know, from experience, that activist organizations (due to its open nature) are easily infiltrated and subverted - independently of which persons have initially endorsed them.

Learn about the kind of things the "enemies of privacy" do, in order to know what you're up against...

(Here goes a small introduction: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=101456.msg603918#msg603918 + https://trisquel.info/en/forum/ixquickstartpage-launching-new-privacy-aware-email-service#comment-36315)

And, as I've repeatedly said, in here, before...

This is not the best way to go. We should not try to hide from Big Brother. We should, instead, be more worried about fighting it and taking it out of the equation.

Since, while we are all worried about setting up such networks, Big Brother will only grow in size, and scope. (Like it has, already - and very much.) And, by the time such networks are set up, we will all be (already) enslaved...

Anyway...

Soon, laws are going to be passed that will forbid the implementation of privacy on the Internet. And, unless, you are all willing to fight such laws - and, that is, politically - all that effort you'll make will be irrelevant.

Regarding the free vs. evil freeloaders problem: If you want to keep it screened yet anonymous, there are ways. Money orders in a very small amount, for example, might be sufficient to rid yourself of the drive-by spammer types, at least. Or you could use the riseup model of "write me an essay and tell me why I should trust you". It's all a lot of overhead, though. And since (I'm assuming) this is ultimately modeled as a business, it might not be cost-effective to be charitable.

As far as Hiding vs. Activism: There's no reason not to do both, and seeing it as either/or is limiting yourself. Most movements of resistance NEED both to move forward. And your assertion about what laws might or might not be passed "soon" is completely unsupported by evidence. Even if it turns out you're right someday, running your life based on what your antagonists MIGHT do is no way to live.

There is more to this issue than just the US government's invasion of our privacy. The issue extends to companies such as Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, and others.

They have an incentive to collect, track, and use the information for targeting advertisements, and potentially other purposes. For instance selling this data to governments.

I'm pretty confident that banks and other financial industries are already selling this private data to governments. I don't believe the government needs a warrant to buy this data from private entities. A company can legally give up information they have to an agent of the law without the law getting a subpoena or warrant (with warrants it would be in situations such as another you live with giving permission for a search). If the company refuses then a subpoena is needed.

So protecting yourself from Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and other financial entities is worthwhile. It may not help where a subpoena is issued or illegal collection of data is performed although that data is unlikely to be used in the court of law anyway. While there is still a threat here of that data eventually being used against the people (for instance going after serial murders, 'hackers', smaller financial fraudsters, etc) it is probably not currently being used that way as evidence or we would have heard about it. At least the evidence is not used directly. It may be getting used indirectly (ie leads to crime, though the evidence is not used against the person, the computer obtained thereafter is the evidence used in court).

There have been many creeps though from the beginning. Sections of laws passed after 9/11 did not just include 'terrorists'. It specified in at least some portions at least one other group of people. I'm not talking espionage either. It was something like hackers or serial murders. The point is it was totally and utterly illegal under the constitution.

However this little bit will set precedents for eliminating freedoms for other groups. We have already seen other laws passed which give the government the authority to prosecute people for crimes that travel abroad and commit acts which are only criminal here. This is not in theory legal although exceptions have been introduced to make it so and people are being prosecuted for breaking local laws overseas. People should be outraged over this. A person who visits Amsterdam as an example could be prosecuted for smoking pot after returning to the United States. It may seem reasonable to do for more outrageous or emotional crimes. However this leads to creep and will eventually include copyright infringers, etc. We are actually already seeing that in numerous cases. Right now it is still illegal in theory although that in practice has proven irreverent in other cases (people extradited for selling to countries which are on US trade embargo lists, but the people don't live/work/or even visit here, and so extradition should never happen, but it does, and people get sent to the US to face charges for crimes that didn't exist in the countries they operated from or sold to). If however there are some cases won by defendants in the USA the USA will probably expand the laws which say it is legal to prosecute people for local crimes that don't exist where the 'crime' was committed (think copyright infringement).

Should the United States be extraditing people from countries which are not part of the conventions on copyrights, have no copyright, and broke no laws in the United States? Those countries couldn't prosecute these individuals because these individuals broke no laws. Yet the US can extradite them and then prosecute for laws they weren't suppose to be confined to.

Just like quantumgravity said, I can't afford this amount of money, specially because I don't have a monthly income, and speaking of numbers, 1 USD equals to 2,20 BRL, which means I'll need to donate more than 40 BRL in order to donate 20 USD, this would be easy if I had a monthly income, and if such income would have a personal balance of 200 BRL, so I could pay for such service, donate for some other projects which I like (alternating donations through each of them for each month), and keep 100 BRL for my savings.

Don't worry, I'm not saying that it is expensive, I'm just saying that, since I don't have a monthly income, I can't afford this amount of money.

Best regards, ADFENO.
Have a nice day.

The issue about governments requesting data about the user; there is a very easy solution: Have 500 or whatever cheap usb sticks, one for each user, then if you get a request for the data, the user can choose if you destroy the usb stick. Then, even if they go into the building where the server is located, they cant do anything, even forensicially go through the hard drive