Trisquel 5.0 LTS alpha images ready for testing

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Magic Banana

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You wrote: "Sorry if I seemed to miss the point. I realize I didn't talk about giving to the community for the sake of giving away."

But that is not the point either. The point is: "the user should never be denied the fundamental freedoms that Free softwares grant".

This can be compared with the human rights. The focus is on the user and not the developer (in the same way that "no person shall be arbitrarily accused, arrested, or imprisoned" focuses on the people and not on the government that would give these rights for the sake of giving them).

R3vLibre
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Ok, so it seems we don't see things exactly the same way, then.
And it's good too :)

I agree with your definition of free software, this is it !

However, the freedoms free software grants has implications and consequences in themselves, which generate discussions like this one...

To me, all that emerged from there (communities, philosophical thoughts, pragmatic approaches, ...) is as important as free software itself. So, maybe, I am not focused on the exact purpose of FS, however FS as it is, is a good building block for the utopy I might have. Strangely, it's my discovery of FS that woke it even if it was not its main purpose...

In the end, maybe what's important is what we share in common : FS as it is is meaningful to both of us.

t3g
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So let us have this scenario:

I decide to provide computers for a small office and want to keep costs low so I install a LTS of Trisquel and free software programs from its repos to get things going. I may also provide a repository on my end that tweaks some things in their desktops to tailor to their company and also backport some software to the LTS version.

Let's say I want to create something proprietary to my company. Someone said earlier that it was ok as long as I wasn't copying it. But what if I am copying it to like 10 computers? Does the requirement of source apply if I only copy it to another 3rd party and not within my infrastructure?

Second, lets say the client(s) want Adobe Flash. In the default installs that I provide, Flash is not installed nor is the Ubuntu partners repository enabled. If I offer a link that initiates the the plugin install, it is on their accord and not helped by me. Does that still keep me in the clear?

The reason these questions keep coming up is that every day some Linux project is getting attacked by Apple or Microsoft due to patents that lie within Linux itself. If I were to go this route, I want to make sure that my business is protected as well from not only patent trolls, but the "rules" of the GPL and FSF.

Magic Banana

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Here is my take on your questions.

First of all "keeping cost low" really is not the best reason to use Free softwares. Controlling one's own computing (having the four freedoms defining Free software) is. It is worth educating the client about that.

You talk about "creating something proprietary to [your] company". If that means the software is not distributed outside the company (and whatever the number of computers in your company), no license is to be granted. Therefore, saying the software is "Free" or "proprietary" does not make much sense... but you could somehow argue that it is Free since the company (the only user) obviously has all rights (hence, the four freedoms too) on the software it has created in-house.

Reading again your post, you may actually mean "your company" is not really yours (it is not your employer) but a company contracting you. Then you are the author of the software and license it to the company. This company should be granted the freedoms it deserves (the software will do *its* work, not yours; the company must control the software). In other words, you should choose a Free software license (like the GPL). Among the granted freedoms, the company can install the software on as many computer as it wants. It can redistribute the software too. However, it is not required to (it is a freedom, not an obligation) and it will probably not to have an advantage over its competitor... that may contact you to pay for a license!

Pointing to proprietary softwares is not helping your client. Again, educating the client is the key to make her understand why she only wants Free software.

t3g
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I've seen BSD licences in popular software, but the main apparently it isn't approved but the modified is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FSF_approved_software_licenses

Probably a silly question, but you can mix and match GPL, BSD, and MIT licenses on a primarily FSF created operating system? Or do I have to stick with GPL based ones?

akirashinigami

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Sure you can. The software in Trisquel's repositories comes under many different licenses, not just the GPL.

akirashinigami

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Also, if you have questions about the GPL (which is understandable, it's a pretty complicated license, after all), you might want to check out http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html. They have answers to a lot of common questions about the GPL.

Magic Banana

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I actually believe the most common (and most recent) BSD license is the 2-clause one.

Just to complement akirashinigami's response:
* if you were thinking about the copyleft (in particular in the GPL), it only applies to derivative work. Juxtaposing softwares on a CD or in a repository is not deriving any work so there cannot be any incompatibility;
* if you were thinking of a loyalty to GNU's licenses, that would somehow be a radical (therefore stupid) decision. We do not bargain with the "Free" aspect (the granted freedoms) but, even if we have preferences over its implementation (i.e., over the specific licenses to choose to "take over the world"), any Free software license is acceptable.

SirGrant

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Ok well here is my take.

Yes, keeping costs low isn't the best reason to use free software (the freedom is) but it is a nice benefit. I could see it being attractive if you had a business to run.

If the program was internal (for the company) and not distributed it wouldn't be "proprietary". To explain if I write a program for myself I have all 4 freedoms (e.g. run/copy/study/modify) because I wrote it. It is basically defacto freedom I don't have to license it (assuming I'm the only one using this program). The question of freedom only really comes into play when I start sharing it. Does that second person/organization have the same freedoms (run/copy/study/modify) or not?

Your second part about this adobe flash thing aren't quite clear. You worry about keeping you in the clear but in what way? Copyright infringement? Patent issues? Having your office be 100% Free Software? Posting a link most likely isn't copyright infringement but you would have to read the adobe flash player licensing agreement. I haven't read it, but knowing it isn't free software is enough for me. Having people install flash would defentitly not put you in the clear as to having a 100% free software office. As far as patents going having a hyperlink I doubt wouldn't put you into patent trouble but I'm not a lawyer.

As far as having your business attacked over patents you should really consult a lawyer. However I will say this I doubt anyone will go after you unless you are distributing software to others. If you are just using the software to run your little office I don't think they will go after you. Also as far as following the rules of the GPL and such again if you are using the programs internally no one will go after you. The rules of the GPL are mainly concerned with when you share/distribute copies to others and making sure those others get the same freedoms that you had in the first place. But if you are never distributing copies you don't have to worry about providing sources to others or of those parts of the GPL.

akirashinigami

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I don't think you do. The difference between free and proprietary software isn't about money, or jobs, or donations. It's about whether or not users are allowed to modify and/or redistribute the software.

Daemonax
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The https-everywhere plugin seems to cause problems.

Checking khanacademy.org with it enable makes the site display like this. http://ompldr.org/vOW52bg

Disabling https-everywhere fixes the problem, re-enabling it causes the problem to return.

Could the https-everywhere plugin not be included by default?

akirashinigami

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The URL in that screenshot doesn't even say https://, though.

Daemonax
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On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 20:52 +0200, name at domain wrote:
> The URL in that screenshot doesn't even say https://, though.

None the less disabling the https-everywhere plugin solves the issue,
enabling it brings the problem back. It's the only variable that is
being changed. It seems reasonable to conclude that it is causing the
problem.

Michał Masłowski

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> None the less disabling the https-everywhere plugin solves the issue,
> enabling it brings the problem back. It's the only variable that is
> being changed. It seems reasonable to conclude that it is causing the
> problem.

Just disabling Google Services ruleset for HTTPEverywhere should solve
it.

Here it works with it enabled, it might be network-dependent. Will
vising one of the failing resource files (e.g. [0]) show an error message?

[0] https://khanexercises.appspot.com/stylesheets/shared-package/hashed-7c8f...

Daemonax
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I saw no error message, simply couldn't load it until I disabled https-everywhere and removed the "s" from the https which had been automatically inserted. It seems that https-everywhere just naively tries to use https absolutely everywhere, and this causes problems.

It also seems to make it impossible for me to reach Google from here in China.

Because Trisquel aims to be something that works right out of the box, I think that https-everywhere is going to cause too many annoyances.

Michał Masłowski

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> It seems that https-everywhere just naively
> tries to use https absolutely everywhere, and this causes problems.

It tries using it on specific sites where its contributors checked it.
It has settings for disabling its rulesets, to e.g. not use it for
Google Search.

> It also seems to make it impossible for me to reach Google from here
> in China.

It's a network problem.

> Because Trisquel aims to be something that works right out of the box,
> I think that https-everywhere is going to cause too many annoyances.

It works in other networks, so enabling it "right out of the box" is
useful for possibly many users. There are many possible network
problems, not all can be solved automatically, so they should be better
documented.

Daemonax
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Obviously it's a network problem. It is after all China, and the government make it hard to reach certain websites, or reach them in certain ways.

I still think it should not be included by default. People who want it and understand what it does can install it.

Daemonax
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Another annoyance, the GNU gnuzilla privacy add-on seems to cause problems with me switching to English google. That's annoying.

Adrian Malacoda

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I've had issues with that addon too. I think it's not ready for Icecat 4.0+.

Adrian Malacoda

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Does this IceCat use the Trisquel addon site or GNU's addon site?

akirashinigami

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It uses Trisquel's addon site.

aloniv

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I noticed GNOME-MPlayer appears in Add/Remove Applications despite not yet existing in 5.0.

aloniv

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Also, unarchiver is missing but the Slaine version works fine.

Horgeon
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I have tried to install flashvideoreplacer via the trisquel addons site, it installs but does nothing nor the icon appears on the right of the screen. It is listed as installed in Tools -> Addons. Same happens for CookieSafe. Haven't tried with others though.

R3vLibre
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Le mardi 19 juillet 2011 à 21:44 +0200, Rubén Rodríguez a écrit :
> The first development release for Trisquel GNU/Linux 5.0 STS, codename
> "Dagda", is now ready for testing. All the artwork comes from the 4.5
> release unmodified, so it qualifies as an alpha release.
[...]
> Please list bugs and suggestions here:
> http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/dagda-development and comment your changes
> at the development list or the #trisquel-dev freenode channel.
Hello,

I tried an installation with alpha release and I had some troubles, I
subscribed to the devel mailing-list and sent a mail there (friday
night), but I neither received a copy, neither do I see it in the
archives... So I am wondering if it has been transmitted....

Have a good day,

Christophe S.

--
>>>>---------------> mailto:name at domain
Once it's perfectly aimed, the flying arrow goes straight to its target.
Thus, don't worry when things go right.
There will be enough time to worry about if they go wrong.
Then, it's time to fire a new arrow towards another direction.
Don't sink. Adapt yourself ! The archer has to shoot accurately and
quickly.
[Words of Erenthar, the bowman ranger] <---------------<<<<

SirGrant

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I don't see your email. How did you send it? You send the email to name at domain right? Did you register because the list will only accept emails from registered users. You can register here (http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-devel). That is odd though that you didn't get a reply. Usually if you aren't on the list and you send it an email you will get a response that your message is being held in the approval queue.

R3vLibre
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Le dimanche 21 août 2011 à 19:48 +0200, name at domain a
écrit :
> I don't see your email. How did you send it? You send the email to
> name at domain right? Did you register because the list
> will only accept emails from registered users. You can register here
> (http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-devel).
Yes, it's that address. I copy/pasted it from the register confirmation.

> That is odd though that you didn't get a reply. Usually if you aren't on the list and
> you send it an email you will get a response that your message is being held
> in the approval queue.
No, I didn't receive any reply:
- no mail error
- no mailing-list mail returned
- no original mail dispatched by the mailing-list

I just tried to send it again...
I don't see it appear, but it might be too early.

Just in case, I insert it below in this list.

Christophe

--------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------
Subject: Error with Partition tool for 5.0 .iso image
From: "Christophe Schockaert" <name at domain>
Date: Sat, August 20, 2011 12:54 am
To: name at domain
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

I tried to install Trisquel from the "triskel_5.0-20110811_amd64.iso"
image at http://devel.trisquel.info/dagda/iso/.

I got an error at the partitioning step, there was a popup explaining
"ubi-partman" did not work, with a hint to look for syslog messages.

Which I did, and there are indeed messages where it seems to probe the
system on the partitions, then there is an error message from
"ubiquity" :

Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: Traceback (most recent call
last):
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: File
"/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/misc.py", line 195, in boot_device
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: for part in p.partitions():
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: File
"/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/parted_server.py", line 205, in partitions
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]:
self.open_dialog('PARTITIONS')
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: File
"/usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/parted_server.py", line 133, in open_dialog
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: self.outf = open(outfifo,
'r')
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file
or directory: '/var/lib/partman/outfifo'
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]:
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: debconffilter_done: ubi-partman
(current: ubi-partman)
Aug 19 21:37:40 trisquel ubiquity[2934]: dbfilter_handle_status:
('ubi-partman', 141)

I had previously created my partition scheme with Ubuntu 10.10.
I then went to install "Slaine" and I did not encounter any problem (it
was indeed very fast !), although I noticed it uses the same Ubuntu
10.10 partitioning tool that performed my hdd setup.

Do you want to investigate that further ?
Do you want me to send the full syslog somewhere ?
Or, if I can help trying something, I am ready to re-install a few times
if needed.

Regards,

Christophe S.
--
>>>>---------------> mailto:name at domain
Once it's perfectly aimed, the flying arrow goes straight to its target.
Thus, don't worry when things go right.
There will be enough time to worry about if they go wrong.
Then, it's time to fire a new arrow towards another direction.
Don't sink. Adapt yourself ! The archer has to shoot accurately and
quickly.
[Words of Erenthar, the bowman ranger] <---------------<<<<

tului

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Is the 6 September ISO a final version? I noticed it's not got the date in the file name.

Magic Banana

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This file is not the first one to bear the simpler name "trisquel_5.0_amd64.iso".

Khany

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Should be a daily image, takes several days so

Magic Banana

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It looks like Dagda is now ready! :-) Check out http://cdimage.trisquel.info/trisquel-images/

Khany

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Because today is...
Celebra con nos o SFD este 17 de setembro

But, where is triskel?

grvrulz
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I was going to write a full testing report of triskel but unfortunately I'm not getting enough time.

BinaryDigit
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I've just downloaded and installed Trisquel 5 on a Dell Dimension 1100 computer. The installer works fine but when the newly installed OS boots, the desktop icons, taskbar panel and menus appear partially, then disappear when clicked. The desktop background image is stable. However the system is completely unusable. The same issue also happens in Live System CD mode.

Previously all versions of Trisquel worked on this desktop computer. This computer has integrated graphics, with no separate graphics card.

I had to log this as a bug for Trisquel 4.5 because there's no Trisquel 5 in the bug system drop down.