Trisquel 8... where are you?

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t3g
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I was looking at the Purism laptops today and they come with PureOS as the operating system. It would have been nice to have Trisquel as an option, but version 8 is STILL nowhere to be found.

Anyone remember when Ruben would release Trisquel at a decent rate? The most recent version (7) is based off of an OS from April of 2014!

loldier
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gd_scania
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LXQt mini missing, but is Flidas now gone beta? No reasons to let LXQt mini missing since beta.
I have just quit Trisquel and have been afterwards staying in Parabola, this is my dissatisfaction to years ago Trisquel software. Unlikely Parabola ships cutting edged free software using rolling, Trisquel is needed too.

FindEssential
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Trisquel is not a rolling release distro, niether is the distro it is based on. If you want cutting edge use Parabola, it doesn't mean there is something wrong with Trisquel.

gd_scania
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Of course I WONT quit our Parabola anymore, but also I am backing to Trisquel tonight.

Tamriel
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Hi,

Is that an official download link? What is jenkins and what is the reason it's not just on the download page.
Sorry, I'm not so familiar with Trisquel. But I'm looking to use this as my main distro.

Magic Banana

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It is official... but alpha.

loldier
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It's the official development Alpha version endorsed by Quidam (Ruben).

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/first-development-alpha-iso-images-trisquel-80-flidas

gd_scania
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I have just come back to Trisquel these days thru this late alpha, but still unable to install GRUB EFI during live installer.

gd_scania
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Within GPT you are granted multiboot but ESP must be present, Parabola and Devuan are also recommended to us under this multiboot.

Magic Banana

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SuperTramp83

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heh, don't give him credit..

Ignacio.Agullo
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On 12/10/17 16:19, wrote:
> t3g, you are tiresome:

On the contrary, he's not active enough. We all have come to
passively accept as normal for Trisquel not to be updated. Don't you
have a calendar? This month makes the third anniversary of the last
Trisquel release. Count them: three years since the last release.

--
Ignacio Agulló · agullo [at] ati [dot] es

Heather

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He's been here even longer than I have; there are similar threads for Trisquel 7 and Trisquel 6, at least.

t3g
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Hey Magic,

If you look at the dates of some of the posts, I do have a reason to be worried. That first link was dated "Sun, 10/02/2016 - 13:10"

How am I wrong to STILL be worried after this is still in Alpha?

CalmStorm

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I was just going to add, why is he asking where are you... this isn't freakin scooby doo. ;) xD

gd_scania
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To t3g,
If you are impatient anymore you should want Flidas alpha first, but you must accept ‘‘that’’ fate, I am also backing to Trisquel thru Flidas alpha.
Regards,
HD Scania, an Eastern free software theorist and activist, want to be candidated to lead our GNU and FSF

0d54770d

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I think tg3 has a valid point with this, as well as all of his other posts on this topic. If we're lucky, Trisquel 8 will be released at the same time as Ubuntu 18.04, which makes its packages outdated by two years. I know that Trisquel 7 still gets security updates, etc., but I have not found it to be reliable (it constantly freezes, and only a hard reset will allow me to continue; also, some of the applications also crash/freeze, like deja-dup, which is unacceptable for a backup solution, and there is no way to get a newer version of it on Trisquel 7).

I also understand that Ruben is working a full-time job, and that he can't put as much time into Trisquel 8 as we would like, so I'm not blaming him; I think that an honest approach for him would be to either reallocate his resources to help out another libre OS, and retire Trisquel for good, or else find a way to get enough developers to help him put out releases in a reasonable amount of time. I would personally love to help with Trisquel 8, but I'm not a developer, so I don't believe any contributions that I could make would help it to be released substantially sooner.

I know that people on this forum seem to hate Purism (for reasons that are, to me, unclear; in reading both the forums here, as well as everything that Purism has put out that I can find, there was no outright deception on their part, but a few instances where they misjudged what they could do, and made promises that they later couldn't fulfill), but they have been making a lot of progress on the free software front, even having their own libre distribution that is not only up-to-date, it is also a rolling release, so there is much less concern that it would go the way of Trisquel 8.

FindEssential
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The issue with Purism is several fold. The first issue is that Purism conflates the terms Open Source with Free Software when they are clearly different. The second issue is that Purism upsells its products as if they are going to be free as in free software on day one or shortly there after when it is clear that this is simply not possible based on their hardware choices. The third issue is that the main person behind Purism has conducted himself in a pretty ugly manner here on this forum, which rightfully rubbed many people the wrong way. Purism continues to hitch its wagon to Trisquel when no relationship exists, nor is any Trisquel software used in their systems. When you buy Purism products you are not getting a free as in freedom product and it is unlikely it will ever be free.

Purism seems to make a pretty nice, albeit very over priced open source product. They are comparable to System76 or ZaReason with Coreboot added for some models. PureOS is Debian testing (optionally free software), Coreboot (not free software, but open source), and I would expect other products by them to be in the same ilk. The "work" Purism claims to have done releated to Intel ME and Coreboot is just that, a claim of other project's work without giving credit. Purism is a confidence man operation, but if you look into it at all it becomes clear most of their claims are either exaggerated or false.

A Distro is a tool and there are many options for which distro one can choose. The notion that Trisquel has to have the latest and greatest or totally not exist is very flawed. For people like myself who want an LTS system and will ride that system out until its support life ends Trisquel is a great free as in freedom option. That of course is the whole point of an LTS system in the first place. If you want latest and greatest you want a rolling release distro like Parabola.

ivanB1975
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Yep the ME deactivation comes from the project of Nicola Corna https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner

I used it as well in the latest version to deactivate the ME and remove almost all the partitions in the ME region in my laptop.

Regarding the Purism, I actually found citation in their blog of the sources. For example here https://puri.sm/posts/reverse-engineering-the-intel-management-engine-romp-module/
They cite the russian developer and as well the me_cleaner project.

I also noticed in the last pull I did from the coreboot git repo a huge amount of push from them in the coreboot project.

gd_scania
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I am unsure is there an ME in my hardware system, this system is modelled NP-350U2A-A03 and i dnt see the word Management Engine from my BIOS.

Magic Banana

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gd_scania
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Is the ThreadX OS hidden behind Intel ME also hidden behind your BIOS since mid 2006 in EVERY Intel-based hw systems?
My Trisquel, Hyperbola, LibertyBSD live CD are boot from boot menu, where other live CD like Parabola, Uruk, Devuan, gNewSenseare and every local systems are boot thru rEFInd, rEFInd is a libre boot manager and boot menu systems are all libre, will they be still suffered against ThreadX?

Magic Banana

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Is the ThreadX OS hidden behind Intel ME also hidden behind your BIOS since mid 2006 in EVERY Intel-based hw systems?

Starting with ME 11:
MINIX was chosen as the basis for the operating system (previously, ThreadX RTOS had been used). Now ME firmware includes a full-fledged operating system with processes, threads, memory manager, hardware bus driver, file system, and many other components.
http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html

MINIX. Tanenbaum's OS, under a pushover license. A perfect example of the relevance of copyleft...

calher
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OMG. If thaat copy of MINIX were GPLv3+... Eeee! \^o^/

SuperTramp83

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>there was no outright deception on their part, but a few instances where they misjudged what they could do, and made promises that they later couldn't fulfill

Oh my
this I find an interesting lulzy read on 'da promiseman'..

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed

Btw stay tuned folks, I talked with a high manager of Intel and I convinced him to free all their CPUs, even the past ones, it is backwards compatible..

ivanB1975
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The link you attached is 2015 and the information not completely true. They do ship with coreboot when the author of the article was pretty sure they would not do. I saw their hardware listed on the coreboot repo.
They deactivate the intel ME as I did. They cite the sources of the me_cleaner.

Personally I consider free (libre) a computer where the ME is deactivated and where coreboot is installed. That is enough for me.

This allows to push to free all the recent hardware.

I think that the FSF and libreboot will be pushed to accept the new hardware since soon most of the people will consider having all the ME code erased irrelevant if the ME is deactivated.

I am happy I didn't purchased a new(old) x200 laptop and I instead learnt how to partially free my modern one. Now I am studying coreboot and if I can port it to my laptop.

PS if more people deactivate the ME from modern hardware, Intel will be pushed as well to reconsider the fact that this piece of software is proprietary. If people they just rely on old hardware there is no future.

IrishUSA
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As I've said elsewhere, my beef with Purism is mostly their name. They're not purists. It's arguably legitimate to offer maximum freedom currently possible on current hardware, while striving to get to full freedom including the BIOS and bootloader. But to not merely imply but to claim via their name that they are purists and you're getting pure freedom from them is misleading marketing.

ThinkPenguin does similar respectable work - selling PCs with stock BIOS but with Trisquel as the OS, plus accessories that support full freedom. But the name and marketing doesn't pretend purism.

If Purism had a different name, something like FreedomQuest or FreedomJourney or FreedomPath that implied that their buyers don't get full freedom now but hopefully will later, that would be honest.

If anyone should call themselves "Purism", it would be companies like Minifree or Libiquity. Technoethical and Vikings sell some devices or PCs that lack FSF RYF certification so they wouldn't qualify. Not a slam on them - they do good work too.

ivanB1975
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I think that for non technical people the companies you mentioned do a good job. But we should also look forward to the next steps. I am wondering if the same companies invest to make research on how to free the modern hardware....

SuperTramp83

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>As I've said elsewhere, my beef with Purism is mostly their name.

It really not pure, and damn sure it ain't librem

Jodiendo
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SuperTramp83 said:

>As I've said elsewhere, my beef with Purism is mostly their name.

It really not pure, and damn sure it ain't librem

I'm a 100 percent pure, 24karat cold gold, full American blooded homo-sapiens, only liquid gold flows through my veins. Yes I'm not a follower of purism, even do I was not influence by the old French painting and architecture. But influence by Jackson pollock for his madness in painting,Vincent Desiderio for his Pantocrator, for the classics Norman Rockwell, and too finalize my most dearest influence the Ledger Paintings from the Great Cheyenne Nation.

What else do you need ? I'm 100 percent full blooded American..
I'm still Very free.

Heather

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Jodiendo said: I'm 100 percent full blooded American.

I said: I am so sorry. I am not the praying type, but my thoughts are with you in your time of trouble. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help ease your suffering.

Supertramp83 quoted IrishUSA who said: As I've said elsewhere, my beef with Purism is mostly their name.

I said: I've seen similar astroturfers in other parts of my life, so I guess it's kind of personal for me. Vendettas are not an efficient use of resources though, lol, so I'll leave the explaining to the more knowledgeable.

Teg Skywalker has been here longer than I have. I think it's a person, not a shell script, but the history of the username is publicly viewable and you're smart enough to come to your own conclusions if you don't have anything better to do with your time.

*****Edited because I didn't get enough sleep last night or read the posts carefully enough this morning.*****

Peace out.

/Heather of the Trisquel boards

IrishUSA
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I'm not clear on whom the above post targets with the label "astroturfer", but if it's me, I'm not one.

ivanB1975
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FindEssential
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I'm not really liking the vibe of that conversation. It seems to be asserting that a "minimized" ME plus Coreboot is the same or really close to Libreboot as if the ME is the only issue. This is clearly not true since Coreboot itself is not libre software and has its own blobs. Libreboot is a "freed" version of Coreboot that also addresses the ME issue on certain labtops.

Coreboot gives you more options in a blobbed environment over a stock environment in a similar way that Ubuntu does over Windows. This is good news, but it is well short of Libre.

ivanB1975
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I think that it should be advertised more the fact that intel ME can be removed also on recent hardware. Speaking of Blobs, the storage as well has its own firmware and so on. And this is still there even in the librebooted laptops. Many people install the most recent ssd on those laptop and I am wondering what is there...
I think that it is important that some people advocate the freedom as it should be, but I am also for the pragmatism to find a solution. In my point of view with the actual situation, blobs also in ssd etc... we could feel satisfied when part of the BIOS is free, the wifi is free, the OS is free. We cannot for the moment have the full, complete freedom. You cannot say that librebooted laptop are completely free, unless you are not using the internal storage :)

FindEssential
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It is a good thing ME can be deactivated on more recent hardware and that knowledge is out there. At the same time this is a free software forum. I am not going to promote non-free software here like Coreboot. Most people found out about Coreboot without me or this forum, the same will happen with ME. I am thankful to the Coreboot community because they make fully free options possible, though I don't feel comfortable using them on my primary system yet. I use Trisquel, with a free wifi, on a system supported by Libreboot. Freeing the BIOS is something I have my eye on.

Libreboot is a more complete solution than just going after the ME because it addresses that and more. I am not going to encourage people to get systems that only support ME deactivation when a more complete solution exists.

Of course a fully free system is not possible, everyone understands that. Everyone makes compromises, this is not new information.

ivanB1975
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This is a perfectly legitimate position. We are all hoping to have a complete free System. Will it ever happen? This is not a technical issue so maybe no it will not.
This is why we are all here :)

gd_scania
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When I was on Trisquel for 0.5 years I was disappointed to its aging packages, so have started using Parabola which is rolling, but fortunately our Trisquel forum is still active and I have occasionally found our Flidas alpha these days, which Trisquel is still active and alive. If possible I need to work for the Trisquel service packs every 0.5 years, with liberating every non-LTS Ubuntu releases and their every LTS service packs, finally to be our own service pack.

Heather

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gd_scania, have you been able to talk to Ruben or at least connect with the development team for Flidas yet? There is a lot of work to be done and you are obviously young, intelligent, and eager to help.

https://devel.trisquel.info/groups/trisquel

I look forward to enjoying the benefits of your hard work and enthusiasm and, hopefully, bringing my millenial adult children and octogenarian parents into a better place than Microsoft and Apple in the future.

ivanB1975
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I am using the 8 downloaded from the jenkis repo since a while. I didn't have any problem so far. I daily receive new updates. I am running it in a pretty modern hardware, a quad core i7 Haswell laptop and it is very fast and stable. Everything works even the sleep and so on. I truly don't understand why people complain constantly.
@t3g just download it and install it :)

Aristophanes
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Have you managed to deactivate the screen reader? If so, how?

ivanB1975
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?

Aristophanes
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The inability to deactivate the screen reader has been reported as a bug (see comment #2): https://trisquel.info/en/forum/i-finally-managed-install-trisquel-8-d-im-made-it-heres-how-i-did-it.

In my install of T8 in a virtual machine, I too cannot seem to turn the screen reader off. There does not appear to be such an option in the Assistive Technologies preference pane. Also, the screen reader program crashes upon loading.

ivanB1975
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Yep it is a bug and I it was present also in T7 https://trisquel.info/en/forum/fresh-install-trisquel-has-problem-orca-screen-reader-being-default-and-wont-close

I didn't suffer of the audio problems but I uninstalled it for precautions.

Do you know if a bug report exists about it?

Magic Banana

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After the live system boots, if you wait enough (30s?) without touching the keyboard/mouse, the screen reader starts (Trisquel assumes you are blind). Can you disable it from the "Seeing" tab of "Universal Access" in the "System Settings"?

ivanB1975
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Ah ok, but I completely uninstalled it.

calher
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I can't add the repo for the emoji picker. add-apt-repo not found.

(If Trisquel 8 could have an emoji input method by default, that would be great.)

Magic Banana

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It is 'add-apt-repository' and not 'add-apt-repo'.

calher
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It doesn't matter. I always tab-complete after typing commands, so I would have found that.

onpon4
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If the message you got is that "add-apt-repo" is not found, then you didn't type the proper command. I suggest you humor Magic Banana for a second and type the command correctly.