Trisquel forum policy LIES

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Macpie
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Joined: 07/07/2012

On the profile edit page, under the email address textbox there is notice that says
"... The e-mail address is not made public and will only be used if you wish to receive a new password or wish to receive certain news or notifications by e-mail."

Trisquel forum policy states that they do not 'disclosed' email addresses.
This is a LIE and was uncovered after Rick Hodgin qouted me while replying. In the qoute, the email address is clearly visible. So, email addresses are being disclosed to all users who receive email notifications of posts.

It is a good thing i did not use my gmail account details, else that would have been an actual privacy issue for me.

This forum seems to be having regular debates which sometimes turn agressive. So, revealing personal details to people holding grudges can lead to severe problems.

Please, look into this issue, so users can have peace of mind.
And please delete that 'lying' notice that email addresses are not made public, until it actually gets implemented.

SirGrant

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I am a translator!

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Joined: 07/27/2010

This is a known issue. I will mark it as critical and bring it up with the website maintainer.

Edit: development list email

teodorescup

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Joined: 01/04/2011

You know, you can change the email at https://trisquel.info/en/users/macpie ?
If you feel uncomfortable just use a different address, there are a number of free mail services around.

SirGrant

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I am a translator!

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Joined: 07/27/2010

We just had a discussion about how to handle this problem on IRC in the channel. We are still mulling over solutions. For now to expand on this you could always use a email forwarding setup (e.g. if you are a fsf associate member they provide email forwarding)

Rick Hodgin
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Joined: 05/13/2012

Seems very clearly to be an issue with the forum software. It should strip out every email address except the name at domain address for a return to post back to the list. Everything else should NOT be included.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

--- On Mon, 7/9/12, name at domain <name at domain> wrote:

> From: name at domain <name at domain>
> Subject: Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel forum policy LIES
> To: name at domain
> Date: Monday, July 9, 2012, 1:08 PM
> We just had a discussion about how to
> handle this problem on IRC in the channel.  We are
> still mulling over solutions.  For now to expand on
> this you could always use a email forwarding setup (e.g. if
> you are a fsf associate member they provide email
> forwarding)
>

SirGrant

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I am a translator!

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Joined: 07/27/2010

We were discussing options: 

(09:33:42 AM) quidam: but we need to decide what to do anyway

(09:33:47 AM) quidam: we can:

(09:34:06 AM) quidam: - hack mailman to make it behave as we want

(09:34:34 AM) quidam: - disconnect the lists and the forum, so the forum will be anonymous if you want that

(09:35:15 AM) quidam: - keep it as it is, and warn that the forum is not anonymous regarding to email 

Rick, if you don't mind asking how are you posting on the forums. Are you doing so through the website? Or are you doing it through the  mailing list?. Also specifically if you are using the website what are you using to quote users? Thanks. Because part of the problem is that the website forum is linked to the mailman mailing-list and so actually if you go to the mailing list everyone's email is public. It isn't simply just if you quote someone else.

Magic Banana

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Joined: 07/24/2010

Disregarding the work time, the best solution obviously is "hacking mailman to make it behave as we want". Considering the work time, the best solution probably is "keeping it as it is, and warn that the forum is not anonymous regarding to email". Disconnecting the lists in the forum does not look appealing because 1) it means a fragmentation of the helping community and 2) I believe that anybody, who wishes her e-mail address to remain undisclosed and has been warned about the issue, will not stop helping/seeking help; she will simply write from the Web interface.

lembas
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Joined: 05/13/2010

>In the qoute, the email address is clearly visible.
I remember when I discovered the same thing. I too was fairly angry.

>This forum seems to be having regular debates which sometimes turn agressive. So, revealing personal details to people holding grudges can lead to severe problems.
This I haven't noticed.

t3g
t3g
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Joined: 05/15/2011

Its because Ruben is stubborn and doesn't listen to anyone. More than a handful of people have offered to fix issues with this forum and improve upon it but he has given no response.

It doesn't really encourage people to willy-nilly donate money to him when he is only reachable on IRC and suggestions are ignored.

SirGrant

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I am a translator!

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Joined: 07/27/2010

Ruben has publicly stated why there are problems with communication and it is not because he is stubborn and doesn't listen to anyone. He states:

Going back to communication issues, one problem I now have is that the forums are way too big for me to monitor, so please those of you who are more involved use the devel list to discuss the important stuff, or link there any important discussion going on. I just stumbled upon this discussion because I'm working to fix the lists-forum sync system.

That would be for development communication, we do need to also improve our community communications, as in writing more news (not only for big events as we do now, but also a sort of project blog, and more participation in social networks). As mentioned, it is not that I prefer to code than to run the community, it is that code alone is already too much work (as the bug list testifies for). I don't like the term "community manager", but it would be nice to have some help in that field.

So, if you really wish to reach him and express your concerns you can:

  1. Contact him on IRC (instructions are here)
  2. Email him: name at domain
  3. Don't try to contact him via a method he publically admits he doesn't check often
  4. Understand that he actually has another job as CTO of activity central because working on Trisquel isn't paying enough currently so he can't focus all of his time on Trisquel.

and lastly:

  1. Don't worry, I don't think he is worried about getting a donation from you.  We know you haven't ever given a cent and I will be shocked the day you do.
  2. If you have any actual constructive ideas about how to fix the email problem/policy feel free to add them.  But ad hominim attacks on Ruben don't count as constructive ideas. 
Cyberhawk

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Joined: 07/27/2010

Since the forum is basically another form of representation of the mailing list, I think there is no need for stripping away email addresses in the forum or something like that. I was shocked when I saw my email in a quoted response the first time but soon found out the connection between the forum and mailing list and the shock went away.

The actual problem is, there is some talk about the email being only used "if you wish to receive a new password or wish to receive certain news or notifications by e-mail". This gives the user a false impression of what the email address is actually used for.

One solution I imagine would be quite easy:
1. Don't call the forum just forum. Call it the "mailing list forum", or "forum/mailing list" or something like that.
2. Put a notice to the profile of every user that the email is being used to participate in the mailing list, which is also accessible via the website forum.

This way no one thinks he is using a normal bulletin board forum and is aware of being in a mailing list.

BinaryDigit
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Joined: 11/30/2010

You can also remove yourself from the mailing list, and still post to the forum from the web. I made that change when the multiple spam posts problem started, so thats what I do now. I think the forum and mailing list shouldn't be linked by default, only if you opt-in at signup.

I also believe this issue is a lot broader than just this problem. I've always thought this forum, attached to the Trisquel web site, is too small and restrictive. Trisquel users (and maybe all free software OS users) need a new bigger, more scalable forum, for example, PhpBB or BBPress. That would solve a lot of problems in one.... the spam posts, the email addresses showing, the mailing list (users can choose the mail notification they want) etc ...

There's many possible ways to do this.... for example, all the FSF approved GNU/Linux distros could get together and Trisquel could be one forum within a larger FSF GNU/Linux forum board. Or there could be a separate Trisquel user forum linked to the main Trisquel website.

P.S. I would be happy to help out with such a forum, ie. admin, moderation, maybe support etc .....

starchild
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Joined: 09/14/2011

The great thing about the forum as it is now is that since it is made out of the same building blocks that powers the rest of the website (i.e. Drupal) it has a great potential for a level of integration and flexibility that an external forum system could never ever have. Tacking on some phpBB-type bloatware would solve nothing and lose us everything in terms of integration, flexibility and sheer power that a good content management framework provides.