Untransparent Bloatware

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Tichun
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Joined: 11/11/2015

Hello dear Community.

Trisquel is full of bloatware from the begging - removal of unused locales takes the BIGGEST chunk of installation time.
(not to mention unnecessary questions appearing on usual installation - You should be able to select whether it is a fast-forward or advanced process)

Then we move on to unused services that have been installed and are being loaded each boot-up for no reason (printers, bluetooth, scanners, wifi and a few more).
Why don't make advanced installation option where You choose ALL the details?

Now I have fresh installed Trisquel and want to clear it up without messing it up (last time I deleted bluetooth made things disappear from gnome menu).
I seek help with improving performance and clearance. Will You help me?

First thing that makes me tremble is the wait-up at boot-up for internet connection. This is really insane - it would never ever help anyone, anyhow.
Another step would be changing Ubuntu's log-in screen with a light-weight one.
Then the speed-up of boot-up and overall performance improvement including purging of unnecessary services.

Please, provide me with as much instructions and another steps as You might.

PS - That is a broad topic but it is very visible with a naked eye that open software and free software are not easily transparent for usual user and so are not used as they could be - so does their code and so does all of theirs documentation or lack of it, what about putting it in an useful guide (not in useless as now) or placing text files in system folders that describe things up for a noob?

PPS - I here for the first time and can't find text styling options ^ _^

SuperTramp83

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>Trisquel is full of bloatware from the **begging** - removal of unused locales takes the BIGGEST chunk of installation time.
(not to mention unnecessary questions appearing on usual installation - You should be able to select whether it is a fast-forward or advanced process)

Then we move on to unused services that have been installed and are being loaded each boot-up for no reason (printers, bluetooth, scanners, wifi and a few more).
Why don't make advanced installation option where You choose ALL the details?

begging? Don't beg.. netinstall!

>Now I have fresh installed Trisquel and want to clear it up without messing it up (last time I deleted bluetooth made things disappear from gnome menu).
I seek help with improving performance and clearance. Will You help me?

If you need to do something first read on the argument. The help I can give you is: before removing anything check the dependencies that are going to be removed.

>First thing that makes me tremble is the wait-up at boot-up for internet connection. This is really insane - it would never ever help anyone, anyhow.
Another step would be changing Ubuntu's log-in screen with a light-weight one.
Then the speed-up of boot-up and overall performance improvement including purging of unnecessary services.

say what? :)

>PS - That is a broad topic but it is very visible with a naked eye that open software and free software are not easily transparent for usual user and so are not used as they could be - so does their code and so does all of theirs documentation or lack of it, what about putting it in an useful guide (not in useless as now) or placing text files in system folders that describe things up for a noob?

Read, read, read, play, learn, enjoy freedom!

cheers

Larissa

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Isn´t the advanced one the netinstall?

Maybe try the Trisquel mini, that has less/smaller software preinstalled.

Gnome uses a few tools for totally different things, like Evolution is used for the clock...
The locals are needed for people who doesn´t speak English.

The documentations range from pretty good to terrible, so does it in every aspect of live. Code is in transparent for most "usual" user. That is because most tools have many functions/compatibilities. The software is as transparent as any other software out there (gui hides, not every tool tell everything it does). A useful guide about what tool does what and what to install or what guide do you want?

Tichun
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Joined: 11/11/2015

I do not understand you attitude, critical opinion is crucial for improvement and it seems like You took it as I'm your enemy.
Your answer had not a single thing I could learn from.

Netinstall is not an option for me as I've limited transfer and GNU tends to have issues if You play with it without huge amount of knowledge and that pushes me to reinstall it from time to time so I'm using dvd - hardly-ever there is one way of doing a thing.

Dependencies are the problem where they should not exist - like with orca screen reader connected to your OS forever.

"Another step would be changing Ubuntu's log-in screen with a light-weight one. [...]" - don't you know which login theme is used in Trisquel by default or didn't you encounter wait-up for internet connection establishment at boot-up? And yes - there are unnecessary services (for me they are below):
- bluetooth
- orca screen reader
- wifi driver
- scanners and printers
- any graphical things going on while boot-up (it should be as fast as possible)

"Read, read, read, play, learn, enjoy freedom!" - but read/play(makes me reinstall)/learn(I'm doing it and should do it as it is only an operating system - the stable standalone foundation) what? I'm not an developer I'm an user and things should be implemented or widely, easily provided with clearance.

As things aren't this way I seek help here.

SuperTramp83

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>like You took it as I'm your enemy

no

>Netinstall is not an option for me

Then you should use the normal installation until you build up experience to perform a netinstall one

> like with orca screen reader connected to your OS forever

not true. sudo apt remove --purge gnome-orca
TADAAA!! :)

>I'm not an developer I'm an user and things should be implemented or widely, easily provided with clearance.

right.. You are new with GNUx and you should learn how to do what you want to do. Most distros (even Debian which is well known for its minimalism) come with several services pre-installed). I tend to lock down my fresh installation. I learned how to do that by reading, reading and more reading and playing. Hence my suggestion to do the same.

Internet is full of info on Ubuntu. All that info applies to Trisquel as well being that Trisquel is nothing else but the LTS version of Ubuntu without blobs in the kernel and non-free software in the repository.

Jabjabs
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Thank you for this! I am a little tired of it constantly reading when I log in. Trying to logic with *asterisk* *asterisk* *asterisk* *asterisk* *asterisk* coming out of the speaker isn't always welcome. :P

Tichun
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Joined: 11/11/2015

@Larissa
English is my tertiary language and that doesn't mean I want all the languages in image I download.

I can't even find where to change what in gnome menu to change certain things other than those trivial made with single clicks - like I can't change only system time font size - it's not provided and I don't know where to find place to change it by coding and probably if I would find the code I would have to search through it for ages because it is probably not commented as 99% things.

Larissa

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Tirsquel Mini only has English and Spanish, so you could use that.

If that is not small enough try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootServices http://www.unixtutorial.org/2009/01/disable-service-startup-in-ubuntu/. If this isnt enough you might need to use parabola orbuild your own kernel.

btw. Orca is rather deep in the system...

onpon4
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Joined: 05/30/2012

I don't know why in particular you want to remove languages just because you aren't using them. All they do is take up a little extra space on your hard drive, and the amount isn't enough to cause problems with the amount of storage you typically will have.

Also, little services like the ones you're complaining about probably don't make a gigantic difference to start-up times or performance. You probably won't even notice, other than perhaps by a sort of placebo effect.

But if you really want to go the KISS route, the normal Trisquel live DVD is definitely not for you. Do a net-install. Or, you could try Dragora, an FSF-endorsed distro which is centered around KISS design.

Tichun
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Is this free software for You? For me definitely not.

I can not take advantage of free software over non-free because I'm not a programmer and there is little help provided.
I can not install software that is not free software which is regime, censorship and limitation of freedom (sandboxware? - you can not leave the sandbox provided by the devs. Please take Your time and compare this limitation with non-free code limitation - ha? which is ethically worse?..).
I can not delete software - so that is 100% in definition of bloatware.

By the way look at Trisquel forums naming policy and at Facebook naming policy - Trisquel is spying more in this area.
Why also installer asks for full name and nickname and You can't ignore it so you have to lie or to do it.

What will be next over here? Limitation of freedom of speech or what? My experience here describes how free software is a claptrap.

Magic Banana

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Like everyone told you:

  • Use the NetInstall if you want to choose one by one the packages installed on your system;
  • Taking the reverse route (removing packages that come with Trisquel) is possible;
  • Doing so to improve performances makes little sense: software you do not use (e.g., the Orca screen reader) to not eat resources up (but a little space on the root partition; less than 10 MB in the case of Orca).

Is this free software for You? For me definitely not.

It does not depend on you or me. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html defines "free software" and all the software in Trisquel GNU/Linux matches that definition.

I can not install software that is not free software which is regime, censorship and limitation of freedom

You can install non-free software on Trisquel. Nobody here will advise you to do so: we consider it would be bad for you. But absolutely nothing in Trisquel is designed to technically restrict the installation of non-free software.

I can not delete software - so that is 100% in definition of bloatware.

You can delete software and the package manager makes it easy. As SuperTramp83 warned you, removing a package means removing all packages that depend on it.

By the way look at Trisquel forums naming policy and at Facebook naming policy - Trisquel is spying more in this area.

What are you talking about? No term of use forces the use of a real name on Trisquel's site. For instance, Trisquel's leader goes by the name "quidam". And my parents did not name me "Magic Banana".

Trisquel' site (including the forum) can be used through Tor too.

Why also installer asks for full name and nickname and You can't ignore it so you have to lie or to do it.

You can enter whatever you want in those fields. In a multiuser system, you need to identify the user (to log in for instance).

What will be next over here? Limitation of freedom of speech or what?

Maybe your lock-up for paranoia.

onpon4
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> I can not take advantage of free software over non-free because I'm not a programmer and there is little help provided.

You should either have a friend help you, or hire someone. Maybe those aren't possibilities for you, but that wouldn't be because you're being mistreated, just because of unfortunate circumstances.

> I can not install software that is not free software which is regime, censorship and limitation of freedom

This is false. Trisquel doesn't prevent you from installing proprietary software. You can install whatever you want.

> I can not delete software - so that is 100% in definition of bloatware.

This is also false. I don't even know why you thin this is the case. And it doesn't pertain to whether Trisquel is libre or not, anyway.

Larissa

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It is free software since it gives you 4 importandt rights.
The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

Trisquel doesn´t restrict you to install everything you want. Just usethe deb packages, since it´s in the repositories. Or add the repositories.
I don´t think, that it is a trap, since you don´t loose anything.

Tichun
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I would like to believe in it but it is dishonest and not real. I would love it was for real free.

Larissa

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In what way is Trisquel dishonest?
It is real, you are on its website.
What do you wnat to do, that you can´t because you are actively restricted.
You can always try parabola, or if that isn´t enough freedom of choice you could try Gentoo(not guaranteed to be 100%free).

quantumgravity
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Joined: 04/22/2013

What you're saying makes _no sense_. Like here:
"I can not delete software - so that is 100% in definition of bloatware."

Nobody is preventing you from deleting anything on your harddrive. Why would you think so?

And I don't get your attitude anyway.
You consider yourself (if i got it right) technically not very skilled.
Well, trisquel is for those kind of people, and that's why it ships with a lot of preinstalled software.
Because a technically unskilled person does not know what packages he exactly needs and how to install them.
The unsignificant amount of additionally used disk space seems to bother you, however.
Well, then just remove the packages.

What you basically want is a distro that is costum made for your own needs.
As if the developers should magically get what you want and what you don't want.
But that's not happening.

If you don't want any "bloatware" (that's how you call it), then take a look at parabola. It's not noob friendly though.

"I can not take advantage of free software over non-free because I'm not a programmer and there is little help provided."

Just because you're not a journalist, still you benefit of the right of free press and free speech.
Think about that.
And besides, there is A LOT help offered.
Your first post here was not about asking for help.
It was just about bitchin around.

davidnotcoulthard
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Joined: 02/28/2014

"I can not delete software - so that is 100% in definition of bloatware" You can.....please say what you tried to and then cannot delete and one of us may be able to help with that.

I do not understand you attitude, critical opinion is crucial for improvement and it seems like You took it as I'm your enemy.He isn't taking it as if you;e his enemy though - peope do have different "styles" of stating things and let's not assume the attitude of a person simply by the words he uses on his first reply.

Why also installer asks for full name and nicknameLet's put it this way: Trisquel doesn't write an OS from the ground-up (it doesn;t say so on the front page, but all GNU/Linux distros actually do is....), but rather take the GNU OS, Linux, and many other software I won;t name that aren't quite less important and assembles them into a full OS. One of these assembled things (that wasn't written by Trisquel) are the mechanism where the users have 2 names: a "computer" name (nickname) used for logging in and another name that can be used by the computer to call the person that isn't really important in the operation of the computer (this is why the nickname can't be changed while the "full" namme can). Trisquel calls this the "Full" name which, looking at what I've just written, is a bit inaccurate.

"I can not install software that is not free software which is regime, censorship and limitation of freedom"Something's wrong - it's no your fault so please say what it is you can't install as we otherwise don't understand what you're saying since we are able to install things, meaning there may be a bit of a misundersanding between you and your system.

Is this free software for You? For me definitely not.Do note though that's it's a very specific kind of freedom that's being talked about here, in a similar way to how equality doesn't mean a lack of rich and poor.

I did not intend to offend you or be an enemy of yours or anything like that - if I became that it's accidental, unintentional, and (please believe me) I apologise from deep in my heart for that. Misunderstandings do unfortunately happen.

Faalentijn
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On 12/11 12:47, name at domain wrote:
>> Why also installer asks for full name and nickname
> Let's put it this way: Trisquel doesn't write an OS from the ground-up
> (it doesn't say so on the front page, but all GNU/Linux distros actually do this)
>, but rather took the GNU OS, Linux, and many other pieces of software I
> won't name that aren't quite less important and assembles them into a full OS.
> One of these things are the mechanism where the users have 2 names: a "computer"
> name (nickname) used for logging in and another name that can be used by the computer
> to call the person that isn't really important in the operation of the computer
> (this is why the nickname can't be changed while the "full" name can). Trisquel calls
> this the "Full" name which, looking at what I've just written, is a bit inaccurate.
Yes, the program is called Shadow and originates from the original
UNICes. It includes the entire mechanism for logging in and managing
users

The "full nam"e originates from the idea that unices were meant as work
stations (ala Sun) in offices and not as personal computers.
This is why the questions seem a bit odd these days For instance who
has the office, office phone, home phone and room number in their user
information these days?

ps. I also spellchecked your text a bit since I really liked the
content but mistakes kinda ruined it.
--
BOFH excuse #256:

You need to install an RTFM interface.

hack and hack
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Joined: 04/02/2015

>>> You should be able to select whether it is a fast-forward or advanced process.
-
Fair enough, if that exists in other distros.

>>> Why don't make advanced installation option where You choose ALL the details?
-
I think that would actually be a nice option, if doable.
Of course, that would mean at least one more question during the install process.

>>> Now I have fresh installed Trisquel and want to clear it up without messing it up (last time I deleted bluetooth made things disappear from gnome menu).
-
First, think about that: can you delete bluetooth in Windows or OSX? No. Rather cool, right?
Now, The best way is indeed the netinstall. But since you have a bad connection, maybe it's possible to make a minimal install
from the DVD with the text install. But it's not easy for a noob.
Also there is Trisquel mini, with less programs installed (but probably still some "bloat" like bluetooth).

>>> First thing that makes me tremble is the wait-up at boot-up for internet connection.
-
I don't experience that at all. Are you sure it's Trisquel-related?
If so, maybe try to install again. But that's last resort option.
First let's try to find why this happens (besides having a bad connection).

>>> Then the speed-up of boot-up and overall performance improvement including purging of unnecessary services.
-
What is unneccessary to you isn't for others. The boot speed can be improved, but I suppose your hardware limits that also.

>>> Another step would be changing Ubuntu's log-in screen with a light-weight one.
-
You mean lightDM? It's as light as it gets. But you can also remove it and log from the command line. If interested, I can expand on that.

>>> PS - That is a broad topic but it is very visible with a naked eye that open software and free software are not easily transparent for usual user and so are not used as they could be - so does their code and so does all of theirs documentation or lack of it, what about putting it in an useful guide (not in useless as now) or placing text files in system folders that describe things up for a noob?
-
First, everything is transparent, that's one of the points of free software.
If you can and are willing to read the source code, you're not much of a usual user anymore. Maybe some of it is badly commented or indented, I have no idea. But at least you have access to it.
About the documentation: if it's not enough, you have the Ubuntu forums (on which Trisquel is based) and the Arch wiki which is well done (though not exactly the same commands).
The Ubuntu docs should be good as well.
What doc have you a problem with? Maybe we can help.

>>> I here for the first time and can't find text styling options ^ _^
-
They're very limited. That's one of the things that should be improved on the forum IMO.
For now, you can get some text between tags.
<> (with a specific word between < and >) is an opening tag.
The closing tag is like this: put a forward slash before the word, like .
example:

< strong >text made bold with the "strong" tag< /strong >
Just dont put space between strong and those < > and

You can do the same with cite (italic or oblique, not sure),
code (that yellow area you see), and different sizes of titles from h1 (biggest) to h6 (smallest).

>>> I do not understand you attitude, critical opinion is crucial for improvement and it seems like You took it as I'm your enemy.
Your answer had not a single thing I could learn from.
-
Can't blame you for that, I've also mistaken his unusual tone for being agressive/condescending.
But he actually means well and gives interesting advice (even though it doesn't take much effort to not sound that way, but to each their own).

lembas
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Welcome new troll, our old trolls have gotten fat and lazy.

SuperTramp83

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yeah..

Jodiendo
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Lembas

How could you welcome new trolls? They are always hungry, malnourished and suffering starvation. Not even The World Food Program want to to feed them. The solution is to feed them, to our old trolls that have gotten fat and lazy.

JadedCtrl
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Joined: 08/11/2014

Hey, let's not jump the gun and call him a troll...

antiesnob
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Joined: 08/22/2013

complainer ¡= troll

The trisqueltrollsquad members seem to have a fixed idea on segregating between either of two kind of users: troll, not-a-troll.

Mr Tichum, my sweetie, Have I ever told ya how much I love you? I love you to the Moooonnnnnn!!!

You are requesting something that you didn't notice; it is OPTIMIZATION for YOUR system. You should look 'linux optimization' or 'linux boot optimization'.

Also, the removal of packages will only serve to have more disk space. I don't how much, but maybe we are talking about 300MB. That's nothing. There's stuff in RAM that could possibly be used but when it is not required it can be unload at anytime and it's automatic. And again, the impact on the processor will be near 0, 1, 3 %. That's nothing.

If you have an old computer it should run Trisquel mini, not Trisquel. First post your system specs...

On your networking issue I don't understand but it shouldn't be happening.

If you want a customize installation, then go to minimum install or netinstall. I guess your words complaining on this were that you have to pay for each MB of downloaded data? If it is that, look in the wiki; there's the offline updates installation. It might help you. Also, I don't if it is possible but maybe there's a way to put the onced downloaded files for the netinstall on a usb and tell the net install to install from there??

On the free stuff. Trisquel free is FLOSS as FSF claims it is.

Bloatware is a word I don't use because a software is bloatware depending on the user needs.

onpon4
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Joined: 05/30/2012

The negative reaction came from the OP's aggressive post about libre software being "claptrap" for nonsensical reasons, not because he he had complaints. Should he have been labeled as a troll? Maybe not. Should people have responded to his hostility with hostility against him? Probably not. But that's why it happened. It's not because of this imaginary group of users you say exists.

antiesnob
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Joined: 08/22/2013

I haven't mentioned anything related to hostility neither frostility.

The trisqueltrollsquad is not a group of users. I have never said such a thing.

moxalt
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> The trisqueltrollsquad is not a group of users. I have never said such a
> thing.

Yes you did! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnTmBjk-M0c

SuperTramp83

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moxalt
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moxalt
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SuperTramp83

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heehe :)
a short but good one (that episode made me lull so much) -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqoEUdty4gE

Tichun
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Such a nice community out there ^ _^

Maybe I was not so specific at all but this specific thing about establishment of internet connection is true:

" "First thing that makes me tremble is the wait-up at boot-up for internet connection."
-
I don't experience that at all. Are you sure it's Trisquel-related?
If so, maybe try to install again. But that's last resort option [..]"
----
Try to boot with no internet access - system will wait for connection to appear for 1 minute and what it wants is only to connect, it is not any configuration.
I've already found solution for this but can't understand why it's even here.

With 'useless' soft I don't worry about disk space it takes but about loading of it at boot - observe this with booting in text-mode and You'll see which services are loaded while booting, in real time.

"On the free stuff. Trisquel free is FLOSS as FSF claims it is."
But what do I do when I'm required to use non-free? In Trisquel it is hard to install anything non-free. Which seems to me like Trisquel decides for me. Debian (etc.) can also be free but allows to install non-free and that is unacceptable by FSF but they ignore that (or can do nothing about it while beeing free) in some govn'ts and under certain conditions one has to use non-free (or have consequences). I would not use it but I have to sometimes.

I agree those problems are trivial. So what?
Ain't free software trivial to most people?

onpon4
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> But what do I do when I'm required to use non-free? In Trisquel it is hard to install anything non-free.

I guess, but in the same way, it's "hard" to install anything on Windows. Somehow, despite this, Windows users install a lot of software on their computers.

onpon4
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> in some govn'ts and under certain conditions one has to use non-free (or have consequences)

I'm really curious as to what you mean here. I'm not aware of any cases where governments force people to use computers at all, much less force them to run particular proprietary programs on their computers.

jxself
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1. In Trisquel it is hard to install anything non-free.

2. Debian (etc.) can also be free but allows to install non-free

3. and that is unacceptable by FSF

I think you're conflating different issues here. I shall try to explain.

The word "allows" is probably the wrong word to use. Any free system will "allow" someone to install whatever they want. There is no way to stop it. Think on that for a minute and I hope you will understand: By virtue of being free, it means that that the person has the source code for everything and can modify it. And so: If a free system include some "feature" that would block the installation of non-free stuff, any person using that system could modify it to undo that and then proceed to install their non-free stuff. So, a free system, by definition, allows people to install whatever they want. So the issue shouldn't be framed in terms of what a system "allows" or not because any free system will "allow" anything okay?

On the point of being "hard", Trisquel, as you know, has no non-free repos for anything. Things are out there, but you're on your own to find them and set them up. Debian makes it easy, but Trisquel doesn't work to make it "hard" as you say. Just because Debian has worked to make it "easy" doesn't mean other distros are working to make it "hard." What you're actually experiencing is the normal difficulty level.

For your final point, the FSF's issue isn't what a system "allows." As I've explained, a free system "allows" anything by it's own nature of being free: No matter what anti-feature someone puts in a free program to stop something, the users of that program can always rip it out and then proceed to do what they want. So, rather the FSF's issue isn't what Debian "allowing" but with "recommending" non-free stuff to people. I think this section from Avoiding Ruinous Compromises describes their concerns pretty well: "The issue here is not whether people should be 'able' or 'allowed' to install nonfree software; a general-purpose system 'enables' and 'allows' users to do whatever they wish. The issue is whether we guide users towards nonfree software. What they do on their own is their responsibility; what we do for them, and what we direct them towards, is ours. We must not direct the users towards proprietary software as if it were a solution, because proprietary software is the problem."

[0] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.en.html

Magic Banana

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I have just tried to boot (Trisquel 7) with no Internet access. It took about 20s. Like always. And I have not altered the default configuration w.r.t. networking.

Trisquel makes it easy to install and use free software. It does not help the installation of non-free software but it does not purposely make it hard to install non-free software either.

Larissa

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Try to boot with no internet access - system will wait for connection to appear for 1 minute and what it wants is only to connect, it is not any configuration.
I've already found solution for this but can't understand why it's even here.

I did, this morning, it doesn´t wait. Maybe you have a very slow hardrive?

With 'useless' soft I don't worry about disk space it takes but about loading of it at boot - observe this with booting in text-mode and You'll see which services are loaded while booting, in real time.

1. Languages do not slow the boot up down.
2. Many programs do not start at bootup.
2,5.Try trisquel mini, gnome is heavy.
3. I posted ways to deactivate services.
If that is not small enough try https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootServices http://www.unixtutorial.org/2009/01/disable-service-startup-in-ubuntu/. If this isnt enough you might need to use parabola orbuild your own kernel.
4. If your harddrive is too slow get a ssd it boost startup. Even on an slow t60 core duo cpu.

But what do I do when I'm required to use non-free?

1. You ask them If there isn´t another option.
2. Try to use the libre software sometimes it still works for the work.
3. Use the deb Package or the tar archive if no package is aviable.

Trisquel doesn´t prevent, I "tested" that. Linux-Libre "prevents" to load properitäry firmware but normal linux kernel...

But what do I do when I'm required to use non-free?

No many pople use: Gimp, Krita, Dolpjhin, Gnome, Kde, Gcc, Blender...

SuperTramp83

I am a translator!

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Joined: 10/31/2014

The whole point of Trisquel is to make it trivially easy for everybody to use their computer in complete freedom. If you need non-free software for whatever reason you should choose one of the 1000 distros of GNU that ship non-free software in their repositories. Trisquel does not "decide for you". Trisquel is just following the libre philosophy, that is to give users a 100% libre distro. If you are not into that, you should use some other distro.